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Star Wars and other Lucasfilm IPs. Also fuck Disney

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Cosmic and Living Force Stormtrooper 10/11/2019 (Fri) 00:35:53 No.101
So why did George introduce the Living and Cosmic Force in the prequels? It was vaguely alluded to here and there, but there never seemed to be a payoff, nor a connection to the OT (unless I'm retarded?).
What are they anyway?
I thought the living force was the living "animus" or "mana" properties found in all living things (ie- midichlorians hence why Anakin is the avatar of the living force made flesh) whereas the cosmic force was the macro dictating "fate". Please correct me if I am wrong as this is 2nd hand knowledge from a lorefag friend.
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He introduced midichlorians to illustrate the advanced enlightened society of the past, dominated by science and knowledge, in contrast to the dark ages rooted in mysticism of the original trilogy. It makes sense on paper and is a good trope to work with, the problem is that the prequels take place what, 18 years before the OT? The very idea that all this great super-industrial society and all its knowledge would just collapse into the rugged world of the original trilogy under any circumstances in just 20 years is ridiculous. The two concept of the force - mystical one one and academical one - taking place so close to one another, clash dramatically. The fact that there's no pay off, except purely retroactive, doesn't help either. What he should have done instead is set the prequels thousands years into the past, maybe even making them anthological, depicting the first seeds and the slow subsequent decline of that advanced society over several generations, Asimov style, leading into the world we know from the OT. You can still have Jedi swinging the lightsabers. That way, the revelation that the force was once, to an ancient civilization, a scientific subject would be just as intriguing as the mystical force we were introduced to, rather than basically substituting the OT force with midichlorians and whoever has more of them wins by default.
But then we wouldn't have all the embarrassing pottery linking literally every single event of the prequels to the original trilogy as if a college student wrote it. Lucas is the idea guy, he shouldn't write scripts.
>He introduced midichlorians to illustrate the advanced enlightened society of the past, dominated by science and knowledge
I got the opposite interpretation from the prequels. The old Order's over-scientific and empiricist approach to the Force I saw as indicative of how detached the Jedi had become, both from the greater Galaxy and the Living Force itself.
Makes sense, hence the inability of a fucking council full of Masters to recognize the presence of a Sith lord even when he's in the room with them.
I mean I know Sheev was fucking with & psyopsing them, but that still shouldn't have been sufficient to cover him for over a decade.
then you're wrong
>you're wrong
Then elaborate, cunt.
Lucas is a fucking idiot. Living/Cosmic Force/Medichlorians aren't real canon. Change me mind. Protip: you can't and never will.
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there is only one Force and that Force is Lucas
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>focus your senses
>reach out with your mind
>Feel the flow from their wallet to yours
>Yes, good, my apprentice
did you miss this entire post you dumb faggot >>105
The entire point of the prequels is that the Jedi are too weak and self absorbed to even spot a Sith under their noses. While the Sith grew in power facing more and more powerful Jedi controlled social environments the Jedi got fat and lazy. They started to lose their connection to the force and could no longer predict things the way they had before.
>>458 Not that anon, but in spite of what Lucas may have intended, I also got the impression the Jedi Order were corrupt on a fundamental level. I'm assuming you went off of what Lucas himself envisioned, while the other anon was thinking of things through his own or the viewer's interpretation. That being said, I don't think midichlorians or a cosmic force should have been introduced at all, it detracts from the mystique and the feeling vastness from the force.
>>964 *felling of vastness
>>105 In the PT the counting of midichlorians does nothing to detract from the mysticism of the force. There is an implication made that higher midichlorians counts show people who are more attuned to the force when Obi-wan says "Not even Master Yoda has a midichlorian count that high", but that is the only line in the PT that comes close to supporting such a conclusion. The force is always portrayed in the PT as a mystical and not academic or scientific thing. The PT portrays the force as an immaterial principle that is not and cannot be understood via scientific means. That this principle works through or by or with midichlorians specifically instead of a more generic living beings does not change anything. If you disagree, consider that Yoda had such a high midichlorian count that he was used as a reference for Anakin. Even so, the PT states on several occasions that the Jedi's ability "to use the force has diminished" and that the future is clouded by the dark side and so on. They don't say anything about midichlorians because midichlorians aren't the force and have no necessary determination on one's ability with the force, or anything to do with what the force is. Even Obi-wan was able to tie Anakin in force capability during the duel on Mustafar, at least for one push, despite Anakin being significantly more powerful than Obi-wan with the force, and having a no doubt significantly higher midichlorian count. I think this shows well enough that the PT is not advocating or implying the force is an object of scientific study on midichlorians, and not determined by a count of midichlorians.
>>101 Rise of skywalker unironically explains this
>>101 I think that quantifying it makes it easier for people to grasp the power discrepancy between Force sensitive individuals, which therefore eliminates any doubt of Anakin not being the Chosen One. It's kind of like how Leia is revealed to be Luke's sister, which is something I feel is just inserted so they could break up the love triangle without the audience having to ask too many questions.
>>1089 the problem is with presentation. if there was a part with obi going >wait how many midichlorians? they are bacteries attracted to force users. maybe anakin just has some sickness that attracts them... or something better written, people wouldnt have a problem with that
>>1142 Qui-Gonn already believed Anakin was the chosen one, Obi-wan is shown to quickly defer to Qui-Gonns judgement in the very first scenes of the movie. Obi-wan would be out of character to disagree with Qui-Gonn on this. Anakin was strong in the force, to justify being trained they invented a high midichlorian count line rather than the more generic strong in the force, and then they never mentioned it again because it adds nothing more to the story or universe.
>>105 The way Han Solo disregarded the force, it was obviously something obscure and forgotten for at least a century. Like spiritism from the early 1900s. Had Lucas been a smart man, he would have shown the 'mystics' and 'modernist' factions in the jedi order as signs of its imminent fall. Modern jedi no longer believed in all encompassing magic with a will of its own, but simply energy to be drilled into and controlled industrially.
>>1089 Empire's Yoda wouldn't let that midichlorian explanation fly. He would have protested that the force is something you feel and can't be measured, that is everything and nothing like some old kung fu master.
>>1273 Yes, and Empire Yoda had watched everyone he knew and loved be systematically murdered by the machinations of an ancient and well documented enemy he couldn't even see despite all his lauded wisdom and power. Everything he thought he knew and trusted turned out to be nothing more and hubris. Spending 20 years as a hermit on some god forsaken swamp rock in the middle of fucking no where probably gave him a bit of time to reexamine literally everything he thought he knew about the force.
>>1273 After watching your entire order get fucked over because of their empirical beliefs, you too would go back to the traditional spiritual ways. Also Qui Gon Jinn didn't deny midis but he still believed them to just be tools of the Force which he saw as some kind of deity or guiding spirit.
>>1273 Given their experience with Anakin, it's really not surprising. Anakin fell to the dark side out of a fear of losing Padme and the jedi were unable to help Anakin overcome his emotional issues throughout his time as a Jedi. When Anakin seeks advice when he fears Padme dying, Yoda tells him to let go of the fear and accept her becoming part of the force, while Sheev tells him he won't have to. Yoda may have been correct, but Anakin had been deficient in moral instruction and could not accept Yoda's advice. This is a failure of teaching a long time running. So when they train Luke, why wouldn't they correct what the real problem was? Luke was clearly not trained as a particularly great warrior, but he was trained as a person of great wisdom. So when he is confronted with the same fear that drove Anakin to the dark side, the loss of his friends on the moon of endor and in the rebel fleet, he is able to avoid losing himself to the fear. When Anakin cut of Windu's arm he was unable to see any path out aside from serving the emperor. When Luke cut off Vader's arm, he had the moral character to be able to draw back into the light and affirm himself as a Jedi, something Anakin might have been able to do if he was trained more not in combat or technical matters like midichlorian counting, but in wisdom. tl;dr Luke needed moral instruction to be able to confront Vader and the emperor. midichlorian counting would be a waste of everyone's limited time.
>>1277 >>1280 >>1289 Too bad the prequel's Yoda is still the same character, and not a science focus power player.
>>1143 I think Kenobi deferred to Qui-Gon not out of agreement with his philosophy, but out of respect for his title. Obi-Wan in the prequels is very Orthodox, and on several occasions raises slight protests against his master's actions. He only took Anakin as an apprentice because it was his last wish, not because he wanted too. Of course this is the great tragedy of the Phantom Menace, where Qui-Gon if he were alive would have been the unorthodox master to the unorthodox student (Anakin would have probably been more comfortable coming to him with his problems than Obi-Wan), but due to circumstance got stuck with the wrong master and thus had his moral issues grow into something Palpatine could exploit.
>>1271 I don't like separating Jedi into factions. They only work as one semi-mythic entity that we see but a glimpse of.
>>105 And you shouldn't make movies.
>>3845 and you should go back to reddit
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>>3846 Since when is being pro-Prequels reddit-tier? Just because a lot of post-millennials finally had their balls drop and decided to post "le ebing maymays xd" does not mean shit; a lot of those faggots believe the Prequels were objectively bad. Your kike faggot Stoklasa and his gay entourage are pure ledditor pseuds, along with your typical /tv/ pedophile. Lastly, you should know that you people generally act in the same way and are easily identifiable, 4gagger. "Reddit" has (generally speaking) specific behavior that is rather apparent when it surfaces. It is not just a way of insulting another anon or can be used to describe anything that you don't like; also, be wary of blindly following perceived mass opinion, on the board or elsewhere. Here, a little bit on Lucas' "bad script-writing/directing": https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2002/may/16/artsfeatures.starwars https://web.archive.org/web/20201101120439/https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2002/may/16/artsfeatures.starwars Where did all the Lucasfags go? Is /sw/ dead?
>>3850 >i love nigger cock in my mouth and ass plz gib me upboats fellow redditors
>>3850 >Where did all the Lucasfags go? Playing Jedi academy in sleepy/v/
>>1289 To be fair Anakin gave the little frog not enough info, just that it was someone close to him, not a pregnant wife. Even Yoda would figure that there is a realm of difference of "someone close" and "pregnant wife". For all Yoda know Anakin was now a celibate jedi knight without any living relative, nobody else to latch to. Anakin lied to the jedi with all his marriage being a secret. Obi Wan only had the suspicion that he was banging Padme, not married to her.

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