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The Absolute State of Play Anonymous 03/10/2022 (Thu) 18:27:55 No.2181
I just realized that PS5 came out like 2 years ago and they're still doing the PS4/PS5 cross-gen promotion, holy fuck. In the previous generations the promoted cross-gen would last for like 6-7 months, after which the new gen took over. But they're still doing it because there are no games. What a fucking mistake this 9th or whatever gen was. You're asking people to spend up to a 1K on a console from some scalper online, the games look barely different from your previous console - certainly to an average person, most of the games are ports and remasters from the previous gens anyway and then there are barely any new games at all. But gayming somehow still makes money.
I agree with you PS5 isn't appealing yet but the continuous cross gen releases are probably due do Covid related delays (if the devs have been working on a PS4 version through the development cycle there's little reason to cancel it since it's worth some extra sales). Even PS3 had some support up until EOL with Persona 5, Black Ops III (though multiplayer only), some Yakuza games, Metal Gear Solid V, etc.
>>2182 >are probably due do Covid related delays Lol no, sounds like a cope. 'rona didn't stop them making games at all, even 2020 saw a whole bunch of big releases. >if the devs have been working on a PS4 version through the development cycle there's little reason to cancel it since it's worth some extra sales). Even PS3 had some support up until EOL with Persona 5, Black Ops III (though multiplayer only), some Yakuza games, Metal Gear Solid V, etc. Anon read what I wrote <In the previous generations the promoted cross-gen would last for like 6-7 months, after which the new gen took over. But they're still doing it
>>2183 >sounds like a cope. 'rona didn't stop them making games at all Significant staff absences from stuff like self isolation would've meant there were less hands on deck and while working from home is an option the infrastructure for that within various companies wouldn't have been sufficiently prepared for something like a pandemic. >even 2020 saw a whole bunch of big releases That's true but those games were mostly finished (by AAA standards anyway) before shit hit the fan, titles that started development in 2020 will have been hit the most by Covid. >after which the new gen took over PS5 is the flagship system though, PS4 will probably be discontinued in 2023/2024 if PS3 is anything to go by. Sure it probably wasn't meant to last this long but given the circumstances it makes sense. Honestly these cross-gen releases are a good thing for gamers since you don't have to buy the new system to play the new releases (if you don't mind the performance and graphical sacrifices).
It's even more ironic seeing how PS5 is this "rare commodity" that normalfags are trying to get. What for?
>>2221 Status signaling but honestly at this point we are knee deep if not more into the crash we so often called back in the day, except this wasn't a sudden crash but a slow sinking via gaming as service rather than as physical item commodity. Games sold in the market as seasonal TV shows aired live with no way to replay them rather than as a DVDs with ways to enjoy them without external ways (internet) and with the packaging itself being a second market via trading or collectability.
>>2234 >we are knee deep if not more into the crash we so often called back in the day, except this wasn't a sudden crash but a slow sinking via gaming as service rather than as physical item commodity. That's not really a "crash" though, just evolution of the media, a degrading one but still. A crash indicates a stop after which things can start anew, which is the point of people hoping for a new vidya crash. But with this shit, slow sinking, it'll just go on like that for ages. And unlike '83, normalfags are all for it.
arguably games aren't even seen as games anymore. Due to increased graphical fidelity it's basically interactive movies or tv series, kinda like what they tried with FMVs only now it's actually in-engine.
>>2277 Hacks are using the medium as compensation for their failed movie director career.
I hope there's enough demand for quality games to necessitate an underground scene that pushes back against the garbage being pushed in the mainstream.
>>2279 Normalcattle is perfectly content with the mainstream. They think games have gotten better now compared to those old game. And indie scene is just a meme, retro regurgitation.
>>2278 Even failed movie directors end up making successful movies for TV, shorts, music videos, etc. This is a case of not medium trickling down but people simply outside their realm trying to subvert what something is, which is way worse in most ways. And they kind succeeded due to several tactics being used alongside but that's going into a discussion that might lure shitposters as it has been much discussed and even subverted in its own way. >>2279 Like >>2280 said, it hasn't, we've been in a hole for several years and very few have stepped in, there's been cases but they are far in between. The art house with money and ambition equivalent hasn't happened yet, just the art house to launder money and make shitty products part.
>>2280 I'm talking about providing an alternative for the minority of people who want something better. It seems like that's too much to ask though. Outside of the projects made to keep old hardware alive, most of the interesting projects I see seem to have dwindling audiences of people huddling around Discord groups.
>>2281 >Even failed movie directors end up making successful movies for TV, shorts, music videos, etc. Rarely to a point of exception. In those instances when a failed director has some talent and failed for a different reason. We're talking about hacks here, who see vidya as an opportunity to fulfill their hack hubris because there are literally no standards in vidya.
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>>2282 >I'm talking about providing an alternative for the minority of people who want something better. Who and why would do that? Like mentioned above the indie scene is a joke and the AAA one became so bloated it can only survive through massive blockbusters that have to sell 30 million copies to break even. There's none of that AA middle ground anymore and of course the very landscape of videogames, where they were made by nerds for nerds, has changed. Games are not perceived the same way we perceived them in the 90's or 00's, they became integrated into the cultural norm, the mainstream zeitgeist; completely hijacked by the corporations and MSM to propagate their interests. Nobody actually wants to make games anymore, that's why we see nothing but remakes. Same with film. It's all very sad.
>>2283 >Rarely to a point of exception I can name plenty of those "rare exceptions", hacks included because a hack in a medium can be a skilled artist in other, and hacks are not synonym with failed directors as plenty of hacks are successful in movies, maybe the word you are looking for is "pretenders". Both hacks and failed ones in movies are a danger in the video game industry that's for sure because the way they think stuff works is different in both mediums; movies are narratives, games are procedures or gameplay, it's a totally different thing hence their shitty antics of trying to redirect studio effort into meaningless stuff like narratives than tweak gameplay, the entire point of games. >an opportunity to fulfill their hack hubris because there are literally no standards in vidya Not even that, there is standards but the media likes to push these ego hacks because they are given orders or they like to pretend it's good for silly reasons. Skyrim is a shitty story yet widely accepted as good by plenty dummy fans and media writers while Soul Reaver is compelling but ignored nowadays aside from seasoned Gen 6 players because even back then it was popular but not a blockbusting name. >>2284 >Nobody actually wants to make games anymore Plenty want but they hit a wall very soon: Games are not an easy thing to do because it requires skill in something few want to get into without getting paid first which is coding. Many can write and draw how a game should work but almost none want to go the way of learning a language, a program and put the time doing it. >Same with film Somewhat wrong, plenty films are still being made and many are still good but one would be a giant sucker if one expects those from Jewllywood, it's like expecting a brand new idea backed by creative forces from a big AAA company that only shurns shit. Even big movies and the scenes that supported them started out as creative outsiders although there's some exceptions.
>>2285 >I can name plenty of those "rare exceptions" Do it, name 10. >there is standards There aren't. Film is considered a "serious" medium and despite all the shit that's getting released there's still a set preconception of what a good film is and what a good film can never be. Metrics that can easily define one. Awards, not mainstream ones like Pozcars, that accolade only good - or at least not objectively bad - films. These are basic standards thanks to which it's universally accepted and understood that Lawrence of Arabia is a good film and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Out of the Shadows is not. There's nothing like that for games. Absolute dogshit garbage is considered "greatest game of all time". If you look at the "best video games of all time" list it's full of 'Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Out of the Shadows', as it were. So in a medium with no standards these hacks can easily establish their authority because nobody has any idea what a good game actually is. You ran around and had fun? Watched a cutscene? It's just like a movie? Greatest game of all times, 10/10 IGN, enlisted in the hall of classics by which games are measured.
>>2285 >Plenty want but they hit a wall very soon That wasn't even an argument. If you're not in a position of making a game, i.e. a professional game developer, you're not even part of the conversation. The inability of some random dude to make a game because he obviously doesn't have means to is not what was discussed. It's the obvious creative impotence of real game studios - nobody wants to make games anymore. >plenty films are still being made Again, wasn't the argument.
>>2286 >Do it, name 10. Very well: Zbignew Rybczynsky, well-known experimental cinematographer and music video director, directed a bit in Europe but always got played down by production companies in the US despite his cult status that still endures to this day. Steven "E" de Souza, one of the best action screenwriters who was used as a sacrificial lamb once to salvage a project and didn't get an opportunity again, relegated to technical camera work and consultant. Kinka Usher, commercial and music video director, slapped after one attempt that wasn't a failure in the commercial sense. Joseph Kahn, music video director, slapped after one attempt that wasn't a failure in the commercial sense but sure was shitty. Antony Hoffman, commercial and documentary director, slapped after one big commercial failure but i've seen worse calamities be forgiven. Kerry Conran, commercial and special effects director, slapped after one attempt that wasn't a critique failure. Caleb Deschanel, cinematographer and music video director, known to be denied a big project despite good credits. Pitof, commercial and music video director focused on special effects, slapped after one attempt although it was indeed shitty. Waris Hussein, well regarded TV director relegated to be there. David Von Ancken, TV director and producer who had to autofinance his own shit despite good credits because he kept being denied. Most of these are well known in the commercial ad and SFX fields, and last two are TV recluses and we could carve out a couple more names if i went into that route (some TV people aren't really failures as they haven't got out of their comfort zone) but when they tried to enter the movie/Hollywood scene, which is what many of them clearly pointed out to reach (or at least not Hollywood but the big studio game) they got slapped hard, i can even name you Michel Gondry but he at least got second and third chances which weren't good in my opinion plus his first film wasn't a failed project at all, but you would think one of the greatest music video directors would've had a better run. These skilled technicians either failed because they did shit or because they didn't sell millions (or because studios hate them) but some other scrubs who did the same keep getting hired. In the case of Hoffman he sure is a hack in terms of his narratives but it just works in flashy documentaries and deadpan commercials, Kahn is a retard at times and def a hack when he tries to explain unexplained flashy shit going on as "narrative surprises" but it certainly works in the small formats of commercial work. A pretender is someone who isn't a skilled technician nor a competent director in the sense of directing and focusing efforts he should understand but still wants to do it anyways. >There aren't There is... at least in the folk, popular meaning of the word, by that we can also name it "seasoned consensus" if we want to name it more clearly in its context. Because after all who casts the standards? for example in film these were made by pen-holding critics who did a lot of shit and the successful ones were those whose shit stuck with both viewers and makers, in videogames we never had those writers or if we did they got blackballed into obscurity. Still it is certainly hard to explain in writing how the concepts of gameplay and fluidity are, maybe some lunatic might do a "interactive" critique/manifesto on his ideals which can better explain what "clunky" and what "fluid" is, i think it's way long overdue hell we could even do it here... if someone knows how to code, would sound ironic if we did it in Unreal >Metrics that can easily define one. Don't go so far away, even obscure awards get in the way of conflics of interest and politic shittery, the metric of what's good or bad also varies a lot hence the terms of "so bad it's good" which doesn't make sense to begin with or "oscar-bait" which means boring, self-adulating works who somehow tick many checks on what good should be but as works to be expected and seen on TV in your reserved hour? just no. I get what you mean i think but some works run in the thin fine line and they do somewhat often. >There's nothing like that for games Again, we can't see it in official form because said officials, the critics and journalists in charge of preserving the medium in written form for posterity or general knowledge, are retards, pretenders and cunning liars. You got to any video game store, scratch that they've stopped existing since a couple of years, let's imagine one anyways and remember how Dragon Age Inquisition, a well-regarded work by critics, is languishing as a bottom feeder inside the box of shame while "shitty" ignored shovelware like MLB The Show baseball game is often ran out of stock because people like its gameplay which has been constantly refined since a decade ago and features a story mode with a certain depth where you can even troll teammates with your avatar via simulated text messages. One will be remembered as good despite the public standard damning it to hell while the forgotten plain ignored reiterative work is still cast as a classic every 3 years they decide to add a significant upgrade. Let's put an older, shorter example: Advent Rising was shilled hell and back while Def Jam Fight For NY was belittled for its retarded premise and visuals, yet nowadays one is largely forgotten while the other is an absolute cult classic that still commands brand new game prices despite not being rare at all but the attachment rate is very high. See what i mean? the critical and official standard is non-existent i agree but the folk/seasoned standard is clearly there, some people are dumb but they know what is entertainment for the most part. Midnight Club 3 DUB and Remix are almost never on stock and were mostly ignored by critics back then, NFS Underground was critically well received and still considered a good game but any used game buyer will jump on the former because they've heard and seen it has more cars, it's faster, more fluid and has better maps. >these hacks can easily establish their authority You have the insidious and the jewish in the creator ranks, the retarded and the perfidious in the "intellectual" ranks and the cattle and "not my problem" guys in the lower consumer ranks then it's obvious one will get jewed and jewed again because nobody is batting an eye other than the lower ranks who have the mental capacities to be in the middle ranks (read: seasoned, mentally above average consumers) while in film the lower ranks are still silly dumb but the middle rank is much more hardened because many actual intellectuals are there to shit on people. But still these are not heard, their influence comes either from massive works that go directly at the guts of the higher ranks (essays done by jaded as fuck writers and distributed in art schools, economic analysis on how much you fucked up in "x" film by savvy critique who isn't afraid to die because of mental illness/alcoholism) but who usually fly over the heads of the consumer rank. The New Hollywood Wave of the '70s didn't appear out of public request, it came because in film schools they got the idea of making films less often but with much more of prep time than releasing a decent one every year. The Japan Wave of the mid-century didn't happen because the americans gave money to distract people (they didn't) but because the filmmakers were mad as fuck and put extra effort into shitting on authority by releasing subversive works (be good person/obedient but destroy malicious higher powers) that were also compelling as good means better distribution for them. To put it in a TL;DR format: Standards makers in film are at the opposite side of the creators, standards makers in videogames are non-existent or in the same side as the creators, but folk/popular standards exist and can be observed via behavior and product buying by the consumer analysis. >>2287 >If you're not in a position of making a game, i.e. a professional game developer, you're not even part of the conversation I hope you mean me as in the imaginary videogame pretender, in that case i agree with you but sometimes it doesn't happen this way, they grab someone with great networking (aka drink buddy who is good with words) or someone who was very good at something specific but not necessarily technical and then thrown into the rodeo to see what happens, the egregious cases being said people doing bad or mediocre and then tried and tried again while achieving shitty and shittier products when unsupervised, key word there. And what constitutes "professional" here? some indiefags at the old gamemaking threads had more credentials than some industry fellas who are deemed "pro" for having directed projects. >inability of some random dude to make a game because he obviously doesn't have means to is not what was discussed >It's the obvious creative impotence of real game studios Sorry if i got you wrong then but i still don't think that's the case, it's studios playing retarded and networking people into leading projects made not by creativity but by using spreadsheets of what people usually consume, puppets or industry people who know the machinations of bureaucracy rather than actually knowing how to make a game. The Ori side-scrollling games are pretty competent yet the studio wasn't given the budget or opportunity to do something bigger, despite the first one being successful they had to do the second one with their own pocket money before they greenlit distribution, that's plain jewishness, and they weren't even given the chance after the second one sold well (i ignore if it is good). Another example is a now decade-old game Mark of the Ninja, a classic in the stealth genre yet they never grew out of that despite being visually and mechanically better than many stealth games of its era despite using a fraction of the budget. >nobody wants to make games anymore Nobody gritted enough to do them wants to i suppose, the idea guys still don't want to learn how to code, the engineers of old who were creative enough decided to play other fields and the people trained to make games are either unequipped mentally (jaded/washed as fuck due to liberal college or just intellectually stunted to be something outside an assets slave) and the industry leaders went for the moneyball rather than the creative endeavors of old. lol i think i just got your point, do you mean somebody/anybody/nobody as in studios? i'm thinking of them as in the technical guys in charge of gameplay schematics and the codemonkeys. In that case of studio head managers then yeah, i wrote extra words here, you are right, they play moneyball when making games rather than as creators of content. In terms of the small guys who build the products, some get in small teams and achieve glimpses of what they want to do but they never get the opportunity to go big with something. Funny how everyone shills for From Software nowadays when back in the day they were a B-grade japanese studio, some claim they have gotten better but i still see the same quality as when they released stuff like Armored Core or Tenchu, it's just that there's very few left still trying to do stuff. The fat guy still wins the race if the other runners only have one leg. >Again, wasn't the argument. Sorry, i sidetracked with the rating of studios equivalence: AAA/Hollywood, AA or the Medium Studios who competed using ambition or creativeness/Art houses with money or Hollywood experimenting with leftover assets, A or medium-small studios experimenting with captivating an easy sector of the market/Art House without money, while Indie hipster faggotry is almost the same in both mediums. Right now in video games it's either that AAA, the rare A and the faggotry, and still i don't know how it wasn't the argument when the post tried to use it as analogue with the demand of rehashes and the public eating shit, they do but some creators still refuse to go that way entirely.
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>>2404 the absolute state
I hate modern games so fucking much. I had to suffer through 2 modern games in succession, they're all fucking same - same design, same UI, same mechanics, same looks, same everything. All piss-easy and dumbed down for normalniggers.
>>2465 it will onl get worse
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>>2528 I remember rhyming a better version tbh
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>>2522 What a fucking disaster. I can't believe this pic is relevant again. Time really is a flat circle :^)
>>2532 This time it's like this for everyone tho.
>>2532 I've seen first pic so many times but I have still no idea on its backstory. What is that supposed to mean? Nintendo, Microsoft and Multiplat dunking on Sony?
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What are they gonna do for PS6/10th gen(jfc)? They gotta do a next gen thing even though games literally don't look any better anymore. There's this thing where a model just stops looking "better" at certain point no matter how many details you add to it, I forgot the term. We're basically there.
>>2659 prolly online-only games, digital everything nightmare stuff
>>2659 >I forgot the term Diminishing returns perhaps? I don't think we're at 'peak graphics' just yet, that Matrix tech demo was very impressive and even it had some shortcomings. CGI for movies still takes a very long time and lots of computing power to render, so in that sense there's a moving target for real-time graphics to continue chasing. How long we'll be able to keep up with Moore's Law though (something which has become increasingly difficult in the CPU space) is anyone's guess.
>>2661 >I don't think we're at 'peak graphics' just yet I think we are. There are still ways to tweak performance and and that jazz but ultimately games not gonna look much better because they can already do photorealism. For the last 20 years each new gen offered a tangible obvious improvement, it's hard for me to imagine buying a new console with a concept of "it will run the exact same games but faster". Maybe that will cause normalcattle to lose interest in the medium, it will start regressing and we'll get back to good interesting looking games again.
>>2664 >they can already do photorealism Even the most realistic looking games still have blemishes and flaws (character models in particular), there's less progress to be made vs 20 years ago but there's still some way to go before we have real-time 100% indistinguishable from reality photo realism for all aspects of rendering. >it's hard for me to imagine buying a new console with a concept of "it will run the exact same games but faster" There's definitely been a plateau since 8th gen, the jump in power and possibilities isn't as substantial as it used to be. >Maybe that will cause normalcattle to lose interest in the medium I don't know, as long as AAA movie-like games keep coming out that doesn't seem likely, the industry would have to hard pivot to 6th gen and below game design for that to happen.
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>>2665 >Even the most realistic looking games still have blemishes and flaws (character models in particular Characters - sure; and we don't have completely photorealistic humans even in the state-of-the-art $200 million CGI, mainly due to the uncanny valley. But the backgrounds are pretty much there already even in game form thanks to the advance of ray tracing and general improvements in lighting. Think about it, in game form you mostly see a character's back and backgrounds - if that is photorealistic enough the game comes of as photorealistic and there's no objective way to demonstrate how you improved on that, ultimately if the eye perceives it as real there's no place to go after that. >There's definitely been a plateau since 8th gen, the jump in power and possibilities isn't as substantial as it used to be. It was inevitable of course, at some point polygons stop being apparent and texture quality can only go as high as the eye can see. This is the future we dreamed about but it sure is boring now that we got here, the excitement of having your brain exploded by a new piece of technology so clearly superior to the previous one is gone forever. >as long as AAA movie-like games keep coming out that doesn't seem likely Well that's for now, when this whole "wew, games r like movies now!" phase is still fresh in normalcattle's brains. When we get to PS6 they might grow tired of it who am I kidding.
>>2666 >we don't have completely photorealistic humans even in the state-of-the-art $200 million CGI True that but it's still well in advance of what games are capable of rendering at the moment. >thanks to the advance of ray tracing This is the next big advancement, it's early days but this will make quite the difference as hardware advances and it becomes cheaper (on system resources) to use. >the game comes of as photorealistic and there's no objective way to demonstrate how you improved on that Well that's the AAA goal but as long as you can point out an imperfection (however subtle) in the image then there's room for improvment. >who am I kidding AAA Games are like your Hollywood blockbusters now, your typical gamer buys the game, has their fun and forgets about it soon after. The idea of playing the starring role in a big Summer flick has a strong appeal to that more casual audience, a more involving kind of escapism than passive mediums.
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>>2672 > it's still well in advance of what games are capable of rendering at the moment Not necessarily, I mean on technicality sure - there's way more polygons, bamp maps and whatnot. But the goal isn't to match that, the goal is to reach photorealism, which evidently can be reached way lower than hollywood CGI tier. It's all about the lighting and the aforementioned ray tracing does the job now. It of course varies from game to game but there are games that under certain conditions already showcase CGI-level visuals. Sometimes more impressive than the actual movie CGI from like 7 years ago. >it's early days but this will make quite the difference as hardware advances Hardware but not so much the visuals, you can't really make realism even more realistic. Normalfags are all about those base simplistic things like "new graphics - good, must buy". Convincing them to spend $600 on a new console that shows games pretty much exactly how they looked on the previous one (to an untrained eye for sure) gonna get trickier from now on. >your typical gamer buys the game, has their fun and forgets about it soon after Well that was always like that. >The idea of playing the starring role in a big Summer flick has a strong appeal to that more casual audience, a more involving kind of escapism than passive mediums. For that to be continuously appealing the game itself has to be good and entertaining, and we can cross that out - all those movie wannabe games are too preoccupied with visuals to bother with that pesky gameplay. Just walking through a cutscene gonna get boring even to the most brainless cattle eventually.

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