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Anonymous 11/24/2021 (Wed) 21:45:27 No.1544
Man, when did this shift from Nintendo to Soytendo happened? Nintendo used to make powerhouse hardware and tried to dominate the industry like a Chad.
Did this really warrant a thread for you, mister? >when did this shift happened? Nintendo scalper victims, who were always there, got old and with them their common denominator sensibilities which included these contemporary american "health" trends and fashion. I would say around, 2013-14? the Wii U days cemented the new status with the whole defending inferior hardware thing, most of the exemplary people being made fun of all grew up in the Wii days, even the older ones, so the whole wagglan and compensating lacking hardware and software with (weak & vague) philosophical ramblings is harcoded into them.
>>1545 >Did this really warrant a thread for you, mister? Yes. >Nintendo scalper victims That's from the nugaymer perspective. I'm more interested from the Nintendo perspective itself, why the degraded so and continue to propagate this approach.
>>1546 >I'm more interested from the Nintendo perspective itself It's the same thing but with some of those elements becoming executives and social workers in the company rather than part of the commercial focus group, between them you have the product makers (Treehouse) and the policy makers (Nintendo of America) which might or might not be another class of individual, probably progressive tech industry vets from the mid-00's/Internet 2.0 era. Do not forget Nintendo's headquarters are very close to Seattle after all, Redmond is less than a half an hour away and forms part of the Soypolis Trinity along with San Fagcisco and some arguably say Austin.
>>1547 Isn't Nintendo still primarily a jap company, unlike Soyny, and NOA is just a localizator
The success of the Wii reinforced the idea for Nintendo that you don't need to have the best hardware to make lots of money. The problem is that they ignored the impact this had on the quality of 3rd party multiplats, only a couple of years into the generation we were seeing 'Wii versions' of games that were built on older tech and played very differently from the intended AAA experience. The Wii U closed the gap for another 2 years but it wasn't even as powerful as the 360 or PS3 so ports were usually worse and companies gave up on releasing their big hits on the platform. We're seeing this again on Switch with seriously compromised ports and even fucking streaming only games. If this was Sony or Microsoft then their gaming divisions might be cut back or even closed. Nintendo however has managed to cultivate a Disney-like following for their brand and franchises. Let's not forget that they sold mini emulator boxes that play a limited selection of games from only 1 system (officially anyway) and ran out of stock almost immediately. As long as Nintendo has Mario, Zelda, Metroid and so on they are basically invulnerable, even if their hardware offerings are way behind the competition. That's my interpretation anyway.
>>1549 >Nintendo however has managed to cultivate a Disney-like following for their brand and franchises. Sounds about right. Nintendo has always relied more on 1st party games, and so had them exclusively on every console they released for 20 years, unlike let's say Sony who lost and gained franchises depending on the devs' deposition. So by the time modernity rolled in and clapping for things people 'membered and recognized became the new industry norm, Nintendo became the biggest memberberry bandwagon for soy normalfags who recognized all those casual franchises they can be instantly good at.
why was wii even popular? because of the motion controls? i wasn't interested even back then
>>1551 The pick up and play aspect of motion controls allowed Nintendo to tap into the early casual games market (which the DS had also done to some extent). Most Wii systems were exclusively used to play Wii Sports (and maybe Mario Kart Wii or Just Dance). Before mobile gaming exploded Nintendo had managed to engage that same audience of non gamers.
>>1552 >The pick up and play aspect of motion controls How is it any different from pick up and play aspect of regular controls tho?
>>1553 Button count and requirement to operate directional inputs and understand how that translates to the virtual world. Wii Sports for instance requires you to use at most 2 buttons (which are right at your fingertips in vertical orientation). Consider how much difficulty some people have operating a computer mouse, using the D-Pad or analog stick in a time sensitive situation is even harder for them. The translation between swinging a Wiimote and hitting a tennis ball is much more immediate and intuitive for a non gamer/tech person than pressing A to do the same. The Wii was very popular amongst the elderly and I think this effort to make the real world action mostly mirror the virtual was a big part of this. Mobile games work in the same way, instead of moving a cursor to click on a button now you just press it like you would a real button.
>>1554 This is some high tier geriatrics issues. Can't imagine them buying so many wiis to make it a success. I doubt the average casual normalfag Joe would lose his mind over the concept of a d-pad and would need a wii thing to comprehend vido games.
>>1555 The Wii was popular across the board (with maybe the exception of core gamers who were more likely to buy 360 or PS3). It sold 100+ million units and in the early days there wasn't enough stock to meet the demand. The very low barrier to entry meant that anyone could understand how to play casual Wii games in a sentence or 2. What seems simple and obvious to us with years and decades of time investment in games isn't to people who didn't grow up with that level of exposure. I've done enough tech support to see how difficult non tech people of any age find anything more complex than the buttons on their microwave or coffee machine (which they probably had difficulty with too initially). The novelty factor can't be underestimated of course, even though now motion controls are often seen as gimmicky that wasn't so much the case in 2006. This was even before the iPhone so in many ways the simplistic capabilities of the pre-Motion Plus Wiimote seemed very futuristic to your average person. Speaking of the iPhone, consider how smartphones enabled normal people to join the internet in droves, by designing for the least able user they made it possible for anyone to go online without having to understand really much of anything beyond tapping and typing (much to the detriment of the internet of course).
>>1555 Not that other anon, but it's not that the elderly were frantically buying up Wiis; rather it's that families -- who otherwise would've had no interest in ever playing games consoles -- were buying Wiis for the sheer novelty of being able to play motion-controlled bowling and tennis on their TV at home. One of the biggest appeals was that everyone in the family (including grandma) could join in the fun by picking up a stick and swinging it around in a similar fashion to how you would the real-life versions of the virtual activities; it's something that all demographics can understand and participate in. Compare that to sitting down with a traditional gamepad and trying to figure out how rocking a pair of miniature joysticks back and forth is supposed to relate to a character's movements on-screen or control an invisible floating camera, getting your head around what functions a set of abstract buttons are supposed to perform (often having to use other buttons as modifiers, adding an extra layer of abstraction), and then pressing them all in the right orders at the right times in an ambidextrous fashion; you'll see it's not so intuitive. It's easy for anyone here of course (at least eventually; even I remember struggling to adapt to dual analog stick controls when they first came out), but many non-gamers and gamers of earlier generations can't get the hang of it, and have no interest in taking the time to learn it. I've seen this first hand with my dad who was once the local badass at Galaxian and other arcade games of that era in his youth, was playing computer games on a daily basis during the late 80s and 90s (mainly platformers, adventure games, racing games, etc.), and yet he can't play any games that use WASD + mouse or Playstation/Xbox-style controllers to save his life. Not to mention that most games of the past 20 years give him motion sickness anyway. Ultimately, if the Wii didn't have its motion controls gimmick or sell itself as a "fun for all the family" machine, it probably would have sat somewhere between the GameCube and Wii U in terms of sales (the sales for Wii games bundled with the hardware versus regular Wii games that had to be bought from a store indicate as much).
>>1556 >>1557 I dunno, I had my grandma play Mortal Kombat 3 with me on my Genesis because I didn't have any friends :'^( and she was doing just fine.
>>1556 >It sold 100+ million units and in the early days there wasn't enough stock to meet the demand. Still couldn't outsell PS2.
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>>1557 Well put anon. >>1558 That's nice anon, my mom likes old adventure games. The social aspect is an important part of drawing in casual audiences. There's also the difference between joining in with someone else versus buying a console for yourself + immediate family and friends like people did with the Wii. >>1559 Indeed, the PS2 had a killer feature that the Wii left on the cutting room floor, picrel.
>>1560 You could play gamecube games on earlier revisions
>>1561 Look to the left of the Wii disc. In fact every revision of the Wii (including Wii U) has native Gamecube support. On models that can't load from disc, the homebrew app Nintendont allows loading from SD and USB.
>>1562 Nobody cared about dvds by the wii time. Nobody cared about dvds by most of PS2 time even. dvds were only relevant during the first year of PS2.
>>1563 I'm not sure that's true, PS2 was able to undercut other DVD players at the time while also being able to play all the hot new games. Bluray didn't kill off DVD in the same way that DVD killed VHS after all.
>>1564 DVD players became affordable really fast. By 2004 nobody was even mentioning PS2's DVD player. It's really only those first 2 years where it was playing into the sales, but assblasted competition was coping that "it's all dem DVDs!" I honestly doubt the DVD thing accounts for even 1 million out of 155 million sold. Despite what people want you to believe DVDs didn't kill VHS that fast, I had a PS2 and was still using VHS up until I got my PC in 2005 because I already had all those films on tape and rebuying them on DVDs seemed like a waste of resources. After all, what people actually didn't have were HD tvs, so the difference between a good quality VHS and a DVD was dubious. No doubt some people were buying PS2s as cheap DVD players, but to an extent of dozens and dozens of millions? Nah. Especially when you look and see that PS2 had some of the most legendary games on the market within 1 year of its existence and was cheap and reliable, following the runaway success of PS1, it all becomes clear. But yeah, maybe Dreamcast and Gamecube suffered to some extent for not using DVDs but certainly nobody cared about that by the time Wii came out.
>>1565 DVD definitely wasn't the only aspect driving sales that's true, the PS2 has a great library. >It's really only those first 2 years where it was playing into the sales Interestingly according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2_sales that extra 50 or so million sales (compared to Wii) was made in just over 2 years after the US and EU release, 55 seems to have been reached a few months later. >I honestly doubt the DVD thing accounts for even 1 million out of 155 million sold If I were to guess it was maybe like a Venn diagram in those early years. Where you had people who wanted DVD (and might play the occasional game or have kids) and people who were mostly interested in the games (but also watched movies). >DVDs didn't kill VHS that fast, I had a PS2 and was still using VHS up until I got my PC in 2005 I still have some old tapes actually, lol. I didn't mean to imply it was an immediate shift, more that DVD was very popular in a way that the next physical format Bluray didn't achieve as successfully. >the difference between a good quality VHS and a DVD was dubious DVD was also sold on longevity (lol) and compactness, but visual quality is often a hard sell for sure.
>>1565 You are obliviously passing that in third world countries a PS2 was still cheaper than a fancy DVD player until the same years you mention, around 2004. >It's really only those first 2 years PS2 was launched in 2000. >I had a PS2 and was still using VHS In those said third world countries (as in non-aligned aka non-compliant to commercial laws) DVD was very quick to gain ground due to ease of piracy, sure Blockbuster still got its VHS rents and sales in the mid-00's but the rest of the world was in the disc bonanza pirating anything and ditching tapes faster than the legal countries who sought after pirates way harder than Hong Kong, Eastern Europe or Latin America. Still your point about the Wii years having DVD as a non-factor is true, by 2006-07 people bought slim PS2s, OG Xbox or supermarket DVDs that had tons of shitty speakers hardplugged into the drive. >>1557 Well said, many forget Wii was a massive hit with the elderly, especially in old folk's houses where they could do basic exercise while playing Wii bowling or Sin & Punishment: Star Successor.
>>1567 >You are obliviously passing that in third world countries a PS2 was still cheaper than a fancy DVD player In third world countries PS2 was an elitist toy when it launched that only a small percent of the population could afford. To what extent those contributed to the first year sales? Not much. >PS2 was launched in 2000. I know when it was launched, I was there. >but the rest of the world was in the disc bonanza pirating anything and ditching tapes faster than the legal countries I just explained how that wasn't actually the case at all. That's the image you see in magazines where all attention was shifted to DVDs. In reality most families used VHS far into the 00s. The "super based pirating pirates" was the niche for relatively tech savvy people. >In those said third world countries DVD was very quick to gain ground due to ease of piracy By quickly you mean years behind the west.
Why is this obvious cuckchan bait thread still up?
>>1570 Because it's proof that no matter how much of a faggot OP is, if the users are good quality, good discussion will come out of it. And it did to be fair.
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>>1567 >>1568 In an attempt to gauge the popularity of DVD on PS2 I looked into the DVD remote accessory but couldn't find any sales figures unfortunately. I should clarify that I don't think that DVD would have had a big impact on Wii sales, rather that the PS2 had the right value added feature at the right time to have some benefit in sales. The Wii didn't really have an equivalent until the Youtube Channel in 2012 (although the Internet Channel could be used before then of course) and the Netflix Channel in 2010 (fun fact: the PS2 got Netflix in Brazil).
fuck wii, delet wii
On the topic of Nintendo's shift to their modern business model and divergence from the rest of the industry I found this article about the Gamecube years: https://web.archive.org/web/20130819010845/http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2013/08/15/the-struggles-of-marketing-the-gamecube A very interesting choice quote: >"The "hardcore" Nintendo audience was equally cast aside. "Why bother? They're going to buy anything we put out anyway."
>>1657 >They would be told what was cool and like it” Works with normalfags. Also kek pic related.
>>1555 If only you knew just how bad things have gotten over the years.
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>>1660 elaborate
>>1671 Digital media has become mainstream, but it's complexity and controls have reached teletubbies levels. I have always been a hack with technology, not even scrip kiddy level, I can follow guids and do some troubelshooting, but if I show my younger co-workers who are in their late teens or early twenties the things I do with computers and in games, they look at me like some alien space wizard operating lost technology from atlantis. You know the video of the game-journo failing at the tutorial level of Cuphead? There are millions of people in this world that will proudly proclaim that they are gamers and yet they are on the same skill level as these game-journos. And they can do it because products are created for them.
>>1707 Same, I'm a complete harwware noob and about all I can do is replace a cooler fan, or thermopaste, or plug in an extra drive and RAM. Something that kids used to do in the 90s and 00s. But now that is enough to consider me "the tech guy" and redirect all the PC issues to me. Normalfags are too used to the perpetually self-working machines out of the box and are at a complete loss when they need any inquiry. We're literally moving to the Asimian future where humans live in these vast megalopolises build centuries ago and falling apart because nobody knows how the fuck they're actually functioning.
It's probably more profitable in the long run
>>1828 I wonder if Soyny will follow suit.
>>1830 remember how both sony and microsoft copied the motion controls embarrassingly
>>2048 >embarrassingly Sony did very well other than having actual games to use said technology, nowadays their sensor is sought after because as i was told it can work on PC. Xbox had the best technology but dumbed it down hard to market it cheap and for kids, it didn't work and also they sacrificed many studio assets to churn shit from it. They didn't realize Nintendo users buy anything if it has the brand, including cardboard, had the Kinect been from Nintendo it would've been a major hit if it had games. Wagglan in general is controversial to begin with.
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>>2049 It's not a complex technology anon, making it work is not an achievement. The blatant copying of Wii was embarrassing and hilarious tho. It wasn't organic at all, just one day they were like oh yeah, we heard you like wagglin', well here's our wagglin' stick. Also Sony's stick might have worked the best but its design was so atrocious it was probably one of the major reasons why it flopped, people were embarrassed to buy that shit especially when you consider that Sony was going for a "mature multimedia look" otherwise.
>>2050 I meant this sensor that is sought after, yeah the black wagglan dongle was not subtle at all and like you said most dudes who were into GoW or Uncharted laughed at the prospect of wagglin' in the PStriple, Chad Warden was not far away from the common teeanger user of back then. >It's not a complex technology anon You never know how they are going to screw it up, nowadays that seems the norm.
>>2051 >I meant this sensor that is sought after Oh, I see. That makes sense actually, do people remember EyeToy? Technically Sony was by the the first on the waggling market so it's no wonder they had this technology developed to a reasonable extent.
>>2050 What were they thinking with that bulb? Makes the Move look like a big glowing dildo. Wii MotionPlus came out the previous year and pretty much closed the technology gap using only a dongle that plugs into the Nunchuck connector (they even integrated it in later models of the Wiimote).
>>2052 EyeToy is super simple (which meant it actually worked pretty well), all it detects is changes in the image and where they happened, this is why you can cheat by filling the screen and jumping like a retard.
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>>2053 >What were they thinking with that bulb? Makes the Move look like a big glowing dildo I guess they already started to turn into Soyny. Ironically you'd expect Nintendo's controller to look like that while you'd think Sony's would look like pic related. Instead it was the other way around.
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>>2054 >EyeToy is super simple Yeah but it also came out in 2003. Years before Wii. I'm sure the knowledge in its development was helpful for their wagglin' dildo program. Also the design was superb.
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>>2053 >Makes the Move look like a big glowing dildo Worse, it makes it look like a "massager" or wand as the nips call it. Hey if you paired this with Catherine you might've had something cooking back in 2011 fucking 11 years ago already? >>2057 It is good looking and goes well with both PS2 consoles, same with the web adapter.
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>>2059 >fucking 11 years ago already?
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>>1560 >Indeed, the PS2 had a killer feature that the Wii left on the cutting room floor, picrel. The worst part is that Nintendo had to hide DVD channel because they forgot to put a DVD logo on the console.
>>2065 What do you mean?
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>>2066 Early Wiis shipped with DVD drives, however, one of the rules imposed by the DVD Consortium is that every device that can play DVDs must also have the DVD logo. Wii didn't have the logo, so Nintendo had to disable the DVD channel software. Also, see https://tcrf.net/Wii#Disc_Channel_Banner_Files The DVD channel can be restored via homebrew system software (the "Letterbomb" exploit et at. see, https://wiibrew.org/wiki/LetterBomb)
>>2067 So those early shipped Wiis play DVDs? They must be mega rare and expensive nowadays.
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