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R&D, New Adoption, Procurements Thread I Strelok 05/20/2020 (Wed) 15:04:43 No.512
NEW SHIT HOT SHIT Thread to discuss new research projects, developments, adoptions, and procurements of /k/ related material. JAPAN: "Type 20" Rifle unveiled = Improved Drainage, Pistol Renewed May 18th http://archive.is/3oiGh https://trafficnews.jp/post/96397 Translated by anon >The Ground Self Defense Forces unveiled newly adopted Type 20 5.56mm rifle and 9mm Pistol SFP 9 to the press on the 18th. The new rifle has been outfitted with use in remote island defence operations in mind, with improvements in drainage and corrosion resistance, in addition to a new stock with adjustable cheek riser and stock extension. The new rifle is to be adopted by infantry regiments of the various army groups and the Amphibious Rapid Deployment Brigade. >The current rifle (Type 89) was introduced in 1989, and pistol (P220) in 1982, both being renewed for the first time in 31 and 38 years respectively. The Ministry of Defence plans to acquire 3283 new Type 20 rifles and 323 SFP9 pistols within the year. >The new rifle is made by Howa Industries (Aichi Pref. Kiyosu City). It is capable of firing 30 rounds continuously [sic], and maintains the famous "ア・タ・レ (translates to HIT)" selector markings (安全・アンゼン=Safe)・タ(単発・タンパツ=Single Shot)・レ(連射・レンシャ=Automatic Fire)". The rifle has a grip on the forend improving manipulation [sic]. The new pistol is made by Heckler and Koch of Germany and carries 15 rounds. The grip is far more ergonomic and it is capable of single handed magazine extraction. With sexy andguards with MLOK slots, cringepods, and journalists who know so little about firearms and picatinny rails, you can all marvel how the Japanese rearmament continues cheerfully.
>>512 Did they say anything about rifle grenades?
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>>514 The article neglected mentions of it but the MoD and JSDF PR guys talked about how the Berreta GLX-160 Under Barrel Grenade can be used in conjunction with the Type 20. I doubt that the UBG will replace the rifle grenade in JSDF service anytime soon, since it took like 30 years to replace the Type 64 with the Type 89 from front-line service. If anything, if rifle grenades are incompatible with the Type 20, they'll be put into storage for use by the Maritime and Air JSDF, probably for base defence, and maybe it'll be issued to the reserves who still use the Type 64 in some army groups. just realised that TFB had a article up that I could have copied... https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/05/18/first-look-japanese-armys-new-type-20-rifle
>>519 It's just strange that they adopted a rifle grenade in 2006 specifically saying that UGLs are not good enough, only to adopt one a mere 14 years later. Still, it looks like the muzzle device has the gas rings to launch rifle grenades, but that doesn't mean that the rifle is actually designed to fire them regularly. Anything about the bayonet? Is it new or the same old one?
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>>525 They're using the Type 89 bayonet still
So Nips went SCAR route with their !notAR18 copy it would seem. Pistol looks like a copy of that Croatian gun that S&W imports and renames could be wrong though, kinda face blind with striker fire polymer pistols.
>>540 It looks like they mashed everything that went into the trials together.
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So hows going the NGSW projects going? https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/04/20/vortex-awarded-ota-for-the-us-armys-next-gen-squad-weapon-fire-control-prototype-program/ >Vortex Optics have announced that they have been selected to deliver production ready prototypes of their NGSW-FC optic for trials and evaluations. An OTA is a Department of Defense contract for the development of prototypes, research and production projects. It appears that the optic will be used during the upcoming Soldier Touch Point (or STP) evaluations which see troops use the rifle in field conditions and deliver user feedback. >It is currently unknown if Vortex are the only company to be issued a prototype OTA or if other Fire Control prototypes from other companies will also be evaluated. >It is a variable-power, first focal plane rifle scope that is augmented with an overlaid digital display with what the company describes as ‘Active Reticle™’ which they say “has been proven to increase hit percentage and decrease time to engage”. >Active Reticle achieves this by combining data from a laser rangefinder (with a range up up to 1km), an on-board ballistic engine/calculator and an atmospheric sensor suite which calculates where to aim at a target and then projects this onto the first focal plane using a “programmable active matrix micro-display”. https://www.armadninoviny.cz/utocne-pusky-pro-americke-specialni-jednotky.html Sorry I wasn't able to find a good English information
>>565 Is the sight supposed to be a combination rangefinder/variable power scope? Seems pretty fucky. I know riflescopes can be pretty sturdy with a good mount, but I can't see the electronic elements of this lasting longer than a year in rough conditions.
And here you have some photos of the ngsw-ar's
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>>565 I know that SIG's idea is that it's easier to extract a steel-brass hybrid than a pure steel case, but I still can't help but find it to be overall quite retarded. As for GD, if then can make it work then this cartridge seems to be a safe bet. And Textron's cartridge has still too many question marks about it to make a judgement as a layman, yet I can already tell that their rifle is plain retarded. I also have to wonder if the first two are straight-walled or not. If yes, then a P90 style magazine could work wonders, especially with the bullpup. Textron's case is already perfect for that kind of magazine.
>>565 >>568 >>573 Think i’ve been playing a lot of 40k recently because that reminds me of a lasgun.
>>573 Just to be clear, these aren't official. They were made by some Chinese guy on Pixiv from what he could figure out from the patent drawings.
>>565 I just want telescoped polymer 5.56 for civilian use. they should go with that ammunition but put in in a bullpup to piss everyone off though. speaking of telescoped it would be nice to have .500S&W bullets loaded into a telescoping polymer case that could fit into the grip of an autoloader so we can have halo magnums in real life
Do you guys think it would be feesable to hand-press telescopic captured piston rounds like the old PSS had? You might be able to extract them with a normal bolt action rifle
>>2327 Yes, but I doubt they could be reloaded after use. It would be like loading a normal cartridge, but with the added steps of seating the piston and sizing the case mouth. It would be easiest to base it off of an existing straight walled round for brass availability and to minimize the amount of dies that would be needed. You'd also want to anneal the case mouth before necking it down.
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Do we know what the Russkies are currently up to? It's of course hard to keep up with them if you don't speak Russian, and I have no idea if they are actually buying all those fancy new stuff, from the Ratnik to the Armata.
>>4975 As far as can I read they are supposed to be adopted post 2020/2021 https://www.armadninoviny.cz/rusky-tank-armata-vstoupi-do-sluzby-v-roce-2021.html
>>4975 They've been prototype-testing various different stuff in Syria, ranging from suicide-drones to autocanon-tankettes. But with economy shitting the bed that stuff probably isn't going to be that great of a priority.
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>>4975 From my knowledge and some guesswork they're having manufacturing problems with the gun. The 2A-82 gun was also supposed to be put onto the T-90 Tagil/Proryv, hence the enlarged turret, but they're only receiving the older 2A-46 series as of now. They also have the BMP-3 Dragoon, an updated BMP-3 with an improved layout and an unmanned turret. If Russia needed more modern fighting vehicles right now they have quicker and easier to implement options so I expect it to be slow going for the new families. As for their infantry, I know they're testing a replacement for the dragunov based on the MA system which will go into mass production 2021-2022. As well as making samples of a modernized MA rifle. They also have the Orsis T-5000 rifles that are being put into service. Russia just seem to be taking their time as they don't have much to worry about.
>>4997 You mean they're actually taking the time to work out most of the flaws in their new equipment before adopting it?
>>565 It's scary how accurate Arma 3 was with what they think NATO will be using by 2030, that Textron gun and optic precisely. >>4997 >russia >precision engineering lol. There's a reason the Spetsnaz uses H&K guns. I imagine those rifles will just be there to sell to the Indians. >>4975 They can't afford any of it, Ratnik might get adopted in small portions over time, the AK-12 is just a AK-74M with rails, Armata is too expensive and they'll just upgrade their old T-72 to T-90 spec ad infinitum. They say 2021, what that means is that it will wait until 2025 until there's more than 50 of them.
The Japanese never fail to make my dick rock-fucking-hard.
>>5044 Thank you for sharing, Strelok.
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>>5044 The rifle is an AR-18 roughly beaten into the shape of a blocky AR-15, so this is basically a somehow better-looking SCAR. The pistol is some plastic fantastic HK thingy. Japs can do so much better than this.
>>5092 I say that and accidentally post a nork type 73. On that note, any news from Best Korea?
It looks like the navy is starting work on a new fighter not even that well into the F-35's service life. http://archive.is/zna6R
>>5093 A question regarding the 2nd image, what kind of rifle grenades are those and how come we don't see any forces in Europe and America use them anymore? I heard they were hard to use because they required a blank bullet to use and more training than an under-barrel grenade launcher. Are there any Streloks here that have used rifle grenades?
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New Bundeswehr SI rifle to replace the G36 Haenel MK 556 Another Picatinny rail filled AR variant Then again was either that or a SCAR made by HK, the 433. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/36433/here-is-the-suprise-choice-to-become-germanys-standard-assault-rifle Is there anything modern and unique anymore?
>>6647 Russian AR with wooden furniture? The chinks do kinda use their own platform. And Slovakia still does use Vz58 and Czechs do have their BREN 2.
>>6702 Up close the chinks rifle looks like one of those cheap plastic toy guns you can buy at funfairs.
>>6647 Fucking von der Leyen and her politics. She had a real hateboner for H&K. The official reason she wanted the G36 out was because it lost accuracy after a couple of mag dumps, but I mean, come on. I remember SZ reporting that active servicemen were real puzzled after the announcement since they never ran into any legit problems with the G36 themselves.
>>6772 Maybe some parts are made in the same factories?
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>>6773 Wasn't the issue with the G36 underperformance in hot environments? >>6775 Needs more rails When did the future become Black?
>>6773 >hateboner for G36 That's because they are trying to merge Nexter Systems and RM. They want to kill off the FAMAS replacement 416 so that new consitorum can get sweet monies
>>6702 who still considers the type-95 modern? if a gun was designed in the 90s and had basically no meaningful modification, that is still considered modern?
>>6854 Euqenes stoners AR design was made in 60s near every Mbt was made/designed in the 70s-80s, while as far as I know isn't china making a new Assault rifle?
>>6855 Yeah the QBZ has issues **they added a way to drain water from it via the mag by adding holes... Turns out that doesn't work well in the desert or when you have pollution dust everywhere.
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>>6857 >QBZ There are more qbzs anon you gotta diffenciate them. Also which chinks use the QBZ-03?
>>6859 Qbz 95 was the one I was talking about. They had a trial mod with that and one of the pistols ( i think qsz 11) which were manufactured with holes in the bottom to drain out water. Obviously its not a good idea for desert. Qbz 03 is most likely issued to western theatre (tibet and Xinjiang) as well as some special units who get the new gear first in the central (beijing) theatre. Usually the western tc gets the newest shit first since hey have the harshest enviorments, and especially some shit just refuses to work (car engines for example) when in tibet at altitude.
I wonder how well would this new 130mm gun would fare if it was used for AA. And I also wonder how hard would it be to adapt various 5" shells to work with this (mostly looking at the Vulcano here).
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Best koreans held a march and showed off their modernised army; seems like they got a whole bunch of digital uniforms, NODs, railed AKs, and a whole bunch of vehicles - whether they're more than plywood and green paint, we'll have to wait and see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8dZl9f3faY https://defence-blog.com/news/army/north-korea-held-clone-army-parade.html
>>7102 That for self propelled arty or for that new France-German European MBT nonsense?
>>7393 Why not both? Although, that is probably for the experimental 130mm leo. >>7140 I think the reason why they decided to do this parade at night was precisely because everything is plywood and leds.
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>>7393 The story goes like this: >140mm and 120mm smoothbore cannons are developed in parallel >120mm round is basically a shortened and necked-down version of the 140mm one >Armata shows up and Rheinmetall decides that the West needs more penetration right now >so they decide to develop a 130mm cannon that sits right between the 120mm and 140mm ones https://soapbox.manywords.press/2017/12/12/on-the-140mm-tank-gun/#fn-1852-est Most NATO tanks were designed so that they can work with the 140mm cannon, and all three of them use the same basic design for the penetrator. And the 130mm shells is already so long and heavy that you need an autoloader for it, and then it really makes no difference if you use a somehow longer and heavier shell, because the autoloader should be able to handle it. All-in-all, I just don't see the point of choosing the 130mm design over the 140mm.
>>7400 My bigger question is if they have solved loading in seperate ammo types. IIRC that was the big autoloder issue. Maybe just have it load from 2 sides with two different ammos?
>>7393 >self propelled arty Smoothbore guns are inherently less accurate, so you'd need to use at least inertial guidance for accurate long distance shelling. But if you can accept that, then maybe you could use it for that role too. Still, a much bigger problem is that it uses fixed ammunition (the 140mm gun uses semi-fixed), so you can't vary the amount of propellant like in the 155mm NATO guns. >>7418 They solved that problem in the 1950s. https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=1KMCOaZ8qlM
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>>7563 >Is 6.8 NGSW a meme? There are 3 different projects: one uses telescopic polymer cases, the other two use a normal design. But one of the normal ones has a plastic case with a metallic end, and the other one has a brass case with a steel end. Now that very last one is inherently retarded, because at that point you should go for a steel case and call it a day. With all of that said, I don't understand the premise to begin with: the Army developed a 6.8mm projectile and just told the competitors to make it go sanic fast. If there was a bit of sanity they would have set certain criteria for the projectile (e.g. penetrate this kind of armour at this kind of range) and just let everyone compete to come up with the best cartridge that can deliver this performance. And of course a cartridge should be developed together with a barrel, so that you don't have to figure out the correct length and rifling (if there is rifling to begin with). Once you have the barrel and cartridge you can start designing (or adapting) firearms for them. But this? This is just retarded. And lastly, there is the criteria in question: we just don't know what the hell they want exactly. Actually, it looks like they themselves don't know what they want. Increasing the firepower of the rifleman is a noble goal, but only if you know what you want him to do in a firefight, because then you can figure out what he needs to do his job. All they seem to know is that they have this 6.8mm projectile and they want weapons that fire because overmatch. >If so, what caliber should we have switched to? Pic related in the 1950s, so now we wouldn't have all of this nonsense. Don't get me wrong, this isn't some kind of an Überkugel that got everything right, but it seems to be good enough for the job. We could make much better cartridges now, of course.
>>7564 Thanks for the answer anon! However I think they did tell them what requirements the rounds must meet. I believe they must penetrate level IV plates at 600 meters.
>>7140 That last pics looks like something from C&C 3.
So here's ~2 years later new tank Czech Republic >Size is basically the same. >Crew is still the same from the ol'T-72 >New Reactive/Composite add-on armor "DYNA-Excalibur" the front turret and front of the hull and the back and sides of turret has add-on slat armor >V-84 powerplant of 828 bhp at 2100 rpm >Armament: >Main: >2A46 cannon >calibre: 125 mm >ammunition: 39 rounds >gun stabilizer: not specified >range: >n daytime: 3.11 mi >at night: 2.49 mi >Secondary: >PKT coaxial machine gun >calibre: 7.62 mm >ammunition for coaxial machine gun: 2000 rounds >NSVT remote-controlled machine gun (MGC 01) >calibre: 12.7 mm >ammunition for machine gun: 720 rounds Also some of mine pics of Vydra
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>>7625 The new Serbian M-84AS1 looks better
>>7625 This looks like a sensible, well built machine.
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Speaking of Eastern Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx_%28Rheinmetall_armoured_fighting_vehicle%29 >On 17 August, 2020 the government of Hungary and Rheinmetall Group signed a contract to start manufacturing the Lynx infantry fighting vehicle family in Hungary. Few other details emerged at the time about the deal, which is part of Hungary’s Zrinyi 2026 rearmament programme launched in 2017. Hungarian Ministry of Defence sources stated to Janes on 19 August that the details of the package, including industrial and procurement aspects, would be worked out within one to two months.[16] In a 2 September, 2020 interview about the new Lynx production joint venture and possible further German-Hungarian-Czech cooperation, Oliver Mittelsdorf, CEO of Rheinmetall Defence explicitly mentioned the existing, long-running manufacturing ties between Rheinmetall's MAN and Rába, a 124-years old Hungarian automotive manufacturing group with an active truck manufacturing plant near Győr, in Northwestern Hungary. A week later, on 10 September, 2020 Rheinmetall and the Government of Hungary held a joint press conference in Budapest and among the details of the new joint manufacturing project they announced that the new factory, along with an almost three square kilometer-sized full-service vehicle test track called ZALA Zone, will be built near Zalaegerszeg, Hungary. [17] [18] [19] Rheinmetall's press release of 10 September, 2020 confirmed that the Hungarian Ministry of Defence had awarded Rheinmetall an order to supply tracked armoured vehicles and related products and services with a total value of more than €2 billion. The contract covers 218 Lynx infantry fighting vehicles fitted with Rheinmetall's manned 30mm Lance turret. The larger/heavier Lynx KF41 has been selected by Hungary. The award also includes nine Leopard 2 based Buffalo armoured recovery vehicles, plus additional products and services that include simulators, training and instruction, plus an initial supply of spare parts as well as maintenance support.[7] During a first phase of production, Hungary is to receive forty-six Lynx plus the nine Buffalo ARVs, with delivery to be complete by the start of 2023. These vehicles will be built in Germany, but for the second production phase an additional 172 Lynx will built in Hungary. To this end, it was confirmed the Hungarian government and Rheinmetall had agreed in August 2020 to establish a joint venture responsible for creating a Lynx production facility in Hungary, to be financed by a local company.
>>7625 >Vydra It's a patria amv again isn't it? Ofcourse it is! Not sure what's the deal with everyone buying AMV's, not like Hyundai couldn't mass produce IFV's for half the cost.
>>7140 you're not pirating windows are you anon?
>>6647 Aaaaand the project got canned. Recap: >2016 >reports surface stating that the G36 has terrible accuracy after 300 rounds put through it >reports are not surprising, everybody in the armed forces knew this already >but after years of scandals about German army equipment being faulty, too expensive, or just not enough, the media jumps on this opportunity to crack jokes >Ursula von der Leyen (UvL or Uschi as her troops call her) then ministress of defense decides that the G36 must be replaced >There is also some talk about ammunition being the real culprit, but besides an apology letter from the company nothing ever came from it >States that a decision will be made before the end of 2017 >2017: comes and goes >2018: nothing happens >2019: UvL is promoted out of office after corruption scandal, now leads EU >Annegret Kram Karrenbauer (AKK) replaces her >not much else happens that year >2020: beginning of October it is announced that the Haenel MK556 has won the competition for a new ass salt rifle, 120.000 are to be ordered at 250 million Eurodollars total >Competition states that the MK556 met all the "has to have" criteria and was the cheapest of the rifles to do so >Not even a week after the announcement, no not even a day afterwards HK announces that they won't accept this loss >they declare that they will take "all available legal means" to reverse the decision >not two weeks later the competition was cancelled because of "copyright issues" >officially nothing more is known, but there are rumors that Haenel copied a Magpull magazine design >now more details about the competition are released >apparently there are people who are salty about the fact that Haenel won, because the MK556 scored a couple of points lower in reliability and precision than the HK443 >keep in mind, both rifles met the minimum requirements, it's just that the HK one was better than the Haenel one, and that the Haenel one was cheaper This is the only source in English I could find for now. https://soldiersystems.net/2020/10/09/german-military-cancels-contract-with-cg-haenel-for-new-rifles-after-hk-alleges-patent-infringement/ Then there is also the following two links. Just use DeepL or google translate. https://augengeradeaus.net/2020/10/streit-um-neues-sturmgewehr-auswahlentscheidung-gegen-die-technisch-bessere-waffe/ https://augengeradeaus.net/2020/10/vergabeverfahren-fuer-neues-sturmgewehr-neuer-anlauf-mit-patenanwalt/
>>8127 So will H&K 344 be adopted or what?
>>8184 Considering how the G36 seems to be just fine, and how the economy got wrecked by Corona, I don't think the Germans will replace their small arms any time soon.
>>8184 Sadly what >>8189 said. They are looking at reevaluating the competition with a copyright lawyer, and will reconsider their decision. Remember the G11 not being adopted because of the reunification and the financial burden that put on the West Germany? Now consider that big mommy milkers Merkel herself said that Covid is a bigger deal than reunification. And keep in mind that Merkel herself grew up in East Germany.
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>>8127 WEW LAD
>>8502 Don't be so sad, a real upgrade in small arms usually requires a new cartridge, and that AR-18 in a plastic shell can spit .22 just fine. Replacing it with an AR-15 would have been a waste of time and effort, not to mention money.
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German Luftwaffe to buy 38 Tranche 4 Eurofighters to replace aging Tranche 1 Eurofighters for 5.4 million Eurodollars. Nothing new here, besides the committment to the Eurofighter platform well into the 21st century. German army reveals a new "anti-drone rifle" in their camp at Gao (Mali). The "rifle" is really just a big man portable optically guided manually operated directive jammer. Drone detection works via the sensor system of the MANTIS gun system, but actual aiming and jamming is handled by the operator holding the jammer. (MANP OG MO DJ, or MANPOGMOD, POGMOD for short) >>8515 The only downside of the G36 is the magazines being so wide. The plastic nobs were a very nice idea, especially for speeding up reloading and general handling of mags. But they make the magazines so wide that you can fit two normal AR aluminium mags into G36 mag pouches. I wonder if they can find a solution that enables you to clip mags together while also keeping mag width to a managable level (or at least reducing the snagging caused by the nobs).
>>8127 >Haenel won >In 2008, the company was reesthablished and adopted its original name of C. G. Haenel.[6] It now belongs to Merkel, which is in turn part of Caracal International in the United Arab Emirates >United Arab Emirates that didn't help them either, actually a no-go
>>8520 >The only downside of the G36 is the magazines being so wide. You could always get rid of the knobs. Grinding them down shouldn't be that hard, and the factory could just modify the moulds a little bit. Although magazines are something I'm conflicted about: I like standardization, but M-16 mags are shit. They need a long straight section to go into the magazine well, and that is not a particularly useful feature. And they are push-in magazines set up in such a way that making the magazine release ambidextrous requires a lot of small fiddly parts. Meanwhile in rock-in type magazines (like what the G36 has) are inherently ambidextrous and only require a lever and a spring to work. So adopting the M-16 magazine as the default NATO standard was a mistake in my opinion.
>>8533 >rock-in type magazines (like what the G36 has) Sorry, but the G36 mags are not rock-in. They are push in. The paddle release is a massive plus, but you can't rock the magazine in because of the deeper magwell. Instead you push them in until you hear the click. >You could always get rid of the knobs Which is what a lot of people do anyways. In the end I would just like a system where you can get the advantages of both: slim mags and inherent clipability.
>>8537 >inherent clipability Do people even use that?
>>8538 Mostly the armoury because it's a nice way to stack them in a rack or transport a lot of them in one hand.
>>8571 I take that as no.
Greece said they're planning on replacing the G3 according to an unsourced claim on the Wikipedia page and I couldn't find any news on it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Hellenic_Army.
>>8816 how strong is the greek army compared to the rest of yurop?
>>8879 If their defense minister isn't a woman that automatically puts them above like half of the rest of yurup.
>>8879 I think they would be one of the best if they weren't gimped by the EU and liberal policy as the military and generally most of the country is right-wing. Considering they're a mountainous country too I don't see any point in replacing the G3 if they're going to adopt 5.56, what they need to replace is the 1911.
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>>8914 Why? Don't get me wrong, I personally believe that back then cutting back the old .45 revolvers for moonclips would have been superior to adopting the 1911, but I personally would be quite excited if I were given an old 1911 that still just works.
>>8917 Single-action and low-capacity, the rest of the world and even their neighbors have modern service handguns.
>>8921 And? Pistols in a modern war are less useful than bayonets. At least you can cut packages with the latter.
>>8923 A last resort should be decent.
>>8921 you should never draw your side arm unless your rifle stops shooting and you don't have time to correct the malfunction/reload. 7+1 of .45acp is more than suitable for that purpose, as are the majority of revolvers tbh. reliable and enough firepower to put down an unarmored target on the other side of a room is all you really need to consider when adopting a military sidearm.
>>7564 Why didn't America adopt it?
>>9200 Because there was one single faggot in the Ordnance Department who wanted to push his retarded idea of a slightly shorter .30-06, and so he successfully sabotaged the .280 British.
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>>9200 A few reasons First, the short one. The US spent a bunch of time in the pre-war period playing with a .28 cal bullet in the form of .276 Pederson and were left somewhat unimpressed, especially by its comparatively lackluster barrier penetration which was a large preoccupation in American cartridge thinking. Second, the island hopping campaign in WW2 left a very serious impression on US logistics officers. Go read about any little 300 man battle on any little stoop of an island and you'll find a story about the unbelievable difficulty of doing anything. War is an environment where everything goes wrong all the time and even by that standard, conducting and supplying an opposed naval landing is about the hardest thing you can do. It was made harder than it needed to be by the US's wide variety of ammunition forms. The US issued: >30.06 in clips for the Garand >30.06 in belts for the M1919 >30.06 in magazines for the BAR >.30 carbine in magazines for the M1 carbine >.45 ACP in magazines for the Thompson (and later the M3 with its incompatible mags) This is just for small arms, and every company needed the correct mix of this delivered right to the beach, prepacked and ready to go on a regular schedule, in addition to every other consumable of which there were dozens. US logistics officers spent the war desperately trying to dream up a way to eliminate even just one of these forms and failed. Entering the postwar period, the slowly materializing threat of a land war against the Soviet Union and the sheer amount of material the US would have to shovel into western Europe to save it and the speed with which it would have to be done made the invasion of Okinawa look like a joke. This is why the US was so highly motivated to choose a single cartridge that could do everything and a single rifle to go with it. In the FG-42, they thought they found their answer. A (nearly) handy rifle chambered in a full power cartridge that's (nearly) controllable in full-auto? What a godsend, it could replace everything except maybe the belt-fed. Early prototypes of what would become the M14 strongly resembled the FG-42, with a straight line stock and elaborate muzzle device (see attached). Third, .280 British went through a bunch of changes. Going into the program, the US's only demand was that the bullet had to have a steel core because by that point they had a few decades of reports pointing with increasing certainty at the fact that the US did not have enough lead reserves or production to be able to supply a major land war with a lead-cored bullet. Early .280 British was lead-cored. It was changed to steel at the US's insistence, but the steel cores were seated inconsistently and reportedly had accuracy as bad as 12 MOA. The British recruited the Belgians to help them unfuck it, and after some doing they brought it down to 5-6 MOA which was sufficient to meet minimum requirements. Now that the mere technical problems had been mostly solved, they ran into the conceptual ones. If you're going to standardize on a single infantry cartridge, before all else it needs to be a good machine gun cartridge. Infantry combat revolves around the machine gun. In WW2 and Korea machine guns consistently inflicted ~80% of the casualties done by small arms in total. US ordnance had clear ideas of what a machine gun ought to be, and the ability to efficiently chew up light cover was one they rated highly. 30.06 M2 AP was in American minds the gold standard for "fuck you and everything you're hiding behind" (and still is, it's the reference threat for level 4 armor). .280 British didn't quite measure up in any of its incarnations. There was a bunch of infighting and political skullduggery going on as well, with the US Ordnance Dept's old guard quite certain that the best gun that could ever exist was a mildly modified M1 Garand chambered for a mildly modified 30.06 M2 and younger thinkers quite a bit less sure. I'm not entirely sure which side department head Col. Renee Studler was on (the one single faggot >>9203 mentions), popular history lays most of the weight on his shoulders but the earliest SCHV studies conducted by the US army thank Studler by name for his patronage. In any case, Studler retired at the critical moment in 1953, the empowered old guard took the opportunity to flush their rivals and got their granddad gun and its granddad cartridge, and the Ordnance Department and Springfield Armory ultimately died for it.
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>>8879 Pros: >roughly 140,000 personnel >Decent armored forces >170 Leopard-2HELs (Pretty much the Leopard 2A6EX, an upgraded version of the 2A6 with a different name) >183 Leopard-2A4s >500 Leopard-1A5s >390 M48A5 "MOLF" >100 M60A3 TTS >and a bunch of other armored vehicles >Decent artillery >145 M110A2 >24 PZH-2000GR >420 M109A1/A2/A3/Α5 >206 M114 >19 M56 PACK >329 M101A1 >36 M270 MLRS >116 RM-70 >Significant naval power, on somewhat equal terms with Turkey when it comes to numbers >4 Hydra-Class (Meko-200HN) & 9 Eli class (Kortenaer) frigates >10 gunboats (6 Osprey class & 4 Asheville) >19 missile boats >11 submarines (4 Type 214, 1 Type 209/1500, 3 Type 209/1200 and 3 Type 209/1100) >9 landing ships And a couple dozen of other support ships. >Significant airforce >30 F-16C/D Block 52+ ADV >54 F-16C/D Block 52+ >38 F-16C/D Block 50 >32 F-16C/D Block 30 >24 Mirage 2000-5Mk2 >20 Mirage 2000BGM/EGM >34 F-4E AUP TL;DR: It's not bad, but it's getting dangerously outdated. They also haven't invested a cent in drones and that's going to bite them in the ass real hard in case of a conflict with the roaches. They stand absolutely no chance at CONQUERING Turkey, but they have enough firepower to make a Turkish advance into their sea/land practically impossible.
>>9287 >the belt-fed. Early prototypes of what would become the M14 strongly resembled the FG-42, with a straight line stock and elaborate muzzle device (see attached). And yet, it seems like they missed two of the most important advantages of the FG-42: the placement of the magazine and the spring-loaded buttstock. The former was rather important in reducing the felt recoil, and the latter shortened the rifle quite a bit. What should they have done is to take the FG-42 as is, make it semi-auto only, get rid of the bayonet and bipod if favour of a traditional stock (like what that prototype has), and then rework it for .30-06. And also switch to 10 round chargers, like how they historically did it. As for the squad's machine gun, they should have copied the BREN (or one of the vz. whatevers the BREN is based on), but obviously simplified and with as many stamped parts as possible. Of course they should use the same magazines as the FG-42 copies, just issue them with 30 round ones instead of 20. This way they will sure to have magazines available, even if only 20 rounders. The magazine itself should have been also compatible with the BAR's. As far as I know, they actually tried to make full-auto Garands that fed from the BAR's magazine, but the spring was too weak to quickly push up the cartridges with the RoF of that weapon, and apparently nobody thought of just redesigning it for a stronger spring, and using the old magazines for training and whatnot. After all of this was done, all they needed was maybe a new belt-fed machine gun, assuming the Browning design was thought to be obsolete.
>>9294 >one of the vz. whatevers That would be vzor. 26. Or the later vzor.52 but that isn't likely, also does anyone have more info about the T44? The only info I know is: >It's a combination of MG42 and FG42
>>9297 I saw a vz. 52 in a shop a couple of months ago wondering where you'd get the ammo for it without scrounging.
>>9298 Which, the belt fed or the magazine fed?
>>9301 Meant to sage.
>>9302 The rifle.
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>>9466 Ah then, ok its kinda complicated because there are two vz.52 Also >Norway is buying new tanks, K2 Panther or Leopard 2A7 https://esut.de/en/2020/11/meldungen/24103/neue-kampfpanzer-fuer-norwegen/ >The Norwegian Defense Minister Frank Bakke-Jensen presented the Norwegian plans to replace the equipment with battle tanks. According to this, Norway wants to use the new tanks from 2025. >Based on the land forces study by the Norwegian Parliament Storting from 2018, it was examined how protection and communication in particular can be brought up to modern standards in accordance with military requirements. After an upgrade of the existing tanks was rejected as insufficient, market analyzes revealed the latest versions of the Leopard 2 and the South Korean K2 Black Panther as candidates for the procurement project. >In preliminary talks with German and South Korean authorities, the options for industrial defense cooperation and access for Norwegian products to the defense equipment market of the supplier countries are now to be discussed. >In 2021, the Ministry of Defense wants to submit the procurement planning to the Storting for approval. Time is already short to procure an estimated 200 battle tanks by 2025.
Any word about the new US jungle boot program? I heard only two tenders went through 'as needed', which meant only a fraction of the expected sales. Was this because they were no good?
So are there any news about the new american guns?
>>9297 >It's a combination of MG42 and FG42 That's all you will find until someone starts digging through the archives to find more info, or gets access to it and decides to make a video.
>>9487 Well it sure sucks for Hyundai that they don't get to win that deal but it's a foregone conclusion that Norway is going to buy Leo2's, no matter how good K2 might be.

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