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body armor Strelok 07/27/2020 (Mon) 20:51:09 No.4494
anyone buy kevlar sleeves? I was looking at https://www.superiorglove.com/en/arm-protection/kevlar-protective-sleeves and am not sure what would be a good investment. Other site selling vests only sold gloves which doesn't seem like enough. Also any advice for how to plan to don this stuff rapidly in a safe area in emergencies? Like if there was home invasion with knives? Also wondering if there are any sleeves with NIJIII ratings against bullets since vests only cover torso. I've also read that material in bulletproof vests break down after two years, is that how often you need to buy them? Seems very expensive, wondering if some brands last longer than others.
The more stuff you wear, the slower you are in every way and the hotter it is. You won't get level III out of kevlar, you need poly plates.
>>4494 Don't waste your time and money with those. Though yes it's made from kevlar, it's not even a good quality kevlar. It's cheap crap, Anon. If you want something for your sleeves, look at the steel versions. >Also wondering if there are any sleeves with NIJIII ratings against bullets since vests only cover torso. Not possible, I'm afraid. It'd have to be hard enough to stop a Level 3 round and that means no flexibility. Look at medieval armor for example, think of it like that. >I've also read that material in bulletproof vests break down after two years Not exactly. It's more of the epoxy/glue/binder that starts to deteriorate over time. But yes, it would still need to be changed out when it recommends (though you could get away with a bit more). And as >>4495 said, the more you wear the more weight that is for you to carry. I got an adjustable weighted vest along with some ankle/arm weights and wore it all any time I wasn't at work. The more I got used ti the weight the more I added on. Really good idea there for you. Stay safe, Anon.
>>4494 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNdca5hO22U If you want stab/slice protection then get some of those chain mail gloves that butchers use. If you wanted to stop bullets then you would literally have to wear some kind of plate armor. It wouldn't be a sleeve, it'd be a gauntlet or a kote of some form. >Like if there was home invasion with knives? In fact maybe you consider a full suit of mail. >>4496 I've been recently pondering about availability of guns and ammo in a STHF. Around how long would you suppose that there would be high powered rifles and pistols and the rounds to feed then in a long term situation?
>>4506 Poly plates will stop all slashing and most stabbing. It's a good solution except for weight and cooling. I think a minimal polyethylene suit would weigh 30-40lbs, not including harnesses. A 10x12 (120 sq in) plate is 3.3 lbs. The average man will have 3000-3200 sq in of total body surface area. If you protect half of that, (1600 sq in) then you're looking at 44lbs of level III polyethylene plates. If you wanted a masterchief suit, then you're looking at closer to 80-90lbs of polyethylene, which means it would need to be mounted on a powered exoskeleton with full body cooling in order to be practical. That would only protect you to level III, so to get IV, you'd probably need an additional 20-30lbs or so for appropriate ceramics for head/torso, which would then give you something on the order of a 350-450lb footprint including the user, at which point you have to consider the structural integrity of any buildings you enter or the soil you're walking on, as well as the inertia constraints of being that large. Each additional component will also be that much more of a logistics headache, and donning/doffing it would be a huge process. All of which could be undone by .50 bmg, but a lvl III/IV combination exoskeleton system would be quite effective against poorly armed opponents.
>>4506 There's way too many variables that go into feeding something like a Glock or even a nugget. How much brass you currently have (and how many times they can be reloaded), whether or not it can cycle or fire reliably with black powder when smokeless runs out, sourcing/reusing primers, etc. I suppose if you already have a large supply of quality ammo, primers, powder, bullets/the means to make bullets, and the tools to put it all together, you could be shooting for a very long time. Have fun carrying it all around if you bug out, though.
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With the great boogaloo potentially on the horizon I recently had this idea of homemade body armor for a defensive scenario, think manning a barricade, the enemy not having overwhelming firepower. The goal would be protection against slashing and stabbing mainly but also against man-stop ammo low-veclocity shrapnel. It will obviously not be bulletproof but I had a look at some stats from shooting tests and a layer of quite thin metal will stop HPs any similar from expanding, albeit sending the bullet into a spin possibly. Do you think it's worth it? Bullets will still go through your body but probably don't rip you apart while doing so. Downside armor is heavy. >pic kinda related it's a simple design, materials readily available, quite easy to manufacture in a week and time-tested I thought about reinforcing the metal with a composite plastic layer (similar to the stuff for plastic trash containers, not the brittle variety, though) and I've read somewhere to use felt. I see it could catch metal pieces but otherwise this is not really my area of expertise. Thoughts?
>>4511 If you get hit you are going to become disabled no matter what, and if you become disabled while the cunt shooting at you is still very much in mood for killing you, I think it will largely be a mere academic interest wethever or not HP ammunition started expanding when the murderhobo is emptying rest of the magazine into you. And if you are in a fortified position and you still end up getting stabbed there is no helping you. You have done things terribly wrong, and you should feel bad.
>>4515 Well, there's being hit and then there's being hit. Sure, you're disabled either way but that doesn't mean your enemy can get at you to finish the job. Fortifications are no guarantee as history attests and there's enough reasons, fire for example, you might have to trade safety for something. You sure you wouldn't be hit rather by ball than HP if you had the choice?
>>4506 I have considered buying some chainmail armor to protect my torso and arms from knife attacks. Does anyone have experience with them and where to get one? I have looked around but I mainly find cosplay shit, and I lack welding equipment.
>>4511 >>4516 bullet performance vs barriers https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/lodge/barriers-and-ammo/ >>4517 Tried some history shops? Some of these guys are incredibly serious about their hobby and their shit's actually working. Maybe use other search terms to find something that might do the job.
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>>4506 Air rifles will be around for quite a while, considering the bullets are just bits of metal and you don't need powder. Not exactly high powered, but the better ones are good enough for game hunting, even the most dangerous game. Blackpowder weaponry will probably stick around for the long haul since it's relatively easily manufactured even with medieval-tier gear. >>4511 Segmentata isn't easy to manufacture, nor maintain. It all needs to be fitted to your body specifically. There's a reason it fell out of use as the Empire declined. Chainmail hauberks and gambesons are where it's at for easy slashing/stab protection and safety from arrows at least. Wouldn't particularly trust either one with saving me from bullets though. Even cuirassier plates weren't up to that task, and they were built for it. The Germans made bullet-proof metal trench armor, but it was so heavy it made you more or less immobile. If you want bullet-proof, just get a plate carrier.
>>4510 I think the point is that you're not bugging out if you're going to manufacture ammo, you're defending the house/neighborhood/homestead/crackden.
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>>4517 https://www.by-the-sword.com/isearch3?searchterm=chain+mail This place has a lot of chain mail. Some of it's LARPshit but it does have a lot of real mail. It's all mild steel though so you would have to heat treat it to make it truly tough. >and I lack welding equipment. Mail can also be riveted together This place is also an option. You would have to do it all completely from scratch but they do have good hardened carbon steel rings. https://theringlord.com/cart/shopdisplaycategories.asp?id=1&cat=Rings They also have brass, bronze, and copper rings which is what that Cody guy on youtube used for his chain mail. Red metal is not nearly as hard a iron and steel of course but it would still offer some protection, especially from stabs from smaller blades and from slashes of all kinds, and it can be brazed together with just a hand torch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViJXLsVtdBk
>>4517 Chain mail will not protect you from stabs very well without very obvious layers of coth like Gambeson
>>4517 https://youtu.be/WzhAhRZzCrA I would consider this instead; Easy to make and actual protection from stabs.
>>4533 The main problem with chain is being stabbed by very thin points like a stiletto or a sharpened screwdriver. If someone comes after you with a folding knife or a kitchen knife then chain would likely protect you just fine. You still want padding to distribute and dampen the power of a blow regardless. >>4534 >Easy to make But not quite as easy as chain because you have to have access to, or be able to make, the plates. You also have to have fair sewing shills to make the cloth part of the armor. Also chain is more forgiving in the sizing department. If I was going to choose Brigandine then I wouldn't even try to make it and I would just purchase it from a good source. Now a coat of plates I might try to make myself, provided I could get or make the metal scales that make it up.
>>4506 I'm a Brit, so I can't answer that for you. But I've stocked up on a couple of thousand of each type I need, for sports, of course. But if I were to guess, I'd guess that they'd try to close the stores and stop you from buying rounds. If not then the demand for it will all shoot right up so companies will be making more and more anyway. But if everything shut down, I'd say a couple of weeks TOPS since everyone will be panic buying. It's always best to have too many rounds spare.
>>4494 >anyone buy kevlar sleeves? No, because you can buy Slash Resistant Pullovers that are much better to wear. I have worn one of those together with a SK1 vest during my time as a professional Rapefugee-Herder in 2016 in Germany at a Rapefugee-Camp. They are useful against the Shivs and Kitchenknifes these type of people like to use, they protect your arms from being scratched up and are comfortable to wear. However they are only useful if you actually have to get close and personal with people. >I've also read that material in bulletproof vests break down after two years, is that how often you need to buy them? If they break down after two years that is a shit vest, usually the bulletproof vest used by the Police here in Germany hold 5-10 years. You can get a working vest already for 250€, by 10 years that is 25 bucks a year. If you buy a good bulletproof vest for around 800+ Euro, that is still just 80 bucks a year. Its pretty worth to spend 80+ bucks a year to have a chance of not dying a miserable death. >>4495 >The more stuff you wear, the slower you are in every way and the hotter it is. A pullover will not slow you down and if its warm you will sweat in your vest regardless of what you wear. I once wore just a thin t-shirt and wide airy cargo pants and I was still sweating in my vest like crazy during summer. >>4517 >I have considered buying some chainmail armor to protect my torso and arms from knife attacks. Does anyone have experience with them and where to get one? There are some companies in Europe that sell modern chainmail armor against slash and stab attack for security guards. One of them is Ziegler. https://ziegler-metallgewebe.com/en/industries/safety/security-shirt/ another is https://www.bsst.de/de/koerperschutz-shop/p9_secu.html Expensive for just a Anti-Stab vest, but nice to wear compared to other Anti-Stab vest made of Nylon, Plastic and Kevlar.
>>4525 >Segmentata isn't easy to manufacture, nor maintain uhm, unless you speak from experience I checked some websites of people fabricating and using them and the consensus seems to be that an unskilled person can make one in under a week, provided he has some basic tools, and maintenance is easy because you can just replace a damaged part. It's the same with chainmail but it takes significantly longer to make. As for stopping bullets, I know it won't, the added bonus to its primary function as a protection against bladed weapons is turning HPs into a more ball type bullet. >If you want bullet-proof, just get a plate carrier. Fair enough but two years into the apocalypse there might be no shops around and supply is only old stuff leaking epoxy. Also just one or two hits and you need a new carrier. I guess you don't have them in the dozens in your garage.
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>>4548 I'm going by what I've heard some reenactors say and the historical view of why it was discontinued over time. If you can fit it to yourself properly, maybe you're right. Not so sure how easy that is though. Making chain might be slow, but it's very easy. As for bulletproof protection: Not really necessary in my country. Legal guns are nearly exclusively owned by hunters, and our military and police aren't nearly as zogbot as US ones. Armed gangs are a thing, but if order breaks down, they'd be too busy to shoot each other to shoot at me. And I'm far out of the city in the first place. As for stab-proofing, I've got a full historical Teutonic knight outfit. I'll be fine.
>>4494 >I've also read that material in bulletproof vests break down after two years I don't have any pictures here but I purchased a surplus german flak-jacket made in the late 90's, pulled out the rear aramid panel and shot it to test. It stopped 22lr, .38 special, 9mm fmj's, 12ga 00buck and a 12ga slug though you'd probably be dead after that anyway I didn't test it with .357 or .44 mag but it's at least NIJII standards. Not saying you should trust your life to surplus shit, but it worked a lot better than nothing. All the anons posting about armor construction reminded me of this vid of a kid making fiberglass bullet-resistant plates youtube.com/watch?v=_7jiIQOgwtI
Realistically I think the best sort of armor is a combination between chain and plate (e.g. samurai armor, mirror armor, etc.) If you have absolutely no access to even ghetto backyard smithery then full chain seems to me to be the best bet since all you need a single base material (metal rings, or metal wire if you're going at it from scratch) and only a few tools. Beyond that it's not a lot different from knitting or crocheting. This is for slice stab protection. If you need bullet protection then you're either going to need modern materials or at minimum hardened, thick plate armor that's angled in such a way to partially deflect bullet impacts. If you're having to worry about rifle rounds then I don't really see much of an option other than carrying around a big shield made of three or four inch thick Lexguard. That might be a bit cumbersome and heavy though, I'm not really sure how heavy Lexguard is.
>>4548 >>4556 Making movie/larping chainmail is easy. Making something that will protect you is not. The videos you see are people looping chain which will break with little effort from an attacker. Proper chainmail is rivetted together and requires a lot more expertise to work. You're better off buying a proper stab vest you can rely on instead of gambling on the cheap shit you find on etsy DON'T BUY LARPING VESTS AND EXPECT THEM TO WORK. YOU WILL END UP DEAD
>>4565 Weeb armour is terrible. As soon as Europeans were introduced they quickly switched over to using European style armour.
>>4569 If its also just slash resistance against bladed weapons, one can also look up clothes of Eruopeans worn in Modern times. They didn't just dress fancy, many things had a practical propose.
>>4562 >youtube.com/watch?v=_7jiIQOgwtI Wow really impressive strelok, this came just in time. Did anyone catch how many layers of the welder's plane he used? Anyways is there a reason plates are always completely hard, I know inlets for flak jackets are not, but I would think a composite resin able to bent somewhat is better at dissipating the energy transmitted by the bullet.
>>4569 >As soon as Europeans were introduced they quickly switched over to using European style armour. No they switched over because Europeans introduced firearms to Japan. Firearms were the exact same reason that mail gave way to heavy plate in Europe too.
>>4578 Japan came into contact with firearms before they had contact with Europeans.
>>4572 You want hard plates because they dissipate kinetic energy the fastest with the least amount of bodily harm. If you used something that bent under stress, well.... where is that bullet gonna go? Kevlar inserts can stop bullets but will badly deform and can still cause injuries like bruises, broken bones and internal bleeding. A guy makes a bullet-resistant plate in this one out of ceramic tile, books and tape, pretty wacky. youtube.com/watch?v=Ny7fXBZS6Bk
>everyone but one guy ignores that lvl III poly plates exist >everyone but one guy ignores that lvl IV ceramics exist why the FUCK is anyone here talking about kevlar?
>>4583 >muh kevlar >muh poly >muh ceramic You guys make it seem like you'll always be able to shop around and have your stuff send to you the next day. I don't know where this consumerist attitude comes from but how about you think two steps ahead and think what you can actually do when SHTF. I'm sure it won't involve kevlar or ceramics.
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>>4585 Indeed, we will see the return of earthen fortifications. First it will be 20th century trenches, then 19th century ones, and in the end we will see bronze age fortifications.
>>4587 >guy in $4K tacticool gear gets effed by unwashed caveman with shitty neolithic stone ax dangling from hemp rope above appreciate the laugh tho
>>4583 I wonder if you could make your own ghetto cermet? Maybe based on porcelain since that's already very hard. >>4587 >Indeed, we will see the return of earthen fortifications. God I hope so. I love star forts >>4415
>>4585 >I don't know where this consumerist attitude comes from but how about you think two steps ahead and think what you can actually do when SHTF. Its called being prepared. We have now over a decade of /k/ talking about what to do and what to own for a SHTF situation and that list never really changed, only the available supply lines changed. If in all these years you didn't get a useful set of weapons, Belt kit and some body armor, you can only blame yourself. If you are an Oldfag, then the day to get ready was yesterday, if you are a Newfag the day to get ready is today, not tomorrow.
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This was the thing I was talking about before. I only just now found my pic.
>>4593 >two years into the boogaloo >b-but muh credit card You can sit on your good stuff all you want, there will be the day there you won't buy your way out of this anymore. Then it's back to basics so unless you know how to manufacture your own replacement plates or whatever in your basement your fucked. I don't wish you harm but I don't get this opposition to people who make their stuff on their own. HAte reloading, too? You invested in AR500 or something?
>>4607 >reloading In the long term that doesn't seem viable to me. At least for most people. At some point you would have to start making your own powder and primer and I don't see most people having the knowledge to do that or if they do to do it safely. Even regular old black powder's kind of a pain in the ass because of the sulfur requirement.
>>4610 That's really a problem, especially for semi and full auto's.If people start reloading regularly in an ever deteriorating supply situation this will drastically decrease quality of cartridges, bullets and propellants up to the point of your AR not working anymore or just for short burst. Maybe this will be the hour of the AK, who knows As for BP you can do without sulfur, using just sugar and rust IIRC but this's really SHTF scenario and performance is probably abysmal, barely suited for anything else than muzzle loaders. Good thing is propellant degrades not too much, I've seen people digging up WW2 ammo single small arms cartridges from earth and exploding them, though I don't know how much of performance issues you'd get if you were to use them for reloading. Primers are a problem on their own. It's possible to make them but reliable? Yeahhh .... Safe? lol
>>4607 >You can sit on your good stuff all you want, there will be the day there you won't buy your way out of this anymore. You can play the tough survival guy all you want, but the fact of the matter is that this day isn't now and at the moment it isn't efficient to go into home production of body armor. The time you are wasting is better spend making money and getting the supplies you actually need to keep a stable life for months after SHTF. Once SHTF and you have a shit tone of free time because your economic and social responsibilities from previous times are mostly gone, you can sit down with your supplies&books and develop the skills needed to replace worn down equipment. >I don't wish you harm but I don't get this opposition to people who make their stuff on their own. The point is not that you make your own stuff, the point is that you are wasting your time on retarded stuff that isn't valuable now and will not be valuable for a long time even after SHTF.
>>4632 He has a point though. Ceramic plates will degrade, so they will be great to have if you need them within the next few years or can repeatedly replace them. But if it takes longer than you think, something like steel plates that last longer would be good. Another example is tritium powered reticles. If you got one 10 years ago it would be mostly burnt out by now so useless at night. If you can plan your gear to be useful over the long term, it could pay off and maybe even save you money that you can use for other stuff. After all time is money and by buying shit you are spending your life hours.
>>4639 >steel plates How thick and what grade of steel would it take to stop most hand gun and possibly some rifle rounds? >Ceramic plates What about making your own? Spark plug ceramics are damn hard and I think that's just fused alumina. Hard fired porcelain is pretty hard too.
>>4632 I'm not even in disagreement about buying gear now but there's a lot of folks around that have been prepping longer than you seem to live and seen too much of expensive shit just rotting away over the decades. So the time to worry what then is now as good as ever but I'd rather have my skills developed sooner than later. Can't see the harm in that and come on, it's not exactly an ineffienct waste to make your own plates for $30 bugs as the dude in that video above did in a day. youtube.com/watch?v=_7jiIQOgwtI Seems pretty efficient to me and you can do that every year rather cheaply with your gear always fresh off the shelf compared to buying new quality plates every decade over your lifetime, no? Add some layers if you don't trust his method or don't at all, your call >>4640 >How thick and what grade of steel would it take to stop most hand gun and possibly some rifle rounds? Had seen some tables once but off the top of my head way too thick to be useful unless you're satisfied with an HP turning into an (potentially still lethal) hole punch. Car door thickness sheet metal would be enough for that. Else maybe an inch, something like an heavy oven door
>>4610 Sulfur can be found with salt deposits and traces in many other ore deposits. Easy to extract too, thanks the low melting point. And then there's volcanic rock and volcanic regions of course. Saltpetre on the other hand is a bitch to extract, since it requires quicklime, which means limestone + kilns, and then you rot quicklime, urine, earth and straw together and boil that delicious mixture down, then filter it with additional quicklime. And you need a lot of the stuff, unlike sulfur.
>>4640 AR500 steel (what you'd use for a steel target) with truck bed liner for anti-spalling, and some extra padding behind it for anti-trauma. For thickness just copy what you see commercial offerings using. You won't be able to bend the steel without degrading its effectiveness though, so you're probably best off covering a small area because a flat piece of steel will be uncomfortable and hard to breathe in. Or instead of using it as portable armor, just use it to armor-up a fixed position for cover. >>4642 Quality pistol and rifle rounds will go clear through a car door FYI
>>4645 >Quality pistol and rifle rounds will go clear through a car door FYI like cutting through hot butter, sure, the point is it's enough to keep HPs from expanding FWIW
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>>4646 If that's all you want farmer armor should work as well and be much lighter. Plus it can actually stop very small calibers
>>4651 >If that's all you want nahh, I want something super easy to make at home against stabbing and cutting, defeating HPs is just a bonus though a welcome one. You can live with ball passing through your waist but taking an HP, anywhere actually, bad times lol >heavy clothing I don't know what kind of clothing they tested here but expansion was well within parameters https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/lodge/barriers-and-ammo/ compare that to the effect of sheet metal
>>4652 Look at fiberglass lamnanents. I think a couple of welding blankets and a can of the right epoxy, pressed together with a few tons of force. Is exactly what you are looking for. Could even get exotic and add metal meshes as a few layers. Now you can saw through this kind of stuff. With effort and proper tools. So you could make some different plate shapes.
>>4749 >Look at fiberglass lamnanents. Yeah, it's in the video posted above, thanks nonetheless for the headsup, this is certainly the direction I'll be going. I don't know though how small those plates can be manufactured so as to still give some protection. For a comfortable wear (much) smaller would be better but I'm not sure a system of platelets of say 2" by 4" especially in the shoulder area wouldn't be simply pushed aside even if it didn't break. Now, there's obviously a lot of small stuff that is marketed as bulletproof but I really don't know about the protection it affords. It basically boils down to the question if plates are mainly manufactured the size they are because of economical reasons or if there's indeed a lower treshold below they are useless. Any informed opinions anyone?
>>4568 >Proper chainmail is rivetted together and requires a lot more expertise to work They can also be welded together. Or both actually.
>>4610 >>4630 Sulfur is honestly the least concern. You pretty much need some sort of nitrate, which means you either have access to saltpeter of some sort, or are able to synthesize it, which honestly doesn't seem that hard. And at that point, you're 90% of the way to nitric acid, which means you might as well be making nitrocellulose. I've been looking at the possibility of doing Haber-Bosch -> Ostwald process, the Ostwald process seems to honestly be the easiest way of of making almost any nitrate once you have ammonia, since it just needs O2 + NH3 + a platinum catalyst (car exhaust catalyst), and a bit of heat. Haber-Bosch is pretty easy too, just N2 + H2 + a fuckload of pressure and patience. H2 + O2 can be trivially made in almost perfect purity with electrolysis, N2 needs either an air separation filter or fractional distillation of air, which is probably the hardest part of this whole mess. The rest is just compressors, heat supply, and some pressure vessels, and enough electricity to run the whole affair. Primers are much harder, but if they require too much work, you could probably just use electric ignition without too much trouble.
>>4814 >Sulfur is honestly the least concern Not if you're talking about matchlocks and flintlocks and the like. I don't know if really need it caplocks and modern cartridges obviously don't. >Primers are much harder, but if they require too much work Making primers from scratch would be the touchiest shit ever. Fulminates and azides are not to be fucked with lightly. >you could probably just use electric ignition without too much trouble. But where you get your electricity from? If you're in a position to have to think about making primers from scratch then hopping down to the store to but a 9 volt probably isn't in the cards either. I guess you could make a piezoelectric spark device but I'm not sure how to go about that.
>>4814 Primers are piss easy provided you've got standard book matches. Take standard primer out, disassemble, add matchhead dust with some of the striker tape, reassemble carefully and these you go.
>>4817 >Making primers from scratch would be the touchiest shit ever. Fulminates and azides are not to be fucked with lightly. Thankfully you only need tiny quantities, so I'm more concerned with availability of the feedstocks, but yeah, it's certainly not ideal. >But where you get your electricity from? Honestly could be as simple as a spring powered dynamo or a lead-acid battery in your backpack and a coil pack. Post-collapse I'm assuming electric generation is going to outlast the primary stockpiles of ammunition, since it's going to be a very long time before we're out of alternators and washing machine motors to salvage. Dry cells will probably be depleted before ammunition is, even lithium ion cells will probably be worn out or dead from storage by that point
>>4817 >But where you get your electricity from Solar powered guns? Maybe hook up the dynamo of a crank-operated lamp to your gun to end up with a neo-wheellock look.
>>4820 >Solar powered guns? Growing silicon wafers are to fiddly. >Maybe hook up the dynamo of a crank-operated lamp to your gun to end up with a neo-wheellock look. Now that's an idea. I kind of like that.
>>4754 >size of plates The size of the plates doesn't affect the protective value that they provide. A 4'x6' plate rated NIJIII will provide the same protection as a 10"x12" plate rated NIJIII. Most ballistic plates are 10x12 as that size will cover the vitals for almost everyone, like a one-size fits all (for the front and back). As for armor construction, you want your ballistic plates to at least stop 55gr 5.56 unless you are in an area where that isn't a concern (the ghetto or whatever) I was thinking if you took the fiberglass hard plates from that video above, glued ceramic to the front and a metal plate to the back it could (possibly) stop 5.56 like an improvised SAPI plate
So I've found this https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/archaeologists-unearth-4000-year-old-siberian-knight-armour-102090 Sorry but no archive >Wayback in september of 2014 in ruskieland, archaeologists reported on the discovery of a suit of armor made entirely of bone, which belonged to an ancient Siberian knight who lived around four millennia ago. >The armor consists of different plates made up of small fragments of bone that have been joined together. Testing is being conducted to determine the type or types of animals that the bone came from, but it is suspected to be from deer, elk, and/or horse. Analyses are yet to determine its exact age but Siberian archaeologists say it dates back up to 3,900 years. >Yury Gerasimov, a research fellow of the Omsk branch of the Institute of Archaeology and Ethnography, said that the bone armor would have belonged to an elite warrior and would have given “good protection from weapons that were used at the time - bone and stone arrowheads, bronze knives, spears tipped with bronze, and bronze axes”. > “While there is no indication that the place of discovery of the armor was a place of worship, it is very likely. Armor had great material value. There was no sense to dig it in the ground or hide it for a long time - because the fixings and the bones would be ruined,” said Gerasimov. >The Bronze Age bone armor is also inconsistent with the style and trends of the Krotov culture, which inhabited the forest steppe area of Western Siberia, and more closely resembles that of the Samus-Seyminskaya culture, which originated in the area of the Altai Mountains, approximately 1,000 km away, and later migrated to the Omsk region. This has led archaeologists to propose that the suit of armour may be a war trophy, or it could have been a gift or exchange between cultures. So this gives me a question are bones usefull as a material for armor? And is there more stuff from this.
>>11365 Bone armor was significantly weaker than basically all of the technologies that replaced it. Bone is relatively soft and brittle, and it degrades pretty quickly. On the other hand, it looks really cool.
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https://www.menshealth.com/trending-news/a35110768/us-military-finally-designs-body-armor-for-women/ https://archive.is/USyny >The U.S. military is slowly, but surely, moving to body armor that is comfortable for both men and women, allowing soldiers, sailors, Marines, and airmen of all types to wear clothing better tailored to their gender. >The armed forces are increasing the diversity of body armor sizes and accommodating the needs of the troops, from helmets for those with longer hair to armor that's easier for bladder relief. >The Pentagon, USA Today reports, is responding to growing numbers of women in the ranks—21 percent of the Air Force, 20.2 percent of the Navy, 15.4 percent of the Army, and 9.1 percent of the Marine Corps—by making more body armor options available for female service members. >Sexual dimorphism, a biological principle across all animal species, means human females tend to be slightly smaller than human males. Women and men also have a variety of different physical traits, obviously. The result, then, is that body armor built for men is often less than ideal for women. >This content is imported from {embed-name}. You may be able to find the same content in another format, or you may be able to find more information, at their web site. >The services have all tackled this issue in unique ways. The Marine Corps issues a wide variety of body armor sizes to male and female Marines. The Air Force issues lightweight armor to female airmen specifically designed for women. The Army introduced the new Generation III Female Improved Outer Tactical Vest (seen above) in the early 2010s and has developed a new lightweight helmet designed to fit hair wound into a bun, as well as extra-small body armor for bomb technicians. >Until recently, the military hasn't really addressed the issue of female urination in the field. As a result, female soldiers experienced greater infections and drank less water, making field duty considerably less pleasant for women than for men. In 2016, the Army introduced the ill-named FUDD, or Female Urinary Diversion Device. The FUDD allows female soldiers to pee standing up, without having to partially disrobe. >The new body armor options, as well as new kit like the FUDD, address the reality of a mixed-gender military. More comfortable, better-rested troops who don’t have to worry about where they're going to pee next are simply more effective troops. And more effective troops lead to a more effective military—and a better-protected nation.
>>11657 I still want to know why we let such inferior quality people into the military, let alone ones that need so many accommodations, special versions of body arm, etc.
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>>11657 I really feel like that if I was the dictator of my small country, then in about two decades I could bring up the armed forces to a level where we could get invaded democratized by the US, and comfortably slaughter them down to the last men transnignog.
>>11659 I bet you one-hundred percent that little fucking niggercattle kid and his kony child soldier friends with literal orc weaponry would school the fuck out of these false bravado dykes any, season and any time of day. >first they dehumanize you for ZOG >tell you to address women as "equal" fighters >then they tell you to wear their high heels for ZOG >tell you to die for ZOG Imagine being a fucking gay zogbot LOL >SoonTM: ZOGbotslaves chop their cock off for the equality certified gibsnigger paygrade and for ZOG who will then bonesaw their limbs off for implants becoming a cybertranny superSOYldier just like in quake 3 stroggification
>>11678 >I bet you one-hundred percent that little fucking niggercattle kid and his kony child soldier friends with literal orc weaponry Anon, that's the future warrior of Amerika: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/02/01/potd-the-future-warrior/
>>11658 Part of subverting a country is destroying the military by filling it up with low quality soldiers with no real loyalty to the country in question or even a will to really fight at all, and women are perfect for that.
>>11691 Their goal isn't to subvert our countries Anon, it's to destroy them. The Western Tradition and it's traditional Christian mores and ethics are the only things they see standing in the way of their one global government plots and schemes. Any sizable population of indignant Whites are hard to control. Hordes of brown golems -- regardless of their actual numbers -- are easy to control. Your subversion into degeneracy is just a step along the path to your & yours' death. This is their goal for you.
These sleeves are designed for security use, to protect against mainly knives- but also abrasions because open cuts present a HIV risk. But you will find many garments that are slash proof to varying degrees. I have one knifeproof jacket that is made out of a natural cactus polymer fiber. I have one jacket that's full skin leather. The problem with these is that other people can grab them, and when you are dealing with multiple assailants that is a huge deal. A lot of these sleeves are fake though, being expensive and sold online to largely uneducated consumers.
>>11658 Part of it is just decadence. The US hasn't really directly fought an equal power in an unlimited war since World War II and we've spent the past 40 years just playing in the Sand Box. We don't have any expectation of having to give anything close to 100% of our military to any sort of war effort. None of the wars that we're in of have been in for decades really mean anything and even outright losing any of them wouldn't be an existential treat to us. In that sort of environment foolishness and boondoggles breed like rabbits.
>>4630 If civilization really goes down the path of the collapse of all logistics, where reloading is gonna be niggeriging accidentally found materials and coping with a limited supply of spare parts, investing in autarc manufacturing capabilities would be your first hurdle. Back to basics, machines can break too. To leave out an awful lot that could be written here, maybe a return of needle rifles, but even getting a more primitive black powder and musket production up and running may be hard enough to be quite honest. I may seem pessimistic, but when was the last time anybody actually began from scratch when tinkering with their funs, and by scratch I mean the beginning of the Iron Age. Everything is bought from the store or online. That should be invested in, to be able to restart civilization and defend it. Very primitive stuff by today's standard, but almost rocket science for somebody thrown into the big shit.
>>14160 We have the distinct advantage of knowing what works, but somebody should really organize that knowledge, and also try out in practice if it can be done. Realistically speaking, the greatest problem would be to keep the basic units of the metric system accurate enough to rebuild it. But a much greater problem is that it would be too great of an effort, and you'd have to teach it to enough people that at least a few of them are going to be able to go through it if needed.
So I understand actual rifle plates but what difference is there in soft body armor? I want a concealable, stabproof, IIIa vest but don't know all the differences in tech or reputation of these companies.
>>14762 >So I understand actual rifle plates but what difference is there in soft body armor? Soft body armor and stabproof armor are two different things. One is a vest made of kevlar(or similar fibre) to stop small bullets, but they are not stabproof. The other is usually made of thin hard plastic/steel plates to protect the whole torso against cut and stab attack, but they are not bullet proof. Combi Vest with the abilities of both are made, usually for police. Look for armor that is certificated by offical governmental rating organisations to find trustworthy companies.
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>>14762 In the future it's all going to move towards specialized polymer vests that rapidly reduce impact while being cut-resistant, but as of this time those are still expensive, so stab-resistant and bullet-resistant are not the same thing. "Stabproof" clothing options are designed to resist cutting/tearing/splitting but typically do little in terms of acute impact resistance past whatever meager padding has been added. Defensive "bulletproof" vests rated II or lighter (such as Kevlar) rely on dispersing the kinetic energy of the projectile over a large surface area so as to prevent it from going into your soft squishy body, but this means they're fairly worthless against rifle rounds which are more of a "piercing" round designed specifically around this body armor flaw (which is why rifle calibers are great for hunting boar, bear, moose, etc. since those animals have thick "bullet resistant" skin and hard points). This isn't considered a design flaw because typically these sorts of vests are to prevent being killed by a concealed firearm with less kinetic energy behind it, where it will hurt when you're shot but it won't cause much more than bruising. Plates ("level III and better") are the opposite in that they are designed to prevent deformation upon impact, but because of this they lack many of the features of "bulletproof" armor that people find desirable such as dispersing the impact over the surface of the protected area (E.G. you will still get blunt trauma without padding underneath). It's also heavy as shit because typically you're dealing with metal or ceramics. This makes it useful for defensive positions or specific applications, but it's typically a situation where it will only protect you once, for a high cost, and then it's worthless or its value has heavily reduced. IIIa is a meme. It tries to be the best of both worlds but is in fact the worst of both. It fails to provide the same level of protection as plates while also failing to reduce the force of impact like II/IIa armor does. There are exceptions to this rule beginning to come out, but you're looking at spending over a grand for one of those exceptions and it's anything but concealable. Depending on application, either a chest rig with III+ plates to protect your organs (very explicitly noticeable) or a II/IIa undershirt or jacket is the most ideal solution that will provide protection without reducing mobility. In your specific case, I would combine a a II/IIa tank top (these run for $100-$300 depending on brand and weigh about 10lbs) with either a welder's/construction jacket or a set of coveralls. That setup will blend into most establishments by making you look like a hick or tradesman, and welder's/construction jackets/coveralls can be bought with stab resistance, shrapnel resistance, and flame retardant properties for about $60-$150 depending on brand. Just keep in mind that there's a difference between flame retardant fabrics and clothes treated with flame retardant chemicals since most common household detergents and dryer sheets will strip flame retardant chemicals from your clothes. I believe borax and simple green are both safe, those are what I used when I had to wear flame-retardant (treated) coveralls that got hella filthy, but don't quote me on that.
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>>14765 Thanks. I thought IIIa was basically the same as level II/IIa stuff but able to deal with slightly more powerful pistol rounds. Is there anything I need to know about the construction of these vests like how ceramic rifle plates can have thick padding around the strike face to lower weight and have it compare better on paper? Maybe that's the construction difference between IIIa and II/IIa?
>>14160 If Civilization goes to shit to such a degree, you shouldn't worry about firearms anymore, but about actually getting shit done. And bows and crossbows get shit done. Guns are only needed if you're in for a really big fight, and even then, you could fuck up a reasonably big enemy force by using traps and ambushes. BUT I WANT ME GUNZ Well, in that case you better hoard pdfs on the basics of science and basic chemistry, physics and engineering, because those will come in handy. Tables and charts for specific calculations too. and don't let them stay digital, print everything out, on good quality paper, bind it and keep it dry and cool. You will need every scrap of knowledge for rebuilding civilization, and therefore, guns. >>4814 Sulfur is fucking hard to get, if you don't live near a volcano or a hot spring, you're outta luck, because fucking around with extraction of sulfur from minerals is pretty high on the industrial ladder, and when you manage rig a contraption to condense evaporated sulfur from melting minerals, you may just as well relocate to an area with volcanic activity and work with abundant natural sulfur deposits. As to saltpetre: stack shit and piss with separating layers of straw, let it rot, and then wash the whole stuff with water, which you then mix with potash, boil it off and let the saltpetre crystallize. done. That way you get a pure enough product to make a good gunpowder.
>>14767 Isn't diesel fuel fairly high in sulphur? I thought that was the main byproduct produced when trying to extract platinum from a sawed-off catalytic converter? Match heads are sulfur mixed with potassium chlorate if I remember correctly (that's why you can mix them with sugar to make explosives for those toy rockets).
>>14768 Not the anon, but I think he forgot that sulphur is the main byproduct of crude oil distillation (i.e. oil refinery). It's probably a good idea to start there. Though it's not crystalline sulphur, but hydrogen sulphate, so you would need to separate it somehow, and at that point you could just as well just burn it and use it to synthesize sulphuric acid. As to matchheads, sulphur hasn't been used since... The 1950s I think? It's been replaced with red phosphorus which, instead of being part of the matchhead, is now part of the striking surface of the matchbox. Chlorate is right though.
>>14767 >Sulfur is fucking hard to get,... The only reason Sulfur was in gun powder was to lower the ignition temperature of the saltpeter/charcoal mixture of black powder. If you use another mixture for gunpowder that has a lower ignition temperature or simply use a stronger ignition system in your rounds/gun(like electricity) Sulfur can be left out.
On the topic of more primitive firearms, tubelocks seem to be a quite interesting option: https://invidious.kavin.rocks/watch?v=v_Iyl-Tnjgo https://invidious.kavin.rocks/watch?v=fmGckpMx1sI
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>>14767 >>14768 >>14800 I've actually wondered if there's enough sulfur in coal to suffice for gunpowder? >>14948 Well if you're in an after the collapse sort of situation you probably aren't going to be building guns with fancy electric ignition systems. More likely you're going to be be making matchlocks and flintlocks instead.
>>14993 Not really. Also, charcoal is used for gunpowder, so pretty much nothing but carbon. Honestly, firearms aren't even the best option after a complete collapse of civilization. High tech requires high tech maintenance, and if something breaks, replacement parts are hard to get. We could survive a few decades on supplies of parts and ammo, but if you think long term, falling back on more primitive weapons is inevitable. If firearms prevail though, we will definitely see a fall back to the old practice of hand-fitted guns, every single piece being unique. Back on the topic of ammo: the hardest part isn't even the propellant, but the primers. Do you guys even know how highly sensitive explosives are made? Even the oldest primer explosives, fulminate, require either silver or mercury, nitric acid, and pure ethanol to be synthesized, and then you still need equipment to safely do it. And that's only the most basic, corrosive explosive for primers. >>14948 You're right, but an electric priming system is hardly enough for ignition of sulfurless powder. It can be ignited, but you would need to provide temperatures of about 500 degrees Celsius to ignite it, as otherwise the reaction will not start. If memory serves me right. On another note, what about pneumatic guns? The technology for making rubber and sealants is out there, and probably won't be forgotten for a long time, and high-pressure rated metal parts are all out there, in plumbing and and heating, so it seems like a logical step to concentrate on making guns that rely on compressed air, especially since you could automate the process of refilling air tanks by hooking them up to a compressor, and use wind generators to power it. Very sustainable if you ask me.
>>14993 >Well if you're in an after the collapse sort of situation you probably aren't going to be building guns with fancy electric ignition systems. Batteries are cheap and everywhere, every Nigger owns a Powerbank for his Smartphone or Tablet. Even with a war or economic problems that whipes out the indutry of cheap electronics it will take decades before they are vanished from society. >More likely you're going to be be making matchlocks and flintlocks instead. Anon the most common weapon on the planet is the AK47, a gun that is even cobbled together in 3rd world countries by Niggers living in dingy huts without elecricity. Even with a collapse of Western Civilisation be it economic, racial, pandemic or from total nuclear warfare this knowledge of guncraft will not die out, because it is so wide spread. The guns of an after collapse world will look like the guns cobbled together by the criminals of Middle and South American Favelas or the guns produced by the Resistance in Europe during WW2, but we will not go back to match- and fintlocks. >>14995 >You're right, but an electric priming system is hardly enough for ignition of sulfurless powder. It can be ignited, but you would need to provide temperatures of about 500 degrees Celsius to ignite it, as otherwise the reaction will not start. The temperature depends on the powder mixture. You don't have to use potassium nitrate+nitrate to get a gunpoweder. The advantage of the electric priming system is that you don't need a chemical primer, the powder you ignite just needs to correspond to the heat your electricity source can produce. One could even use little lightbulbs as primers, the lightbulbs without the glass gets into the cartridge so that the wire is exposed and in contact with the poweder and the firing chamber of the gun is so constructed that its just making contact with the contacts of the lightblubs.
>>14995 >Back on the topic of ammo: the hardest part isn't even the propellant, but the primers. And that limits not only the use of modern auto loaders, but also the likes of caplocks, pinfire, needlefire, etc. as well. >>14998 >Anon the most common weapon on the planet is the AK47, a gun that is even cobbled together in 3rd world countries by Niggers living in dingy huts without elecricity. It's not the guncraft that's the problem, it's the ammo. You can't really run modern style guns on BP for long and smokeless is a lot harder to manufacturer on a post apoc cottage scale. >One could even use little lightbulbs as primers, the lightbulbs without the glass gets into the cartridge so that the wire is exposed and in contact with the poweder and the firing chamber of the gun is so constructed that its just making contact with the contacts of the lightblubs. It's hard enough to find micro lamps as it is now, to say nothing of after the collapse.
>>14998 the question isn't about the primers, it's more about the propellant. The ignition temperature of the mixture has to correspond to the maximum temperature of the priming system. If your primer can't reach the needed temperature, the reaction won't happen. Either that, or your lock time increases, because the "primer" needs time to heat up. >>15001 >smokeless is a lot harder to manufacture on a post apoc cottage scale. indeed, although, if you do manage to obtain sulfuric acid, nitric acid and glycerine in sufficient amounts, you could most definitely make cordite at home, the very first smokeless propellant.
>>15001 >You can't really run modern style guns on BP for long and smokeless is a lot harder to manufacturer on a post apoc cottage scale. 1. You don't have to use Blackpoweder as gunpoweder. 2. Smokeless gunpoweder was first produced in 1884. Even with a collapse we will not fall back into a world that is more primitive than the 19th century. >It's hard enough to find micro lamps as it is now, to say nothing of after the collapse. You can buy a package of 50 oldschool micro lamps for 10€ off from Amazon here in the EU. Even my local hardware store still has them. Buy some packeges now, together with some metal tubes, ring washer, lead and a welder and you have everything to produced bullets in the after collapse once your normal ammo runs dry. >>15002 >The ignition temperature of the mixture has to correspond to the maximum temperature of the priming system. If your primer can't reach the needed temperature, the reaction won't happen. Either that, or your lock time increases, because the "primer" needs time to heat up. I know, but you guys forget the simple fact that we live in the here and now and at this moment of time there is an entire industry shitting out millions of Jet Flame lighters and Electric Arc lighters every month, they cover entire walls at local big stores together with the needed lighter fuel. If the collapse comes, you just have to get your hand on one of these things and integrate it into whatever gun you are building at home. These ligthers get really fucking hot and easily ignite whatever gunpoweder you throw together at home, even if its just sugar+potassium nitrate. Stocking up on ligthers isn't even a stupid thing for a prepper as they can be used for bartering. There are dozens of ways to build guns and ammunition for them, you just have to plan and test which is the best way for you before the collapse happens.
>>15010 >Smokeless gunpoweder was first produced in 1884. Even with a collapse we will not fall back into a world that is more primitive than the 19th century. It's not so much a question of it being beyond knowledge as it is being beyond means. I imagine that back in 1884 the smokeless that was being manufactured in major industrial centers and then distributed from there. It wouldn't have been like someone discovered the secret of cordite and then every little frontier town had a chemist that could produce a 1000 rounds per month in his little one person shop.
>>15017 Spot on. Even for cordite you need nitric and sulfuric acid, glycerine, cellulose and a jellying agent, usually petroleum jelly. And then you still need the equipment to synthesize the nitroglycerin and nitrocellulose, which you need for cordite. Then you will still need to mix the stuff, and extrude it into cords, dry it and chop it into appropriate pieces. Logistics are again the core problem of everything.
>>11657 >>The Pentagon is responding to growing numbers of women in the ranks—21 percent of the Air Force, 20.2 percent of the Navy, 15.4 percent of the Army, and 9.1 percent of the Marine Corps. Devastation in numbers. >Until recently, the military hasn't really addressed the issue of female urination in the field. As a result, female soldiers experienced greater infections and drank less water, making field duty considerably less pleasant for women than for men. >The FUDD allows female soldiers to pee standing up, without having to partially disrobe. kek. Elmer Fudd ought to become the new mascot of the armed forces. Makes sense to me. >new body armor options, as well as new kit like the FUDD, address the reality of a mixed-gender military. More comfortable, better-rested troops who don’t have to worry about where they're going to pee next are simply more effective troops. And more effective troops lead to a more effective military—and a better-protected nation. Horray I guess? Thank God there are no other problems in the world today. That piece is unintentionally amusing I confess. Still waiting for a catastrophe to happen like what the Norwegian navy had to wade through. https://archive.ph/BaoSi (link related, a classic. Bonus points at the end, acc to the article they had no insurance (didnt know that, wtf.) >>11659 Don't forget you need a shiny navy too. Go for rugged oil tankers (ice class strengthened), pack a fuckton of missile artillery on top, and if nothing else does help - go Tegethoff on them. Tegethoff - not Hasselhoff. Remember this.
>>19756 > 21 percent of the Air Force, 20.2 percent of the Navy, 15.4 percent of the Army, and 9.1 percent of the Marine Corps. Yet they fail to mention the even greater menace in the ranks in even greater numbers, janny furfags.
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>>14995 >On another note, what about pneumatic guns? ... They trialled some in about 1800 with the Girandoni air rifles, so called Windbuechsen back then. You may have heard of them. One problem was reservoirs needed to be refilled in the field, either exchange empty for filled (like with mags), or send someone refilling behind the line of fire. You have no time to pump 'em up right there and then. They made handcranked compressors on carts to refill a handfull tanks at once iirc. The empties are brought back, full ones given to the troopers. The tanks need to fit well for this to work, like magazines one could use on another, similar gun. You cannot have tanks to yourself/for your gun only. Imagine the nightmare. Tanks could start leaking, which will render them unusable till you can fix them. Somewhere to the back. Also the rifles were manufactured, literally handmade. Lots of handfitting, something we can do smarter now I say. And they were finnicky in general, not very robust. Could be solved today (also if SHTF). We have advanced from 1800s to nowadays, and I believe we could overcome some of the challenges. You need e.g. to compensate for power decline as the air reservoir is emptied. To be able to hit targets until you run out of air, or bullets, which comes first. The tank needs being protected, so fit into the rifle, the best way. Exchangable buttstocks. Also a rugged simple twist-lock mechanism, lugs like how you mount bayonets. So yeah, is a thing, can be done, but as a first choice I'd rather prefer other proven solutions tbh. Range was over 100 metres/110 yards, and they didn't use true pointed projectiles, only the literal bullets or 'musket balls', not even Minié types. Reminder, 1800. When Napoléon ran out of chewing gum. So there is wiggle room for improvement too. Perhaps up to 150 metres/165 yards, seems feasable. Similar to shotgun (with slug, rifled barrel, in it's role as a musket - how ironic). But definitely more silent I think. Should be a plus, shouldn't it? https://ytb.trom.tf/watch?v=NPHPYN0NPGE (vid related is review of 'portable' compressors, the smallest is still huge as fuck.) To me it boils down to is it uncomplicated/reliable to use? Similar to the question of battery driven car versus fuel driven car. We got used to liquid fuels, they are great to store for a while, easy to transport, and it just takes minutes to refill even a big car tank. Who wants to literally stand by, waiting for half an hour and more to charge a car battery? Even if you only had to do it every few hundred kilometres/miles? Me not. Is why alcohol and fuel cell is the right thing imho. >Fill tank, produce electricity on the way, use for traction motor(s) and whatnot. Do not get me wrong pls: For fixed routes, battery-electric cars/busses/trucks and water/air/railway vehicles are alright. Like it's done with public transport of goods and passengers. They did use some in the past (e.g. German battery-electric railcar, the Wittfeld-Akkumulatortriebwagen of 1907, in service for half a century(!)), and are using boats reliably for a time now, too (a modern one is the MV Ampere catamaran ferry in Norway, since 2014 afaik). >Charge, takes a time, but you do it once a day. >Then you run the vehicle all day long. >During evening/in the morning charge again. >Rinse, repeat. This can work fine, but those vehicles in use are rather not extended-range ones. Same goes btw for compressed-air driven vehicles (little motorbikes for transporting pizza a.o., compressed-air 'fireless' locos, as shunters - awesome, no kidding). You need a compressor placed somewhere, nothing I want to take with me all the time. Or how about classic steam-engined ones, which you need to bring to temperature first - and not let them cool down else you wait. Sounds familiar? For an 'if you need to, move on - quickly, to anywhere' style of travelling it's a no-go, literally. Sorry for the long rant...
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>>14995 >It can be ignited, but you would need to provide temperatures of about 500 degrees Celsius to ignite it That problem has already been solved by Daisy back in the day. They claim a temp of 2000 degrees Fahrenheit or 1093 degrees Celsius for their firing mechanism. The projectiles use a block of smokeless powder with a claimed velocity of 1150 fps for what is likely a 25 to 30 grain projectile. It would take some doing getting the air to compress and heat properly as it uses a unique obturator to do so, but not impossible to do and a patent may exist removing that work.
>>11365 I reckon you could make a serviceable piece of slash/stab/blunt trauma resistant armour using the technique shown in the bone example and only the thick rubber and steel wire found in waste tyres.

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