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Third-world armies Strelok 08/28/2020 (Fri) 05:49:58 No.5260
What should be the strategy for militaries that don't have big budgets to spend?
>>5260 Most third world militaries are surprisingly efficient for what they are designed to do. They are mainly there to prevent rebel uprisings. If we are talking about invading other countries and such, not a chance. If we are talking about spicshit militaries, I don't even know why they exist honestly, the governments are run by corrupt fucks and their countries cannot be saved. Maybe its just a way of state employment such as the modern SADF.
>If we are talking about invading other countries and such, not a chance. Even other third world countries? America is second, not third, so inb4
>>5260 Literally just discipline. More spending on equipment is just gonna be hoarded by corrupt officers waiting to pull a coup. If you aren't going to invade anyone you don't need excess material, if you're going to be invaded you're going to need your army and populace to stand and not dissolve. >>5263 This.
>>5260 Just stop pretending you're a modern country and officially adapt feudalism. Including local warlord-led armies and, in time of war, levy troops drafted from the local child population. You then keep power by helpfully centralizing armored formations and the airforce, due to the complicated logistics involved. Local warlords only get infantry and APCs and no defensive positions along internal borders. Levy -> More troops than other nations. Not really trained, but it's not like the actual military is that well-trained either. Fewer permanent soldiers, just enough to man some fortified positions here and there -> Less expenditures Local leadership and laws-> Less coups, as long as you don't get too involved and concentrate on things that concern the entire country
>>5269 Levy requires nationalism though, and most of these countries are full of different warring tribes.
>>5270 That's why I emphasized local leadership. If all the average guy comes in contact with is his own tribal leader, and the tribal leader is kept in check by the president-royal by a combination of force (tanks, APC) and lavish gifts (financed through a tax paid by the population but collected through the local lord alongside his own tax), then there is peace. Historically, there wasn't a whole lot of nationalism in your average medieval peasant. It worked fine.
>>5271 I had mistook your statement for mass levy or conscription, which ended up giving revolutionary France significantly more manpower than the monarchies of Europe but requires an advanced centralized society in the first place. Feudal levy is fine since they are too crap to maintain a professional army anyway and you can't jump the gun from 1100 to 2000 in terms of organizational development.
>>5269 That sounds like Ethiopia before the commies ruined it. And as the Italians learned it, this system can be surprisingly effective.
>>5277 Those are Somalis, not Ethiopians.
>>5265 Any other third world nation you invade will inevitably be a client state of a first or second world nation that will go world police on your ass or get the U.N. to do it for them.
>>5303 Who even is first-world in 2020?
>>5306 Japan, at least for a bit longer
>>5306 Sweden.
The important thing for armies is financial power, technological advancements (the correct kind, not F-35 shit), or manpower. If your budget is small and your technology is meh, you either have to have tactical genius leading your forces or you have to be stealthy. Obviously the correct answer is to throw the military budget out the window, issue a levy, and train every man, woman, and child 7 or older how to use a firearm/make sure every house has a rifle. A trained and armed population is more secure than a military at preventing permanent invasion, even if you don't happen to stay in power.
>>5322 Obviously with this comes strong self-defense protections and ideally making duels and honor killings legal.
>>5271 Yep. The more decentralized you can make an institution while keeping yourself at the top, the more profit there is to be made/power to be held. This is why most organized crime tends to be exceptionally bottom-up structures given the fact that they're only ruled by a select few. You might want (not need but want) a more centralized financial base/power base to invest in a more trained military for operations into neighbors (bread and circuses), but the more you rely on your local warlords or community leaders to handle local issues while only fulfilling the bare minimum of your end of the contract (namely, providing them protection), most folks don't mind paying a more powerful group to deal with invaders and trouble makers while otherwise being left to their own devices. Plus you can just turn any rebellious elements into sex slaves/soylent green for the rest of the population and no one (who matters) will complain.
>>5306 Russia is Upper Volta with atomic ramjets now so I'm not sure where they fall on the spectrum.
>>5306 India they became a superpower this year.
>>5263 >If we are talking about invading other countries and such, not a chance. Tell that to Rwanda, they had a very effective and profitable time invading the Congo back in the 70's/80's. Basically an African Prussia.
I have been thinking about the stuff down in South Africa recently. The Suidlanders is an Afrikaner Civil Defense organization. They have a three part plan in the event of national anarchy: Phase one, local evacuations from the cities and neighborhoods; Phase Two- Regional Evacuations; and lastly Phase Three- National Evacuation to a defense point some where in the arid semi-desert of the Northern Cape. All though this a non-state actor it has a very well defined paradigm to which worker with and very limited budget to achieve it. Will post more on this later, as I have many scattered thoughts
>>8034 I think it is an ultimately futile resistance. I can't think of a single state that would be pro-white in africa cause we wuz kings. Namibia used to be part of SA, Botswana isn't big enough to matter, occupied Rhodesia is a shithole, Mozambique is fighting muh moderate headchoppers.
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>Oh boy! A thread about the opinions of /k/ommandos on how a poor country should organise it's military! Can't wait to read about effective budget weapons, technology and tactics! <Thread devolves into a "dude feudalism lmao!" right from the start All I wanted was a serious thread
>>5325 >Plus you can just turn any rebellious elements into sex slaves/soylent green for the rest of the population and no one (who matters) will complain. someone post that podcast talking about how Israel broadcast porn across Palestinian TV synced up to all those teenagers twerking
>>8042 Be the change you want to see! So, do you have an idea that is superior to technicals? And if no, then what kind of technicals would you want for your force?
nation defense through guerilla warfare so the nation with limited budget have an army that specialized in guerilla warfare its proved to be hard to crack (e.g. afghan, iraq, etc)
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>>8034 >On the Utilization of Drones I have heard that South Africa unlike Angola, the Congo and Zimbabwe doesn’t have adequate ‘bush’ for black terrorists to conduct guerrilla operations from. The bush in these countries was used to its full advantage, the rebels concealed their movement through it, and used it to launch ambushes or mine on the roads. Because South Africa has plains and grasslands, not bush; Drones might be very useful to spotting hostile mobs and potential ambushes along evacuation routes. Furthermore, I think drones could be used to great effect in each phase of the Plan. https://suidlanders.org/our-emergency-plan/ If each local group had a single multi-rotor drone- they could provide applicable use in local situation to get away from the mob, town, city or farm and to the rally point. As the plan is carried out and personnel further consolidates. Multi-rotor drones could be used for maintaining around-the-clock situational awareness or in-depth tactical recon. Fixed wing drones can provide a more operational role for recon. Ideally there would be one per regional group. This is relatively cheap compared to state actors X40 multi-rotor drones would be a total of 200K X5 Fixed wing drones would be a total of 125K I would say this would come out a grand total of about 300K with an additional 23% for unexpected costs, training and maintenance. I see three problems with this: >limits in loiterer time, range and payloads While there is a wide array of commercial quadcopters made for filming and observation in real time, there are made for short periods of use. From my experience with quadcopters, most have very short battery life- less than two hours of constant use is expected. Plane-like drones, on the other hand, by design are made for slow, high altitude, long term loitering, but they seem to be less commercially available. >Cost These commercial drones are still quite expensive especially in consideration of currency exchange rates. No doubt with the kind of stuff you plan to be utilizing these for you would need the high-end stuff. A lot of the cheaper units are novel toys for kids and beginner hobbyists or made with cheap materials that are not robust or usable for my proposed use. An affordable professional fixed-wing model will most likely cost from 4,000 to 25,000 USD. http://store.appliedaeronautics.com/ These seems inline with others price points. Compare this with the ‘go to’ of quadcopter drones with listings from $1,500 to 5,600 USD. https://store.dji.com/ >Jammers Lastly as I have seen, military grade radio and cellphone jammers have been used in farm attacks. These put simply could result in the loss of the drone or at least could render useless and grounded. This is most serious.
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>>8065 Jammers can effectively be ignored with Physics Student-tier gyroscopes (they won't trasmit but they can stay in the air or return to base where data can be processed) for about $500/unit. Kalishnikov is producing third world drones (rotor-based) with this feature for about $10K/unit. Fixed drones only really shine in open water areas since the only benefit of them over the rotor style is stabilization for looking at minute details in high movement environments. Otherwise rotor style is better for land use due to maneuverability at comparable costs. Fixed wing is only viable on land at heights that are too expensive for third world militaries to bother with.
By "at heights" I mean either so low to the ground everyone can take pot shots at them, or so high in the air that you need special subsystems that only first world countries can reasonably afford if it goes down for any reason. Figured I should specify. Also I wouldn't necessarily downplay cheaper consumer-grade drones. You could have Amazon-sized drones carrying payloads to take out small recon groups or high value targets at about the same price as to train and outfit 2-4 soldiers and the even cheaper models are still useful for recon since activating jammers for every consumer drone (or shooting it down) is basically giving away your position/shooting yourself in the foot.
I should add that you can do the same thing with rovers on the ground for about $400 (the most expensive parts being the wheels and RC helicopter camera) with effective ranges out to 100 meters that you could equip with payloads as well. Sorry for triple posting.
>>8067 >gyroscopes I have no idea what you mean. If you could spoon feed me a little more so I can look into this, I would be grateful. As far as signal jamming goes, I have personally seen commercial drones after losing signal (not jammed) 'Return to Base' and another that Auto landed. I have heard I have heard of jammers making drones fall out the sky but I don't know enough to say that it is result of 'specialized jammers' or less sophisticated drones. >>8067 >At extreme low and high attitudes Again, I am new to the subject so I don't know what benefit one would gain at operating at low attitudes expect maybe avoiding radar. And I don't know the downsides of operating high attitude. I would assume you mean outside SAM or AA gun range. But that would mean you have bigger of problems of being targeted by the government. If Rhodesia is any measure, Blacks cannot operate or maintain their MANPADS correctly to shoot down helos with basic jerry-rigged countermeasures (that being a new paint job and exhaust redirection.) although that was 50 years ago. As far as small arms go, I do not think anyone would be able to shoot down a drone with any small arm besides a shotgun once it gets further up.
>>8074 >I have no idea what you mean. If you could spoon feed me a little more so I can look into this, I would be grateful. It's a tool that measures orientation and angular velocity. Long story short it's the thing inside your plane or tank cannon or missile that allows it to aim/maintain track of where it's at, at all times. More importantly higher-spec/more accurate (typically fiberoptic) gyroscopes allow you to use angular velocity with a little integration (the kind that can be done at the hardware electrical level, not even requiring software/smart electronics or even electronics at all if you're willing to sacrifice some precision) to measure exactly where you are (allegedly) in the air. Your phone even has one if you can rotate the screen, albeit a pretty shitty one. Basically it's the thing that allows you to navigate even if GPS and all other forms of communication are down, and typically it's the device used to self-correct in conjunction with GPS or whatever communicative system it happens to use. In things like missiles they're roughly 10% of the cost (the ones in a $115,000 50kg air-to-ground missile cost between $10,000-$30,000) since you don't want your missile to hit the wrong target if the enemy is using any sort of jamming technology (also because conventional navigational communications are impractical at those speeds). >I have heard of jammers making drones fall out the sky but I don't know enough to say that it is result of 'specialized jammers' or less sophisticated drones. They shouldn't do that unless it's either a crappy consumer-grade drone that's designed to just auto-land when it loses signal (since generally the goal of consumer-grade drones is to preserve them if signal is lost). If they just fall out of the sky, that's either shitty computing that shuts the drone off when it loses signal or an electrical subsystem attack (basically an EMP). >Again, I am new to the subject so I don't know what benefit one would gain at operating at low attitudes expect maybe avoiding radar. Wind-speeds at operating heights of "helicopter" style drones are typically much, much faster than wind-speeds on the ground. Fixed-wing drones have a very hard time dealing with those windspeeds without either severe loss of functionality or beefy (price-wise) upgrades that make them far too expensive to use at any height except ultra-high altitudes using ultralight designs. The main benefit of a fixed-wing drone is that because there's fewer moving parts and they rely on wind pressure/air currents to stay afloat, they tend to be very, very stabilized compared to a heli-drone. This makes them capable of acting as a fixed point to detect abnormal movement in a sea of movement (such as out over choppy waters where they're good for spotting submarines below the water's surface by interpreting differences in surface waves, or in crowded cities when looking for subtle signs of vehicles/firearms being used), but being fixed structures, they are less maneuverable when it comes to evading direct fire, much less so than an actual helicopter or fixed-wing plane. They can be useful at low altitudes if used en-masse, but doing so is expensive compared to using helicopter-style drones that might be heavier but are significantly cheaper due to not needing specialized parts to maintain navigation, altitude, or maneuverability. The only flip-side of this, is that fixed-wing drones typically require far less experience on the operator's part to operate successfully. >And I don't know the downsides of operating high attitude. Electronics need extra shielding at high altitudes from background radiation, and many materials act weird when at high altitudes. Additionally you need more sensitive gyroscopes, and if you're throwing all these expensive parts in you want to logically protect your assets which requires additional investment. I was more pointing out that because of wind speeds at mid-altitude requiring a beefier product and these more sensitive electronics needing extra shielding making them more expensive, typically it's preferable to just go with the helicopter models if moving out of rifle range unless dealing with ultra-high altitude drones meant strictly for surveillance or air-to-sea drones (which are also mainly used for surveillance).
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>>8077 >re drones falling out of the sky. Could be laser weapons. Soviets demonstrated in the 70s that you could melt the electronics of a plane/helo with in 7-12km effectively (even higher if it was airborne like the A60 complex) >high altitude Why not use vaccum tubes like the ruskies do to prevent solar radiation interference? Mig-31M is a good example, the only "semiconductors" are the ASEA radar.
>>5306 Has Switzerland fallen yet? They're still not EU and took in far less rapefugees than the surrounding countries.
>>9569 Still part of free travel area. The new hot saying in the area there is to refer to refugees as "black (arabs), blacker (Somali), and blacker (sub sarahara/ west africa)
If you're fighting in Africa, wouldn't paratroopers work best? It's what Rwanda did. I'd assume they'd also work in South America and other third world areas where tanks and such wouldn't work. I suppose you could attach a unit of drones to them too, though the drones could give away the presence of the paratroopers, and you'd have to take into account how you'd move them without giving your position away if you ever had to change your base of operations.
>>9588 >Niggers in an actual, proper, shooting stance Mind blowing.
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>>9589 Niggers from the Horn of Africa are at least one or two notches higher than other niggers. And that seems to include Basketball Americans.
>>9590 Aren´t Somalis absolute subhumans, even for nigger-tier?
>>9592 Only recently i think.
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>>8065 Same anon here, decided to write more on the subject. 1st paragraph is more less repeat. Apologies Role of Drones: >Observation During the Southern African liberations Wars in the Congo, northern Angola, and Southern Rhodesia, the ‘bush’ in these countries was used to its full advantage by for black terrorists whom conducted their guerrilla operations from it. The foliage concealed their movement through it, and was used a place of refuge from which launch ambushes and hit and run attacks from. Without the overhead vegetation, combatants become extremely exposed to areal observation. Because South Africa has plains and grasslands not bush; Drones can cost effectively take advantage of this. Such as in Yemen, dispute not having an air force, Iran and by extension the Houthis guerrilla [have] found it can achieve ISR – intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance – by flying drones over the battlefield.” [1] This can be for both tactical and operational applications. Drones could be very useful to spotting hostile mobs, combatants and potential ambushes along evacuation routes on the battlefield. And for the headquarters they can be used in intelligence gathering as well to see enemy troop movements, concentrations, training camps and build ups. >Targeting Drones, even without weaponry, have a vital role bombarding targets as “they [UAVs] are also becoming effective at using drones to call in highly accurate artillery and mortar fire.” [1] This devolvement of areal recon is not new, over fifty years ago, the marine corps concluded that a “commanders required a realtime information, reconnaissance, security, aerial observation, and target acquisition/designation system that could operate day and night in all kinds of weather. Based upon those needs, obtaining the Advanced Scout Helicopter was mandatory.” [5] While the project was later scraped due to bureaucratic red tape, it is worth noting that drones fill role of artillery spotters just well and for a much cheaper cost. Drones can also have an attacking ability. There are two methods of doing so engage targets with onboard weapons like gunship or the expendable option of being a loitering munition or otherwise called suicide drone. >Technological advancement has given the edges to drones UVAs are also smaller minimizing their radar profile compared to conventional aircraft.0 the non-metal, foam (?) and carbon fiber drones have low radar signatures and are virtually indivisible to non-interlinked antiquated air defense systems. 0. Both Yemen and the Karabakh War show, Cheap drones against second rate air defense systems are the winning factor. Drones can hug the terrain to hid from radar. “There are multiplier effects to ‘layering’ different types of air defense units and ‘integrating’ them all with each other and to multiple sensors. It appears that the Armenians didn’t do this seriously.” [3] Loitering munitions can also stay low to the terrain or even masked behind terrain features such as hills and valleys. Bait aircraft are viable for anti-air to fire and reveal themselves and then be taken out from a suicide drone in hiding. [3] In Yemen rebel, “Low-flying UAVs have also gone undetected…” by the Saudi led, US supplied coalition air defenses. [2 ] “…UAVs have been successfully deployed to target and disable coalition air defenses, inflicting notable reputational damage.” Succeeding where their missiles did not. The “unsophisticated UAV attacks are humiliating for a coalition led by the Middle East’s largest military spender.” [2] Sadi Arabinan had help in air defense network. Top of the line US equipment and ???Advisers”””seems air defense could counter super local drone attacks because where built for planes and stragertigc point defense in mind- lost source although “The Ukrainian experience demonstrates that UAV defense and traditional air defense should be integrated. A wide variety of drones have been deployed in support of the 1st and 2nd Army Corps deployed in eastern Ukraine, and the Ukranian air defenses have shot down some 45% of drones in the conflict, with another 40% downed by small arms fire and the final 10% with electronic measures.” [4] [1] https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/mena/the-houthis-have-built-their-own-drone-industry-in-yemen-1.1032847#5 [2] https://www.iiss.org/blogs/analysis/2019/08/houthi-uav-strategy-in-yemen [3] https://www.unz.com/akarlin/military-lessons-of-karabakh-war-2020/ [4] https://www.thedefensepost.com/2019/10/02/ukraine-unmanned-aerial-systems-borys-kremenetskyi-future/ [5] https://history.army.mil/html/books/070/70-27/cmhPub_70-27.pdf
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>>9598 >you will live to see the day an F-35 hiding from enemy S-400 sites by hugging the ground is "shot down" by a $10 loitering swarm munition intercepting the flightpath of the airborne abomination in order to get sucked into the engine >you will live to see the day a NATO airfield is disabled by small powered mini-glider drones flying over the runway at night in random patterns and damaging any aircraft trying to takeoff and land >you will live to see air to air engagements between small drones
>>9589 >>9590 It must be the Semitic admixture from Arabs and Jews (if the House of Solomon's story is to be believed).
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>>9592 Possibly, I once heard that in terms of the tier list for Negros, Ethiopians are at the top, and possibly Somalis coming second. I don't know what caused them to turn into complete niggers though. probably failed colonization efforts and Jews. >/k/ Nigger tier list when?
>>9646 That area being spared from the Bantu Expansion probably played a role in it as well.
>>9592 They also have the most Caucasoid admixture of any ethnic group in Africa.
>>9701 Basically was bantu-tards and no muh colonisation and slave trade what fuck up that much subsaharian Africa from being midly decent?
>>9836 Some parts sure, if it wasn't for their attempt at communism i'm sure Ethiopia would be doing a lot better today, a lot better doesn't mean Africa's Japan but at least decent for the place. And no matter how you look at it the Bantu expansion was infinitely more destructive than colonization ever was, at least Africa ended in a better position post colonization than before it, niggers just didn't take advantage of it.
>>9837 >>9675 >>9701 Can you guys give me a overview on Bantu's and why they are the worst of the worst as far as niggers go.
>>9855 >bantus Just look at the fact that the only semi-civilized country in the area of those spoken languages is Botswana and that's because it's first president was married to a white woman, and it's third president was the son of said marriage and had some idea what a civilization is the second president being in power in name only can also be argued. Also, it has no fucking industry of it's own and relies on finance money laundering and diamonds. IT's also 90% fucking desert. The only African country that might be able to become a global power is fucking Ethiopia (maybe) Madagascar Ethiopia has the issue of being muticultural in the worst way (tribal) with a fucking militant version of actual free scots (Eritrea). It /could/ become a major player but it needs industrialization and it needs fucking coastline (and a port town). Madagascar because it's basically isolated from the retardation of the rest of the continent. and also the reason for it being dirt poor Tanzania is the only one that hasn't had a war thats a major country, but I haven't read enough on them.
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>>9877 Madagascar also has an Austronesian indigenous population, because making boats is beyond niggers, so they don't have that great of an impact on that island. Although they do have Bantu admixture, and also Arab. Still, with enough soft eugenics they might be able to produce an elite that can do some good for all of those islanders.
>>9877 Global power? no way, regional at best.
>>9639 Will Fresh Fruits become a reality?
>>9892 What did you mean by this anon?
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>>9896 It gets fresher every time you see it
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>>9896 >>9899 These are great
Look at this.
>>10033 Anyone who assists niggers in any shape or form is an enemy of mine, even if the jews consider him an enemy too.
>>10050 And?
>>10050 Why?
>>10075 And EO should stop pretending to be a victim. >>10080 Kill subhumans
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>>9899 I wonder what ever happened to Zerg. >>10033 That's really interesting I wonder why they chose now to resume operations? Also didn't they continue to do pmc work but under the company names Sandline International and Sterling Corporate Services? Well what do you think Streloks will they be able to replicate the success they had in Angola and Sierra Leone or will this end the same way the Equatorial guinea operation went?
>>10050 OW the EDGE!
>>10105 >zergface The actor for Zergface is Wangbao Qiang. He got semi-canceled after he caught his wife cheating and divorced him, also mostly moved on from the soldiers films since the CCP thinks its not proper culturally to let a divoicee be in a soldier film. If you're asking a bout the tv series. It ends like any shitty written fanfiction where hero gets all except his mother dies from lung cancer I think.
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>>10132 >Hating niggers is edgy This is your brain on reddit.
>>10132 pls leave
>>10153 To such ridiculous extent, yes it is edgy.
>>10153 >making money by helping African countries maintain stability makes you an "enemy" Less stability in Africa=more nigger Africans in European countries. It's also pretty fucking cringey to call a merc company your enemy. The fuck are you going to do? If they took you seriously for a moment you'd likely end up dead. >>10173 No
>>10182 >Less stability in Africa=more nigger Africans in European countries. How underage must one be to seriously believe this?
>>10256 Isn't it wierd how you're having difficulties disproving his statement
>>10256 >stable Africa >no one leaves because they're not being slaughtered by dozens of different extremist groups and the gibs are all right there so why go? >unstable Africa >wtf these niggers keep chopping arms off and eating other niggers and there's no gibs and none of us know how to farm >but those pale men up north say there's free shit for refugees think I'm finna take me some ypipo pussy Not hard to figure out retard, shitskins go where the gibs are, and if they can just go to Europe and get everything handed to them versus staying and probably getting their dome split as part of some congo voodoo hoodoo bullshit some ape in a beret made up for his militant cult then even the dumbest nigger can connect the dots and start making his way across the Mediterranean.
>>10256 It's fairly simple. People don't like leaving their homelands unless they have to, not even niggers. Of course there are opportunists from central/southern Africa, but the majority of them are from unstable regions in North Africa or the Middle East. You don't have African shoemakers because dumb American shoe companies give them free shoes driving the shoemakers out of business since they can't compete with free shoes. Same thing happens with food to the point where what mockery of an agricultural sector Africa did have before is now completely gone. Teach a man to fish and all that isn't possible if day-to-day life involves criminals running rampant in the streets. Yes I'm aware that if the gibs were cut it would cause mass famine and some level of instability. That's why it's important to stabilize the region first, THEN pull out the gibs so that security forces can enforce martial law while the nigs are relearning how to have a functional economy.
>>10264 Or, and hear me out on this: We just deny Africans from entering our countries. I know its impossible because apparently white people long for mudhouse matriarichal schoolmarm bullshit so much but there is not a single reason we can't exploit these countries and keep them out of our own. Hell we did it for about 100 years.
>>10345 Yeah no shit deny them entry, you can also make them trying to enter a non-issue by teaching them some basic shit and then letting them have at it instead of this half-measure bullshit the UN and dumbass organizations like greenpeace like to do. Saying an entire region being destabilized is anything but trouble for everyone else around them is asinine.
>>5260 I'm gonna say the N word
>>12917 Don't do it!
>>12918 NUCLEAR
>>12917 >>12918 >>12924 Reddit-tier 'memery'. Kill yourselves, you fucking faggots.
>>12917 >>12918 >>12924 This board is absolutely cuckchan-tier
>>12931 >>12933 Is it that bad of a joke or did you not get the context? I thought it was pretty clear that I'm implying nuclear weapons are the best option if you want to viably protect yourself. No two nuclear armed states have ever gone to war with each other.
>>12961 the amount of Xenon-129 in the surface soil and atmosphere of Mars says you're super wrong about that, Strelok
>>12969 Someone tested nukes, possibly gigaton range, on mars. Why do you think we made the "moon" program? What do you think the saturn V was originally intended to carry? Everybody acknowledges that the atlas, minotaur, R-7, etc were initially nuclear weapon launch vehicles so there's not a big leap of the imagination there. I'm not even joking, I think we probably, at least just designed, the Saturn series as ICBMs, and probably went a lot further.
>>12972 that could be more plausible than intelligent life on mars but there's an awful lot of that xenon 129, I'm not sure that amount could be created by just a couple nukes and I'm not sure the USA and USSR were capable of launching that many nukes to mars. Wouldn't they just nuke the far side of the moon or something
>>12974 You know, it would contribute to explaining why mars used to have oceans and a stronger magnetic field.
>>12961 It was that bad of a joke. Keep that shit out of the webring.

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