I propose that it is high time that the webring as we know it adapt if it wishes to see a future that isn't a slow, bleak, death march that can never be recovered from since we are well into this critical juncture. One must adapt, yet we are constantly in fear of adaptation as it brings the unknown, an uncertainty that what we know and love may just disappear. I propose an alternate interpretation based on my personal interactions within and outside the webring as a wandering imageboard nomad: Your childhood is dead. Everything you know and love has already dissipated into archival obscurity. Rejoice, for you now have the option to become your own man not tied and bound to the whims of anyone. As the Greek philosophers of the past had reasoned, you have actualized and are not bound by the whims of those who wish to control you. Do not fall for the chaotic memes of many bad actors in this newfound enlightenment. There are those who seek you harm, there are those who seek to control you, and no rules the likes of which many have tried to espouse after becoming drunk off this realization. I propose a new imageboard, or rather a new paradigm shift. I propose an adaptation that seeks to keep the spirit of anonymity and preserve anon's right to post loli cunny and say nigger without being beholden by the strict xenophobia of the webring or drowning in an ocean of cancerous piss the likes of 4chan. A board that is driven by tbe ideals of an old, forgotten time but that is willing to put the webring's policies where their json file is by being radically different. Rules, but no rulers. I propose a new charter to guide a new imageboard based on the following principles as old as human civilization itself: 1) A clean slate that is not subject to the hearsay, prejudices, and superstitions that stifle the modern webring. An entirely new imageboard that respects the old as a dead civilization while carving out a new existence that recruits by word-of-mouth from any and all websites without prejudice, be they 4chan, Meguca, the webring, the alt-webring, standalone websites, or even social media. Let anons stand on the content of their character and their ability to follow the website's charter and ideals, not on their history. A leviathan that grows both naturally from within and artificially from bad actors who are scoffed and laughed at as everyone else has already pissed on that street corner. A platform that is much like the Ellis Island of America. Civic pride in one's culture without xenophobia, if you will. 2) A platform in which advertising from outside and from within is mutual, protected, and guaranteed in at least one thread present on every board. 3) A platform where all boards on it are subject to the same global charter on user treatment and moderation transparency that set an even playing field, but that allows autonomy so long as this global charter, which shall be a living document, is abided by. 4) A platform in which a board owner council consisting of equals may have veto power to accepting new boards, but also the power to veto another's veto. 5) A platform in which no board owner's coveted position is sacred, and for which this veto power may never be used to stifle or snuff out competition. 6) A platform in which all board owners are first among equals and have an ethical duty to globally moderate one another and take part in the FULL charter in order to secure their own presence on the platform, to encourage open dialogue where there is currently only censorship. 7) A platform that seeks to actively compete with every member of the webring, as a member of the webring, to encourage growth amongst one another even if it may kill or injure those who have dug their heels in waiting for their slow demise. 8) A platform that embodies being a gentlemen's club and seeing themselves as associates, even friends in friendly competition with one another rather than as enemies working together against a mutual threat. 9) A platform that discourages bunkers and dead boards. All boards will be required to show they are being meaningfully used (even if just by two or three people) in order to justify their existence. Quotas, but in a meaningful and involved way that understands nuance. 10) A platform that does not seek to become the next 8chan and that does not seek growth for the sake of growth, but who's ideals will allow the ability to grow if users want it enough.

A project that might be likened to the phrase "globalism without globalists," a Hungary to the European Union, I am looking into whether there are any left who would be interested in this radically different, very ideologically driven approach to an imageboard. Many will complain endlessly that the old guard must remain resolute, or that what I'm suggesting is anarchy (I fundamentally disagree with this notion), but I'm not interested any more in watching a slowly dying relic. That's what the webring is, is a slowly dying relic cobbled together. Refugees (the webring) who formed a culture based on the mockery culture (8chan) of the country they originally fled from (4chan). You can continue this death march, or together we can respect what once was while seeking to form a new order based on new principles. I don't mind accepting the death of imageboards if that is our fate. I'm scared, terrified at what I'm suggesting, but I've witnessed great deaths of organizations that seemed resolute and great comebacks from those that seemed already gone. I can't promise it will be good, I know there will be hiccups along the way, those hurt, and those who feel like this radical new approach ruined everything. This new approach could even be a death blow to the webring or completely irrelevant instead of a revitalization since what I propose is a shaky future that preserves culture but not mentality, but I would still like to say that at least we tried. If you are in any way interested in this new paradigm, I need anon's answer and I need it soon. I'm experimenting offline on a burner laptop right now with the intention of buying a VPS. I plan to buy the domain next week if I have anons interested, but I am not a CompSci guy. My skills are with material tools and concepts, not with running a website. I am not a /tech/ wizard and I despise Linux despite knowing the basics, so this is an uphill battle brought on by necessity. In my opinion the webring won't be salvageable in another eight months. I need to know if anon is interested even if he disagrees with me, or what anon's demands would be to use such a website, or if he has any ideals he wants to tack on. I want feedback so I can decide whether investing time into learning these systems or not is even worth it.

cool

I bothered to skim through your TLDR and my reaction is the following: 1. Your idea is too complex. 2. You don't seem to have the skillset required to build said system. 3. The only way to get others to do things for you is by giving them something they want in return. Good luck anon and if it ever pans out I'll check it out.

It sounds like you're thinking way too hard, and people who think too hard tend to become annoying moderators who simultaneously moderate too much and too little. Or to put it another way, moderators who moderate the wrong things because they try to ban malicious intent but insist on writing it down as objective definitions of things someone might do. And when you ban someone for a thing they do, that does not account the intent behind why they did it. It's akin to having a law that says "don't kill anyone", and then imprisoning someone for killing an armed burglar that broke into their house and threatened their family. You can come up with more situations in which it's ok to kill someone, but a malicious person can always come up with new ways to get around the law if it does not account for intent, i.e. WHY did you kill someone? If you go into the webring then you're inevitably including all the dead boards in the webring and all the destructive goon faggots that reside within. You're also implying some kind of new-4chan which is returning to a single point of failure the same way markchan does by being wannabe-8chan, if I can help it I will never want to return to a place where a single admin has power over everyone's data and future, and as soon as he decides to become a tranny or call it quits then everyone will be fucked. I definitely agree that the webring is doing a lot of things wrong. But my preferred way to fix it would be to lead by example, not to compete with every board in it. The two things I think the webring is doing wrong is moderation and user-attitude. User-attitude is very hard to fix without a change in the moderation style and rules. Moderation is easy to change but it's difficult to fix because it requires a mod who has a very good eye for malicious intent. The way I would try 'leading by example' is by creating some boards with a good moderation style. In my eye, imageboards don't really need rules besides 2: don't post in a malicious way, and take it easy. There's a lot of people now who are intentionally trying to stir shit and cause drama and attack other people in the board for their opinions or things they talk about, the reason they do that doesn't matter because the effect is the same. Those are the malicious posters. Some memes like soyjaks are specifically designed to attack someone else, they can be used in a non-malicious way by mocking SJW retardation or something, but most commonly they're used to attack other people in the imageboard. Due to people's defensive nature against perceived boogiemen like 4chan/reddit, many people have lost the ability to take it easy, they take everything too personally and get immediately heated up when they see certain things like pepes. You don't even need to approve pepes, you could just say "don't do that" when someone posts one, but instead of saying "don't do that" and moving on, people get really angry and start screeching about 4chan and posting smug faces and derail entire threads for it. And since most often wojaks and pepes are posted by malicious posters, the person who posted it will then start screeching back in an obnoxious manner to intentionally stir the flames. The goal of this focus in moderation is not because I think allowing soyjaks will save the webring, it doesn't even have anything to do with wojaks at all, as much as the people who can't take it easy would claim it is. The goal is simply to make people relaxed and feel free about posting again, like they don't need to double-check everything they say and post and think about just in case it might be perceived as cuckchan, get banned for using some wrong word or image, or have their thread deleted for not being a certified high quality thread. So by 'good moderation style' I mean detecting and banning malicious posters, and encouraging people to take it easy. You can't simply do that, you need to make it very clear to the users that this is how the board works, because otherwise they'll expect the same thing they're used to. Some people will reject it and call it a cuckchan board and leave, but I think they would come to change their minds after a while.

I'm the Founder and BO of /robowaifu/. One thing I've tried to do there is maintain an open and inviting culture for anons to brainstorm together and talk about building the coming age of robowaifus together. I personally hate moderation in general, having cut my teeth as a pissant newfag back on 4/b around 2010 or so. What I've learned in the nearly 5 years of the board is that you simply have to have moderation of some kind if you want a board to survive. Same as with a town. You have to have the sheriff, or the townsfolk will be severely abused by bad guys. Because of the specific type of threats against what we're promoting, I've set a pretty strong agenda against the 2 sets of primary purveyors of 'malicious intent' (feminists and literal faggots) against robowaifus and their creators, but tried to be pretty lax and accommodating otherwise. I know I've offended some legitimate anons by being overly picky in this regard, and I regret that, but I think it's simply unavoidable to do that if you actually care about your board. So, having said all that, I would say that we've always welcomed 'competition' and I've openly advocated for a wide variety of other platforms promoting robowaifus here there and everywhere. I've openly supported the occasions where I've seen it attempted, and generally encourage the conversation wherever it pops up on other boards. We've even made small attempts at shilling /robowaifu/ , not for 'building a little kingdom' out of it, but simply to bring more consciousness to anons everywhere about the ideas there. I don't have any problems with anyone promoting the ideas literally anywhere, even squarely in the midst of our enemies' camps, and I welcome all comers who want to hate on it. Because I really dislike deleting content if I feel it has even the slightest redeeming qualities, I've adopted a protocol of having a shitposting-containment thread, and simply shoving not-entirely-evil-but-not-really-very-helpful-to-the-topic-at-hand 'discussions' there. As to the OP's poll about interest, I wish him Godspeed on it. I don't agree with everything you've said ITT, but neither do I disagree. I hope you can pull it off. While I personally am quite unlikely to personally get involved there, I can think of at least one need vaguely related to our board that would probably be a good new board to have: /robohusbando/ There have been encouragement regarding this topic by literal faggots and other degenerates on our board, and even some females might like such a board. If someone wants to start a board like that with honest technical discussions on the topics (and doesn't make me absolutely puke from excessively-sexualized NSFW degeneracy) I'll even link to it on our own boards 'friends listing' there. I hope that helps OP, I hope you can pull your idea off successfully.

>>15031 >neither do I disagree on everything*

good luck with the post quotas lmao just make the site and see if it sticks probably figure out that living document thing first though and get it written in its entirety

don't think, feel

>>15025 >4chan is controlled by the enemy. 4chan is alive and (relatively) well, still producing more OC every day than the entirety of the webring produces in a year. So far, all attempts to compete with 4chan have chosen to ignore this and instead believed that 4chan was going to inevitably collapse in the immediate future: all such attempts have resulted in failure.

I don't think imageboards have a choice but to start opening up to outsiders to a certain extent. I hate to say it given how awful newfags tend to be, but imageboards really aren't attracting enough new users to sustain themselves. Another thing I'm really concerned about it is shit-stirring feds and how vulnerable imageboards are given the current Internet infrastructure and the hostility of business interests and the government to boards not under their control. If there's any hope for a free Internet, I think it's going to come from Urbit or a similar project. It would lack the hosting problems and privacy issues of the current Internet. Unfortunately, it's not quite there yet and would need new board software. And while the planet-based system gives users skin in the game and cuts down on spam, I don't know what it would do about cheese pizza and other illegal content given the whole peer-to-peer aspect of it. Also, the prices of planets are rising in a way that would lock out a lot of potential users. I'm not that tech savvy and really don't know what what the solution could be.

Yeah sure, other than the second rule (and "post quotas") i can get behind most rules because i find them compatible with what i think, a clean slate is needed indeed where mods and BOs are open enough to let their actions be understandable. Here in anon.cafe there has been some hints of nobody looking at some other's origin site or at least mentioning they should reserve that info, so i think a voluntary blind eye to it can and has been done, but the "xenophobic against sites" will always exist as it someone will spout something silly sooner or later. I "control" two dead boards, one which is arguably the only one in its specific topic and general enough to count as legacy (although good to great discussion of said topic is easily found on other WR boards too) so i can "get behind" the idea but cannot guarantee anyone moving because we are just a handful and some are content enough in those other boards. I usually lurk often so cleaning stuff from the overboard should be trivial enough if there's someone around at every hour. Yeah you have someone here interested, but i think many will be interested in knowing which imageboard system will you use, from my part as long as i can change CSS and have basic mod tools i am okay. Your biggest challenge is not technical in my opinion, some anon can give a hand, even admins and with money you can look for specialized hand... the biggest problem is finding a bunch of integral, mentally-stable and overall decent human beings to manage rules #3, #4, #5, #6 and #8. A group checking who can get in and who should get out is easy enough but getting the group to begin with and to have them act reasonably is hard, you will need a good personal, probably private chatting test to weed out shills, undercover sjw's and other assorted shitbags. I can't guarantee i am a good person but i know mostly when to shut the hell up and stop posting to avoid spastic drama so there's that.

>>15035 >still producing more OC every day Posting wojacks is not OC, just like advice dogs and their variations weren't either. If you meant something else then i think it's telling we haven't seen it taking into account many on tvch are unashamed crossposters.

>>15038 Posting anime screencaps is not OC either.

>1) A clean slate that is not subject to the hearsay, prejudices, and superstitions that stifle the modern webring. An entirely new imageboard that respects the old as a dead civilization while carving out a new existence that recruits by word-of-mouth from any and all websites without prejudice What would you call this new clean slate imageboard? What reason would new users have for going on it? >2) A platform in which advertising from outside and from within is mutual, protected, and guaranteed in at least one thread present on every board So you get users in and they advertize their own sites which then redirects users away? >3) A platform where all boards on it are subject to the same global charter on user treatment and moderation transparency that set an even playing field, but that allows autonomy so long as this global charter, which shall be a living document, is abided by. So by living document does that mean its continually changing and everyone has to be checking on it everytime they open the site? >4) A platform in which a board owner council consisting of equals may have veto power to accepting new boards, but also the power to veto another's veto Some kinda united federation of boards? >5) A platform in which no board owner's coveted position is sacred, and for which this veto power may never be used to stifle or snuff out competition Board cartel prevention? >6) A platform in which all board owners are first among equals and have an ethical duty to globally moderate one another and take part in the FULL charter in order to secure their own presence on the platform, to encourage open dialogue where there is currently only censorship Just because a board owner is a good board owner, doesn't make said board owner a good global moderator >7) A platform that seeks to actively compete with every member of the webring, as a member of the webring How will the rest of the webring respond? How would you respond? >8) A platform that embodies being a gentlemen's club and seeing themselves as associates, even friends in friendly competition with one another rather than as enemies working together against a mutual threat Elite secret club? Associates in friendly competition part seems good >9) A platform that discourages bunkers and dead boards. All boards will be required to show they are being meaningfully used (even if just by two or three people) in order to justify their existence. Quotas, but in a meaningful and involved way that understands nuance So boards that have "run their course" will be deleted? What kinda Quotas I wonder >10) A platform that does not seek to become the next 8chan and that does not seek growth for the sake of growth, but who's ideals will allow the ability to grow if users want it enough. So it'll be central only as much as the users want? The majority might be social site users if its users are from any and all websites Just responding on the points helps clarify some things

>>15036 >implying everyone wasn't an outsider and a newfag once >implying fedposting is a problem once you ban political discussion of all kinds >implying Urbit is anything but a scam from know grifter Yarvin >>15038 >DUDE LOOK AT ALL THE SHIT Yes, 90% of everything is shit, everybody noticed a long time ago. If you look only at the wojak spam you miss out on stuff like Project Wingman, Snoot Game, all the Abbystrong edits, the storytimes of pain, 1d4chan, the trove, the myriads of resources and OCfaggotry archived across hundreds of generals... Meanwhile the biggest OCs to come out of 8chan are a furry mascot, a mediocre top down shooter, and a now-defunct site to share patreon leaks.

>>15042 >implying everyone wasn't an outsider and a newfag once Sure, but when there are too many pouring in at once they're not under as much pressure to shape up and have less incentive to clean up their act. >implying fedposting is a problem once you ban political discussion of all kinds The government spying on people is a problem all the time, and they also seem to be petty enough to target anyone who doesn't buy into what they're pushing. "No politics" is pure idealism considering that everything is considered political nowadays. >implying Urbit is anything but a scam from know grifter Yarvin Time will tell, but something similar is going to have to be absolutely necessary at some point unless you want the Internet to be gatekept by hostile companies and governments.

>>15036 Just be selective of who you invite, tell people to always contribute, and you should be good

>>15043 >newfags getting better via peer pressure You can't bully newfags into doing things a certain way, you have to lure them into it. Anons don't make screencaps because they're told to, they do it because they know threads 404 yet they want to preserve something anyways. >no politics being pure idealism It was the norm less than a decade ago. It stopped being the norm because attention whoring started to be rewarded across the whole net, and politics is one of the easier topics to attention whore with. Make a site where attention whoring doesn't work (anonymous imageboard gets half of the way there, the other half is trickier), and you're set. >urbit being useful in any way Internet relies on physical infrastructure, you're at the mercy of companies and governments anyways because they control that physical infrastructure. Anything Urbit does on top of the infrastructure, TOR does better: you don't need a cult-tier OS and a crypto pyramid scheme for anonymous hosting and browsing. If you want to bypass the infrastructure, you need to get into meshnets n shiet: again, stuff that benefits in no way from Urbit. Also, ultimately you'll always be at the mercy of some infrastructure, because routing is a bitch.

>>15042 Oh, an actual crossposter. Talking that the OC from a small imageboard is obscure and nobody knows it is pure faggotry, also your OC is i suppose merely products from people who are by chance also anons, of course i could be wrong so let's take a look: >Project Wingman, Snoot Game, all the Abbystrong edits, the storytimes of pain, 1d4chan, the trove, the myriads of resources I don't know a single one of those and about "the myriads of resources" you can find the same in some generals around here. I am not going to tell to kill yourself, i will just tell you to be modest and understand this is not a thousand-user place, we are at most 30 constant anons here. >>15045 >You can't bully newfags into doing things a certain way Wrong, experience already showed us that many shaped up after a while with /b/ being the "boot camp", there's a reason many anons back then behaved very similar to one another. But we are talking 10 years ago so perhaps nowadays the massive amount of tourists/newcomers will shit any place and luring them into anything is only going to make you having groundhog days. >It was the norm less than a decade ago. Wrong, every board had its political play even back in the day, the one that had the less amounts of it that i remember using was /mu/ and don't get me started with the "indie=commie" threads.

>>15046 >I don't know what 1d4chan is >also bullying newfags works Interesting, tell me more.

>>15047 >Tell me more about a thing you don't know wat >also bullying newfags works It does and most anons here will agree, please refute it without resorting to massive influx of newfags (not our case here) or without saying you haven't seen it in any board (thus proving you are a newfag) Still, these do not have much to do with the topic at hand so i will try to make it related: In any case OP created the site and a group of BOs/mods appeared, do you think the userbase would increase so much as to water down the webring "natives"? we are just a few, overall perhaps less a 100 without counting the /v/ goons, but do you think another 100 would come out of nowhere in a single day? if we are lucky we will get 5 or 10 a week unless someone bombs a van.

>>15048 Let me spell it out for you, as you're clearly not old enough to recognize the image macro: you are a newfag, you don't know shit about how imageboards work or why them leading to the creation of an independent OC archival site is a big deal, and all the bullying you received didn't help you one bit.

>>15049 Now let me spell out for you: I don't look for memes nor do i need to have a conversation using them, you are an obvious post-2008 newfag (or post-2016 newfag in terms of 8chan timeline) who never saw how shit worked, you also don't quite understand how an OC archival site is contradictory to the temporal nature of an imageboard and to top it all off you are also clearly a nigger-brained fool to think you, or someone in your same spot, have turned out well in terms of lurking when you have come into this thread, without having lurked the few posts there's on the site to gauge how's the behavior, and act pompously like you know how things work when the only thing you've seen are literal 300+ PPH boards in containment sites which are in no way or form comparable to how a slow niche imageboard works. Now, having said this, please proceed to acquire rope and kill yourself in your front-yard tree so all your ghetto street can feel relieved about your future absence.

>>15043 >Time will tell, but something similar is going to have to be absolutely necessary at some point unless you want the Internet to be gatekept by hostile companies and governments. /thread.

>>15045 >Also, ultimately you'll always be at the mercy of some infrastructure, because routing is a bitch. At an even more fundamental level, electricity itself. While we'll all certainly have more immediate problems on our hands once the globalist kikes/Marxists literally pull the plug on us all, still, comms will be a near-the-top-of-the-list agenda item. Anons expertise with encrypted, low-bandwidth, shortwave and other RF spectrum technologies will be vital to bootstrapping a People's Global Meshnet or similar. But power itself is the fundamental prereq for such a thing.

>>15050 >actually I magically blank out meme pics as soon as they enter my sight >this is why I can't recognize an overt insult that has been popular for half a decade >I'm totally not a newfag, I swear >look, I say nigger nigger nigger, that's what imageboards are about! Lol

>>15053 Thank you for proving my point

The project is currently off. After gathering responses, I believe that the time for such a website passed about a year ago and that the current environment is not conducive to what I could consider my "end" objectives. As it stands I was first and foremost looking to create a new Japanology board free of the current restrictions of the two most prevalent webring options, but I believe interest has leaned away from "a new /a/" and more towards "not smug" or "not PLW." Trying to not be something is not the culture I seek, and while fracturing a userbase further would surely accelerate what I consider an ongoing issue, it would ultimately not bear the sort of fruit I aim for and would attract the malicious sorts of anons I don't want rather than the creative freedom for OC to flourish that I do want. I will continue exploring the options available, but it's not worth the time, effort, doxxing, etc. that would inevitably take place given the current cultural climate. There is definitely an interest in something new, but it's not the sort of interest I'm looking for. Still, I promised an anon I would respond on Wednesday/Thursday so in spite of that I will address anon's concerns. >>15030 >moderators who moderate the wrong things because they try to ban malicious intent but insist on writing it down as objective definitions of things someone might do. I tend to be fairly fluid with moderation to attack intent over form, but I do like to have as objective of a system as possible since I do not trust others easily, nor expect others to have the same standards as me. >You're also implying some kind of new-4chan which is returning to a single point of failure the same way markchan does by being wannabe-8chan I didn't think I was implying something like that. Perhaps it could be interpreted as a "new /b/" in the sense that /b/ was largely a point of entry for many people into other parts of the website, and similarly I was envisioning a website that acted as an Ellis island to pull folks into the webring as a whole. I planned to explicitly host a page (with pictures) dedicated to teaching anons how to start their own imageboard from scratch. >2: don't post in a malicious way, and take it easy. I fundamentally disagree with your second rule and would replace it with "have fun" since that phrase has been disgustingly twisted to fit the malicious demands of others. I'd also addlurk more, but I don't think we're in conflict on this point though. At least not directly. >>15031 >What I've learned in the nearly 5 years of the board is that you simply have to have moderation of some kind if you want a board to survive. Same as with a town. You have to have the sheriff, or the townsfolk will be severely abused by bad guys. As someone who has moderated over the last 5-6ish years as well not saying where since I still moderate for a couple boards and don't want this pet project tied to them, I've learned almost the opposite. You need law and order of some kind in the sense that someone must have the power to shoot the criminal in the face since the criminal of the internet can't be subjected to a lynching the way a small town or large city can (outside of doxxing, which the current userbase of the webring is not inclined to do properly), but I see moderation as equivalent to the sheriff that inevitably and openly abuses his authority, and thus by default must be shat on at every turn to prevent him from ever growing an ego. And thank you for your service with /robowaifu/ as of this time. >>15033 If I come back to this, form fit and function comes before aesthetic, so getting the website secured and inducted would have to come before fleshing out that living document. The basic idea is far fewer words than the OP though. Like sub-1000. >>15036 Allegedly from the recent Smug leaks there was some sort of IPFS project in the works but I've yet to hear anything about that. >>15040 >So you get users in and they advertize their own sites which then redirects users away? The word mutual has important meaning behind it. >Constantly checking That's what announcements are for. This was solved before the webring even existed. To all the other points and to everyone else, I did read through your posts and appreciate your responses, but I would be here all day if I responded to everyone and I still have other hobbies so I think this is sufficient for now.

https://allchans.org/ doesn't have them all. I'm trying to make a complete masterlist of all the anonymous imageboards.

>>15985 https://github.com/ccd0/imageboards.json This might help you out.

>>15985 How is it going? >>15989 Is this the most up to date source for imageboards? I have been looking for a timely one, unfortunately I haven't found one yet.