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"The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war." - Otamin

South America Strelok 01/25/2023 (Wed) 03:51:01 No.46647
Sleepy, mothballed militaries on this continent often only get to see action during civil unrest and the occasional coup d'état. Studying them is interesting if you want to see how Third World militaries cope with alienation from society and a lack of a clear enemy. And coping in general. The Brazilian Army has large troop numbers compared to its neighbors, but not as much of a numerical advantage when counting military hardware. It has a gargantuan territory to cover with motorized, jungle, light, border, etc. infantry. Brigades have to spread out their battalions, but this isn't just by the length of the border and coastline, brigades deep into the heart of the country do it too. Conscripts have to serve close to where they live, and officers still believe in molding and educating the unwashed masses through conscription. The Army is the only service with a substantial number of conscripts. Some say there'd be enough volunteers to abolish conscription. For the past couple decades, Army strategists have devised several schemes splitting their force between mostly professional, high-readiness brigades and outdated brigades only meant to process conscripts. There's supposed to be a reserve, but nobody's sure if a true mobilization would work. All motorized infantry is set to be mechanized with the locally-assembled Iveco Guarani, but that's gonna take many years. The cavalry's older Urutu APCs have already been replaced. Its Cascavels will be replaced by Centauro IIs by a contract signed last month. Some of them will also be locally assembled and there's a degree of parts commonality with the Guarani; furthermore, Argentina is now set to also use Guaranis, which might give the defense industry some economy of scale. Leopard 1s will serve as far as 2040 and I haven't heard of any replacement for the M-113s which are supposed to follow them. The Air Force's Gripens are very early on in their replacement of earlier F-5s. The Navy "has" an aircraft carrier because they designated their helicopter carrier (Atlântico, formerly the HMS Ocean) as a "multipurpose aircraft carrier". Which they only use for helicopters anyway. They still have about ~5 carrier-capable Skyhawks so they can take off from a nonexistant carrier and, aided by nonexistant AEW aircraft, dogfight at sea with their guns. I've read in some of their material that the Atlântico's Artisan system could still guide the Skyhawks, but how much would this be useful without AEW aircraft? Please tell me.
There's a brigade of heliborne infantry, but aviation battalions don't have enough transport capacity to haul even a single battalion in one go. And that's before factoring in that maintenance is meant to keep 70% operational at any given time and it's often less. It's simply normal for Brazilians to have a lot of nonfunctioning equipment. There's also an entire reinforced brigade (4 maneuver battalions instead of 3) of mountain infantry, on a country with no active tectonics or snowcapped heights. Though it's not that bad, there are plenty of heights for them. I guess higher-ups just wanted more light infantry so they'd need to order less APCs.
>>46647 >>46648 What do you think about the recent Neocommunist World Order (NWO) coup d'état in Brazil after Bolsonaro cucked/was-traitor (he said he wouldn't leave office unless killed)?
>>46657 To be more specific, is there any chance of a civil/separatist war in Brazil?
>>46657 >>46658 stop shitting up threads with your schizo nonsense
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>>46669 Shut up you chango, let them talk i want to read entertainment >>46657 >coup d'état in Brazil That silly parade cannot be considered a CdE by itself, same with the murrican park walk in the capitol that many of us saw live on streaming, but something happened that makes me believe it was a classic Sao Paolo Forum tactic: A hyped fake small unrest that makes reactionaries jump out to the opportunity and get culled, aka a self-coup. A similar event happened in Venezuela, the media hyped a lot a civil unrest (with many of its participants being gov agents in civilian attire) who were shooting some others although the total actual participants were less than 20, it snowballed into massive hundred of thousands civilians marching around against the commies. The military who were against the then-president Chavez then brew a quick plan with their peers, detained him and all of the sudden the loyalists revealed themselves and started detaining each others, this led to the old guard running out to the exile ASAP to avoid being court marshaled and others being done just that but in secret. The President was then freed, the controversy surrounding his forfeiting of powers and so on while cuffed is still debated to this day, but still he made a warning speech to others to buzz off. Due to this the guy culled most of the opposing factors in the military which included tons of specialists, pilots and high-ranks who were opposing vets of Chavez' own CdE a decade before. The national police also got knocked, for example the leader of the bolice special forces (most famous for that one hostage situation where the kidnapper got sniped in the eye) got canned for allowing the marches to continue despite him saying it was impossible to stop it; also most of the jet fighters' pilots defected to the US so very few could fly them. It was so bad that the famous rumour that Chavez had to bring cuban military personnel to fill the gaps and keep culling people internally didn't seem too farfetched, that seemed to be confirmed by most who had a spell in the army and sought refugee in other countries in the next years. As a side note Venezuela pre-gommies seems to be a decent example of study, somewhat isolated aside from OPEC partners who had few elements but mostly trained above-average compared to the context, and their academy was basically a college with potent ideological bias to every side which is probably why they splintered easily in the unrest and also why the country had 7 CdE's in less than a century. In Brazil nothing much happened after the monke horde strolled in the Niemeyer buildings but Lula chopped the commander of the armed forces, if that continues then it basically is a culling which in turn might raise suspicion of a self-coup because for brazilians they sure did very little damage to the capital's main strip. And to be fair it stinks because the main reason of the protests, according to the official narrative and media, was to poke the military's wattle and do something. Brazilians are between the wall and the sword, a foro gommie with prison time or a zog puppet who backtracked tons of ideas. Still, most importantly, how is dis wepon
>>46676 >how is dis wepon monke militaries is wepon
>>46676 Yeah I always knew Bolso was a ZOG appeaser, but like Trump some had hopped he would challenge the plandemic-era NWO policies (vax pass, essentially mandatory GMO injections, ect). The CdE I was referring to was the stolen election itself with the NWO having rescued Lula from prison as their puppet. Him ordering the silly parade (post Bolso cucking) opposition to get forced (((vaxxed))) definitely reveals his nucom alignment as opposed to just being a traditional comie. But yeah, mass democracy is an illusion because even if the elections aren't rigged the people are easily manipulated by media that is controlled by global central banking elites and their pawns. >>46669 >any non NWO approved narrative is 'conspiracy theory' or 'schizo' <Welcome to the fucking Orwellian brave new world m80.
>>46658 There's already the drug war, Brazil scrapes 60 thousand homicides in particularly bad years. You might remember pictures of the Army and marines occupying favelas in the early 2010s. But it's not taken seriously as a counterinsurgency, so it changes little. Even when cartels do get expelled, they're just replaced by militias. But civil war because of Bolsonaro isn't happening, southern separatism is a meme and NGO-fuelled indigenous separatism won't happen under a government so friendly to NGO backers. >>46676 >the main reason of the protests, according to the official narrative and media, was to poke the military's wattle and do something. The rioters were delusional for still believing the military would do somethig. They're useful idiot boomers who stood in front of military bases for two months after the election "trusting the plan" and believing Bolsonaro's military coup was just about to happen in the next 72 hours. And even after Bolsonaro turned out to be the pussiest president in Brazilian history, enough of them remained to try this chimpout. >if that continues then it basically is a culling That's already happening, they're blaming the military and police for being too lenient with the chimpout and this justifies the purge. Lula is even thinking of a National Guard, which would be the Army's nightmare as they'd lose their grip on internal security. Take a look at the Planalto Military Command, in the media there's already talk of the commander's replacement. Curiously, this command has long been held by a division general rather than an army general as other geographic commands, but there's a valid military reason, it only has a handful of forces. Outside Brasília lie the Special Operations Command and 3rd Motorized Infantry Brigade. Only the former is politically relevant, as it's the country's chief counterterrorism force. Bolsonaro's former aide was set to assume command at the 1st Commando Battalion, but has just been prevented from doing so. Relevant formations inside Brasília are the Army Police battalion, Presidential Guard Battalion and 1st Guard Cavalry Regiment. The later two are best known for their honor guards, but their actual use is as riot troops. This means there are three entire battalions of riot troops guarding the seat of federal power. The presidential guard's commander, who was lethargic in his reaction to the chimpout, has already been sacked. Also worth noting the Air Force's best interceptors are meant to be near Brasília.
>>46657 >>46658 Shush you can't say anything like that or you're a niggurpeel skit so.
>>46713 Heh, I'm just happy this place don't immediately ban me for not approving of the NWO. No doubt shills/bots/sheeple-bots are active on websites/boards that have serious traffic and allow uncensored discourse.
>>46710 >But civil war because of Bolsonaro isn't happening, southern separatism is a meme and NGO-fuelled indigenous separatism won't happen under a government so friendly to NGO backers. Whites/non-GMO-humans appear doomed in Brazil as well unless that changes TBH.
>>46733 Honestly surprised that a country with a recent history as rocky as Brazil didn't offer more resistance to the WEFkikes. It was expected that the European and Canadian governments would immediately sell out implying they weren't in on it but South America has traditionally been much less soy infused. There's still a possibility for uprising but you can't trust national or even regional leaders to step forward and take charge of it, it seems.
This is a mechanized cavalry platoon. "VTL Rec" are simple unarmored jeeps, one for the commander and four scouts. "VBR (M)" is an armored car, currently the Cascavel, to be replaced in the next 15 years by the Centauro II. "VBTP" is an APC (formerly the Urutu, now the Guarani), one is for infantry ("mechanized fusiliers") and one for an 81 mm mortar. Engesa's Jararaca project could've given the jeeps an armored replacement in the past, but it was a flop. I'm not sure about this table, how normal is it to have armor, infantry, scouts and fire support all in the same platoon as the standard, peacetime organization? Theoretically squadron (i.e. company) commanders can rearrange their elements into pure armor, infantry, etc. platoons when needed.
>>46737 Canada and the EU are basically NWO home-territory. Canada has been like a UN/NWO colony since Trudeau the Elder was their puppet. Although Canada's central bank was taken over much later than in the US... the 1970's if I remember correctly. >>46750 I suppose because counter-insurgency is the primary utility of the Brazilian armed forces for the NWO, having something of everything in a unit is the best deployment? Not sure though.
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>>46816 >I suppose because counter-insurgency is the primary utility of the Brazilian armed forces for the NWO For any order, really. Doesn't matter if it's for plantation barons or transnational elites, historically officers dream about running a respected conventional force and find themselves just quelling internal unrest on behalf of the social order. What's curious is that for a long time, dissident officers themselves were the source of unrest. >having something of everything in a unit is the best deployment? Mechanized cavalry is the worst example for this, along with armored cavalry (a combined arms armor/mechanized infantry force for brute offensives, it's what Americans call armor, not what they call mechanized cavalry) it's completely geared towards conventional warfare. All mechanized cavalry brigades are on thinly populated steppe borderlands. Their dependence on wheeled armor makes them very impractical for mountains and jungles. As you can see, each squad has only about 8 foot infantrymen. For internal unrest, you're better off looking into the Army Police's riot troops (though they're far less numerous than the main police, which is militarized and run at the state level) and the paratrooper-jungle infantry-special forces class, which is historically related. Paratroopers nowadays are just conventional, except for their pathfinder elite, but the other two would be prime counterinsurgency forces. What's curious is that they learned from the Araguaia Guerrilla War that to fight a guerrilla, you must become the guerrilla; and beyond that, they now consider the hypothesis of themselves becoming an insurgency to fight off against a great power invasion (like Euros invanding to "protect natives"). Hence, special forces would use their knowledge of stealth and infiltration to organize an insurgency from local jungle populations. It would be a dramatic inversion of their role shielding whoever's in power, but it's a wild fantasy.
>>46832 Most of Brazil is jungle or cleared jungle (like African safari). So I would imagine the focus should be on Air power followed by high mobility mechanized ground forces for the safari and airborne 'ranger' commandos (basically rambo) for the jungle. The only external invasion force I can see would be the NWO itself (EUSSR/NATO) if say Bolso had fought fire with fire and rigged the election so he would win instead. Alternatively, if the PRC goes to war against the NWO, they might attempt an invasion of South America but only after completely defeating the USSA in the pacific.
>>46837 The other option is if the PRC manages to capture a country in South America through NWO-like tactics. China could then move forces to that country and use it as a beach head for expanding Triad influence or as a proxy-state for the South American invasion. E.G the CCP captures the leadership of Peru and proceeds to flood the country with PLA soldiers and weapons in the name of keeping the peace, if a justification is even needed. The NWO would eventually react and cut transportation links from the Chinese mainland and Peru, but the Chinese could have enough time to destabilize the whole region. Of course, this relies on the PRC not being NWO and being expansionist.
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>>46837 >Most of Brazil is jungle or cleared jungle (like African safari). So I would imagine the focus should be on Air power followed by high mobility mechanized ground forces for the safari and airborne 'ranger' commandos (basically rambo) for the jungle. That's true for the Amazon, Brazil's intended defense is by watching the border with forward platoons and aerial detection; reacting with interceptors and light infantry specialized in jungle survival and infiltration; providing mobility with boats, helicopters and transport aircraft; and reinforcing with paratroopers and special forces brought from halfway across the country. But equipment falls far short of these ideas. The "safari" only applies to the central savannah (most of which has been replaced with soybean and maize fields), that's where the 4th Mechanized Cavalry Brigade is stationed, they could probably mop the floor with the Paraguayan Army in open battle on their own. Core Brazil is made of gargantuan cities (where any civil war would be decided) and agriculture, with hilly terrain crossed by some mountain ranges and little remaining native vegetation. There's an urban warfare training center near São Paulo. Northeast Brazil is similar on the coast, but the hinterland is a hostile, thorny shrubland. There's one battalion specialized for this terrain, but it's unlikely to ever see conventional combat. A coastal invasion, either towards the core or to the northeast (a strategic position in the Atlantic), sounds unlikely, superpowers could do it but it's easier for them to just subvert the country and foment a coup. Southern Brazil has good tank terrain at the Argentine/Uruguayan border, but relations have been friendly for decades, there's no reason to concentrate most of the Army's power there, and yet the generals still think like it's 1923. Insurgents spilling over from nearby countries make for a very plausible scenario because it has happened before with the FARC. In 1991 they even attacked a border post, provoking massive retaliation.
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If there's every any kind of guerilla-style civil war in Huezil I don't see how the government could win. There's so much land to cover, all of it dense rainforest, that as long as any guerilla keeps being a pain in the dick and attacking the cities/infrastructure it will bring the whole country into chaos, more so than it already is.
>>46895 >dense rainforest >cities/infrastructure Pick one, you either get the empty Amazon or the 90% deforested economic core.
>>46906 There are cities with infrastructure and dense jungles in Brazil why would someone have to pick one? Did you misunderstand?
>>46914 You can't attack the cities and infrastructure from the jungle like Mexican strelok seemed to suggest. The real fight would be in the Rio/São Paulo suburbs and Vietcong LARPers would be stuck halfway across the continent.
>>46914 It's like saying you can attack California from Louisiana, anon. At worst a no man's land would form on the outskirts. The forested and deforested areas of Brazil are fairly demarcated like how the United States has the 100th Meridian separating humid and arid regions.
>>46937 >>46938 Oh ok, so there aren't any reliable ways to do a hit and run attack. Never mind.
>>46895 It would heavily depend on that guerrilla's leadership, for example in Mexico the oaxaca/chapameco insurgency was squashed in a month via special forces' raids (local GAFE and cooperative Kaibiles) because the dumbasses had reunions with everyone of importance in a single spot, they got snitched and in two operations the government basically decapitated the whole thing to the point they have been going around like a headless chicken for 25+ years inside that very dense and mountainous forest. The timing of their insurgency was suspicious but gommunism aside they had a point, which was NAFTA being shit and the central government wanting to force the elimination of state education in favor of a monolithic brainwashing federal education. But BR anon is correct, the dense forest is far from the urban areas, i don't know how's the agriculture composition in Brazil because our local gommies did pose a menace to the hinterland production but in Brazil the rainforest is so massively dense and quite in the west and north of the country i don't know if it is even used to grow stuff in an organized way. >>46938 >It's like saying you can attack California from Louisiana I mean you kinda can as California has been living with only subsidized water, you can attack a desalination plant here in Mexico and a town in Cali will become dry overnight. Our state government practically blackmailed Arizona and California because of that, hence their panic when russian tourists came to visit that very specific little town with the plant some years ago :^)
>>46647 Something that always stuck out to me about south american/third world armed forces is they seem to be entirely separate from their governments. They’re not under the command of the government, but rather operate independently. It seems like this is part of why coup attempts are so common.
>>46737 The average south american is an 88iq glorified monkey that just does whatever the person with the biggest dick in the room tells them to. It’s why they swing between communism and fascism over and over. >help me win the coup and I personally will kill all the foreigners owning the means of production >help me win the coup and I personally will kill all the communists that stand in the way of us competing with the first world Back and forth it goes.
>>47002 Race didn't ruin South America, Socialism did. Specifically National Socialism in Brazil's case.
>>46942 The Araguaia Guerrilla War is funny, and a case of an incompetent insurgency meeting, after several tries, a brilliant counterinsurgency. <100 Maoists hid in the jungle, this was the biggest ever rural communist insurgency - you can see none of them were on a FARC scale. The local population was friendly but realized they were very intellectualized people from far away and saw throug their attempts at blending in. The insurgency never took roots to self-replicate on a lasting base of popular support, it could be taken out by simply killing the Party members, they had local collaborators but wouldn't replenish their numbers. And yet the first counterinsurgency offensives, with huge numbers of conventional troops, were useless shows of force. Military casualties were very low but conventional commanders didn't even know where the guerrillas operated. Then the troops were withdrawn and intelligence agents infiltrated in the area, disguised as merchants and other individuals. The glowies compiled information on the entire Party structure. Guerrilla-style special forces teams (callsigns, no identification on uniforms, good understanding of the jungle, etc.) were then deployed to hunt down the guerrillas, while iron-fisted curfews were imposed on the civilian population. Insurgents were captured, tortured for information and executed. After their leaders fell, the rest were disorganized. Very few managed to escape, and some of those who did were also killed on a raid against a Party meeting in São Paulo. Maoism was completely annihilated, the Party's survivors turned into generic leftist organization. >>47001 >Something that always stuck out to me about south american/third world armed forces is they seem to be entirely separate from their governments. They’re not under the command of the government, but rather operate independently. It seems like this is part of why coup attempts are so common. Theoretically not true with Brazil's civilian-run Ministry of Defense, but it's recent (1999). Historically each Armed Forces branch had its own Ministry, almost always selected among their own officers, and had a considerable degree of independence. There were also strong interservice rivalries. Officers still form castes with opaque, self-contained professional activities and social lives. At least in the Army, officers are mostly drawn from sons of officers. In the past the institution had more prestige but nowadays few in the population's higher IQ segments venture into an Army career. It's far from a dominant caste, they have to cling on to what privileges they still have, a decade ago they were respected but at present there's a strong anti-military feeling. What stops coups is that the average officer is an apathetic fence-sitter who wouldn't be rebellious even if he wanted to because he cares far more about not bothering his superiors and losing his chances of career progression. Even in the past, 90% of them were like this, they just got dragged along by revolutionary minorities at some points. Civilian-military separation was a source of coups, but not because of bureaucratic autonomy, higher-ups were usually loyal. It's because officers thought they were more meritocratic and moral than civilian elites (this, back when they still attracted talents). And later on in the 20th century, when they thought industrial development, internal order and the Army's interests were all connected and had to be run by the same people (themselves).
>>47053 socialism and simplistic nationalistic rhetoric forced down from the government heads have doomed most of Latin America to take bad series of terrible choices from the middle of the 20th century to this day
Feel for you OP, effort posting while everyone else in this thread so far has been utterly retarded. What can you tell me about the military industrial capacity of Brazil? In case of war, would they be able to produce a lot of new equipment? How does Brazil military industrial capacity compare to that of its neighbors?
>>47183 >What can you tell me about the military industrial capacity of Brazil? It used to be formidable for a Third World country, but much of it deindustrialized in the 90s. Brazilian armored cars, APCs and rocket artillery were widely used in the Iran-Iraq war and remaining vehicles were fighting Isis just a few years ago. Some large items can still be produced locally: KC-390 transport aircraft by Embraer, Super Cougar helicopters by Helibras, Tamandaré-class frigates by ThyssenKrupp South America, Astros MRLS by Avibras, Guarani APCs and soon, Centauro IIs by Iveco. Degrees of foreign technology vary from locally-produced foreign designs to local designs relying on foreign technology (itself, either produced locally or imported) for critical components (e.g. the KC-390 is said to be 60% national, but its engines have to be imported). The Navy has a nuclear submarine program based on the French Scorpene, the nuclear reactor itself is national, but the project has been dragging on forever. >In case of war, would they be able to produce a lot of new equipment? I guess it couldn't scale up quickly even under ideal conditions, even at its height military industry was only a minor fraction of the industrial economy. Maybe Embraer could because it also produces civilian aircraft. >How does Brazil military industrial capacity compare to that of its neighbors? It's better than any of them except Argentina. Argentine industry wasn't export-focused but got ahead of ours in some aspects and behind in others. In the 80s we had a low tech tank project that never took off (the Tamoyo), while they successfully got a low-tech Marder with a tank turret (the TAM). Their submarine production didn't get as far and they don't have an aircraft company as big as Embraer.
It's over for the former Foch/São Paulo, the Brazilian Navy scuttled it yesterday and it rests beneath five km of water. A Saudi group had made a last-minute offer to buy it, but at this point it was taking in so much water it'd just sink on its own if it had to be towed to another continent.
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>>46648 i did some training with the 5th regiment last year. they were pretty cool guys. it was pretty obvious that they didnt get nearly enough money though. their main building was collapsing and they managed to break out a whole 6 helicopters to move our entire company into the AO. the heli's in your pic are honestly pretty solid. definitely a better ride than a blackhawk with more troop space and much more utility for a utility helicopter lol. they buy them from the frogs iirc. the IA2 was pretty cool and nearly all of their troops seemed to have them. their mortar's and doctrine is kinda terrible though.
>>47053 As early as 1820 commentators in south america were saying that the whole continent was doomed to just being a revolving door of dictators because the local population was too stupid to create a functional american or european style democracy. I think it was Simon Bolivar himself (one of the most influential men in latin american political history) who said that it was hopeless to expect them to be anything other than second-rate. This was after decades of him being the leader of the revolutionary forces that led much of south america to independence from Spain and Portugal. After years of trying to teach them how to be civilised, he gave up and declared his entire life’s work was wasted on monkeys in suits.
>>47054 In the US, the armed forces are under the direct control of the executive (the US President, though these days the direct power is delegated to the Department of Defence for day-to-day operations. The DoD is still made up of people appointed by the president, though). The idea of the military outright defying the government is unthinkable as a result, because all of the high command not only takes orders from the president but also is mostly appointed by him and is thus usually people who would be loyal to him. The only way you’d get a military coup is if you could convince lower-level generals to oppose their upper command.
https://www.zerohedge.com/crypto/social-credit-brazilian-style-all-ubi-recipients-must-be-vaxxed >How to enslave/modify/cull the world 101. Anyone who got a vax post-2019 is no better than a monkey.
>>47553 Bolsonaro was preventing this, hence the elite Kikes got rid of him. The got rid of Trump even despite him going along with the Satanist plot.
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>>47554 Bolsonaro was literally a neoCohen Zionist you fucking muppet. Brazil is a premonition of America's future.
>>47564 Welcome to literally every single western power. The only anti-jewish political leaders are in third world brown countries that jews don’t care about/don’t see as a threat.
>>47564 Who say I didn't know that. He was still preventing the full slide into Borg (Star Trek) dystopia >>47568 Yup sadly Jews and their master satan appear to be the chosen (by satan) master race
>>47594 I hate these articles, they're so fucking useless. They never explain the possible technologies or how they might work or what exactly the threat vector is. All they say is >Creepy WEF man said thing about brain implants >That means they're ALREADY IN YOUR FOOD >Click here to buy my book.
>>47605 No shit. Articles about technology that doesn't exist, aimed at a readership more interested in being fearmongered to, and written in order to sell books, are obviously going to focus more on fearmongering and selling books than explaining the technology.
>>47605 >>47608 Yeah, if you want more info, you can look for it nyaaa~
Lula and Bidup met for the first time this week and Brazil's pretty much off the fence right now regarding the Ukros war. I have to admit, I'm honestly surprised Lula was so adamant about supporting NATO, but seeing as he's a CIA puppet (in the sense that he'd still be in jail if not for a little deal with the devil, plus the fact that his vice-president, (((Alckmin))) was basically placed there to make sure he doesn't stray off the line too much), it should have been obvious in retrospect. I do wonder how things will look from a diplomatic standpoint from now on, especially as Lula was one of the biggest proponents of BRICS back in the 2000s.
>>47709 >I do wonder how things will look from a diplomatic standpoint from now on, especially as Lula was one of the biggest proponents of BRICS back in the 2000s. What do you mean? He will just pretend that was always his opinion and anyone who says otherwise is guilty of wrongthink. They've always been at war with Eurasia.
>>47709 It’s been fascinating to see how the narrative on the CIA has pulled a complete 180 over the last 30 years. I remember growing up hearing from leftists about how the CIA were the devil incarnate for “destroying successful socialist nations in the name of the evil AmeriKKKorpo-fascist nazi Imperial police state”. Now I hear rightists say the CIA are “enforcing rainbow globohomo tranny communism on based and redpilled nations”. It’s like zoomers and late millennials were so successfully psy-opped by leftists that they can’t even form bogeymen of their own. They just repurpose cold war-era leftist propaganda and scrape out ‘capitalist’ and replace it with ‘communist’. I’ve seen them even blame domestic stuff on the CIA, even though the CIA are the FOREIGN intelligence office. Exact same schizo copes that hippies had in the 60s and 70s about how “we were never violent or committed domestic terror, it was the CIA staging false flags to justify crackdowns on the Labour Movement”
>>49141 People on the right have been saying the CIA was a corrupt political institution since its inception, same as the FBI. Always have. The left of the 70s (the timeframe you are reminiscing) had (some) principles unlike algorithmic leftism today. 70s: >Government uses its powers to strongarm for Republicans >Leftists bitch >Republicans tell them they were full of shit >Church Commission proves the Democrats were right 20s: >Government uses its power to strongarm for Democrats >Conservatives bitch >Democrats tell them they are full of shit >You are here So where's our church commission for the FBI?
>>49141 It's almost like they're complaining about authoritarianism and government violence and the modern conceit of left/right is almost entirely a relic of 1930s wartime propaganda
>>49141 It's amusing that you seem to think both scenarios aren't simultaneously true. The CIA did interfere with socialist countries to counter Soviet influence, and they are enforcing rainbow commie tyranny in the current year, for whatever reason. These things aren't mutually exclusive.
>>49141 > I’ve seen them even blame domestic stuff on the CIA to their credit, the FBI is basically the retarded little brother to the CIA. I have zero doubt in my mind that the higher ups of the CIA come and talk to the higher ups of the FBI to touch base with them and give them the gameplan going forward. Also, the CIA BTFOing socialist nations in the 60s and 70s has little to do with what they are doing now which is promoting gay anal sex and zionist governments across the globe. The socialism of the 60s and 70s has little to do with the industrialized homosatanic(enjoy those 5 dollar mix and match words) culture that is being pushed nowadays. Its just whatever the elites in NATO want, and what they want lines up with what jews want and what they want aligns with what satan wants. Not saying socialism of the past wasnt a bad thing, but it is an entirely different beast than what is happening today
>>49142 I never said they weren’t corrupt. I was criticising the habit of using them as a scapegoat for every single time some brown nation shits the bed with its domestic politics, and how /pol/acks accuse literally every single pozzed european politician of being a CIA asset. Essentially stating the CIA are some cloak & dagger NWO super agency pulling all the strings from behind the curtain. The Church Commission found that the CIA had performed isolated experiments to try and find better ways to spy on Soviet Bloc countries, and had performed clandestine investigations on domestic political activist groups on the suspicion that they were on the Soviet payroll (they were). Both of which were related to their raison d’etre of gathering intelligence on foreign powers. Zero claims or evidence that the CIA were themselves trying to take over the world or whatever the fuck the Left believed they were doing. >>49146 >they did subvert leftist countries Not effectively. The posterchild the leftists like to put up is Chile, but the reality is Allende was just an unpopular scumbag that the Chilean people wanted gone because of how he had destroyed the country’s economy. The CIA provided some intel to Pinochet’s supporters, but the actual coup was purely Chilean. And it was much the same elsewhere. The Nicaraguan Contras only received guns from them. Believe it or not, socialism is not sustainable. >they are now responsible for rainbow globalism Proofs? No, the ramblings of a schizophrenic computer programmer and the unibomber are not proof. >>49147 The FBI predates the CIA, and the CIA predates NATO. NATO is basically ran by the US government anyway. The FBI are basically just a detective agency with federal funding, they don’t even use the same tactics as the CIA. If anything, the NSA are the CIA’s retarded little brother. You’re basing your opinions on three letter glowniggers from jokes made on American Dad. >classic socialism was actually based and redpilled, it’s just the modern lefties who lost the plot Lmao, friendly reminder that the whole counterculture movement of the 1960s-1970s originated with left wing politics and the rejection of traditional social norms. Many of the books the nazis burned were leftist musings on how gender and race are social constructs that needed to be dismantled, and that the only way to do it was by molesting children. Commies have always been perverted degenerate transhumanists.
>>49168 >Essentially stating the CIA are some cloak & dagger NWO super agency pulling all the strings from behind the curtain. Which makes absolutely no sense to me because that's called the State Department and they do it in the open. The church commission also found that the CIA was directly going behind the government's back doing unconstitutional shit which was cut out (allegedly). >Many of the books the nazis burned were leftist musings on how gender and race are social constructs that needed to be dismantled, and that the only way to do it was by molesting children. And books about pacifism. And artwork critical of the German government's policies (such as Emil Ludwig's Napoleon biography for not being critical of the French). And what today would be reality TV. They could have stopped after burning the sex shit and Jew shit but they had to be filthy leftists trying to erase history and rewrite morals. Attachments related were all banned in Nazi Germany as degenerate art. Say what you want about leftists overreacting to book burnings, but to some extent they have a point when you look at how ideological the Nazis were in deciding what to get rid of and what to keep even at their own detriment.
>>49168 >>classic socialism was actually based and redpilled, it’s just the modern lefties who lost the plot at no point did I say this. I am aware of the leftist musing before the Nazis burned those books. I was simply saying that it was largely a different beast than it is today which is objectively true
>>49175 >bans garbage art, pacifist whining, and proto-reality TV I thought you were trying to make Nazi Germany look bad?
>>49215 Yeah and I thought anyone who flew that flag you used believed in the charters and rights set out by that government, so I guess that makes two of us that are confused.
>>49222 I believe in Dixie nationalism first and foremost. Freedoms are great as well, so long as they are restrained by morality. Since degenerate art, pacifistic (but not isolationist) morals, and reality TV shlock affect peoples' morality (and intelligence), often in a negative way, then yes, I support removing that shit.
>>49179 It really wasn’t. Antifascistaktion, the leftist paramilitary froup that wreaked havoc in weimar germany, was comprised almost exclusively of university students. There are lamentations in socialist philosophers’ circles from the 1930s that went on about how “the only people talking about class struggle seem to be upper class ladies sipping tea on their front lawns in-between arguments on what roles they will take after the Revolution”. Marx himself was the spoiled rich kid of Berliner aristocrats and never worked a day in his life, instead living off his inheritance and the cash of his wealthy benefactors. The more research you do on communism, the more you realise that it has not changed. Modern day leftism is the exact same beast it was in 1960, 1920, and 1880.
>>49238 >I believe in Dixie nationalism first and foremost Soul.
>>50237 As the old adage goes only the upper-middle class are financially secure enough to be communists.
>>49238 Real dixielanders didn’t swear allegiance to Dixie, they swore allegiance to their State. That was the entire point of them seceding. Not one single Virginian or Alabaman said “I am a Confederate”. They said “I am a Virginian/Alabaman”.
>>50479 >Real dixielanders didn’t swear allegiance to Dixie Then they were just larpers taking part in gay cianigger psyop polite sage as even I am disgusted by this shitpost
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>>47350 >As early as 1820 commentators in south america were saying that the whole continent was doomed to just being a revolving door of dictators because the local population was too stupid to create a functional american or european style democracy. Hard to argue against that. >>47351 >In the US, the armed forces are under the direct control of the executive (the US President, though these days the direct power is delegated to the Department of Defence for day-to-day operations. The DoD is still made up of people appointed by the president, though). The idea of the military outright defying the government is unthinkable as a result, because all of the high command not only takes orders from the president but also is mostly appointed by him and is thus usually people who would be loyal to him. The only way you’d get a military coup is if you could convince lower-level generals to oppose their upper command. Formal authority and appointing leadership figures isn't by itself what secures loyalty. In the 1960s the president and his cabinet did all they could to purge the upper ranks and place loyal generals in positions of command, aswell as loyal colonels in key regiments and so on. The president was, nonetheless, overthrown in 1964 and very few officers sided with him. Even officers who were supposed to be personally loyal joined the coup, because he was hated in the officer corps and their strong esprit de corps overpowered personal loyalties to civilians. Officers saw themselves as superior to civilian politicians and entitled to remove them, and oppositionist politicians thought it natural to ally with officers to seek power. Nowadays it seems different. Last year zealous Bolsonaro voters camped in front of dozens of military quarters demanding a coup to prevent Lula from assuming office. Nothing happened. Even if Bolsonaro thought of a coup, he clearly didn't have enough military enthusiasm for it.
The Brazilian Armed Forces are a paper tiger because they might have serious capabilities in a few areas, but can't bring it all together in a functioning conventional war effort because of their unseriousness in multiple other areas. What keeps Brazil safe is that other South American militaries are often like this, too. But take a look at antiair. To sum it up, there's nothing against middle altitude/middle range targets. Columns on land might defend themselves against drones and helicopters, and naval taskforces have point defenses, but it doesn't go much beyond that. The new Tamandaré-class frigates have one CIWS and short-range missiles, the flagship helicopter carrier has autocannons, and it doesn't get any more sophisticated than this. Land forces have SPAAGS (Gepards) and MANPADS, older Bofors and Oerlikons were deactivated this year. Last decade Pantsirs were negotiated with Russia, but the plans were dropped. For years the Ministry of Defense has a project to acquire a medium-range antiair system, but this might drag on for a very long time. On land, the Air Force's Gripens might be just barely enough to defend the Army against enemy aircraft and missiles. At sea, the Navy will have to keep its surface combatants hugging the coast, fearing anti-ship missiles, unless it's only fighting submarines.
Are there even any conflicts on the horizon in macaco lands? How does jungle warfare even look like? How is the military tackling the cartels ? What do you think would be the best way to remove cartels out of these southern shitholes?
>>54840 There's no such thing as a cartel without a corrupt army and an even worse judiciary. It's not uncommon for army weapons to fall into the hands of bandits and nobody even bothers to investigate; here in Brazil they've even found drugs on FAB planes and nobody cares; in Bolivia and Venezuela the generals are the biggest drug traffickers; this whole continent is a joke.
>>54840 >Are there even any conflicts on the horizon in macaco lands? No, everything always ends in samba and feijoada, practically all South American presidents are aligned with the São Paulo Forum, a communist event where they organize and discuss policies for the whole of Latin America, a great little club for communist dictators. The chance of any conflict in these parts is nil.
>>54840 >Are there even any conflicts on the horizon in macaco lands? Regular violence (50 thousand homicides per year) could already be considered a civil war, with cartels as insurgent groups. But nothing that looks like a regular war or insurgency is in the horizon. Maybe FARC or another insurgent group in the Amazon might dare to make another cross-border raid. For the past few decades, the nightmare scenario in the Brazilian military establishment is a First World country or coalition (e.g. France) invading a resource-rich area in the Amazon on behalf of "the environment" or "oppressed Amerindians". But this won't happen under the current leftist government. >How does jungle warfare even look like? In counterinsurgency: meticulously collect information with undercover agents, then behave like an insurgency, dispatching small, stealthy teams of special forces to decapitate the insurgent leadership and hunt down the remaining insurgents (the Araguaia model). In an invasion by a superior conventional military: apply the Vietnamese model (insurgency until the enemy loses the will to occupy your territory) In a conventional war with a peer adversary: Brazilian doctrine holds that this should be solved with a quick offensive, but that sounds unlikely, even if a lot of helicopters were used. In this theatre, civilian transport is mostly through rivers, roads are scarce and muddy. Hence the Navy should have some gunboats, but small transport aircraft will offer faster logistics from urban hubs to forward bases. Then use helicopters from those bases to the frontline. Maneuver forces will have to be light infantry, partly drawn from the local population or at least with local guides. Just as other terrains dominated by light infantry, forces will disperse into smaller groups and fight by infiltration. For a lengthy exposition, you could read this article by a Brazilian colonel, with American commentary at the end: https://web.archive.org/web/20170202122248/http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/amazon/amazon.htm >How is the military tackling the cartels ? Outside of border security, tackling the cartels is constitutionally a police, not military attribution, unless civilian authorities call in the Armed Forces in exceptional circumstances. But exceptional circumstances happen all the time, so you get >>46710. Garrisoning troops in the favelas was mostly a thing of the past decade, though. So nowadays the military isn't doing much. >What do you think would be the best way to remove cartels out of these southern shitholes? The Bukele model is highly successful, but El Salvador is tiny and even a strong dictatorship would find it difficult to scale that model to a continent-sized country. In any case, cartel removal would require a serious and creative counterinsurgency. It's not a generic "war on drugs" but a war between the state and insurgent groups defying its sovereignty (this is also a strong case for using the military, as the defense of national sovereignty is one of its normal constitutional attributions). Consider geography, for instance. The classical Rio favelas are defined by their density and inaccessibility to motorized transport - an impenetrable human hive. Maybe some highways should be blasted into them to give the state easy access. This will remove a lot of houses, but new settlements can be built elsewhere, or on unused land and buildings in the city center. Furthermore, the classical favela is built on a steep slope with access to a wooded mountaintop, offering escape routes for the insurgents whenever the state invades the area. Maybe there should be permanent military/police garrisons atop the largest massifs. None of this is happening, cartels administer favelas right beside upper-class neighborhoods, where the state is supposed to be at its strongest. If they've never been dealt with it's because they're part of the system and serve some purpose for the ruling classing. A better scenario under the current system is São Paulo, which has lower crime rates and is generally far better run than Rio. Apparently the dominant cartel has a deal with the government and enforces a reduced level of violence.
The Ministry of Defense's operational requirements for a medium range/altitude AA system, published in 2020, are in this pdf. They want launchers and missiles that can simultaneously engage with at least 16 targets at a maximum altitude of at least 15 km and a maximum horizontal range of at least 40 kilometers. Item 1.1, however, specifies that it must be adaptable to a maximum range of 80 kilometers with no modifications outside of replacing/adapting the launcher and missiles (so the radar and other systems must be flexible). Airlift capability for KC-390 and C-130 transports is a must. The Navy wants sealift capabilities for the marines. Back in 2014 MBDA partnered with Avibras to offer a CAMM-launching ASTROS. Its maximum range would be above 25 kilometers, so it wouldn't fit the 2020 requirements. But 40 km is still a modest distance. The USAF would have an easier time flattening Brazil than it had in Iraq.
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There are seemingly no ATGMs in operation. Several sources mention the Milan and Eryx were used in the past but have been discontinued, and it is exceedingly difficult to find information on them. Ten Spike LR2 launchers were purchased in 2021, but they haven't even arrived. An indigenous ATGM, the MSS, is tested every once in a while, but don't get your hopes up, this program is ongoing since 1986. I conclude the top brass is simply oblivious to this decades-old technology and information on their success in any war in recent years doesn't filter up to the High Command, which would much rather keep buying outdated MBTs and other flashy items just to keep up their hollow prestige. What's worrisome is that few seem to worry at all about ATGMs, which would provide some cost-effective deterrence for a poor military without threatening neighboring countries.
>>54871 weapons without a huge industrial overhead cost like man-portable systems are less desirable because they are harder to control and can threaten more complex weapons systems like the MBTs you mentioned. Tools useful for guerilla warfare are also useful for civil insurgency.
>>54873 (you don't sage just because you disagree) So the top brass will never buy ATGMs because it thinks cartels will get them? If that were the case, the Air Force would've never allowed the Armed Forces to buy MANPADS.
>>54891 (saging so as not to keep a thread at the top with incessant shitflinging between two streloks.) The Air Force is confident in their ability to circumvent portable anti-air weapons with planes that are invisible to radar. Why do you think that there is no interest in portable anti-air lasers? If you think about it there's nothing better for taking down distant, fast moving targets than a weapon with a velocity matching the speed of light in the same medium. It's not that we don't have the technology, it's that it's asinine to invent a counter to your own weapons systems.
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>>54973 >(saging so as not to keep a thread at the top with incessant shitflinging between two streloks.) If you mean the ones in past months, ignore them. Content (researching shithole country armed forces and reading the official sources critically) should be bumped. >The Air Force is confident in their ability to circumvent portable anti-air weapons with planes that are invisible to radar. But this is a shithole country we're talking about. The Brazilian Air Force isn't confident on anything, the best it has is the Gripen. Yet back in the 90s, when it didn't even have those, it consented to the Army's purchase of Iglas, and even got some of them for its base security teams. The Navy bought MANPADS for its marines, too. Nobody vetoed them on the basis that Rio cartels would be shooting down Air Force jets. And no jets have been shot down. Likewise, fears of cartels or other Brazilian insurgents getting ATGMs wouldn't be brought up. That's why I attribute the current situation to the High Command's vanity and technological conservatism. From a Third World perspective, weapons might even be produced locally, but they won't be bleeding-edge technologies. Only actual military powers can push industrial boundaries. What a sensible Third World, low-budget military should do is select among existing technologies those with the greatest cost-effectiveness for destroying an invader's expensive hardware. A poor investment for a high-tech military might be the best for a shithole country. Hence, jungle infantry brigades would ideally have large stocks of MANPADs, as a hypothetical invader would rely a lot on helicopters. A resource-rich, "pacifist" Third World military's rational purpose is to maximize the cost of a high-tech invasion.
So is Argentina gonna have a civil war because of the boomers?
Venezuela is saber-rattling over the Esequibo, the western half/two-thirds of Guyana it has always claimed. It's sparsely populated and has oil offshore. This motivates speculation on a Malvinas-style irredentist war. Guyana's irrelevant armed forces might tempt Maduro with an easy victory, but it would be a stupid move. There aren't even roads over the border, western Guyana is covered in undeveloped jungle. If you request an overland travel route from Georgetown to Venezuela, Google Maps will instruct you to head south into Brazil and then back north in the Boa Vista-Georgetown road. Maybe Venezuela can win if it tries hard enough with aerial and amphibious assaults and light infantry trekking through the jungle. But the United States would almost certainly intervene. Focused as it may be on Israel and Ukraine, there's no way they'd allow a landgrab war in their backyard. If Venezuela had to rely on aerial and naval supply routes to the occupied territory, those would be easily cut off by an USN carrier in the Caribbean. The alternative scenario would be Lula allowing Venezuela to move and supply its invasion force through Brazilian territory. The ruling party in Brazilia has always been friendly to Bolivarianism. However, this would anger the military and invite American retaliation. If American carriers pass by our waters, or American missiles hit Venezuelan supply lines in Brazil, there might be an impeachment or even coup d'état in Brasília. For those in power, nothing good can come out of this. Lula should be wise enough to avoid this path. >>58856 If they didn't have it back when coups and terrorism happened every other day, they won't have it now.
>>59347 If I was a chicom who is ready to invade Taiwan once the US too distracted with other conflicts, then I would definitely try to fan the flames over there. I don't expect that to happen anytime soon, but maybe it's a good idea to keep a tab on such potential conflicts and see if there is a pattern.
>>59347 Retard here, why would USA bother intervening? To make sure Russia and China don't intervene themselves?
>>59450 South America has always traditionally been the U.S.'s playground so they simply don't tolerate anyone else meddling in their sphere of influence. It's a split between defence concerns, glow nigger revenue raising and political prestige that means the US will probably, so long as they are able, keep South America exclusively under their control.
>>59347 Didnt USA make a deal with Venezuela to buy their oil in large quantities? If so messing with vuvuzela would cause a lot of economical fuckery.
>>59454 Yeah over the last two years of skimmed article headers it seems the US has started opening up to Venezuelan oil.
Under present circumstances, any outcome to this conflict would be negative for Brazil. If Venezuela annexes the Esequibo, our northernmost state (Roraima) would lose a weak neighbor and find itself surrounded on three sides by an unstable and potentially dangerous neighbor. Venezuela might give us the Pirara, a formerly disputed border zone lost to British Guyana, but it's not worth the price. If the Venezuelan invasion is annihilated by the United States, a permanent American military presence would be established in the region. And in either case, Brazil loses credibility as a regional power and guardian of stability. Under Bolsonaro's government, there'd already be a major military buildup in the border and explicit statements in support of Guyana's territorial integrity. Rumors of such a buildup already exist, but there's zero evidence for anything other than routine exercises by the small Roraima garrison, and every reason to believe the government is telling the military to stay put. The ruling leftist coalition wants a weak, humiliated military. Lula is pragmatic enough to give the generals concessions but he won't let them have the spotlight. Maduro's timing is no surprise. I still don't believe he'll invade. He just wants a cheap popularity boost to distract his populace from their economic woes. If he's too loud, an American carrier will show up in the area to dissuade an actual war. But imagine what the Argentine general staff was thinking back in 1982. "We have the most modern military in the continent, whereas the United Kingdom gave away its entire empire for free, it's a decaying power, gradually losing its ability to project power, and even if they can do it, their population won't have the stomach to fight a far off colonial war". And as it turned out, a decaying First World power could still beat a relatively modern Third World expedition. History might repeat itself. >>59450 For the same reason Russia intervened in the 2020 Azeri invasion of Artsakh. Latin America is the oldest part of the American empire and it'd lose credibility as a hegemon if it allowed this war with no consequences. And there's another reason: https://corporate.exxonmobil.com/locations/guyana >ExxonMobil is firmly established in Guyana, operating an office in Georgetown, with numerous ongoing exploration and development operations offshore. ExxonMobil Guyana is the first and largest oil producer in Guyana, and is the operator of the Stabroek, Canje and Kaieteur Blocks offshore. Over 25 significant discoveries have been made since May 2015, with production beginning in December 2019 from the Liza Phase 1 development.
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The only viable transport in undeveloped parts of the Amazon (broadly speaking, as the Guyanas aren't even part of the Amazon basin) is by river. There's apparently one viable invasion route for Venezuela through the Cuyuni river. That's better than relying on the sea, but would still be vulnerable to American retaliation. On closer inspection: https://www.britannica.com/place/Cuyuni-River >Although the river is approximately 350 mi (560 km) long, rapids impede navigation. Its economic significance is less as a transportation artery than as a source of alluvial gold and diamonds.
>>59454 >>59468 Not many choices when you've drained the strategic reserves selling it to China to keep prices down. Saudis don't really give a shit either since Venezuelan oil means they don't have to drill more and expose their own socialist welfare state.
>>59578 >ExxonMobil If there is one American oil company that seems to always pop up whenever shits a-brewin' it seems to be these chucklefucks. I swear they must be a direct arm of the US government at this point.

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