/k/ - Weapons, Combat, Outdoorsmanship

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Kusarigama and Other Ninja Gear Strelok 11/14/2021 (Sun) 10:24:43 No.20438
The kusarigama confuses me. The design itself is perfectly reasonable: It's a flail with a short-range weapon attached for when you get a bit too intimate with your enemy. It leaves me wondering why European flails didn't have a spike on the handle just in case, but whatever. No, the confusing thing about the kusarigama is why a sickle of all things? Why not use a kunai, a hatchet or a pick instead? They are typically seen as ninja weapons and in that regard the obvious answer is to use the sickle as a grappling hook. However, a Japanese sickle would be an absolutely shit grappling hook because the shaft is longer than the blade is wide and that's the opposite of what you want. And even if you do manage to catch something, you're going to be putting half your bodyweight directly onto your carefully sharpened blade so now all you've got is a shitty warpick. A normal pick would make an excellent hook, with the downside of losing your throat-slitting capability. And as for skirting ATF-san? Do you really think your local glow-kokujin is going to believe you when you tell him that you thresh your grain with a meteor flail, and that you do it out in the rice paddy? It would be perfect if you could just stick the chain on with a bow shackle, but I don't know if the nips had anything quite that convenient back then.
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Oh, I should mention that while the pommel-mounted design would make a sub-optimal grappling hook and the head-mounted design would be useless, the shaft-mounted design looks like it could work.
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>>20438 Something I could see is the chain being detachable in some manner or other, like the metal bit on the butt the chain is fixed to being fixed to the wood by a pin you can pop out with a quick hammerblow. That way, you could easily claim it's just an agricultural tool, as long as you stuff the chain down your pants or something. Ninja weapons in general seem impractical on purpose, requiring huge amounts of training to use effectively, with the idea being that the enemy guards would be unlikely to have much experience fighting against them, while the ninja has experience fighting against the standard katana. As for spikes on European flails: The chain was a good deal shorter there, the flail itself was a short-range weapon. Benefit being, it's much less likely to bash your own head in, so it requires less training.
>>20438 >going to believe you when you tell him that you thresh your grain with a meteor flail Seems like the best cover would be to learn how to thresh grain with the thing. "You thresh grain with that thing?" "You're damn skippy." "The hell you do." "Okay, stand back mother fucker, you're about to see how a pro handles some grain."
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>>20438 >No, the confusing thing about the kusarigama is why a sickle of all things? Kama are good weapons and used by themselves, either solo or in pairs. Kusarigama combines the kama with another weapon, the kusarifundo, which is basically something like a slungshot. Putting the two together lets you use both weapons at once. You can also throw the sickle part instead of the weight. There's even a variation of the kusarigama that uses two sickles. Basically it combines a hard weapon with a soft weapon. It's not even the only sort of that kind of weapon either. Also importantly kama and chains or ropes are perfectly reasonable items for peasants to have that aren't likely to get you assraped by a local samurai for having a forbidden weapon. Peasants need to cut grain and weeds. Everyone can use cains or ropes for everyday tasks. >Why not use a kunai Kunai is primarily a digging tool and occasionally an impromptu spearhead or piton for climbing. I guess you could use it a s a rope dart too. But they were made of soft iron so they didn't hold an edge very well.
You're putting the cart before the horse, OP. A ninja pretended to be a buddhist monk or peasant farmer most of the time and rarely if ever stepped foot into ninja garb. The reason their weapons are like that is because they are arguably farming implements (or made to look like farming implements) first and foremost, and weapons second.
>>20511 That first pic does not look like a paint brush to induce blood loss to me. Looks like a crude Cave painting that a caveman thought up. The second one I assume it was common for Samurai to fine you excessively and make you go broke when they find you have any part of this. ( ‵▽′)ψ
>>20438 >>20507 Current events allow me to imagine that oppressors are satisfied with the theatrical exhibition of control, knowing full well that their authority is in constant jeopardy. More control is met with more resistance.
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What about the Wind Fire Wheel? It's Chinese not Japanese but it is fairly exotic looking. On the one hand it looks like something that a Wushu movie made up but then again I do know that a couple other similar weapons definitely exist. Chakram were occasionally used as a melee weapon and ninja had a weapon called a kana-wa which is a simple double bladed ring with a handle.
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>>22520 Different pic because the site didn't jive with the last one.
Good posts anons. The Chinese wheel weapon is cool looking. Of course the practicality would have me baffled. This could perhaps be a thread for unusual weapons in general, and fuck practicality, because sometimes weapons thrive on aesthetic value.
>>22525 >Of course the practicality I've been thinking about it for a while and the best I can figure is that it gives a really good grip and being sharpened inside and out it makes it a dangerous thing to try and disarm you and your hands are relatively protected since they're doubly guarded. >This could perhaps be a thread for unusual weapons in genera Sounds good to me. From a little more investigation it looks like it may be from a class of weapons that are derived from swords with sharpened hand guards. Meaning that these things are basically just weaponized hand guards.
You can kind of see the descent of the weapon concept from the pics before.
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>>22526 I've seen these before.
Why is it mainly Asians that have these retarded and unpractical weapon designs? Look at European weapons. They are practical, simple designs. You only start seeing weird or meme weapons towards the 15th century but one could argue that even those are far more practical than the crap Asians come up with.
>>22531 Because half to three-quarters of those weird and wacky weapons were meant for a deadly performance art meant to please various deities; they weren't designed for the battlefield, they were designed to mystify an audience and the rare cases of someone taking them to the battlefield was almost always for duels and relied on their enemy going 'wtf is this idiot doing' to win. That almost always turned out about as you'd expect with the dancer's head rolling on the ground. The other quarter to half of them were either actually tools that mutated into weapons or intentionally designed so they looked nothing like a reasonable and practical weapon so the authorities wouldn't kill the peasants/monks for having them. When Asians were not making a performance of their combat (or trying to avoid a weapons ban) and were simply doing as the Europeans and crushing their enemy with sheer and utter force, they defaulted to simple, practical designs such as the Jian, Katana (practical in the sense that it was designed for idiots to be able to use it), (plain) Dao, Hyupdo, Yari, Ssanggeom, Guandao and whatnot.
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>>22539 >>22531 Africa also has some. Partially because they're status symbols and partly because most of them are derived from boomerangs/throwing sticks.
I might as well post all I've got because I'll never get a better opportunity or have a more appropriate thread.
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As you can see the fall into roughly 3 or 4 groups: >modified and ornate metal throwing sticks >highly derived axes >ornate derivatives or straight swords/curved swords
>>22531 >>22539 Also to annoy stupid faggots like you who can't into aesthetics More good posts anon, what are the African throwing axes most commonly called?
>>22561 >what are the African throwing axes most commonly called? They're commonly known mambele, hunga-munga, kpinga, and at least 2 or 3 dozen other names across the region. Actual axes are called nzappa zap.
>>22561 >who can't into aesthetics Strelok, performance art is entirely about aesthetics.
>>22570 I formatted it weird, that was just for the first guy
>>22561 >dumb awkward designs >aesthetic You have shit taste. If you want peak aesthetics then nobody comes even close to European blacksmithing.
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>>22557 >>22556 The axes here mostly look like a khopesh made by a man with a sub-60IQ. So much as what you'd expect, really.
>>22610 Everything in >>22556 looks pretty practical actually, except maybe pic 4, which looks a little sketchy to me. Pic 1 and 3 are basically pick/axe hybrids, perfectly functional, pic 2 looks awkward but is actually a throwing design, and 5 is probably meant to catch and control shields and maybe spears, or even other axes.
>>22609 >dumb >awkward They're not. Most of these are throwing weapons remember. With a throwing weapon you ideally want as much blade pointing in as many directions as you can manage to maximize the chance of it sticking in and doing damage. >>22609 >If you want peak aesthetics then nobody comes even close to European blacksmithing. Post some weird European weapons then.
They look cool and weird to me. Anon you are a 56% abomination, you don't get to talk about what looks dumb and awkward.
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>>22633 >Likes nigger-tier abominations >calls other people 56%
>>22654 Some of them are well crafted and funky cool. Not something a subhuman NPC can understand without guidance.
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>>22633 >56% >NPC Fucking cuckchaners, go back.
If someone lodged a mambele in your thick but empty skull, they'd win for style points alone
>>22549 Is there a practical reason behind the spike pointing the "wrong" way in the third mambele? One would imagine the ideal shape to be as close to a swastika as possible like the first one, and I think the little spike on the top of some of the others you posted could also have some practical usage in that they would catch onto the enemy and act as a fulcrum so the lower spike can swing around and stab them. But I can't think of any logical justification behind that big reversed spike or the barb/axehead on the inside.
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>>22669 >Is there a practical reason behind the spike pointing the "wrong" way in the third mambele? I think this is what is going on.
>>22671 Yeah, that's my point: The top spike is just going to turn what could have been a lethal stab wound from the bottom spike into a relatively harmless slashing wound and bounce off into the savanna.
>>22672 I don't know what goes on in the minds of niggers. They can barely do math; obviously this particular hunga munga doesn't add up. I think the internal barb could be part of a trapping system that trap's a person's neck, with the barb delivering the death blow if wanted.
>>22672 Well there is a certain amount of artistry that goes into these things. You'll notice that several of them have very obvious erect phalluses on their back spike and one of them >>22555 the middle one on the 5th pic is a damn coiled snake. If I have to take a wild stab in the dark, I'm going to guess that on that particular knife it's meant to look like bull horns. Cattle are very important to some African tribes.
>>22674 It's fairly stupid if it is meant to be, especially when one could make a beautiful and functional axe-prong that's two prongs forming a disc contour. It would be hilarious if there was another bird beak shaped one with a huge penis. To quote Toucan Sam, "Follow your nose wherever it goes".
>>22674 I'd like to add this is an amazing photo, I am sad that there isn't a wallpaper sized version on google search.
Wait, is Mambele just the most common term in the Anglosphere? Is that the same as the most common, or the prestige term, for throwing axes in Africa? Anyone with deep knowledge here?
>>22674 Actually like the first pic here >>22551. With some lengthening and other modifications, the basic idea could be a sword with prongs at the end to (from a safer distance) pin down an enemy's limb or neck, to keep them from escaping, for reasons like enslavement, or capturing sacrificial victims.
>>22678 I first heard of them by the name hunga munga. I've not got enough knowledge to know if all the various names are just generic terms that various tribes have for these kind of knives or if all the names denote different sub types and variations of these type of weapons. I'm curious to know myself.
>>22680 I looked it up, and mambele and then hunga-munga are the words for them used by the largest ethnicities who used them, so I guess they're the best word choices for them.
>>22671 >>22673 >>22675 It's probably like Japanese sword catchers. Catch and seize an enemy's weapon. Not as elegant as the Japanese, but at least has some deadly throwability
>>20438 What were the other variants on this basic weapon-with-a-chain concept? Surprised no one brought that up. Only reason I haven't posted about them is that I don't remember their names.
>>22688 Do you mean Japanese only or world wide?
I made a mistake, they actually talked about other types early in the thread, but I came here for mambele posting.
>>22702 Well the Chinese do have things like chain whip, meteor hammer, rope dart, and tri-section staff which are all broadly in the same group of soft weapons.
lol, "european flails" >A military flail is a medieval weapon consisting of a short handle attached to a chain, at the end of which is a metal ball. >Only problem is: they never existed. >Despite the weapon’s popularity in pop cultural depictions of the Middle Ages, the flail was almost certainly an invention of the imaginations of later people.
>>22972 Source? It seems pretty unlikely people just decided to retcon a weapon into existence for no reason.
>>22972 >>22993 Even the briefest of searches shows that the ball-and-chain flail appears in early 1400s art. it certainly seems like an impractical weapon, and the art does not prove that they actually existed and were used in combat given all the issues it would have. But it does prove they are not a modern invention.
>>22994 It could mean that they were later misunderstanding of some real earlier weapon.
>>22994 My problem is that flexible weapons are nearly universal. I find it a more likely scenario that there is something modern reconstructionists are missing than people all over Europe and Asia decided to use weapons that "didn't work" for a few hundred years or so. These things are in museums and all over artwork. Looking at the artwork you can see that it's not as if there are a bunch of outlandish weapon designs being used, why would just the one thing be the product of "imagination". The whole thing just seems like a clickbaity narrative pushed by the HEMA larpers on youtube.
>>22994 So you're saying it's a pre-chuuni chuuni meme?
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>>23022 >flexible weapons are nearly universal. The specific ball-and-chain flail people think of when they hear "flail" is not so common. But the type of flails that were actually common were usually straight segments with short chains, based on agricultural threshing flails. Those were known to be fielded in significant numbers in Europe, and are more similar to other regions' flail-like weapons (e.g. nunchaku).
What was the function of retarded Euro-pooran spiked flails anyway? Don't maces have the same purpose?
>>23042 It's a force multiplier. Soft weapons are almost like differential gears. They turn a little bit of movement and speed into a lot of movement and speed. The most extreme example of the effect is how a bullwhip "gears up" the force of a person swinging it to the point where it breaks the sound barrier at the tip. Even lesser examples like rope darts or chain whips usually require the user to put a flag or streamer at the end because it ends up moving to fast for the eye to see. They also have some ability to hit around shields which is always a plus.
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Here are some Chinese spear types. They tend to be much more ornate than Japanese pole arms.
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Some more and some Korean pole arms as well. I'm not even sure how that leaf spear is suppose to work.
You're always posting interesting stuff. Do you know a certain set of Filipino knives that some local tribe is proud of? Idk how much of it is justified, but I wonder what their uses would be.
>>24810 Which left spear? The branch like one?
>>24930 >The branch like one? Yes that one. You can tell that these are the same people that created the Seven Branched Sword. >>24927 >Do you know a certain set of Filipino knives that some local tribe is proud of? Do you mean their kris knives or one of their other kinds?
>>24810 >I'm not even sure how that leaf spear is suppose to work. IIRC, it was more or less an experiment on ripping the armor off of horses that didn't go anywhere. I'm not sure if it was that design of spear in particular, but it reminds me of one Korean experimental spear design that ended up proving less than ideal, but looked so hilarious to one of the generals that he commissioned a set of them and forced idiot soldiers to march around carrying them so everyone could see them as idiots. Effectively the spear version of a dunce cap. Pre-Japan Koreans tended to be weird like that.
>>24934 They make an official wooden board for tourists that displays the types. Sorry, that's all I really know, but at least if it gets posted here I'll remember it better.
>>24979 Found it. Weapons of Moroland.
>>24810 As far as I know they are not really weapons, but support "tool", used to protect the formation by blocking enemy blades / fucking with enemy vision / generally being annoying fuck. Its not something that really makes sense without the context of chink pike formations. You could use umbrella for the same effect. Europeans would just put another pike in there.
>>25005 Those bolo type knives down in the lower right corner are probably the best of the bunch.
>>25071 >You could use umbrella for the same effect. I wonder if anyone ever attempted to make something like the metal umbrella from Sekiro?
>>25269 I really wonder what the functions of them all are. I tried to look it up, but hunting the info is tiring.
>>25330 Some guy on youtube did it
>>22972 Only retards think that the European flail didn't exist, as we have both art and surviving specimen from the Middle Ages. On top of that soldiers on both sides in WW1 build their trench raiding clubs as flails. What the retards who question the flail don't understand or deliberately ignore is that flails are basically just battlefield grade blackjacks to hit people who wear head protection. Germans and Austrians build and used trench blackjacks in WW1 much more dangerous than the medieval flail and nobody cared about hitting themselves, because they were build for ambushes and really close quarter fighting.
>>25387 I was meaning historically. Also that youtube version was way to heavy looking.
>>25433 >flails were used in ww1 trenches Neat, I didn't know that.
>>24810 Interestingly, Elden Ring has one of those multi-branched spears. Thought it was kind of interesting.
>>25330 >I wonder if anyone ever attempted to make something like the metal umbrella from Sekiro? I know in Europe they did make metal armor and weapons that look like normal clothing and items. Contrary to the popular claim that metal armor went away with the rise of fire arms, European metallurgy become just so good that they could make it look like ordinary things. Of course those items were always custom made. Skull caps made from iron and steel to be worn under your hat were also popular by the less rich people.
>>25813 The West: Making weapons gay one dandy ass item at a time.
>>26021 This whole thread is of full of gay premises coming from people pretending to know a lot just to trick others into believing their gay opinions as certitude. Why don't you actually post about something related to the actual topic of this thread. Like whatever thread he'll a "ninja" truly is based on historical accounts of their weapons and gear. Faggot. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja
>>26037 One of the most important ninja techniques is turning Westoids gay through magic cartoons
>>26037 The くのいち most powerful weapon is まんこ Post weaponized まんこ
Nip arrowheads. I can seem to find my onion head arrow pics.
>>26398 >Arrowheads with clan symbols carved into them. Is this some way of "sending a message"?
>>26402 I assumed it was just a way to lower the weight and the smith was flexing. Who knows though.
>>26398 Do you have examples of that melee weapon that is based on an arrow? That is, it evolved from archers trying to poke people who got close with their arrows, and so it's basically a pointy stick.
>>26398 Aesthetic as fuck
>>26520 I've never heard of this. That sounds neat.
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Japan also had a weapon that was more like a European flail.
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>>25005 I found a little diagram of Flip knives today while searching for something else.
>>25715 >>24810 Is this design useless? No. Is it unwieldy? Yes. Is it cool? Definitely, and sometimes showmanship can be traded for a slight cost functionality. A halberd is better designed but also more bulky looking, and not as beautiful or elegant as the bare branches spear design.
>>29491 some of those look straight out of ye olde first 3d wrpg
>>24810 >I'm not even sure how that leaf spear is suppose to work. If you look at the Mandarin Duck formation, it shows you a squad of soldiers that work in cooperation. Each soldier has a different weapon for a different task. The problem this formation has however is that it is weaker against full spearmen formations and cavalry attacks. To compensate for that they gave the spear of the single spearman in the unit more points ends. Put several Mandarin Duck formations side by side and the spearmen together create a pointy metal hedge against oncoming attackers. >>29797 >some of those look straight out of ye olde first 3d wrpg They don't just look like that, old first 3d wrpgs did indeed copy weird blades from around the world to look more exotic and fantasy. On top of that the Philippines in the 90s had some influence as the cool hip thing in martial arts. Richer Generation Xers would travel there for sex tourism and flex on their peers that they trained there in knife fighting or some other martial arts, which wasn't your old and stale judo, karate or kung fu you could trains in the West.
>>29798 > Richer Generation Xers would travel there for sex tourism and flex on their peers that they trained there in knife fighting or some other martial arts >Say Jim I heard you got back from south east Asia. That's like your 5th trip this year, what are you doing over there? >Oh I'm just doing some Flip kids...er I MEAN FLIPKIDO, yeah that's the ticket. Really wild stuff Bill! Got kickboxing and knives and sarongs!
>>29798 >Richer Generation Xers would travel there for sex tourism and flex on their peers that they trained there in knife fighting or some other martial arts, which wasn't your old and stale judo, karate or kung fu you could trains in the West. Then what do the western women get out of it? It can't be just for taking photos and shit and sending it to Instagram all day.
>>30026 Women will bankrupt themselves just to leave the country they are in yes it doesn't make any sense but that's women.
>>30026 >Richer Generation Xers would travel there for sex tourism >Then what do the western women get out of it?
>>30026 >Then what do the western women get out of it? Anon you understand that women contribute a significant portion to the sex tourism industry even if male sex tourism is more common, right? Events like the olympics are infamous for sex tourism to the point where countries like Russia and Japan explicitly put out PSAs about how that athlete is not going to put a ring on it when you get pregnant.
>>30026 >Then what do the western women get out of it? Any woman that travels extensively does so to get her snatch plastered by exotic guys, often times even young boys. Or do you think female pedophiles are different from male pedophiles?
>>30082 >>30108 >>30136 >Anon you understand that women contribute a significant portion to the sex tourism industry even if male sex tourism is more common, right? the fuck are you talking about ? go to any downtown area and count how many men vs women standing on the corner selling themselves because I don't see much and the men selling themselves are selling for faggots and crossdressers . I lived in Miami in the 90's so don't tell me shit.
>>30166 The fuck are YOU talking about? Who said anything about male prostitutes? The women who travel to get fucked by exotic locals aren't hiring male prostitutes, they're just fucking locals.
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>>30166 >He thinks women need to pay for sex >What are bars >What are dance clubs Do you think people actually go to those to have fun? Maybe once in a blue moon for the latter but no, people go to those because they WANT SOME FUCK anon. THEY WANNA SMASH.
>>30166 >>30178 >>30185 Look at all the fools that don't know that there are many tourist spots for women around the world that have populations of professional gigolos that get payed to fuck the western feminist landwahles that even a nigger wouldn't touch.
>>30358 Nobody said they don't exist but that's not the normal customer outside of Japanese female-focused cabaret clubs/soaplands.
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Does anyone know the names of some of the other Chinese staff weapons? I know the three-section staff is called sanjiegun.
>>30185 Where can I find these memes?
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>>32479 https://saucenao.com/search.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fanon.cafe%2F.media%2Ft_36d15e71bb05db1b652233afd862ab17a09da3775257611ca85b25ce8d70946f Either Twitter or Pixiv. Both seem to be kept well up to date with each other, but there are some exceptions given Twitter's sensitivity.
>>32462 Specifically do you know the name of that extra thick monk staff/cudgel you see some times?
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>>32875 The one with a metal ornament on the end? I think it's just called a monk's cudgel or a Zen stick. The flat fat sticks (d in pic related) is called a Keisaku 警策/"awakening stick" since it was traditionally smacked hardly on someone's head to wake their ass up if they were dozing off.
>>32930 I think it's called something like Chin Kang Gun or Jin Gang Gun or Qun Yang Gun. I'm not sure if those are three different transliterations of the same weapon or what. It might be called a Shepherd's Staff in english. It's a stubby but thick staff weapon.

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