/retro/ - Y2K

1990s and 2000s Nostalgia

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/Y2KFG/ - Y2K Furry General Fellow Time Traveler 04/21/2021 (Wed) 23:31:56 No.1088
A thread for artwork and content of anthropomorphic animals characters (or "furries") from the late 1990s and early 2000s. Sources are encouraged. Resources: https://yerf.metafur.org/ http://us.vclart.net/vcl/ https://confurence.com/
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OP image and images are by Raymond "Alphaleo" Yap, 2003-2004.
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Angel "Arphalia" Ravenell, 2000-2001.
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Alan Mackey, 1996-1998.
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Tracy Butler, 1998-1999.
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Bill McEvoy (13:11), 2001.
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Emily Smith, 1998-1999.
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Rose "bara-chan" Besch, 2000-2002.
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Jenn "PacRat" Rodriguez, 2001-2004.
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Some photographs from Confurence 10, held in April of 1999 in San Diego, California, USA.
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Some photographs from Anthrocon 2001, held in July of 2001 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA.
>virgin: 2000s furry >chad: Art 1992 also, have the AROS mascot by Eric Schwartz
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>>1102 Who could forget Alice the Rat? (Posting in case anyone reading this thread actually hasn't heard of him. It's worth documenting.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRIyw-pJkUk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNCTvXpXtMw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS-nFC29yy8 I love Schwartz's 1990s stuff as well. I own all 4 volumes of The American Journal of Anthropomorphics, a lot of his early-to-mid 1990s stuff is in there. If you haven't already, you should check out his Amiga animations. (Many more than what I've linked.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho9TbIbtIUY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Gozwu7MxXQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6gKYZCP99E
Terrie Smith, 1996-2002 (Including a button featuring her artwork, from 1998.) Her artwork was also featured in each volume of The American Journal of Anthropomorphics. Her original website is still up, too. Nice and nostalgic. http://www.terriesmith.com/
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Not from the Y2K era, but Joseph D. Ny is an artist whose work I've wished there was more of since I discovered him. His early work, 1990s, was entirely digital and featured charming USSR-esque aesthetics which aren't present in his later work. The only publicity he's ever had was a few of his early 1990s pieces being featured in Volume 3 of The American Journal of Anthropomorphics, published in March 1995. Wikifur says his work(s) has been published through Atlantic Press before, but there's no source or evidence for that claim. Aside from his Fur Affinity account which he created in 2007 and hasn't used for nine years as of now, he has no internet presence and his work is nowhere else to be found. The attached images I photographed straight out of my copy of Volume 3 with my phone. I haven't seen these pieces anywhere else on the internet. They deserve to be documented, at least somewhere.
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Christopher "Radd" Snowdon, 2001. (1/2)
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Christopher "Radd" Snowdon, 2002-2004. (2/2)
Damn. I remember when I used to bash them just because it was trendy. Then I learned that a lot of artists I liked in the 00s were actually furries and mellowed out a bit about them. Of course, with the way some of them act on Twitter nowadays, it's hard not to fall back on old habits, but the old art is still nice to look at. Kind of wish I would have taken part in it back then.
>>1109 I don't understand the phenomenon, but furfaggotry doesn't bother me at all when there's no pushiness or whiny victim posturing involved. I used to be on good terms well over a decade ago with a guy who did DeviantArt anthro art of himself, and I didn't get it but also didn't really think anything of it.
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Jonathon Reese (Pseudo Manitou), 2001.
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Kacey Maltzman, 2003-2004.
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Tim "Ravenwolf" Johnson, 2000-2003.
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James Bender, 1996.
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Gus Kosmopoulos (MoRBiD), 2000-2001.
>>1127 When did furfaggotry go wrong? Even after the whole burned furs stuff it seemed relatively normal till the early 2010's
>>1143 Same thing with every other niche group: politics happened. Or rather, progressivism exploded, and you started seeing sociopaths leveraging it to worm their way into influential positions, crying bigotry at anyone who spoke out against them. It works especially well on manipulable nerds who don't want to criticize anyone lest they look like an evil ostracizer (look up the Geek Social Fallacies). I think furries got hit harder than most groups because they have a strong presence in the Bay Area where progressivism is most prevalent. Just like with computer-related hobbies.
>>1088 Redpill me on furry “MUCK”s. Were they very popular back then or still pretty niche?
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>>1143 >Even after the whole burned furs stuff it seemed relatively normal till the early 2010's I don't know about that; I only saw it from the early 2000s on and it was still pretty fucking weird then. I don't mean like the infamous Vanity Fair article weird, I mean the kind of thing we still recoil at today (a.k.a. business as usual). It's just that all of that weirdness at the time was largely documented (if at all) on various forums with obscenely long URLs that were never properly indexed and have now disappeared from the record forever, same as much of the other fandom stuff that existed at that time. Also, much of it was oral knowledge that was passed around via instant messengers, IRC, and other unlogged chats. These days Twitter serves much of that purpose, and with strong indexing and a much-expanded Internet the weirdness is easier to see than ever before. That said, the heavy progressive/tranny/etc rot that's been seeping in is relatively new - but I imagine that for the furries, it'd just have seemed like business as usual. As I recall it, the rule used to be "live and let live, but keep anything that tends to squick people hidden and give full warning before they see it". Trigger warnings, censorship, and aggressive campaigning seem like natural extensions of that, but they're not - the whole freedom of squick was the freedom to say "yeah, that grosses me out" and not have anyone get on your case about it. But you were also expected to not seek out stuff that squicked you, and since there was a culture of strongly segregating content that was mostly no problem. (I say mostly because fuck me, furries could and did generate drama in industrial quantities. The same extremely online syndromes we see today were also alive and well then.) But of course this kind of culture is vulnerable to being rotted away and the same rules of behaviour that kept it all functioning were ideal for takeover using the pattern of moderation hold and weaponising tolerance that we're so familiar with today. That said, I've no idea what's been happening since... 2006 or so? >>1179 Depends what you mean by "popular". They weren't known outside the fandom, but were a cornerstone inside; everyone knew about FurryMUCK and Tapestries MUCK (known as "Taps"). FurryMUCK was for general roleplay, Taps was for ERP. Taps in particular was very influential. The WiXXX ("whois XXX") flagging system that let you tag the fetishes in detail you were open to playing and the cInfo ("character info") system that allowed quick orientation with the name you'd just spotted across the Plaza were pretty fully-featured and were the prototypes for systems like those you see today on Flist (I think it's called Flist?). I gather that Taps got a lot of attention in 2005 when it was highlighted in a Wired article about cybersex https://www.wired.com/2005/01/cybersex-seek-and-ye-shall-find/ with no mention that it was furry. They temporarily locked down character creation as a bunch of relative-normalfags tried to sign up for Telnet ERP. I'm very hazy on this, but I think at its peak Tapestries averaged thousands of simultaneous players. Even today there are around 500-700 connected players at any given time. Still, it's definitely /retro/. Most of the wizards (think sysadmins/mods) have now retired and I can't imagine coding up a Taps character in the Character Hammer in-MUCK program is the rite of passage for new furries that it once was.
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>>1190 Also, let me introduce you to another artifact of Y2Kfurry, the Censorship Pandas. The ones in >>1190 were the later versions, and pics related from this post were the original 2001 versions. These come from Amber William's site http://www.mabsland.com/Adoption.html and were pitched as "adoptables" (small character images you were invited to save and re-host on your own website) that also acted as a website rating system. At the time, attempts to filter the World Wide Web were in their infancy and were mostly supported by those creating adult content as a way to voluntarily keep young impressionable eyes from things they shouldn't see. So there was a time when you'd see a lot of the "Web-<rating>" tags in site headers and so on. The idea was probably a combination of common decency and the very pragmatic idea that assisting attempts to voluntarily filter the Web for kids would keep the real heavy-hitting censors and legislators away. Anyway, the original Censorship Pandas page appeared around 2001. The original panda Pai Gon (PG for short) was originally "Panda faerie who hits people on the message board with her wand when they go past the PG rating of the board" and eventually developed into the sisters you see here. Looking at the page, you can see some delicious /retro/ tidbits aside from the content itself: >Title is "Adop [sic] a Censor! You know you wanna!" >HTML includes <meta name="generator" content="Created Using Yahoo! PageBuilder 2.61.88"> >broken spacer images show that it was originally hosted on Geocities The page text speaks to its time (version from first snapshot at https://web.archive.org/web/20011011175314/http://www.mabsland.com/Adoption.html : >As I browsed through the net, I realized that there were a lot of those "adopt a dragon" or "adopt a fuzzy" things were people would draw a picture then have other people 'adopt' it to put it on their sites. Kinda a cutesy way of getting visitors. I had a couple once, but over time I took em down. I mean, other than saying "this is what I adopted somewhere on the net", what point was there to them? >Everyone is familior with web-ratings. Those are those things on a site that say whether or not they are PG rated or for Mature people only. Course they tend to only come in that black box styles. >Easy enough right? So go out there, adopt a panda. These girls need homes and jobs, you dont wanna make them homeless? Pandas are endangered enough as it is. Tell your friends. The rating characters were described thus: > Gee: (G rating) > An all age site. These sites will have no offensive content on them whatsoever. >Pai Gon: (PG rating) >This site contains little or mild offensive materials. Basically stuff only uptight parents would get upset over. :p >Fa Teen: (14 Rating) >This site contains slightly offensive material. High chance of mild swearing, partial nudity, violence and adult themes. >Rebma: (MA Rating) >For mature audiences. Contains high risk of violence, nudity, and adult situations. Viewer should be at least 17 or with parental guidance. >Lady X: (NC-17 rating) >Should definetly NOT be viewed by minors. Contains graphic violence, mature themes, and/or nudity and adult situations. Not for kids in other words. A new one added later was: >Nyra: (No Rating) >Content is still being formatted and worked out and a proper rating has yet to be decided. Even today, the site header for Tapestries MUCK at https://www.fur.com/tapestries/wiki/Tapestries_MUCK has Lady X sitting in the top right corner. And we also see an early, rough approximation of a Creative Commons license at the bottom of the page: >Disclaimer: Even though these can be used on other pages, the characters and graphics still (C) me. In other words, dont say you made them, please give me credit of that. So there you have it. A little snapshot of what it was like.
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>>1191 As a side note, the rest of the site is still up and in its original form, unchanged since its last update in 2008. I recommend a look; it's very characteristic of what those personal home pages were like. They were cringy, yes, but they also show a charmingly naive self-indulgence that's completely disappeared from the modern Internet. For example, take the the "contact" page: >So I'm guessing by clicking this link you are wanting to email me. Thats cool. Maybe you want to say nice things, maybe you want to say angry things. Maybe you want me to link you or to link to me or to ask for something. Still cool. But I figured before I do, I'd put up a quick list in case of things. >1: If you are asking if you can link to my site, the answer is yes. I don't know why you need to ask permission, I'm a big attention glutton. (mwa ha ha) but feel free to email afterwards to link me if you want me to see. I do like seeing other peoples sites. ... >3: If you are emailing because you think I am a cool person and want to become friends with me, you're probably going to be disapointed. >4: If you are sending me gift art, DO NOT SEND BIG ATTACHMENTS!! I stress this one a lot because it happens more than I like. NEVER send BMP files to me. If you're image is over 200KB, then it either should be the internet equivalent of the sistene chapel or its too freaking huge. I only get so much space in my inbox, and when I get 2MG files, it makes me reeeeally miffed. If you don't know what KB or MB are...don't send the image. Please. Spare me. ... >6: If you are asking for porn: Heeheeheehee! The art archive of http://www.mabsland.com/Art.html is at the skill level you'd expect, of course. I'll leave it to others to see if there's anything they think is sufficiently /retro/ to repost. But look, another little breadcrumb: All the "Archives" are in separate pages, and >Archive One has been deleted My guess is that each of those "archives" would have been a separate GeoCities account, in order to get everything in despite free hosting storage limits. Archive One seems to have been deleted because the artist was ashamed, as we can see from https://web.archive.org/web/20030415210010/http://www.mabsland.com/Art1.html : >Aka: Stuff done before mid 2000. Icky! >Gah! What are you doing in here?! O.o >This is where all my older pictures are held. Most of these were dont while I was still learning the basics of PSP5 (and it shows!) >Note: The writing next to them was written at the time I posted. Its sad cause at the time I actually posted some of those, I thought it was my best work ever. O.o PSP5 being, of course, Paint Shop Pro 5. The Wayback Machine also lets you see the very-tame but extensively-marked ADULT ONLY PAGE that's since been removed. It's pretty typical of this sort of Web presence.
>>1179 They were big enough that a musician called Matthew Ebel (aka Hali) made a song about FurryMUCK called "In the MUCK". It was an upbeat jazzy number with this chorus: >If you're in a hurry to be furry >Take the phone off the hook >And hop a wagon or a dragon or a taxi >And tell 'em to book. >If you're lookin' for a place you can escape to >then you're in luck. >Check your skin at the door >and come play with us in the MUCK. Rest of the lyrics at https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/In_the_MUCK - although the link to download the song is long-dead (apparently the deceased Furry Music Foundation) I was able to extract it from a backup archive that the Wayback Machine had hit. MP3 related. Some of the acronyms referenced in the song, according to WikiFur: >L&C: Leash and Collar. A BDSM pet sale/slave auction house that's the equivalent of today's "Tail Sales" in Second Life, but the auction was held live. >DTD: Dusk till Dawn. A vampire bar and club, mostly active at night. >NAC: New Avians Club, a bar/tavern that was located at the top of a tree. One could fly up, if his character had that ability, or climb the tree. For those who couldn't fly and didn't like climbing, they could take the elevator. >POD: Palace of Dragons. A floating castle high in the sky over the main FurryMUCK grid. It had a pool, game room, and several other special sections. The owner of the Palace, and the person who did most of the coding for it, was Skant. Ruffin and Shadow also helped design several of the areas.
I miss when furries didn't make incredibly weird porn and the whole thing genuinely didn't feel sexual most of the time.
>>1195 When was that?
>>1196 Different anon. It was around the early 2000s for me, whenever I encountered furry art (mostly on dA) it would just be cute art of popular cartoon characters or the author's "OC" characters. Looking at it never felt weird, no different from looking at art by disney or any children's studio... Now whenever I see furry art there's always a sexual aspect or other "uncanniness" to it; details that shouldn't be there, suggestive poses and "bedroom eyes" for no reason...etc. And don't get me started on the endless political imagery/symbolism.
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>>1195 >>1197 We know that furries were definitely making lots of weird porn in the early 2000s. VCL and other furry archives as well as the stories of those who were in the fandom at the time confirm it. But I think something more has happened that has eliminated the "innocent" furry art and given even innocuous drawings an edge of sex: >General loss of innocence >Reification of furry characters General loss of innocence is obvious to anyone who lived through earlier eras. In the 1990s and early 2000s you could find porn a-plenty if you looked, but it was tucked away and site operators tried to make an effort to warn minors away with splash pages. The idea of keeping a secret porn stash folder is a quaint idea that doesn't really have relevance today, when you can load up Pornhub-style sites with reams of HQ porn for any fetish imaginable, extensively-tagged boorus, etc., and terabytes more porn is produced every week. The general culture is also much more pornified, without any pretense of modesty or chastity. You could see the beginnings of this in the 1990s and early 2000s but it was still small and the mainstream culture still attempted to hold down modesty (especially since it was still reeling from the HIV and other VD epidemics of the 1980s). Now dominant tastemakers actively shame any questioning of open sexuality. Everything is lewder. This extends to characters of all kinds of well. Lewd character fanart of all stripes is produced, shared openly, celebrated, and very accessible. Where once porn with characters was subversive, it's downright routine today. Now add to this the reification of furries. Reification is the calcification of something's meaning, like how three particular trombone notes now absolutely denote stupidity and it feels weird to see them in another context. In the 1990s and early 2000s, anthro characters were still regarded by the mainstream neutrally - they could be used as cute mascots, or animated characters, or some other use that took advantage of their animal-like features. If anything, they were partially reified as being "for kids" because of their strong associations with Disney and cartoons. But you could draw a cute anthro character and have it be just that: An anthro character, or a "funny animal" as they used to be called. Thanks to two decades of semi-open furry fandom, greater Web/Internet access, all combined with a general loss of innocence mentioned above, anthro characters have reified among post-GenX people to denote "a furry" with all the connotations of the furry fandom's porniness. It's in the culture, the signposts are there, furries aren't a secret. If you draw an anthro character now, it's called a "furry" and the relationship between it and furry fandom has calcified. Anyone learning to draw anthro characters won't be learning from Warner Brothers cels, Disney stills, or mascots - they'll be learning directly from the furry fandom's considerable body of work. That in turn will influence their developing style, baking less innocent elements into their final works. To illustrate, consider how people would react if an upcoming non-early-childhood brand today commissioned an anthro mascot - everyone's first reaction would be "why the fuck are they using a furry?" What I think this all means is that those who might otherwise draw the kind of "innocent" anthro that >>1197 remembers... won't. Draw an innocent furry character and everyone'll assume you fap to fuckin' foxes anyway, and if you produce a good enough character design eventually someone else will draw them with their bits out. Put the general loss of innocence together with the reification of furries, and you have the present situation. Everything is pornier now, and furries are especially pornier because they filter out those who might kick back and try to re-innocentise them. >And don't get me started on the endless political imagery/symbolism. Yeah, that's the culture war. We're entering rough times, and during rough times everything is a weapon. Sucks, but there you go.
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By the way, the images in >>1203 are by Michelle Light. Born 1963 in the Philippines and naturalised to US citizenship four years later, she was introduced to the furry fandom in 1992. The cover of the fourth issue of The American Journal of Anthropomorphics you can see in >>1102 was her work (done in ink and marker), the back cover of the same issue being hers as well. Light's style shows strong influence from an early version of what eventually developed into what I call the "American How-To-Draw-Anime Book style". Japanese works' intrusion into the American market during the 1990s spawned a rush of artists who superficially adopted elements of the Japanese TV cel style without any grounding and combined it with the Western cartoon animation style that suited their actual grounding better (at least, those who had any grounding at all). These forces would develop further during the late 1990s and early 2000s into a kind of monstrous attempt at "American anime/manga" that was the result of an attempt by some publishers/artists to cheaply satisfy market demand for more Japanese properties without going to the trouble of licensing them from Japan. See any "how to draw anime characters" book published from 1999-2006 for how this typically went at the ground level, and any terrible psuedo-anime Internet art circa 2001 for what this produced. (IMO, there were very few successful attempts to fuse American comic and Japanese manga styles - one of them is the work of Adam Warren who drew Empowered after cutting his teeth on the American license-adaptation of The Dirty Pair.) Anyway, Light seems to have been saved by her art education and in my opinion partially recognized the forces driving the "anime" style she integrated, leading to some nice works that still hold up today. Note her use of the GIF format to distribute monochrome works in reasonable resolution, and compare them to one of her more recent pics (2019) that's being sold as a print for 10bux under her Light Bright Studios label (https://www.michelelight.com/ ).
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>>1102 >>1103 >Art 1992 >Alice the Rat Absolute chad. Brian Swords of York will live forever in infamy. >I own all 4 volumes of The American Journal of Anthropomorphics Very envious! That's the kind of thing I was grasping for in the very early 2000s without realizing it, but I think that the younger WWW-driven wave at the time was quite disconnected from the previous partially-offline one. Many of the Web's roads at that time were very well-hidden. Or perhaps I was just ignorant, and that's why I didn't know anything. >his Amiga animations I'd never seen these, thank you! I knew Schwartz only for his Sabrina Online webcomic, and though I knew about his Amiga obsession (hard to miss) I didn't know about his work using it. >>1106 >Joseph D. Ny Huh, what a charming few pictures. I love their strong lines and overall composition. The composition in particular reminds me a little of Italian advertisements from the 1950s-1960s. Wish we could find more from him, I'd love to see it. >>1092 >Tracy Butler, 1998-1999 Very strong "Slayers"-era influence in this part of her work! But you can see that she has a good stash of fundamental skill and her own style hasn't yet developed. But develop it did, and these days she draws the visually-distinctive Lackadaisy webcomic (fourth pic related). This guide from 2011 (fifth pic related) shows that she put in a lot of /loomis/-style grinding in during the 2000s. Admirable. >>1109 >Damn. I remember when I used to bash them just because it was trendy. Then I learned that a lot of artists I liked in the 00s were actually furries and mellowed out a bit about them. There was a lot to bash in furry fandom during the 2000s, to be fair, but like any other upswelling it looked very different from the inside than the outside. Still, that decade saw the strong rise of Web "atrocity tourism" - what we recognise today as lolcow farming - where outlandish, cringeworthy, and horrifying Internet behaviour is harvested and presented for amusement. This originally started in the 1990s with the Portal of Evil (who interestingly had a non-interference "Prime Directive" similar to today's lolcow farmers) and continued through the 2000s with sites like Something Awful that greatly shaped popular perceptions of Internet subcultures in general - as well as producing the whingy backlash among some furries that came to characterise them for a time. >Kind of wish I would have taken part in it back then. I look fondly back on it now. For a while I was terribly ashamed, but I kept it enough of a secret and used enough identity OPSEC (a.k.a. second nature of Web users at the time) that I could comfortably sever myself from the whole thing when I felt that the time was right. All traces of my old handles have long since evaporated completely, so the only record I have of it all is my memories and the memories of those I interacted with. It was strange and cringy but it was also my introduction to a lot of worthwhile things I wouldn't have discovered otherwise, and I had a lot of fun with it. I think it was the right time to be involved, when things were online enough to be present and alive, but not so online that it didn't still feel like a secret, thriving, cozy little subculture. I can only imagine what it's like to get into furry today, with the horrendous cultural factors at play in Gen Z, Discord tranny groomers, floods of highly accessible porn, and platforms like Twitter allowing any obnoxious fucker to get e-clout for having the hottest possible takes. But that's what everyone thinks about the yoof in any generation, so perhaps on balance it'll be okay.
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You know, one part of all this that I know absolutely nothing about is the Japanese kemono scene at this time. Artists like Dr. Comet and Trump/Team Shuffle had their art ripped and reposted a lot but thanks to the language barrier and the Wayback Machine's refusal to archive sites that contained porn, I have no roads into that side of things. I wonder if anyone from >>>/kemono/ might know something?
>>1190 >>1191 >>1192 A lot of nice info. I was first introduced to furries in 98 or 99 when I started playing Furcadia, so it's nice to get some more context and history on the furfag side of things, since all I got to learn about later was Ultima Online's influence, traditional MUDs, and other goings on. Pretty sure I've seen some of those 2001 web rating images too whenever they appeared. The G and NC-17 look familiar. >>1207 >the Wayback Machine's refusal to archive sites that contained porn I'm pretty sure they can't possibly catch all of them. Like everywhere else back then, It was common for Japanese people to have their own websites. But unlike the rest of the internet, this still isn't uncommon over there. Up to 2012-ish it was still common for people to post art on their own personal websites and not even use pixiv. It has gone down I think compared to use of jp blog sites, but those sites get archived too. In my opinion the real hurdle to Wayback Machine scavenging of old 90s and early 2000s content these days is jewgle's removal outdated search results. Makes it almost impossible to find the address of old sites if you don't already know what you're looking for, and even then you still might not find anything. For a kemono search, you might be able to find old doujinshi scans somewhere with a web address on it and use that as a jumping off point, or if you know any circle that has been around a long time, you could wayback their current website and see how far back that domain name goes. Affiliate links were a big thing just like it was for our half of the web, so just finding one old site will get you started. There's also webrings and dedicated directories of websites for certain types of content too that you may be able to come across in some site's links page, in which case you will have hit the jackpot probably. It's too bad oekaki BBS usually don't get archived properly, with broken images or missing pages.
>>1206 >and another piece by brian schwartz... <audience boos Kek >>1203 Quite an analysis, thank you. Maybe in the future the more innocent art will be coveted for its rarity amid a sea of porn.
>>1207 Can't say I know anything about classic kemono, but that cover has me curious.
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>>1207 >>1218 WikiFur has a half-decent history at https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Kemono - much of their very early online roots were in FidoNet-like BBS networks/dedicated services before moving to personal Web pages in the late nineties and their offline roots were of course in doujinshi culture, which is sometimes compared to but very different to American-style con culture. (This difference has in the past caused friction when usually-Americans - especially cosplayers - turn up at Japanese events, assume they’re at a kind of “con”, and break all the unwritten iron rules.) Interestingly, fursuiting didn’t seem to have spread to their side of things until the late 2000s, and only quite sparingly. I attended Mimiket 31 back in 2014, which happened to be co-running that time with the kemono-only Mofuket 4 (pic related). The tables were split between the kemono circles and the kemonomimi circles, and I remember finding the Japanese kemono people - as the stereotype suggests - quite muted and civil. A couple of fursuiters were active, but I guess they were just taking their suits for a short spin to show their circlemates because it seemed to be more about showing off the technical prowess of the construction and design, which struck me as very high. I think events dedicated to fursuiting have since arisen, but I can’t imagine they departed too far from the fundamental pattern and sense of Japanese otaku events. By the way, that drawing in >>1207 is fanart of Bokko from Wonder 3 (second and third pics related), a series created by “father of manga” Tezuka, himself a kind of proto-furry. Many of his private drawings discovered in his locked desk well after his death were basically furry cheesecake (fourth pic related - note the vigorous hindquarter movement lines and the TF-fetish looking drawing in the top left), and he himself spoke of a fascination with the boundary between people and animals, specifically "metamorphic" blends of the two. In the series, Captain Bokko frequently displays more-than-platonic affection towards the teenage human main character Shunichi, and at the end of the series asks her two colleagues to transform her into a human girl so she can be with Shunichi. I'll leave speculation as to what effect this may have had upon a subset of the cartoon's young audience to others.
This is a really cool thread, OP. Thanks for making it and for providing such a wealth of material to discuss. The particular kind of anthro art in the 00s was what got me into that subculture in the first place (although I don't consider myself "a member of the furry fandom" since that kind of identity politicking is cancerous and impractical) along with cartoonists trying to push stuff past the censors. Thanks, Space Jam. >>1092 >>1206 >Very strong "Slayers"-era influence in this part of her work! It's not just an influence; the characters in pic 2 of the post you're quoting are literally just anthro versions of Lamia and Lina Inverse. >But develop it did, and these days she draws the visually-distinctive Lackadaisy webcomic (fourth pic related). This guide from 2011 (fifth pic related) shows that she put in a lot of /loomis/-style grinding in during the 2000s. Admirable. Huh. I had no idea, but that's really impressive; Lackadaisy is a comic I've been meaning to read for a long time, and the archive only gets longer the more I put it off - I never would have guessed that the artist for that and the artist who drew those pictures were the same person. I only recognized the first pictures because I knew it from the cover for the 1st edition of Ironclaw. Using Slayers knockoff art on the cover is one of many questionable decision made in Ironclaw 1E. I actually wrote a huge wall of text about it on smug/tg/'s community reading thread, if anyone's interested in it. >>1207 Aside from the obligatory shitposting about Osamu Tezuka, I can't say I know much, either. It was probably seen as less bizarre in Japan due to the history of Studio Sanrio (and organizations like it) and the general kawaii culture over there. >>1208 >jewgle's removal outdated search results. Makes it almost impossible to find the address of old sites if you don't already know what you're looking for, and even then you still might not find anything There's a german search engine called Metager that I've switched to recently. I don't think it goes as far back as the 90s, but it generally doesn't give me as much SEO filler when I search for a particular term, and I've found a lot of random websites from the early 00s when using it. http://www.anthrozine.com/site/links.html https://www.flayrah.com/ (Still going! Who'd have guessed?) http://transform.to/~ravenb/lair.html >>1219 >Wonder 3 I hadn't heard of that series, but she's really cute. Thanks for sharing. >Captain Bokko frequently displays more-than-platonic affection towards the teenage human main character Shunichi I won't say anything except that doesn't surprise me, considering Tezuka also wrote/created Bagi the Monster of Mighty Nature, which was apparently a criticism of Japanese govt approval involving DNA sequencing and an excuse to have animators draw a nude catgirl fawning over the protagonist.
>>1221 >Ironclaw Huh. I remember one of my former game shops stocked a copy of Ironclaw (no idea which edition), but I never bothered picking it up to look at because I was more interested in Shadowrun, and if I wanted to splash on weird systems I'd never actually play then I would have gone for the copy of Nobilis they had. Or Paranoia XP. This reminds me that re-working CATastrophe is still on my eternal backburner; I still have the source files that the Catfolk Pilot dropped in our laps back on 8chan. Anyway, glancing at that /tg/ thread shows I probably didn't miss anything in book quality terms. Still, cool of you to go through it like that. Still can't quite believe that they actually drew up furry Lina Inverse as a sample character. >Bagi the Monster of Mighty Nature I recognise her mainly from all the kemono art the Japanese drew of her back in the day (and by "the Japanese" here I mean mainly Dr. Comet). Never saw her source material. >webm Oh, well, at least she's displaying catlike behavio- >"Smell my fur!" ...Tezuka, you fuck. It's not fair to do that to kids, not when you've cast a voice like that for your furry love interest. >mp4 I wonder what the Nippon TV programming executives thought of all this when they watched it before airing. You've got to hand it to the man - he got done what he wanted to do.
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>>1221 >>1222 I also found this interesting synopsis of Bagi by the late animation historian Fred Patten, who seems to have had direct correspondence with Tezuka about the film: https://cartoonresearch.com/index.php/the-tezuka-pro-tv-specials-6-baghi-the-monster-of-mighty-nature/ >Dr. Tezuka told me in a letter that he made Baghi especially for me. Ha ha. Tezuka knew of my liking for anthropomorphic animals, and he was quite a kidder. Still, I like to think that he did have me in mind a few times while he made this TV movie. Tezuka was more involved in it than usual. >I do believe one detail that he told me. In the original story development, when Ryosuke as a little boy gets the kitten who will grow into a cat-woman, he says, “I’m going to name her Baghi, like Bagheera in Kipling’s Jungle Book!” That line was cut out in the production. So to anyone who did not talk with Tezuka himself (or his staff, I suppose), the translation of the Japanese katakana characters BA and GI as “Bagi” is perfectly reasonable. (The translation as “Baggy” is not reasonable.) However, her name will always be spelled “Baghi” to me, since I think that is how Dr. Tezuka meant it, and otherwise the name “Bagi” is meaningless. >Baghi was extremely popular with early Furry fans in the mid-‘80s, but judging by all of the fan art on the Internet, Baghi: The Monster of Mighty Nature seems to be a more recent fan favorite and not just with the Furry fans. Given Fred Patten's apparent familiarity with furries combined with his role as an animation historian, his site may well be a good resource to dig through for one type of furry history.
This thread reminded me of an artist I'd seen posted elsewhere on the web ring a few months ago named Jay Axer. His earliest postings on DeviantArt are from around 2005, so he might be at the very tail end of the time period we're talking about, but I think his art was and still is good enough to be worth mentioning. If nothing else, the design of his dragon character Leigh screams early 00s, as do the rest of his characters: they all seem to be some kind of nondescript military operators who wear cool-looking jackets, tank tops and camo pants. I also really like the way he draws clothing. >>1222 >Ironclaw Yeah, it's a real mess of a system in 1E. 2E is better but the cover is absolutely hideous and actual furfags would rather play Pathfinder or DND5E. It's kind of funny how systems designed specifically for anthro characters like Ironclaw or Furry Pirates (yes, there's really a system called Furry Pirates) are eschewed in favour of reworking more generic systems. >>1223 Y'know, I've never actually watched the animation. I guess I should do that in order to appreciate what I'm coming to realize is a landmark of anthro art history.
>lose my entire post FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Anyway. I had started looking into the history of webcomics after this thread reminded me of all the furry webcomics I read when I was younger. I had thought these webcomics were simply part of the larger net of webcomics as a whole, but after watching a webcomics history video I realized that there was a reason why furry webcomics seemed to be their own subgenre or class within the broader internet. The videos in question are here, and I think they're both worth a watch if you're interested in internet history or webcomic history. The first one is generally better but the second one has some good points too. https://yewtu.be/watch?v=Jwcv9YR1n7w https://yewtu.be/watch?v=Jwcv9YR1n7w The main factor I hadn't considered was that the people who created the early internet were one of two types: computer scientists, and university students with access to computer science labs. Turns out that a large portion of these people tend to be furries compared to the rest of the population (hmm, wonder why). This had a few runoff effects on the internet landscape in the 1990s: - It tended to be weird stuff that wouldn't fit anywhere else. - It tended to be link-driven. - You could do whatever you wanted. The polar opposite of the contemporary internet. It was only natural for people to use this space to talk about things that nobody else in meatspace would understand, like how to draw a furry character or what kind of extremely specific HDD you should buy to make your CompSci class's machine run faster. One thing that has sort of come full circle is the prevalence of text in a visual medium like comics. Computer scientists are generally not artistic people, and many of the gag-a-day comics from the 90s were almost exclusively focused on text. Pic 3 is a strip taken from Skin Horse (ignore the filename), which is a webcomic that started in 2007 and is still going. It's very similar to the artist's previous work, Narbonic (pic 4), which was almost exclusively text jokes and simple sketch drawings. I think that's very indicative of webcomics as a whole - if there's no text, how is the audience supposed to tell what's going on? I had some more to say but I've run out of steam now so I'll just end this post here. I'm interested to hear if any of you was as invested in webcomics as I was. I wouldn't consider myself an expert but when I was a kid I did think it was incredible that I could read hundreds of webcomics for free.
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>>1240 I used to love webcomics. I read a lot of them in years past, but the only "furry" webcomic I still read is Freefall, which has been going since 1998 and which I still read weekly today. I think it's a great example of a furry comic that's has points of interest outside the fact that it has a furry character, and actually funny. It's also slow - very, very slow - but I've never minded it because each strip delivers something without much filler that I remember. Apparently the characters were first used as early as 1989 as occasional appearances in YARF! (subline "The Journal of Applied Anthropomorphics"), which is another piece of print history I've never actually seen. Apart from Freefall I also read Sabrina Online, but I don't remember many other furry webcomics holding my interest even when I actively sought them out. I did read a lot of other webcomics at the time, though I'm honestly struggling to remember them. I remember Real Life, Mac Hall... damn, I read so many but remember so few. >The main factor I hadn't considered was that the people who created the early internet were one of two types: computer scientists, and university students with access to computer science labs. Turns out that a large portion of these people tend to be furries compared to the rest of the population (hmm, wonder why). Undeniably correct. Also, don't forget the underground guys who migrated into the WWW proper as BBSes and dedicated hardware platforms like the Amiga died out. That lead to an interesting clash of cultures and many misunderstandings as the heavily academic/student WWW/Usenet "MIT hacker"-type denizens encountered the people who'd cut their teeth in the earlier demoscene/warez cultures, which were nearly polar opposite in much of their aesthetics and ways. That caused the whole hacker/cracker worddispute that dragged on for years and years even after the general public and media stopped giving a shit approximately 7 seconds after learning of it. (Then, as now, the furry fandom had more than its fair share of infosec types.) There were also the Usenet alt-culture people (esp. BDSM), who heavily overlapped with both of the aforementioned groups, and who also donated a chunk of their people to furry fandom as it came online. >It was only natural for people to use this space to talk about things that nobody else in meatspace would understand, like how to draw a furry character or what kind of extremely specific HDD you should buy to make your CompSci class's machine run faster. The early connectivity that Usenet and the WWW gave to niche interests had an absolutely explosive effect on them. I once talked to a high-level miniature wargaming paint-guy who told me about the miniatures/garage kit painting scene pre-Usenet and how the state of the art (so to speak) advanced very slowly. But as Usenet became more prevalent, scanners/digital cameras appeared, and the ability to connect with others as interested as you were, techniques and results suddenly exploded in quality. I think the furry fandom was the same, though they seem to have had a much stronger journaling/zine scene before moving online. >Computer scientists are generally not artistic people, and many of the gag-a-day comics from the 90s were almost exclusively focused on text. Very true, but I suspect that was a later development. Pic 5 here is from "Doctor Fun", which was the first WWW-distributed comic (though not the first Internet-distributed comic) that first appeared in 1993, back when you could subscribe to an actual weekly email newsletter called "What's New on the Web" that contained 99% of the new sites/updates to the WWW that week. It used the single panel with caption style popularised by Gary Larson's The Far Side. The creator was David Farley, who at the time was a technician in the University of Chicago. In my mind, the WORDS WORDS WORDS style came a little later and was associated with the first wave of aspiring artists who could sling strips and wanted to tell stories but who hadn't yet quite mastered brevity. I might be wrong though; I think a proper tracing of early webcomic efforts by year might reveal some interesting insights.
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>>1242 Man, I've never even heard of this but just looking at the art style made me nostalgic. I've heard that wall writing is unironically the voice of the ancient people. Webcomics are really that for our internet. Just people making a Sunday Funny with much less practice or skill or humor, but with a million times more commitment. Anyone else who's read Basic Instructions?
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>>1243 is that the webcomic that Cracked later featured? I remember one of the characters having a goatee and reminding me of Louis C.K. If that's the one, he looks more like Kane from Command & Conquer than I remember.
>>1244 Wouldn't know about that, chief, although I remember reading Cracked a lot I never truly think I really liked much of it other than like a couple of articles about bootleg toys and the ones about tabletops. Anyhow, the guy used to be really funny. I think I liked it best when he didn't copy and paste his characters all the time, that is, for the first twenty or so comics before he streamlined them a lot. But there's still a ton of comedy gold in there.
I used to be all over shitty webcomics in the 00s. Mainly the ones hosted on Keenspot. There was this furry comic called Twokinds that was just another crappy Keenspot comic back then, but now the author is making good money on Patreon. I also read El Goonish Shive, also nowadays making good money on Patreon. >>1240 You posted the same link twice anon.
>>1242 >Freefall I remember reading that one. It's good, but the format made me get pretty tired of it; as you said, it moves VERY slowly, but the setting is still really cartoony and not grounded. I remember there was one random secondary character near the start who was bald as a result of gene therapy - something about spacer/colonist types adjusting better on ships if they didn't have hair to get in the way. >"furry" webcomic It's funny you mention that; I remember one particularly shitposty comic that made a joke about "Florence Ambrose nude pics" for some reason, but I can't for the life of me remember the context. Might have been a crossover event, although nothing with that kind of punchline would have been officially endorsed by Freefall. Now that I'm thinking more about it, I recall there being a lot of crossover events for webcomic communities in the 00s. Many of the artists were e-friends and would routinely draw guest strips for April Fool's Day and other reasons. There was a lot of healthy cross-pollination, which was a consequence of the early internet was so link-driven like I mentioned before. I can't count the number of webcomics that I read and didn't like, but whose link/related sections got me hooked on something else. Everything is "found" using search algorithms and big data now. >the heavily academic/student WWW/Usenet "MIT hacker"-type denizens encountered the people who'd cut their teeth in the earlier demoscene/warez cultures You've probably already seen it, but Frederick Knudsen's internet documentary on furries has some screenshots and description of what the prehistoric internet was like. Hardware servers that used scanline technology to draw vector letters; their main purpose was to share files and other things at speeds we'd consider beyond glacial by modern standards. The overall tone of the documentary is way too positive (apparently Knudsen developed a fursona while creating it), but there's a lot of good information: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=8aF2GxWi7Ag >>1247 >twokinds I remember that one; had a lot of genderbending and slaves who liked being slaves. It was total trash but my stupid weeb kid mind thought it was entertaining and that the chicks had big boobs. If the artist is making good money, it's not due to the comic being good, I can say that for certain. >You posted the same link twice anon. FUCK https://yewtu.be/watch?v=lQW8hW2sNy0 This is the worse of the two webcomic documentaries, but it's still pretty good.
>>1246 I liked their listicles about things like history and odd topics. I must have stopped reading Cracked.com around nine or ten years ago, since they really went downhill.
>>1207 >>>/kemono/ is treated more as a bunker, the thread on prolikewoah is far more active (even smug to a lesser extent) https://prolikewoah.com/animu/res/31473.html https://smuglo.li/a/res/815382.html I'm not familiar with the older kemono artists, but older uploads on boorus (gelbooru, e621, etc) often have art from earlier periods. gelbooru deprecated its anthro tags, but I found a couple 90s artists on e621 I've never seen before. Uploaded in order: karabiner https://e621.net/artists/239 macop https://e621.net/artists/1354 m.wolverine I also found this last image during my search. I guess some things never change.
>>1272 >I also found this last image during my search. I guess some things never change. A cat is fine too.
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Probably not specific to furries, but I think what I miss the most about older art was artists actually improving their style over time. Now many of them just stagnate and collect Patreon bux. >>1244 >>1246 >>1249 >Cracked Don't remind me.
>>1492 I honestly don't mind it when artists stagnate, considering how many of them actively seek to make their art worse. Begging for money on Patreon and other paywall sites is shameful, but at least sites like Kemono.party help me to get past paywalls (and most people who do beg like that usually produce nothing but garbage).
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This is a bit old and it's not what we'd really call furry, but I thought it would be of interest to anyone reading this thread. These are some paintings by the artist Joanna Karpowicz: https://joannakarpowicz.pl/. The guy who posted them in the kemono thread on /animu/ claimed they were from 1976, but according to the artist's website they're from 2012-2020. I tried to dig a bit deeper and found that the Polish publisher who's producing an art book with the full collection of the paintings actually has a website that would quality for /retro/ status. Just look at it: https://sklep.timof.pl/preorder/main.php?page=basket The paintings are a bit simple (Anubis's head is literally just a flat silhouette in many of them) but I find that they have a certain je-ne-sais-quois. There's something appealing about them that I just can't describe, and it might be that the simple style really contributes to that. Anubis has such a distinctly human figure, but the obvious canine head atop it is a really sharp contrast.
>>2351 That poor dog...
>>2351 Did you really have to bump the thread just to post that?
>>2357 yes.
>>1088 >>1089 >>1093 >>1094 So what happened to furries? I know fetish porn has been a thing with them since forever, but old drawings like this have far more personality than the shit that gets posted now. Is it my biased nostalgia for the 90s/00s art styles, or did they just try harder than the modern furfags on patreon?
>>2375 >Is it my biased nostalgia for the 90s/00s art styles, or did they just try harder than the modern furfags on patreon? Some of column A, some of column B. Also survivor bias, furries learning from furries, and reification. Remember that this thread's examples are often from the upper end of the furry artists who practiced at the time, who came from backgrounds with actual training in animation, illustration, and art. There was much more content floating around by completely untalented, uneducated, unpracticed furry artists (some of which is also ITT), but because it was shit nobody bothers remembering it. You can browse some corners of the VCL (http://us.vclart.net/vcl/) to see what I mean, although it seems to be having a database problem at the moment. >>1203 explains the furries learning from furries and reification bit: >Anyone learning to draw anthro characters won't be learning from Warner Brothers cels, Disney stills, or mascots - they'll be learning directly from the furry fandom's considerable body of work. That in turn will influence their developing style, baking less innocent elements into their final works. If you filtered out all the dross from this era, you'd probably some a few artists working with furries who're creating interesting art at an effort level more like some of the stuff above. Also, maybe one or two of the Patreon leeches might end up developing into something interesting, like how Tracy Butler went from generic 1990s-uguu to drawing Lackadaisy.
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Check out http://www.furry.org.au/ and especially the http://furry.org.au/chakat/ subpage! Warning: some NSFW.
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A small sample of old furry art. Neither of them were ever uploaded on that terrible site named after a food additive.
>>2375 I encountered something recently that made me think about the topic you raised. I think it's partially what >>2376 said, in that "how to draw a furry" has become a lot more streamlined and smooth than it used to be, and the same can be said of many hobbies and art media from cartoons to film. As easy as it would be to chalk things up to subhuman hodes with smartphones and tablet PCs, I think there is a secondary factor. For whatever reason, there don't seem to be any kinds of subcommunities within "the furry fandom" that aren't infected by some kind of poz or obsession with some kind of fetish - no large subcommunities, anyway. Modern video games and film and music are cancerous but there are still groups of people within the indie scenes of those media that make passion projects for themselves, and there are influencers/bloggers who ensure that people who want the niche stuff can find it. I can't think of any equivalent group in the furry fandom, who want to focus on cute or SFW drawings, or who disavow all the poz and sparkledog faggotry that inevitably follows furries. Possibly this is due to the wider culture war, or due to most furries not-so-secretly being perverts. If you know of any group like this aside from the doomed Burned Furs, then please tell me because I'd like to know. The closest thing I can think of was a furcon held for furries who would be cancelled from normal furcons for being problematic, but even that still had fursuiters and various flavours of attention whore. But, anyway, here's what I encountered recently: I was browsing e621 the other day, looking up scalie female. After skimming the first couple pages I realized that there were 750 pages in total, and I got curious as to what was at the back of the archive. I went to page 500 and found . . . Susie the lizard/dinosaur from Deltarune, which released in 2018. Even by page 650 I was still in 2017, seeing pictures of Salazzle, a pokemon that only began to exist in 2016. Page 700 was recent enough to have Princess Ember from MLP:FiM. The single earliest image I could find under these tags was from 2015. No, I did not fap to these specific pictures. I'm just saying. Now, obviously, the results for something more popular like canine or feline would have a more comprehensive timeline, but even a quick search for "reptile female" or "lizard female" returned fewer pages of results overall so I think my search was decent enough without being a tag that includes literally almost everything ever drawn. I'm not sure what the technical term for this intersection of media and data storage would be, but the ratio of stuff that is practically archived compared to the stuff that is absolutely created is growing. There's also a run-off factor here, in that things made recently tend to be favoured by modern search engines, and things made recently tend to be made for modern search engines. You've probably noticed that finding obscure stuff is really hard unless you use a weirdo search engine like MetaGer. The recency bias (and the bias towards stuff/creators that have been influenced by the culture war) is absolutely suffocating. Even if someone wanted to reject modern furry culture, where the fuck would he go? How would he find any kind of alternative? Sorry if this was kind of long-winded. It's a bit late where I am and I wanted to get my thoughts down before going to bed.
>>2559 >second spoiler I was referring to the pictures on e621; it was meant to be a joke that became somewhat muddled. The pics I attached were to contribute some art to the thread since I really like Jay Axer's style even if he is a footfag.
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Also, talking about old furry art reminded me of an old website I found on a longshot four years ago when I was looking for Ironclaw resources and asked the GM of literally the only Ironclaw campaign session recording on YouTube for advice. I'm so glad I found this; I actually went to the trouble of printing off and cutting out the character illustrations and wedging them into little foam blocks so they could stand up on a map. I had forgotten the URL and I was worried the site had gone offline in the meantime. Feast your eyes: http://greywolf.critter.net/ironclaw/paper.htm Strangely, Ironclaw is not very popular among furries even though it's tailor made for them. Most of them prefer D&D5e or Pathfinder.
>>2561 >ye >ya I see that furries still try to maintain typing quirks as part of a quest to roleplay everywhere, all the time.
>>2565 >i found a channel with a meaningless username and no content after i was told exactly where to look for it Do you want a medal for being autistic?
>>2566 yes please daddy give me the chunky monkey
>>2559 >Even if someone wanted to reject modern furry culture, where the fuck would he go? How would he find any kind of alternative? Your best bet would be to visit old furry forums or BBS's that still exist and browse those. Otherwise create a new community with strict rules on what is or isn't allowed.
>>1121 >For more Information on the art >of James Bender, email; I'm learning to draw and this seems like a good idea. Every art site has something about it that's unappealing. I don't want to learn self-hosting because I already waste too much time procrastinating. I'm not interested in playing the social media game nor chasing the patreon bux. Just make it less intrusive and share my drawings with anons.
>>1492 Cracked.com was always a shitty clickbait site. Now it's just SJW shitty clickbait.
>>2688 I found it both entertaining and informative back in the day. Of course I was a teenager, but still.
>>2688 You're not wrong, but at least some of the articles were interesting or informative without a blatant political bias.
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I started reading Lackadaisy the other day after putting it off for over a decade because I heard it's getting adapted into a short film. It's a strikingly beautiful comic, and has reminded me how awesome the internet is for allowing me to see things like this completely free of charge. The pacing is pretty snappy but not afraid to spend many pages (which themselves are quite large) on a particular event if it seems natural. A lot of traditional comics were slaves to deadlines and advertisements for kids' toys and breakfast cereals, which made it impossible to read the actual content without skimming past them. You couldn't pitch an idea like Lackadaisy (Prohibition-era gangster drama in monochrome sepia with cat people) to someone like Marvel or DC and expect it to fly, and even if you were accepted you wouldn't be getting the same support as Superman or Spiderman. Has anyone else been going around and reading stuff you put off for a long time?
>>2832 I saw some of the teasers. They look surprisingly good. I’m cautiously hopeful.
>>2833 Yeah, the only thing I don't like is that one of the French characters is voiced by a negress and doesn't speak with the type of accent that her phonetically written accent would imply.
>>2837 Frenchfag here. If only you knew how bad things really are. Due to our colonial history and thanks to the francophony we have a lot of Africans here. And as we say, due to le Droit de l'Homme and le Valeurs de la République, everybody in the world is french by default. So in a certain way, having french characters whose voice sounds niggerish makes perfct sense. You haven't idea how many the french people love the niggers.
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>>2839 I know there are a fair number of Francophone Africans thanks to the colonial history of the nation and its proximity to Africa, but this is a Francophone in America. It's far more likely that she'd be white, either by being French or by being Cajun. The accent makes this even more clear: they don't seem to talk with any kind of pure French accent; I'm pretty sure it's meant to be Cajun French. >everybody in the world is french by default Pretty based.
>>2893 >I'm pretty sure it's meant to be Cajun French. I mean yeah, obviously. And cajun's are mostly black. The New Orleans stereotype is black-french, how can you be confused or shocked by this? If the character is being voiced by a black-french american nigger then it's literally perfect casting.
>>2900 I've only ever seen white Cajuns in media and I hate niggers.
>>2900 Aren't you confusing Cajuns with "Creoles of color"?
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It's pseudo-retro and only coincidentally furry, but this little demo in SmileBASIC by Japanese fursona-having kemono fan Dr. Arawashi (ドクター荒鷲) reminded me of this thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLBu5Glz484
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>>1092 >>1206 >Very strong "Slayers"-era influence in this part of her work! I was recently reading through Lackadaisy and decided to follow one of the old links on the site to www.foxprints.com, her defunct but intact personal website. The site is so out of date that clicking on the Tracy section and navigating to the Art Gallery gives you the raw file tree in your browser, but you can still get to the HTML pages for each work easily enough. >https://foxprints.com/tracy/gallery/furry/lnsang.html The cover for Sanguine's Ironclaw RPG book. They commissioned this from me a few years back...I really don't like anime much...but they requested that it look like you know who and whatsherface from that show--so if you feel like writing me some hate mail about it, save your energy and do something more constructive with it. >I think the only reason I put this up is from pure spite for the people who've flamed me for this image. Go complain at someone who draws fan art all day an leave me alone. At least I had a reason for doing this...money! Apparently the people at Sanguine are the furry weebs and she was just a hapless instrument of their strange crossover ideas.
Someone on another furry board mentioned an early 90s website dedicated to "animal men" predating the modern furry fandom. I'm curious if anyone knows what it was. (I doubt there were a lot of competitors in the early days of the internet.) I love digging through posts on old forums.
>>3275 Does that mean the "animal men" existed before the '70s and '80s when the furry culture started to take shape?
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>>3249 Well I never. Looking at the rest of the pages under https://foxprints.com/tracy/gallery/furry/ it seems that her actual, non-aping-Slayers-on-instruction work is much closer to her current style. Still has traces of how-to-draw to it, but that's completely understandable and not to be taken as negative criticism of an artist doing what's necessary to develop. That'll teach us to post without a full literature review.
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>>3276 Of course. Taken expansively, anthropomorphic animals have appeared in human culture for years untold: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_animals_in_fiction First and second pics related are from the 13th and 14th centuries, the former from a manuscript of the talking-animal collection Roman de Renart and the latter being marginalia from a prayer book. Funny Animals likewise appeared very early in the history of animation. 1914's Gertie might be pushing the definition too much, but Felix the Cat appeared in 1919, albeit only doing "man things" occasionally and walking on four legs otherwise, but the more he appeared the more bipedal he got. Plenty for the motivated researcher to pull, certainly.
>>2833 The finished animation forgot what it was supposed to be, IMO - although it was very pretty, it was an expensive example of what happens when a comic sucks storyboards into its orbit and an animation director can't overcome illustration. Which is a shame, because there was plenty of very good material there if only they'd been able to thresh it out of all the work they didn't have to do! But as it was, it ended up feeling frustratingly limp.>>2833
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>>3278 I misinterpreted that and thought that "animal men" were some kind of proto-furry subculture, like maybe something that developed as a niche among early science fiction or fantasy fans. I remember reading on the Classic Horror Film Board about how autistic some Californian Dracula fan club got at some point during the midcentury period, so something as seemingly contemporary as a proto-furry group wouldn't really shock me. I'm not a furry, but a while ago I became fascinated with medieval marginalia and all the weirdness the illustrations would portray.
>>3280 1930s science fiction fandom was absolutely wild, drama and all, so I wouldn't be surprised if there was a brief sparking of focused interest in Animal Men, but someone truly dedicated would have to dredge for telltale signs in what survives of the many fanzines from the period, or find some waypoints from other reviews of furry history.
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>>3281 >1930s science fiction fandom was absolutely wild, drama and all Do you know of any good reading on the subject? I mainly know bits and pieces, like like how much of an autist Forrest J. Ackerman was. I remember when I started really getting into old sci-fi and fantasy movies as a teenager and being surprised he was still alive at that point. He also got Me Too'd a few years ago, and there are even worse allegations out there about him. I've heard of people finding him personally annoying (including big-name actors he'd encountered from what I recall), but I didn't know it went beyond people just thinking he was a sperg.
>>3282 I read through a wonderful book-length review of the period on some author's blog or the other where he went into multiple sources and picked apart what happened - which very much contradicted the official histories written by those who won and hauled themselves up into publishing thereby - but I've infuriatingly lost the link and thanks to the absolute uselessness of modern search cannot seem to find it again. I'll keep looking and will post it here if I find it. You can be sure I'll be saving my own copy if I do! The subsequent secret history of science fiction publishing through the 1960s-1990s especially is shot through with some truly shocking things but that's neither my own area of expertise nor what this thread's about, so I can only advise finding the wild Twitter/Fediverse autists who do specialize and asking them.
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>>3282 >>3283 Found it! The write-up I remembered was in five parts, under the name of The Last Fanatic by JD Cowan, which drew mainly on Sam Moskowitz's The Immortal Storm: A History of Science Fiction Fandom. Here are the links: https://wastelandandsky.blogspot.com/2022/01/the-last-fanatic-part-i-end-is-beginning.html https://wastelandandsky.blogspot.com/2022/01/the-last-fanatic-part-ii-long-way-down.html https://wastelandandsky.blogspot.com/2022/01/the-last-fanatic-part-iii-pit-of.html https://wastelandandsky.blogspot.com/2022/01/the-last-fanatic-part-iv-mutation-death.html https://wastelandandsky.blogspot.com/2022/02/the-last-fanatic-part-v-dead-endings.html I also found a 36MB PDF of The Immortal Storm trade paperback, previews via Google Books etc. being unavailable, and have uploaded it to Catbox here: https://files.catbox.moe/2cgv50.pdf Be forewarned that Cowan's write-up gets tediously ranty in places, but it is still a good skim through the highlights buried in Moskowitz's book and the supposed connections they have to what happened after that period and where we are today. My favorite drama story has to be where some of these New York-based science fiction youths of leisure (with no known occupation and plenty of money to spare during the height of the Great Depression, hm) showed up at the author's door at 5:45am, bearing the (false) news of the death of one William S. Sykora, a fellow fan, then sat in his house insulting him until dawn broke, whereupon they fucked off and left him to discover the hoax after he wrote a letter of condolence to the not-deceased's family. The story starts on page 140 of the book (p158 of the PDF) and there are further references to those "epic feuds" on the page of the not-deceased - https://fancyclopedia.org/William_S._Sykora - who himself was later reportedly "arrested, and released with a warning, in a charge involving a little girl", twice. Nothing to do with furries, animal men or otherwise, but it does give a feel for the period and a possible crevice in which one might search for proto-furry material.
>>3283 >>3285 Thanks a ton.
>>3280 >I'm not a furry, but Where have I heard that before? Kidding, kidding . . . I've never gotten into history much but medieval illustration is really neat. It's like a kind of European hieroglyphs that show a very different way of representing the world compared to the more famous stuff like Renaissance paintings and ancient sculpture. It looks so simple and often silly, but the amount of effort required to create a book prior to the printing press was absolutely staggering so I know it must have been planned very carefully. I can't say I've heard of any furry or furry-like fandom predating the late 20th century, but if there were to have been a group of weirdos who liked animal people women just a little more than they should have then it would have been SFF authors (back when science fiction and fantasy were both considered lame stuff for kids, and lumped together into the same genre). >>3285 This seems really cool. I may read it if I have the time.
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>>3290 That second one reminded me that I had these. Apologies for the tiny resolution.
>>3285 I finished up the first part on the night you posted this and am going to start the second pretty soon. Thanks again. >My favorite drama story has to be where some of these New York-based science fiction youths of leisure (with no known occupation and plenty of money to spare during the height of the Great Depression, hm) showed up at the author's door at 5:45am, bearing the (false) news of the death of one William S. Sykora, a fellow fan, then sat in his house insulting him until dawn broke, whereupon they fucked off and left him to discover the hoax after he wrote a letter of condolence to the not-deceased's family. The story starts on page 140 of the book (p158 of the PDF) and there are further references to those "epic feuds" on the page of the not-deceased - https://fancyclopedia.org/William_S._Sykora - who himself was later reportedly "arrested, and released with a warning, in a charge involving a little girl", twice. That comment about his arrest reminds me of the "worst allegations" I mentioned about Forrest J. Ackerman. I seem to recall a story from someone saying that he received unsolicited cheese pizza from him through the mail. I recall another account from someone (probably a different person) who claimed that he was given a tour of the Ackermansion and claimed to have momentarily seen a naked young boy who stayed out of sight. I think he also sent really angry hate mail to people he didn't like. In hindsight affable old Uncle Forry doesn't seem like such a great guy after all. >>3290 >It looks so simple and often silly, but the amount of effort required to create a book prior to the printing press was absolutely staggering so I know it must have been planned very carefully. The impression I get is that a lot of the goofier marginalia was basically visual shitposting by bored monks with extra space to fill, sometimes in a pretty literal way. I could be wrong though. >(back when science fiction and fantasy were both... lumped together into the same genre). Those were the days. >>3291 >Pal-ul-Don Nice. I actually own a vintage copy of Tarzan the Terrible. The Tarzan books generally don't interest me in comparison to the other Edgar Rice Burroughs series, but I liked the lost world setting of that one that's more comparable to one of the Pellucidar books.
>>3292 I meant to add that medieval manuscripts absolutely were time intensive to make though.

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