/retro/ - Y2K

1990s and 2000s Nostalgia

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/Y2KFG/ - Y2K Furry General Fellow Time Traveler 04/21/2021 (Wed) 23:31:56 No.1088
A thread for artwork and content of anthropomorphic animals characters (or "furries") from the late 1990s and early 2000s. Sources are encouraged. Resources: https://yerf.metafur.org/ http://us.vclart.net/vcl/ https://confurence.com/
>>1207 >>>/kemono/ is treated more as a bunker, the thread on prolikewoah is far more active (even smug to a lesser extent) https://prolikewoah.com/animu/res/31473.html https://smuglo.li/a/res/815382.html I'm not familiar with the older kemono artists, but older uploads on boorus (gelbooru, e621, etc) often have art from earlier periods. gelbooru deprecated its anthro tags, but I found a couple 90s artists on e621 I've never seen before. Uploaded in order: karabiner https://e621.net/artists/239 macop https://e621.net/artists/1354 m.wolverine I also found this last image during my search. I guess some things never change.
>>1272 >I also found this last image during my search. I guess some things never change. A cat is fine too.
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Probably not specific to furries, but I think what I miss the most about older art was artists actually improving their style over time. Now many of them just stagnate and collect Patreon bux. >>1244 >>1246 >>1249 >Cracked Don't remind me.
>>1492 I honestly don't mind it when artists stagnate, considering how many of them actively seek to make their art worse. Begging for money on Patreon and other paywall sites is shameful, but at least sites like Kemono.party help me to get past paywalls (and most people who do beg like that usually produce nothing but garbage).
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This is a bit old and it's not what we'd really call furry, but I thought it would be of interest to anyone reading this thread. These are some paintings by the artist Joanna Karpowicz: https://joannakarpowicz.pl/. The guy who posted them in the kemono thread on /animu/ claimed they were from 1976, but according to the artist's website they're from 2012-2020. I tried to dig a bit deeper and found that the Polish publisher who's producing an art book with the full collection of the paintings actually has a website that would quality for /retro/ status. Just look at it: https://sklep.timof.pl/preorder/main.php?page=basket The paintings are a bit simple (Anubis's head is literally just a flat silhouette in many of them) but I find that they have a certain je-ne-sais-quois. There's something appealing about them that I just can't describe, and it might be that the simple style really contributes to that. Anubis has such a distinctly human figure, but the obvious canine head atop it is a really sharp contrast.
>>2351 That poor dog...
>>2351 Did you really have to bump the thread just to post that?
>>2357 yes.
>>1088 >>1089 >>1093 >>1094 So what happened to furries? I know fetish porn has been a thing with them since forever, but old drawings like this have far more personality than the shit that gets posted now. Is it my biased nostalgia for the 90s/00s art styles, or did they just try harder than the modern furfags on patreon?
>>2375 >Is it my biased nostalgia for the 90s/00s art styles, or did they just try harder than the modern furfags on patreon? Some of column A, some of column B. Also survivor bias, furries learning from furries, and reification. Remember that this thread's examples are often from the upper end of the furry artists who practiced at the time, who came from backgrounds with actual training in animation, illustration, and art. There was much more content floating around by completely untalented, uneducated, unpracticed furry artists (some of which is also ITT), but because it was shit nobody bothers remembering it. You can browse some corners of the VCL (http://us.vclart.net/vcl/) to see what I mean, although it seems to be having a database problem at the moment. >>1203 explains the furries learning from furries and reification bit: >Anyone learning to draw anthro characters won't be learning from Warner Brothers cels, Disney stills, or mascots - they'll be learning directly from the furry fandom's considerable body of work. That in turn will influence their developing style, baking less innocent elements into their final works. If you filtered out all the dross from this era, you'd probably some a few artists working with furries who're creating interesting art at an effort level more like some of the stuff above. Also, maybe one or two of the Patreon leeches might end up developing into something interesting, like how Tracy Butler went from generic 1990s-uguu to drawing Lackadaisy.
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Check out http://www.furry.org.au/ and especially the http://furry.org.au/chakat/ subpage! Warning: some NSFW.
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A small sample of old furry art. Neither of them were ever uploaded on that terrible site named after a food additive.
>>2375 I encountered something recently that made me think about the topic you raised. I think it's partially what >>2376 said, in that "how to draw a furry" has become a lot more streamlined and smooth than it used to be, and the same can be said of many hobbies and art media from cartoons to film. As easy as it would be to chalk things up to subhuman hodes with smartphones and tablet PCs, I think there is a secondary factor. For whatever reason, there don't seem to be any kinds of subcommunities within "the furry fandom" that aren't infected by some kind of poz or obsession with some kind of fetish - no large subcommunities, anyway. Modern video games and film and music are cancerous but there are still groups of people within the indie scenes of those media that make passion projects for themselves, and there are influencers/bloggers who ensure that people who want the niche stuff can find it. I can't think of any equivalent group in the furry fandom, who want to focus on cute or SFW drawings, or who disavow all the poz and sparkledog faggotry that inevitably follows furries. Possibly this is due to the wider culture war, or due to most furries not-so-secretly being perverts. If you know of any group like this aside from the doomed Burned Furs, then please tell me because I'd like to know. The closest thing I can think of was a furcon held for furries who would be cancelled from normal furcons for being problematic, but even that still had fursuiters and various flavours of attention whore. But, anyway, here's what I encountered recently: I was browsing e621 the other day, looking up scalie female. After skimming the first couple pages I realized that there were 750 pages in total, and I got curious as to what was at the back of the archive. I went to page 500 and found . . . Susie the lizard/dinosaur from Deltarune, which released in 2018. Even by page 650 I was still in 2017, seeing pictures of Salazzle, a pokemon that only began to exist in 2016. Page 700 was recent enough to have Princess Ember from MLP:FiM. The single earliest image I could find under these tags was from 2015. No, I did not fap to these specific pictures. I'm just saying. Now, obviously, the results for something more popular like canine or feline would have a more comprehensive timeline, but even a quick search for "reptile female" or "lizard female" returned fewer pages of results overall so I think my search was decent enough without being a tag that includes literally almost everything ever drawn. I'm not sure what the technical term for this intersection of media and data storage would be, but the ratio of stuff that is practically archived compared to the stuff that is absolutely created is growing. There's also a run-off factor here, in that things made recently tend to be favoured by modern search engines, and things made recently tend to be made for modern search engines. You've probably noticed that finding obscure stuff is really hard unless you use a weirdo search engine like MetaGer. The recency bias (and the bias towards stuff/creators that have been influenced by the culture war) is absolutely suffocating. Even if someone wanted to reject modern furry culture, where the fuck would he go? How would he find any kind of alternative? Sorry if this was kind of long-winded. It's a bit late where I am and I wanted to get my thoughts down before going to bed.
>>2559 >second spoiler I was referring to the pictures on e621; it was meant to be a joke that became somewhat muddled. The pics I attached were to contribute some art to the thread since I really like Jay Axer's style even if he is a footfag.
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Also, talking about old furry art reminded me of an old website I found on a longshot four years ago when I was looking for Ironclaw resources and asked the GM of literally the only Ironclaw campaign session recording on YouTube for advice. I'm so glad I found this; I actually went to the trouble of printing off and cutting out the character illustrations and wedging them into little foam blocks so they could stand up on a map. I had forgotten the URL and I was worried the site had gone offline in the meantime. Feast your eyes: http://greywolf.critter.net/ironclaw/paper.htm Strangely, Ironclaw is not very popular among furries even though it's tailor made for them. Most of them prefer D&D5e or Pathfinder.
>>2561 >ye >ya I see that furries still try to maintain typing quirks as part of a quest to roleplay everywhere, all the time.
>>2565 >i found a channel with a meaningless username and no content after i was told exactly where to look for it Do you want a medal for being autistic?
>>2566 yes please daddy give me the chunky monkey
>>2559 >Even if someone wanted to reject modern furry culture, where the fuck would he go? How would he find any kind of alternative? Your best bet would be to visit old furry forums or BBS's that still exist and browse those. Otherwise create a new community with strict rules on what is or isn't allowed.
>>1121 >For more Information on the art >of James Bender, email; I'm learning to draw and this seems like a good idea. Every art site has something about it that's unappealing. I don't want to learn self-hosting because I already waste too much time procrastinating. I'm not interested in playing the social media game nor chasing the patreon bux. Just make it less intrusive and share my drawings with anons.
>>1492 Cracked.com was always a shitty clickbait site. Now it's just SJW shitty clickbait.
>>2688 I found it both entertaining and informative back in the day. Of course I was a teenager, but still.
>>2688 You're not wrong, but at least some of the articles were interesting or informative without a blatant political bias.
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I started reading Lackadaisy the other day after putting it off for over a decade because I heard it's getting adapted into a short film. It's a strikingly beautiful comic, and has reminded me how awesome the internet is for allowing me to see things like this completely free of charge. The pacing is pretty snappy but not afraid to spend many pages (which themselves are quite large) on a particular event if it seems natural. A lot of traditional comics were slaves to deadlines and advertisements for kids' toys and breakfast cereals, which made it impossible to read the actual content without skimming past them. You couldn't pitch an idea like Lackadaisy (Prohibition-era gangster drama in monochrome sepia with cat people) to someone like Marvel or DC and expect it to fly, and even if you were accepted you wouldn't be getting the same support as Superman or Spiderman. Has anyone else been going around and reading stuff you put off for a long time?
>>2832 I saw some of the teasers. They look surprisingly good. I’m cautiously hopeful.
>>2833 Yeah, the only thing I don't like is that one of the French characters is voiced by a negress and doesn't speak with the type of accent that her phonetically written accent would imply.
>>2837 Frenchfag here. If only you knew how bad things really are. Due to our colonial history and thanks to the francophony we have a lot of Africans here. And as we say, due to le Droit de l'Homme and le Valeurs de la République, everybody in the world is french by default. So in a certain way, having french characters whose voice sounds niggerish makes perfct sense. You haven't idea how many the french people love the niggers.
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>>2839 I know there are a fair number of Francophone Africans thanks to the colonial history of the nation and its proximity to Africa, but this is a Francophone in America. It's far more likely that she'd be white, either by being French or by being Cajun. The accent makes this even more clear: they don't seem to talk with any kind of pure French accent; I'm pretty sure it's meant to be Cajun French. >everybody in the world is french by default Pretty based.
>>2893 >I'm pretty sure it's meant to be Cajun French. I mean yeah, obviously. And cajun's are mostly black. The New Orleans stereotype is black-french, how can you be confused or shocked by this? If the character is being voiced by a black-french american nigger then it's literally perfect casting.
>>2900 I've only ever seen white Cajuns in media and I hate niggers.
>>2900 Aren't you confusing Cajuns with "Creoles of color"?
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It's pseudo-retro and only coincidentally furry, but this little demo in SmileBASIC by Japanese fursona-having kemono fan Dr. Arawashi (ドクター荒鷲) reminded me of this thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLBu5Glz484
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>>1092 >>1206 >Very strong "Slayers"-era influence in this part of her work! I was recently reading through Lackadaisy and decided to follow one of the old links on the site to www.foxprints.com, her defunct but intact personal website. The site is so out of date that clicking on the Tracy section and navigating to the Art Gallery gives you the raw file tree in your browser, but you can still get to the HTML pages for each work easily enough. >https://foxprints.com/tracy/gallery/furry/lnsang.html The cover for Sanguine's Ironclaw RPG book. They commissioned this from me a few years back...I really don't like anime much...but they requested that it look like you know who and whatsherface from that show--so if you feel like writing me some hate mail about it, save your energy and do something more constructive with it. >I think the only reason I put this up is from pure spite for the people who've flamed me for this image. Go complain at someone who draws fan art all day an leave me alone. At least I had a reason for doing this...money! Apparently the people at Sanguine are the furry weebs and she was just a hapless instrument of their strange crossover ideas.
Someone on another furry board mentioned an early 90s website dedicated to "animal men" predating the modern furry fandom. I'm curious if anyone knows what it was. (I doubt there were a lot of competitors in the early days of the internet.) I love digging through posts on old forums.
>>3275 Does that mean the "animal men" existed before the '70s and '80s when the furry culture started to take shape?
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>>3249 Well I never. Looking at the rest of the pages under https://foxprints.com/tracy/gallery/furry/ it seems that her actual, non-aping-Slayers-on-instruction work is much closer to her current style. Still has traces of how-to-draw to it, but that's completely understandable and not to be taken as negative criticism of an artist doing what's necessary to develop. That'll teach us to post without a full literature review.
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>>3276 Of course. Taken expansively, anthropomorphic animals have appeared in human culture for years untold: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_animals_in_fiction First and second pics related are from the 13th and 14th centuries, the former from a manuscript of the talking-animal collection Roman de Renart and the latter being marginalia from a prayer book. Funny Animals likewise appeared very early in the history of animation. 1914's Gertie might be pushing the definition too much, but Felix the Cat appeared in 1919, albeit only doing "man things" occasionally and walking on four legs otherwise, but the more he appeared the more bipedal he got. Plenty for the motivated researcher to pull, certainly.
>>2833 The finished animation forgot what it was supposed to be, IMO - although it was very pretty, it was an expensive example of what happens when a comic sucks storyboards into its orbit and an animation director can't overcome illustration. Which is a shame, because there was plenty of very good material there if only they'd been able to thresh it out of all the work they didn't have to do! But as it was, it ended up feeling frustratingly limp.>>2833
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>>3278 I misinterpreted that and thought that "animal men" were some kind of proto-furry subculture, like maybe something that developed as a niche among early science fiction or fantasy fans. I remember reading on the Classic Horror Film Board about how autistic some Californian Dracula fan club got at some point during the midcentury period, so something as seemingly contemporary as a proto-furry group wouldn't really shock me. I'm not a furry, but a while ago I became fascinated with medieval marginalia and all the weirdness the illustrations would portray.
>>3280 1930s science fiction fandom was absolutely wild, drama and all, so I wouldn't be surprised if there was a brief sparking of focused interest in Animal Men, but someone truly dedicated would have to dredge for telltale signs in what survives of the many fanzines from the period, or find some waypoints from other reviews of furry history.
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>>3281 >1930s science fiction fandom was absolutely wild, drama and all Do you know of any good reading on the subject? I mainly know bits and pieces, like like how much of an autist Forrest J. Ackerman was. I remember when I started really getting into old sci-fi and fantasy movies as a teenager and being surprised he was still alive at that point. He also got Me Too'd a few years ago, and there are even worse allegations out there about him. I've heard of people finding him personally annoying (including big-name actors he'd encountered from what I recall), but I didn't know it went beyond people just thinking he was a sperg.
>>3282 I read through a wonderful book-length review of the period on some author's blog or the other where he went into multiple sources and picked apart what happened - which very much contradicted the official histories written by those who won and hauled themselves up into publishing thereby - but I've infuriatingly lost the link and thanks to the absolute uselessness of modern search cannot seem to find it again. I'll keep looking and will post it here if I find it. You can be sure I'll be saving my own copy if I do! The subsequent secret history of science fiction publishing through the 1960s-1990s especially is shot through with some truly shocking things but that's neither my own area of expertise nor what this thread's about, so I can only advise finding the wild Twitter/Fediverse autists who do specialize and asking them.
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>>3282 >>3283 Found it! The write-up I remembered was in five parts, under the name of The Last Fanatic by JD Cowan, which drew mainly on Sam Moskowitz's The Immortal Storm: A History of Science Fiction Fandom. Here are the links: https://wastelandandsky.blogspot.com/2022/01/the-last-fanatic-part-i-end-is-beginning.html https://wastelandandsky.blogspot.com/2022/01/the-last-fanatic-part-ii-long-way-down.html https://wastelandandsky.blogspot.com/2022/01/the-last-fanatic-part-iii-pit-of.html https://wastelandandsky.blogspot.com/2022/01/the-last-fanatic-part-iv-mutation-death.html https://wastelandandsky.blogspot.com/2022/02/the-last-fanatic-part-v-dead-endings.html I also found a 36MB PDF of The Immortal Storm trade paperback, previews via Google Books etc. being unavailable, and have uploaded it to Catbox here: https://files.catbox.moe/2cgv50.pdf Be forewarned that Cowan's write-up gets tediously ranty in places, but it is still a good skim through the highlights buried in Moskowitz's book and the supposed connections they have to what happened after that period and where we are today. My favorite drama story has to be where some of these New York-based science fiction youths of leisure (with no known occupation and plenty of money to spare during the height of the Great Depression, hm) showed up at the author's door at 5:45am, bearing the (false) news of the death of one William S. Sykora, a fellow fan, then sat in his house insulting him until dawn broke, whereupon they fucked off and left him to discover the hoax after he wrote a letter of condolence to the not-deceased's family. The story starts on page 140 of the book (p158 of the PDF) and there are further references to those "epic feuds" on the page of the not-deceased - https://fancyclopedia.org/William_S._Sykora - who himself was later reportedly "arrested, and released with a warning, in a charge involving a little girl", twice. Nothing to do with furries, animal men or otherwise, but it does give a feel for the period and a possible crevice in which one might search for proto-furry material.
>>3283 >>3285 Thanks a ton.
>>3280 >I'm not a furry, but Where have I heard that before? Kidding, kidding . . . I've never gotten into history much but medieval illustration is really neat. It's like a kind of European hieroglyphs that show a very different way of representing the world compared to the more famous stuff like Renaissance paintings and ancient sculpture. It looks so simple and often silly, but the amount of effort required to create a book prior to the printing press was absolutely staggering so I know it must have been planned very carefully. I can't say I've heard of any furry or furry-like fandom predating the late 20th century, but if there were to have been a group of weirdos who liked animal people women just a little more than they should have then it would have been SFF authors (back when science fiction and fantasy were both considered lame stuff for kids, and lumped together into the same genre). >>3285 This seems really cool. I may read it if I have the time.
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>>3290 That second one reminded me that I had these. Apologies for the tiny resolution.
>>3285 I finished up the first part on the night you posted this and am going to start the second pretty soon. Thanks again. >My favorite drama story has to be where some of these New York-based science fiction youths of leisure (with no known occupation and plenty of money to spare during the height of the Great Depression, hm) showed up at the author's door at 5:45am, bearing the (false) news of the death of one William S. Sykora, a fellow fan, then sat in his house insulting him until dawn broke, whereupon they fucked off and left him to discover the hoax after he wrote a letter of condolence to the not-deceased's family. The story starts on page 140 of the book (p158 of the PDF) and there are further references to those "epic feuds" on the page of the not-deceased - https://fancyclopedia.org/William_S._Sykora - who himself was later reportedly "arrested, and released with a warning, in a charge involving a little girl", twice. That comment about his arrest reminds me of the "worst allegations" I mentioned about Forrest J. Ackerman. I seem to recall a story from someone saying that he received unsolicited cheese pizza from him through the mail. I recall another account from someone (probably a different person) who claimed that he was given a tour of the Ackermansion and claimed to have momentarily seen a naked young boy who stayed out of sight. I think he also sent really angry hate mail to people he didn't like. In hindsight affable old Uncle Forry doesn't seem like such a great guy after all. >>3290 >It looks so simple and often silly, but the amount of effort required to create a book prior to the printing press was absolutely staggering so I know it must have been planned very carefully. The impression I get is that a lot of the goofier marginalia was basically visual shitposting by bored monks with extra space to fill, sometimes in a pretty literal way. I could be wrong though. >(back when science fiction and fantasy were both... lumped together into the same genre). Those were the days. >>3291 >Pal-ul-Don Nice. I actually own a vintage copy of Tarzan the Terrible. The Tarzan books generally don't interest me in comparison to the other Edgar Rice Burroughs series, but I liked the lost world setting of that one that's more comparable to one of the Pellucidar books.
>>3292 I meant to add that medieval manuscripts absolutely were time intensive to make though.

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