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Alternative history thread Strelok 07/09/2021 (Fri) 15:42:02 No.17124
This thread includes alternative history wars, conflicts, weapons, tactics and more. For instance >Axis victory proxy wars >Their equipment >East centered world, conflicts And more
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If the Bolsheviks struck first while the bulk of the Heer and Luftwaffe were busy driving US Muhreens off of Glasgow followed by demographic adjustments of a few million Slovakian and Hungarian civilians before getting 70 divisions cut off in the Carpathians leading to a desperate breakout towards Berlin that ends in fuel starvation and lynchings by armed civilians/Hitlerjugend at Liegnitz would FDR still have provided lend-lease?
>>17125 >would FDR still have provided lend-lease? Why would he? Soviets have rolled-over majority of germany by themselfs. More then any allied nation.
>>17125 >>17127 In theory ww2 was fought to liberate Poland from occupation, and yet they were more than happy to support the USSR, ignoring that they occupied half of Poland. I don't think they'd say no a willing ally.
>>17125 >Operation Sealion. >Feasible. WW2 is not my speciality but. Wouldn't the most posible way to the anglos surrendering a simple ceasefire instead of an outright invasion?
>>17130 If the Germans and Italians had a proper alliance, then in theory they could take over Malta, and then push into Egypt, thus closing off the Suez canal. Then they'd have to concentrate their submarines and air force in France, and that combined with the longer shipping route between Asia and Britain might be enough to starve out Britain. But that requires concrete plans and good coöperation, therefore at this point we are speaking about a ww2-themed fantasy novel.
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>>17133 >closing off the Suez canal. Would Italian Rheinübungen in the 1942 western Indian Ocean have any funny effects on the situation in East Asia? IIRC the Royal Navy had a limited presence there and even feared the Japanese might attempt an invasion of Ceylon early in the Pacific war.
>>17137 I don't even know if Italian ships are capable of operation in that ocean. Although I can see them going down in the Red Sea and maybe do fun things around the Horn of Africa. The absolute best I can imagine is taking Madagascar with surface ships and then building airfields and submarine bases there. But if I'm not mistaken German submarines were already operating in the Indian Ocean, and going down there through the Suez Canal would certainly make their lives easier. Still, what would be absolutely hilarious if the German-Italian forces liberated Syria, then Iraq, then finally Iran. At that point they'd have a direct land connection to India, and at the part that later became Pakistan. Now I imagine the Brits would send in the Indian army at force, and maybe the Germans could unite all the various Moslems for a counter-jihad. Even if only the Iranians get as fanatical as they were in our timeline during the Iraq-Iran war, that will mean gigantic causalities on both sides. Maybe that would give enough ammo for the Indian independence movement to overthrow the British colonial government, and I can't even imagine where would that lead.
>>17125 >would FDR still have provided lend-lease? Maybe not, but the question would become would FDR have been providing the Soviets aid since 1936 under every excuse in the book like he did in real life. Yes, the Soviets barely used Lend Lease to crush Germany. But roughly 70% of what is called Russian production was made using American equipment in mostly American-designed factories, with Americans priming the pump of resources.
>>17124 Is that gif a what-if the Russo-Japanese war had become ww1 scenario? >>17130 Yes, the invasion was impossible, a complete pipe dream, what Germany could have done is reach a stalemate at best. >>17133 >If the Germans and Italians had a proper alliance Not even then, not by a long shot >>17138 The axis could've reached Syria and Iraq, but i have a really hard time seeing them getting past Iran, it's too mountainous and under-developed, they had a difficult enough time with logistics already, trying to supply an Indian expedition in any meaningful way doesn't seem possible to me. Mind you, the brits could've gotten really scared at the prospect of a pincer attack Japs coming from Burma like they did irl and sue for peace.
>>17141 >Not even then, not by a long shot Why? The Brits thought they could easily take Malta, and I know that there not that many ports in North Africa, but Egypt was willing to switch sides the moment the Axis reaches their territory. >i have a really hard time seeing them getting past Iran, Indeed, but that's not the point. Once Iran openly sides with them a token force in that country is enough to make the Brits feel threatened enough to panic.
>>17142 >Why? Germany just didn't have the resources to make such an operation possible, amphibious invasions are extremely hard at the best of times, how were they gonna invade the island with the biggest navy in the world? one that dwarfed theirs, how were they gonna keep them supplied? we all know the Germans aren't the best at logistics. >The Brits thought they could easily take Malta What they thought and what was actually possible are different things, Malta is not at all comparable with the UK in any case. Sealion is just not possible in any realistic what-if scenario, unless you're counting on it being a massive failure that would shorten the war by years, the axis reaching Suez, the Levant and Mesopotamia is realistic, but don't ignore that they were already tied to the Russian quagmire, gains in the middle east mean little if the eastern front goes the way it did irl, i have a hard time seeing it go any other way short of the German high command going full total war from the beginning War production mostly Germany kept a lot of their industry producing civilian goods even long after everyone else had switched to a war economy so Barbarrossa doesn't lose steam 2/3rds of the way to knocking the soviets out..
>>17143 Anon, read that post again. >>17133 >If the Germans and Italians had a proper alliance, then in theory they could take over Malta >but don't ignore that they were already tied to the Russian quagmire, gains in the middle east mean little if the eastern front goes the way it did irl I'm not ignoring that, the part about concrete plans and good coöperation also refers to things like Germany not attacking the USSR before finishing the UK, or Italy not invading Greece just for the fun of it. That's why I wrote that at this point we are speaking about a ww2-themed fantasy novel.
Do anons think the war would've been significantly different if Brazil stuck with the Axis all the way through? I know Vargas was sympathetic of the Axis, but Brazil was eventually put into a stranglehold and joined the Allies. If I recall, they went through a few campaigns in Italy. Forgive me if this sounds like a dumb question. I'm not terribly well versed in WW2. I'm just fascinated that South America is often overlooked in this scenario, even though it's called a "world war". Tidbits about other LATAM nations are welcome too.
>>17145 South America is mostly overlooked because South America was part of the so-called 'Monroe Clique', the faction controlled by the US. When the US entered, the rest of the Americas (sans Canada, which responded to the Allies) entered, whether officially or unofficially. Brazil's earlier actions were done with the express permission of the US. People forget that the US was originally leaning Axis as well and FDR was trying to play both sides until Hitler foolishly declared war on the US trying to get Japan's aid. Forgotten (read: covered over) fact: The US had been shipping Nazi Germany supplies as well as England as recently as November 1941. Minor tangential rant: I am sick of modern armerifat 'education' claiming the US were part of the Allies. The Allies were England's faction, which the US was never a part of. Allies != Allied Powers.
>>17144 >Anon, read that post again. <pic >we are speaking about a ww2-themed fantasy novel. Alright, guess that's fine, but too unrealistic for me, i find realistic scenarios more interesting than complete fantasy ones, after all, this is more an exercise to learn than ideas for a video game's plot there one can go as fantastical as one wishes >>17145 It would have been more fun, South America was pretty much spared from the war, it would've been interesting to have had a South American Theater with proper land battles and not just a handful of naval actions and submarine attacks. The funny thing with Brazil is that their version of fascism was anti-racist. >>17147 >People forget that the US was originally leaning Axis Isn't that pushing it? i'd say they were neutrality leaning if anything, though there was a significant support for the axis in the sectors of the population.
>>17149 >Isn't that pushing it? When the entire US Army, Navy, and Marine Corps were making war plans against the British Empire with the assumption of German aid, I don't really think it's pushing it. A reminder that War Plan Red assumed the assistance of 'an unnamed European Ally'. They certainly weren't talking about France. Remember that prior to Germany siding with Japan over China, FDR had nothing but good things to say about Hitler and the Nazis in general - in fact, 90% of their ideology matched up. If Germany had told Japan to back off (or Japan took America's deal to fight the USSR in the Meeting of Five Armies several years earlier), it's almost certain that the US would have gone Axis and the world would have turned out a lot differently.
What if Tito never split off from the soviet Union? How would it affect the cold war in the long term?
>>17141 >Is that gif a what-if the Russo-Japanese war had become ww1 scenario Yes
>>17157 *Sage
>>17153 Probably Non-Aligned moment is formed with India-Egypt ahead instead and pajeets at the helm. Yugo still probably gonna break up since Tito's sheer will alongisde his hopes and dreams was the sole thing holding the republic togeather. Not very plausible since Tito/Stalin started going for the neck REAL fast post WW2. Here's a few fun ideas for you guys: Lin Biao and the 751 plan (It's rymes with "Armed uprising") kick off sucessfully and Mao's raproachment with the west is thwarted and Mao is killed. Zhou Enlai isn't retarded and at the Lushan conference they coup out Mao for Peng Dehuai. Deng Xiaoping and Peng end up dissolving the CPC (those two were never "real" communists) and the Sino-Soviet split occurs in 1959. The Argies actually are competent enough to not reverse the torpedo gyros and their two subs intercep the British Carrier force of Sierra Leoine
>>17130 Operation Sealion is basically impossible yes. Don't forget that the inverse, D-Day, took the world's two largest navies, air superiority, good support from locals and a deception operation to move reserves and still wasn't a sure thing. There were also giant floating harbours and literal pipelines across the channel. The logistics of a naval invasion at scale are terrifying meanwhile Sealion plans proposed towing barges across which is a joke not to mention the German reliance on horses for transport adding a whole extra level of headache. There are two paths to knocking the UK out barring perhaps adding decades onto the timeline and/or proposing nukes. Firstly starvation but arguably continental Europe is at almost as much of a risk of starvation as the UK is plenty of incidents of starvation and resource shortages during WW2 unless they can swing around and kill the bulk of the USSR. Secondly threaten the Empire enough (close the Suez, pressure Spain to make noises about joining so Gibraltar is threatened) and offer very reasonable terms to both the UK and France to bow out and go fuck up the nips. This would require Germany to have stuck with allying with the Chinese instead of swapping to the Japanese but that probably would have worked better anyway since Japan would have acted the same alliance or not. It would also require Mussolini to not demand too much and that's a potential issue too. >>17143 >Germany kept a lot of their industry producing civilian goods even long after everyone else had switched to a war economy If memory serves it was 1943, after Stalingrad was fully retaken, that they finally went for a proper total war economy. >>17153 The real question is what if the Sino-Soviet split never happened. That had a far larger effect on the Cold War and led to post-Mao China being subtly backed by the USA.
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Could the n*zis have built a semi-mass production capable crude supercavitating torpedo or better yet rocket propelled midget submarines if a Strelok with Superkavitierender Unterwasserlaufkörper blueprints and extensive engineering+physics knowledge behind the weapon system were to get isekai'd back to June 1st 1940 Berlin?
>>17547 >Could the n*zis have built a semi-mass production capable crude supercavitating torpedo No, the infrastructure required to build practical supercavitation wouldn't exist for another ~30 years and even if you carried back plans to build all of that, it'd take longer than WW2 did just to build them. Same thing goes with your spoiler due to underwater rocket propulsion.
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Would KR Murica and Britain's economies really have crashed with no survivors by the mid-1920s? I could possibly see it happen in the UK by virtue of massive debt and trying to keep up with Willy's and Tirpitz' hyper-dreadnought construction programs making full use of Germany's industrial might with no more pesky resource shortages, naval treaties, multi-front land war or budgetary limits, but was the US so dependent on the British economy that a successful mid-1920s socialist rebellion combined with the G*rms capturing Britain's colonies in the chaos would create a decade long great depression?
>>18346 >Would KR Murica and Britain's economies really have crashed with no survivors by the mid-1920s? Possibly, but I'm not sure about america. I don't know much about the postWW1 to say much. Also TL191 post 2GW japan and some otherTL191 stuff
How would Strelok fix the Kansas problem if he could truck himself back to the 1850s?
>>19649 Perhaps you could give a brief overview of what the "kansas problem" was you are referring to?
>>19650 The Bleeding Kansas mini-civil war that served as a prelude to the American civil war.
What if Hitler got deported back to Austria-Hungary and was conscripted into its army. What would've the war been like for him?
>>19805 There are too many possibilities for us to consider. For all we know the most likely answer is that he dies in a random accident during the first year of the war. Or maybe he ends up saving the Dual Monarchy out of sheer spite towards the entente pigdogs.
What if Brazil's emperor wasn't deposed in a coup?
>>19815 Brazil would be a serious country.
Texas Annexing Greater California America Annexing Canada during the war of 1812, or just straight up continue the revolutionary war and liberate Scotia Nova so the French did not have to relocate to Louisiana. Liberia expanding territory and implimenting Thomas Jefferson's final solution. The berber states becoming apart of greater Liberia. The Spanish American war never happening. Would the Philippines be enough oil for the Japanese who I assume would have good ties with Francos Spain. The end of the three Kingdoms period never ending for both Chosen and zonghua. Mongols taken over all that land all the way up to the Volga and reigned a Empire for at least 7 centuries. Persia conquering India and getting rid of Hinduism completely in place of Zoroastrianism. ï.e no caste system but replaced by different slave system. Pegan Barbarians winning over Jeudeo Christian Romans not only on military grounds with fall of rome but also prevent spread of Christianity any farther north than the Alps for the subsequent future. Trojan War: The Hot Lady Sparta and Athens mad about instead fathers a Million plus Childern and coups Trojan Empire and Annex Athens and Sparta with her children.
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>>19805 Sorry, but I couldn't think of anything else.
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Would there be any notable changes in 20th century US infrastructural and industrial development if NEMA chose to adopt 230V 50hz AC power and Schuko-style plugs as the national standard in the interwar period?
>>19830 I don't know. But I'm not sure if this is /k/ related.
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>>17124 Damn this would be cool and all yet all of this would result for /k/ not existing and that is kinda sad.
How much of an impact would the Imperial German Army choosing to adopt the Mondragon M1908 as their basic service rifle circa 1910 have in the early months of the Great War?
>>19860 It could be possible that the soldiers would be better prepared at the trench war, maybe even making the german army win most battles, but that depends on generals and other strategists how good the battles shall end. Also I don't know the maintence of mondragon, so if someone would help me, it would be nice.
>>19830 Power generation and high voltage distributions would not really change I don't think, the final step down transformers would be slightly different. Industrial loads use 3-phase power - whole different ball of wax than the split phase power used in residential/commercial.
>>19860 It would have just resulted in faster adoption of semi-auto rifles for troops in the trenches by the opposing side. Most trench combat was hand-to-hand or required guys to steal carbines from the cavalry anyway
Japan form written language around 500 BC, and by 400 BC they underwent large scale agricultural revolution, by 300 BC they have decent metal working industry. Thier art and ritual of making Statue of Pregnant Women is much more widespread. By 200 bce the population is at 6 million. By 100 CE they finished a Civil War and the Families United (no sengoku period). No warring states period, and a Strong Slave State formed. Transition into a Peasant economy 400 years later but by 150 CE they start Raiding parties and spread like the Vikings did, becoming a empire. What would the possible wars would look like and would they stand a chance at Han or Mongol Empire?
If Italo Balbo hadn't gotten spaghetti'd by his own pizza cooks would the North African campaign have yielded any better results for the Axis?
>>19897 The thing about all empires prior to about the mid 1800s is that chemical fertilizers didn't exist outside Britain's guano mines and similar ventures. They are all doomed to fall when there's a famine brought on by a poor harvest or six. I don't think the Japanese even understood crop rotation until the hundreds.
Also even at 6 million strong, the ancient Japanese could not have won much more than sea battles. The region was sino-centric because Chins had a population that fluctuated between 30 million and 100 million roughly until the late 1500s when their population skyrocketed. Most of early history was fought using simple ranged weapons like the sling.
>>19906 >>19907 I was saying they did have chemical fertilizers for the sake of alternative history. I'd reckon they could've had the Philippines, Indonesia and Australia before the anglos arrived and the population then would be much greater half a millennia later.
>>19992 >Chemical fertilizers If they discovered that then they'd be the current history edition of the british empire. Literally prequisites for chemical fertilizers require a certain degree of industrialization. tl;dr we'd all be speaking weeb.
>>19997 Jesus christ, I've seen shit like that. Japanese kongo, japanese USA. Two chinas.
If the Japanese hadn't occupied Manchuria in 1931 would it be possible to get the Republic of China to sign the anti-Comintern pact? How would FDR view Japan if something like the Marco Polo bridge incident happened on the Sino-Soviet border circa 1939-1940, forcing the Chinese into war with the Soviet Union and leading Japan to "help" the ROC so the Commies don't threaten Korea in exchange for generous concessions in Manchuria? Would it make Barbarossa strategically feasible if Zhukov was busy leading a huge far eastern front against endlessly respawning starving illiterate pitchfork wielding bugmen? Would FDR let the Japanese join the Allies to legally rape Nanking even if they'd gain large amounts of land/resources they wouldn't be willing to return after the war? How cursed would a US-Soviet-Japanese cold war in China be?
>>20036 Strelok, the US had been trying to ally with Japan against the Soviets before they invaded Manchuria. Even afterwards, they made a last ditch effort to ally with the Japanese by offering to internationally recognize their claim on 'Manchuko' so long as they left the rest of China and American holdings in the Pacific alone (Philippines, Wake, Guam, and Hawaii) - backed up by most favorable trade deals on oil, electronics, and other such goods that Japan didn't have access to, with offers to explore for oil exploitation in Japanese holdings. The US was even offering to build Japan tanks, artillery, and other war material, but Japan said no and wanted everything for themselves - even going so far as to demand Hawaii from the US, which made FDR decide that Japan was going to be the target of his war. IF Japan hadn't pulled their historical stunts, the US - which had no love for England at the time - probably would have joined the Axis. Recall that the US was making preparations for war against England as late as 1937 and FDR had nothing but praise for Hitler until then as well. Before Japan rebuffed America's offer, even FDR had nothing but scorn for Stalin; afterwards, he opened up communications with the Soviets and started appointing communist sympathizers (George Marshall, for example). So, yeah, the present state of the world is Japan's fault; man, that got off on a tangent.
>>20036 Strelok, I don't know what you're smoking but you've gone from plausible alternate history to fiction. Remember that the "moderate" Tōseiha clique in the army held control ever since the 2-2-6 coup was crushed by the emperor. Had the Tōseiha clique been crushed instead of the Kōdōha by the emperor (unlikely, as the emperor's court favored the Tōseiha), then Japan would have struck north against the Soviets. Considering both army factions wanted expansion, collision with US interests is inevitable, especially since the dutch east oilfields is a question of when, not if. The only real way they don't push China at some point is if the civilian "democratic/liberal" faction manages to get rid of both cliques (even MORE unlikely). And if that happens, well, Chiang's going to go after Japan in 1945 (That's when they thought he would have finished the "modernization" of China) Japan in the 1930s is calm on the surface, but eerie close to a civil war. The fact Hirohito managed to navigate and play all sides to suit his preference of the strike south idea is quite the feat. Some may argue that he was forced into it, but I would argue they wouldn't even bother and forcibly abdicate him in favor of his son, Yasuhito instead >Zhukov If we talk a about a strictly plausible realm, Zhukov's appearance is not strictly necessary, there are other "great" generals in the USSR like Konev, Tukhachevsky, Shaposhnikov, Vasilevsky, Rokossovsky, Malinovsky, Varfolomeev , Isserson among others (I note the latter two for their theory contributions). The 2-2-6 incident happens in Feb, 1936, the first Moscow Trial is in August of 1936. It would be plausible that Stalin decides to not purge the military if it becomes obvious that both Japan and Germany will be enemies.
>>20037 >US was making preparations for war against England as late as 1937 Sauce? I know the US was buddy buddy with German Nazis up to the war but war with England?
>>20040 >Zhukov Someone else could have filled Zhukov's shoes almost certainly, but >a huge far eastern front Would definitely be a problem. USSR's ace was the ability to relocate manufacturing and training to Ural/Siberia regions in relative safety. An eastern front would fuck that up big time especially since it's such a vast area to cover.
>>20036 >How would FDR view Japan Badly. It wouldn't matter what they did. FDR wrote and had published, under his own name, multiple essays about how he hated Nihonjin with such fervor that even /pol/ would wonder what the fuck his problem was and wonder if he being given a platform by the Macon Telegraph to make racism look bad: Remember that at the time he published these he was the guy who ordered some guys in the Navy to have gay sex (which was rape) to to prove they and the people they fucked were gay and throw them out of the navy. That's why he suppressed the FBI and Naval Intelligence reports that said there was no threat from nikkei: Because it would hurt his excuse of using government power to smash them. The more you learn about FDR the more he makes comic book supervilains seem sane and rational.
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>>20046 >he was the guy who ordered some guys in the Navy to have gay sex (which was rape) to to prove they and the people they fucked were gay and throw them out of the navy. S-sauce?
>>20047 Newport Scandal.
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What is it lately with one entrenched camp saying Roosevelt was secretly a misunderstood good guy and the other saying he was Moloch incarnate?
>>20050 Most of the big government actions today can be justified because of policies under FDR. He essentially made the 1 year depression a four year depression and the only reason he was stopped was because the states were going bankrupt and threatening civil war if he didn't stop his mad campaign. Essentially he's the textbook example of everything that goes wrong when giving one man near-infinite power. The American education system damn near deifies him as a propaganda tool to justify big government actions today.
>>20050 He was insecure enough about his disability to be driven around in a Willys Jeep at public appearances. He also got a love boner for Stalin personally and threw Churchill (and Eastern Europe) under the bus.
>>20045 >eastern front I'm not sure how much that Japanese would be able to supply in Siberia given the relative lack of infrastructure compared to even China. Pull up the siberian railroad... and well... Plus, they only need to move their shit east of the Urals. Germans never had a proper strategic bomber. The more interesting question, how bad would lend lease be disrupted if they were forced to take Artic convoy ONLY routes.
>>20044 >sauce War Plan Red/Crimson/Scarlet was the US's mid-1930s era plans to fight the entirety of the British Empire all at the same time with the help of an unnamed European ally. These were from War Plan Rainbow, the same family of plans that brought us the mostly successful War Plan Orange. It's important to point out that in 1938 War Plan Black (the US' war plans against Germany) hadn't been updated since WW1.
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How would gay cold war proxy wars have been conducted if chemical weapons weren't banned or hampered by PR optics somehow? Would North Korea have any arable land left after the Korean war?
>>20068 >Would North Korea have any arable land left after the Korean war? You answered your own question. It would be abused once or twice, and then people would realize that they are essentially salting the earth and waging wars of eradication (few civilized men's wars were wars of eradication). By essentially chemically salting the earth on a massive scale, you're going to cause some pretty massive climate changes due to the disappearance of entire forest systems, and then the important nations are going to see that and promptly shit bricks. If not banned outright they would be heavily restricted in short order after actually being used. Also the US was more eager to find a way to weaponize literal nightmare fuel. Right now the newage censored internet is trying to keep me from using related search terms to locate the wikipedia article.
>>20059 Would be great if US had Canada and allied with the Spainards or France in that scenario. >>20068 They did do that anon....
>>20072 Agent Orange wasn't an anti-personnel agent though it was a demographic one.
>>20070 What is "literal nightmare fuel"?
>>20083 I don't remember the name of it and all the search results of the modern era prevent you from looking up things that make countries look bad. In any case it was a toxin that the American military derived that had effects similar to Anatoxin-a. Essentially it caused muscle spasms throughout the body and lung paralysis at lethal doses, while causing seizures, schizophrenic-like behavior, and hallucinations at non-lethal doses (that usually ended up killing them anyways). IIRC it was based on Japanese research they had confiscated.
Zangara hits FDR and Garner's policies allow the great depression to end instead of extend it to a decade. As the US is selling resources (including oil) to both sides (instead giving stuff to one side and refusing sale to the other in total violation of neutrality) minus Soviets (who won't get anything till they pay the WW1 debts they defaulted on), so Pearl Harbor never happens and the US doesn't get pulled into the war until it declares war on Germany (and only Germany) in 1943 in response to unrestricted submarine warfare. Other than adopting .276 Pederson and a better SMG, how would US arms and equipment differ in this timeline?
>>17127 >Why would he? Because he was a fucking communist himself and didn't give a shit about the law or public opinion.
>>20231 If you want an alternative history featuring .276 Pedersen, just say that the US actually adopted .303 British, and then quickly realized that reworking a clip-fed self-loading rifle for rimmed ammo would be too much of a hassle. They were actual talks about adopting 7.7mm Bong, so it wouldn't even be that much of a stretch. Of course for an even more alternative history we could say that they adopt the Vickers, the Lewis, and make the P14 their standard rifle, and so American small arms developments becomes a mess once they adopt a .276 Pedersen rifle and decide in the last moment to replace the rest of their ww1 vintage firearms for ww2. Also, once the Cold War starts, this scenario could lead to the FAL chambered for .276 Pedersen becoming a true NATO standard, because it would be a fair improvement over the M14 in the jungle.
Would there have been major changes in the development of naval warfare if the Second Pacific Squadron had been forced to abandon its grand voyage to Port Arthur and sail back to port after the Dogger Bank incident?
>>20231 The navy would be the most heavily impacted, to the point that we might try to back out of the second LNT. That's a pretty huge change, so let's assume it doesn't happen. With no IJN carriers wrecking our shit, the battleship advocates will have a much stronger case since British carriers haven't had much success by this point. I'd expect at least one or two more SoDaks or Iowas ordered, maybe three if the battleship faction actually manages to get some carriers canceled. The Montanas would definitely be completed. We'd also have a lot more modern destroyers available early on, to the point that we probably wouldn't need to bother with DEs. The biggest changes to the army would be a switch to .276 and the procurement of a new LMG (probably just an upside-down BAR with a bigger magazine and replaceable barrels). The M1 carbine might not be procured at all, or might evolve into an early assault rifle. We'd probably keep the Thompson, AFAIK the army was pretty happy with them aside from the pricetag. The tank scare that led to the Lee and M10 doesn't happen here, so Sherman and Hellcat probably enter service a few months early but are otherwise unchanged. The USAAF would actually be kind of screwed in this timeline, since they haven't had two years of combat experience to beat the stupid out of them. I'm not sure if we'd be building Merlins before the war in this scenario, so we might also enter the war without an effective high-altitude fighter. USN aviation is much better off, but wouldn't see a ton of action since the naval war is pretty much over by the end of 1943. >>20276 With no big victory, Japan doesn't go full retard (in more than one sense). The US might not realize the value of plunging fire so early, and Jackie Fisher's theories wouldn't be vindicated for a bit longer. The rest of the world would normalize after WW1, but Japan is completely unrecognizable by 1940.
>>20302 >The M1 carbine might not be procured at all, or might evolve into an early assault rifle Actually, come to mention it, the .30 Carbine would never exist in a .276 Pedersen world since it was chosen for because they could share the .30 cal tooling with .30-06. .276 is a unique diameter from what I can tell, as far as I can tell, .30 cal is the only place where good for pistol and good for rifle overlap.
No one cares about the big picture. Americans used to be outraged about Bruce Jenner, Greta Thunberg, statues, Epstein, Smollett, and George Floyd. Now Americans have lost their minds about Biden, but no one cares that the US is a bankrupt warmongering police state.
>>20376 People only give a shit about themselves. Shit like Epstein affected their kids and shit like Biden forces them to reorient their goals in order to not get fucked in this economy where no job is sacred and immune to being outsourced. People can't give a shit about the fact that everything is clown world when their very livelihoods are at risk and this won't change until the water is already boiling. Our current society is focused on avoiding blame at all costs instead of fixing the problem. You can thank the military industrial complex for that one. You were born too early to participate in societal collapse so you might as well ride the tiger and find a way to profit off of useful idiots. Can't speak for anyone else but Chink Flu alone reduced my standards of living from emerging middle class who could afford nice things back to the poverty line thanks to the electronics industry collapsing and minimum wage skyrocketing in my home state while people are already down on their luck. I don't have time to give a shit about the raping of Common Law when I have to work to eat.
How habitable would Britain have been in the aftermath of the war if Hitler had ordered every V-1 to carry SD-2 cluster munitions filled with Sarin? Would the Allies have the willingness to permanently salt Continental Europe in response?
Our overlords don't even have a good reason for the nanny police state anymore. Toothpicks must be outlawed to protect the environment. Rope must be banned for safety. Baseball hats must be outlawed because they are ugly. Insurance must be mandatory to protect the insurance industry. Flagpoles must be banned to protect property values. Why not just put Americans in prison when they're born?
>>21433 >>21434 It's rather eerie how right they got it, especially if we consider that the Cold War was only kicking in, and the soviets didn't have any nuclear bombs and were yet to launch a satellite. Of course, we never had an actual nuclear war, so we can't know for sure if this is really how one would look like, or if this is merely a fantasy shared by too many people.
>>21435 The ideas set forth all are sound and still recommended or implemented today. Things like indefinite aerial refueling, and radar allowing rockets to operate semi or completely autonomously are commonplace things now. Others like knowing missile defense systems will never destroy the majority of missiles, a need for a decentralized military. and that deterrence is the most important security with nuclear weapons are ideas that are still put forward.
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>>21461 What I find remarkable is that if you go back 40 years to 1905, then machine guns have been around for decades, and that proved the worth of both light and medium (called heavy at the time) machine guns, yet in 1914 armies still didn't have proper TO&Es and tactics that took all of that into account. Meanwhile the krauts launched some missiles that barely did anything, burgers levelled two cities with the new bombs, and that was enough to figure out how a nuclear war with ICBMs would look like. It looks like they learned how to learn and extrapolate from a few events, and that's why this article really blows my mind. It's like if someone wrote an article in 1906 that predicted trench warfare and suggested stormtroops armed with grenades and light automatic weapons, supported by tanks that had a single rotating turret with a cannon and a co-ax machine gun.
>>21486 >and that proved the worth of both light and medium (called heavy at the time) machine guns, yet in 1914 Instead of that I wanted to write the Russo-Japanese war.
How far did Japan get in the process of producing a nuclear weapon by the time they surrendered and if they had produced one what it have given then enough leverage to make an armistice?
>>21511 Japan's nuclear program was a total joke. The only way they could get enough material for a bomb before 1947 is if Germany gave them some. This was all well-known to the Americans.
>>21486 >It's like if someone wrote an article in 1906 that predicted trench warfare and suggested stormtroops armed with grenades and light automatic weapons, supported by tanks that had a single rotating turret with a cannon and a co-ax machine gun. Don't suppose you ever read H.G. Wells' "The Land Ironclads" (written 1903), where he predicted trench warfare, tanks, and sturmtruppen?
>>21518 Wow, I never heard of this shit. That's intresting.
>>21520 >>21521 >>21522 Do you have more covers?
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>>21543 >you will never run over and crush the wooden spokes off the rubber wheels on another battle car. Why live? In all seriousness how would history look if cars never progess more then your pic?
>>21544 >In all seriousness how would history look if cars never progess more then your pic? Offroad cars would never exist and heavier vehicles would have problems. So yeah, it would be actually kind of crap. But mostlikely heavier vehicles would use threads
>>21542 >>21543 Thanks, anon
>In 1945, when Japan surrendered, Chiang's Chongqing government was ill-equipped and ill-prepared to reassert its authority in formerly Japanese-occupied China, and it asked the Japanese to postpone their surrender until Kuomintang (KMT) authority could arrive to take over. >American troops and weapons soon bolstered KMT forces, allowing them to reclaim cities. The countryside, however, remained largely under Communist control. >For over a year after the Japanese surrender, rumors circulated throughout China that the Japanese had entered into a secret agreement with Chiang, in which the Japanese would assist the Nationalists in fighting the Communists in exchange for the protection of Japanese persons and property there. >Many top nationalist generals, including Chiang, had studied and trained in Japan before the Nationalists had returned to the mainland in the 1920s, and maintained close personal friendships with top Japanese officers. >The Japanese general in charge of all forces in China, General Yasuji Okamura, had personally trained officers who later became generals in Chiang's staff. >Reportedly, General Okamura, before surrendering command of all Japanese military forces in Nanjing, offered Chiang control of all 1.5 million Japanese military and civilian support staff then present in China. >Reportedly, Chiang seriously considered accepting this offer, but declined only in the knowledge that the United States would certainly be outraged by the gesture. >Even so, armed Japanese troops remained in China well into 1947, with some noncommissioned officers finding their way into the Nationalist officer corps. >That the Japanese in China came to regard Chiang as a magnanimous figure to whom many Japanese owed their lives and livelihoods was a fact attested by both Nationalist and Communist sources. Do you think Chiang could have finally united China and established a Democracy if he had taken the Japanese up on their offer? I feel like no matter how angry the US military became, they would have still sided with Chiang and it would have given Japan an "out" to get out of a lot of the shit with US occupation and strengthened Sino-Japanese ties stabilizing the region.
>>21559 There would be far more widespread and pervasive railway infrastructure as it would be the most cost-efficient way of overland cargo transport. Horses and other draft animals would be remain relevant in their niches for far longer.
>>21747 Honestly, yes, that would have been a 'good' timeline compared to the one we got; and I strongly doubt that the US would have batted an eye had he accepted Okamura's offer in the first place. In fact, I forget where exactly, but I recall reading that MacArthur actually was very pissed at Chiang for not accepting that offer, calling him an absolute idiot that didn't know how to utilize the resources that he had available to him and couldn't identify a gift horse if it rode in with a giant neon sign. Further, MacArthur actually was opposed to demilitarizing Japan, having wanted to redirect their military might towards the Soviets/Communists, and Chiang's bungling that cost him that vision. Of course, that's just what I had read, and I don't know how reliable that source was.
>>21747 In Chiang's situation he was forced to leave the Japanese to administer parts of the country he couldn't occupy due to lack of resources and manpower anyway, which ended up becoming propaganda fodder for the CCP, so he might as well have assented to the agreement. The US already hated working with him and rapidly demobilized at the war's end, so they weren't and didn't come to his aid with anything more than funding. Hindsight being 20/20 though, nobody expected the CCP to end up as well equipped as it did from looting IJA supply caches at the end of the war, so Chiang being cocky as was his inclination wasn't totally unjustified.
Add another enemy: ALL ALIENS. Every NPC defaults to that naive mentality trope of aliens only using Kinetic war, or military action. Their deeds are mostly published, however to any observer at random times, the perpetrations seem thusly uncoordinated and infrequent. When put together, there is a pattern of unconventional warfare being waged against us. Theres over twenty different types of Unconventional War: - Diplomatic warfare - Financial warfare - Network warfare - Trade warfare - Biochemical warfare - Intelligence warfare - Resources warfare - Ecological warfare - Psychological warfare - Economic aid warfare - Space warfare - Tactical warfare - Regulatory warfare - Electronic warfare - Smuggling warfare - Sanction warfare - Guerrilla warfare - Drug warfare - Media warfare - Terrorist warfare - Virtual/Cyber warfare - Ideological warfare "Any of the above types of methods of operation can be combined with another of the above methods of operation to form a completely new method of operation. Regardless of whether it is intentional or unintentional, the carrying-out of combined methods of operation using different methods of operation that go beyond domains and categories has already been applied by many nations in the practice of warfare." - Unrestricted Warfare: china's Master Plan to Destroy America by Qiao Liang, Wang Xiangsui (1999) Add: - Telepathic warfare - Human Disguise Infiltration warfare - Migration warfare
>>21775 Ayy pussy. Imagine.
>>21775 Take your meds, then go back to reddit.
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>>21775 you forgot: - Insect Warfare
Anons, how would you make your own german ww1 victory scenario? And how would you make a Kaiserreich sequel scenario
>>21790 >don't pause the submarine campaign >invest way more on submarines >after the initial gains be completely defensive on the west until Russia is dealt with
>>21792 The sub campaign became media fodder to sway the US public against Germany though. No one expected the war to last as long as it did that Germany would have expected to need to blockade Britain with subs.
>>21790 >the Austro-Hungarian commander of the Serbian front is not Potiorek, instead it's someone with enough sense not to needlessly get some of the dual monarchy's best troops slaughtered by the tens of thousands >AH can at least come close to pulling its own weight, thus Russia collapses that much faster >Germany invests a lot more in cargo submarines, uses them as a sort of publicity stunt to show the 'merican public that they just want to wage their war in peace, or something >somehow manage to amass enough debt with the help of those subs so that US government does not want to immediately side with the entente due to financial reasons >after the Russian collapse Germany does not waste troops on trying to occupy great swathes of Russia, instead sends everyone to the west >with no burgers in sight, and with a lot more soldiers in front of Paris the French might come to the conclusion that they had enough fun for the time being and accept an armistice Or just go with the classic of Germany not trying to challenge Britain in a naval arms race, and ww1 starts with the Royal Navy blockading France, and then Germans just repeat 1871.
>>21798 It still took a year for the US to show up in force, they wouldn't have done so had France fell and/or Britain sued for peace >>21802 >Germany not trying to challenge Britain in a naval arms race This, have Wilhelm die in an unexpected accident before he can fuck up German geopolitics
>>21790 Easy way >Germany (etc. all) stops British from cutting Atlantic telegraph lines >propagandizes that, since the US funded them (at least in part) and they are used by American industry, British attacks on them are a crime against the people of the United States Done. Without this propaganda the British can't convert the Americans to defacto ally early in the war, or force them into the war later.
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Say that towards the latter period of the Vietnam war the north Vietnamese obtain a number of then-modern AShMs such as the KS1 and Kh-22 along with their launch platforms in a super secret backroom deal with the Soviet Union who really want to perform real-world testing under battlefield conditions. Around 1970 the USS Forrestal leads a CVBG in the South China Sea that just so happens to include the USS Wisconsin because John McCain wanted to pose for a photograph in front of a Battleship at sea the Forrestal fire never happens ITL, they get attacked and due to a combination of luck and the CIA being duped a VPAF Tu-95 squadron carrying Kh-22s cripples the Forrestal, sinks a destroyer and only causes minor waterline damage to the Wisconsin. What effects on military naval planning and engineering would this have for the rest of the 20th century? >>21790 >British never sell Helgoland to the Germans >Wilhelm II is content to have his naval might exceed that of the Russian Atlantic+Baltic fleets and French navy, though mostly focusing on the Russians as he doesn't want the British to fortify Helgoland too much >Britain remains neutral during WWI, assuming that still happens
>>21808 >USS Wisconsin Well, for starters, your scenario already implicates that all four of the Iowas have been reactivated since the Wisconsin was last on the list, which suggests that the US' war mobilization level is a lot higher than historical. But in practical value it means that the US and basically NATO would declare war on the Soviet Union. Since the arms deal was a backroom, the attack would have been assumed to have been perpetrated by the Soviet Union (especially if Tu-95s were involved, since the Soviets were the only user of the Tu-95s - that would be like B-52s showing up, everyone would blame the US by default), and basically nobody in the international sphere would be able to deny it. In short, about 40 minutes after the attack happened either (unlikely) ICBM payloads would be landing around the world, or (more likely) WW3 would be burning across Europe, or (dark horse) the Soviet Union reveals the deal (or claims the weapons were stolen) and throws Vietnam under the bus, cutting all support and likely bombing the NVA themselves for the (purported) insult.
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>>21812 Would this still happen if the deal involving the Tu-95s was only partially backroom in that North Vietnam would leak/announce a false date of delivery that is plausibly close enough to the planned date of the attack for VPAF Tu-95s to exist but not close enough for the US to expect them at full operational capability might combine this with North Vietnam deliberately flunking some air battles so the US thinks the VPAF won't send any large bombers to the frontline and if they do it's unlikely for them to achieve their objectives while keeping the missile deliveries a secret? Would North Vietnam operating even a small number of Tu-95s be enough to convince the US government not to abandon South Vietnam? What if they chose Tu-16s instead? Or could the Tu-95/Tu-16/Xian H-6 if Sino-NVA relations are good enough deal itself be seen as a non-nuclear Cuban missile crisis?
>>21820 During that era, the presence of international strategic bombers on the NV side would give the US Mil enough sway with the US Congress to get them to reverse Kennedy's agreement and declare full fledged war against NV. Strategic weapons such as those (which is what StratBombers were considered) were one of the multiple things the US Military and CIA was looking for as the go-card for full force operations. History would have went very, very different.
>>21823 How did Indonesia get away with it?
>>21832 By not being the target of a massive proxy war between the two largest great powers in the history of man?
>>21833 Would the US have declared war on Indonesia if the 1965 Communist coup attempt succeeded and they decided to send some materiel to NV or serve as an intermediary between the USSR and North Vietnam?
>>21834 Considering that the US of the time was trying to play anti-communist world police, it's highly likely the US may have at least marginally tried intervening, but it's unlikely with the US already distracted as much as they were that they would have been able to actually open up another front and the most the anti-communists in the territory would get would be sporadic arms assistance and special operations actions. That's just me talking off the top of my head, though.
>>21806 They could also rile up the Oirish Community in the US by telling them stories about the Anglos introducing the draft only to use the poor boys of the Emerald Island as bullet-catchers. Imagine if they conducted such an effective propaganda campaign that there are constant protests in New York, calls to boycott any company that does business with the British Empire, and so on and on.
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>Germany does not participate in the 1895 Triple intervention at all >Kraut-Nip relations remain stable, they order more warships from german shipyards to build up the IJN than they did historically, though their pre-Dreadnoughts are still built in British shipyards >France loans several cruisers flying Russian flags with French crews to the Russian second Pacific squadron during the Russo-Japanese war, Admiral Rozhestsvensky puts the fleet under quasi-French command by putting French "observers" next to his more troublesome officers for much of the voyage in order to more effectively beat some morale and talent into his men >the Dogger Bank incident never happens and the Russo-French fleet can properly dock and resupply+train at French ports, as such they sail into Tsushima strait in noticeably better condition than they did in OTL and defeat Togo's fleet, albeit not decisively >Japan still wins the Russo-Japanese war but the peace treaty is much less favorable to them leaving both sides displeased at the outcome >the great game doesn't end Would the Japanese grow paranoid and try to build up a large fleet of Battleships to deter European great powers from invasion at any cost through German shipyards because the British don't want the IJN to grow uncontrollably while the Krauts want just that as long as the Japanese leave their colonies and Chinese concessions alone or would the loss of IJN prestige lead to internal conflict with the IJA? Could a possibly opportunistic/paranoid Japan at the outbreak of WWI in combination with more overt Franco-Russian colonial ambitions and Wilhelminic dreadnought wankery convince the British to remain neutral so as to not risk a two-front naval war against regionally competitive opponents? How would german-built Kongou in TTL's Kancolle be like?
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How many points do you guys give this mao pf 1950 africa Story Germano-soviet axis gets formed in 1939 and america never gets attacked
>>22041 What do the colors represent?
>>22045 The grey are german outposts. The red and the yellow in middle africa are remnants of colonies from belgium and britain. And ofcourse everything else there in middle africa are niggers. The blue north and northwest are frances. The small dots are free france and the other are petains frances. The yellow up north is spain. The green up north are italian colonies. The other green are portugals colonies. And the orange is south africa
>>21836 IRL there were anti-draft riots during the Civil War in NYC. The Union was basically press-ganging Irishmen, Germans, and Swedes fresh off the boat, putting muskets in their hands, and sending them south a hundred thousand at a time.
The USA is supposed to be a free country, but it is a police state. The US is no longer a democracy, Americans no longer have rights, and everything is illegal. The government blatantly breaks the law and then laughs and expects Americans to obey the law and pay taxes. How can Americans sleep at night now? What would an American do if he was married, had a house, car, job, and $100,000? Would he throw everything away to fight for freedom or would he try to justify being unconstitutionally wiretapped, groped by the TSA, being tracked with license plate readers, stopping for checkpoints, and being stopped and frisked? How much is liberty worth to you? Maybe Americans might benefit from studying King Charles, the French Revolution, the American Revolution, the Civil War, and the Vietnam War. http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/king-charles-i-executed-for-treason https://www.history.com/topics/french-revolution https://www.history.com/topics/american-revolution/american-revolution-history http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0343168/
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Found something
>>22335 Is this a tabletop RPG or someone's Devianart drawings?
>>22346 The last one is from a Kaiserreich project. The other two from a hoi4 mod
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>>22352 Hmm. Okay. Are they supposed to be wearing American style laced combat boots instead of jackboots, and wearing them American style with their trouser cuffs bloused into the tops, instead of Wickelbänder (puttees) covering the top portion of the boot and going a bit up the shin? They also seem to be wearing American style BDU pants with cargo pockets, which do not seem to have been a feature of any Wehrmacht uniform I know of. Also, Strichtarn was forced on the East Germans by the Russians during the occupation, and very closely resembles the camo patterns they also forced the Poles, Czechs, Hungarians, and so on, to use. I would have expected a Werhmacht that continued to exist after 1945 to use one of the late-war experimental patterns like Liebermuster or something plausibly derived from them. Flecktarn, like the guy in the second image is wearing, looks a lot like some of the experimental late-war camo patterns like Erbsenmuster 44, because it was derived from them.
>after the USSR falls, the West goes further in normalizing relations with Russia >Real history's mere idle discussions of Russia becoming part of NATO in 2000 instead lead, surprisingly, to it actually joining by mid-2001 >9/11 >Article 5 against Afghanistan now also includes Russian forces, freshly part of the alliance and with all the friction (emotional, doctrinal, etc) that comes with that >the Coalition now includes an army that only got out of long, miserable war with those same opponents a decade prior, including veterans who've fought there personally What does the Afghan war look like now? Does it still end in a humiliatingly rapid collapse back to the Taliban two decades later as soon as NATO leaves and stops propping up the corrupt puppet government? Is it more successful? Less? Does anyone learn anything from Soviet experience?
>>25791 Russia strongly opposes the US war plan and refuses to send more than a token force, which emboldens many other NATO members to do the same. While the US military can do their job just fine without foreign support, this is a PR disaster and public opinion on the war sours even faster than it did IRL. Bush loses the 2004 elections badly, and the leftist who replaces him turns the 2007 recession into a full-scale economic collapse. Ron Paul wins the 2008 elections, and the Afghanistan war ends within a year or so. Iraq never happens.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1932_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1932_United_States_presidential_election . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Ford . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Scott . Henry Ford decided to take a more active stance in politics starting in 1930 after a failed attempt on his life. While surveying the political arena he found himself interested in the young(er) founder of Technocracy, Howard Scott. Henry invited Scott to tour his factories and have dinner, and they quickly became good friends, with Ford taking the younger Scott on as a disciple. In 1931, Ford decided to run for President as a Democrat with Scott as his VP choice. Together they managed to barely defeat Franklin D. Roosevelt in the primaries, followed by a landslide victory in the 1932 presidential election over Herbert Hoover. . In foreign policy, the USA maintains their oil embargo on Japan, fearing an Asian superstate competitor in Asia. . However, the USA is truely neural in the war between the Allies and the Axis, and sells goods to both. . Outside of the USA, history largely matches our timeline until Hitler kicks Japan out of the Axis after their failure to invade the Soviet Union by, at the latest, September 1, 1941 as was demanded. The Japanese leadership is conflicted. They could try and win Hitler back by attempting an invasion of the Soviet Union. But the Soviet Union appears unbeatable and the ‘go south’ faction has too much power. Thus they decide to attack the USA as planned but without German assistance. However, they have a brilliant idea. What if they made a deal with the Allies? Germany is far away and would not be able to retaliate. If Japan assisted Britain with their war with Germany, they would be able to acquire sufficient fuel from the Allies in return… and maybe even join the allies. Then, after a formal treaty was signed, would Japan attack the USA. . Japan contacts Churchill with their terms, that Japan would join and fully assist the Allies in all operations if they were free to do as they wished in China, and to sweeten the deal, Japan offered Churchill the Chinese provinces of Guangdong, Guangxi, and Yunnan. Churchill took the bait. The prospect of greatly expanding the Empire appealed to his old fashioned Imperialism, but more importantly, Japan had a mighty navy that would no longer be a potential threat but instead an asset! Japan formally joined the Allies, and declared war on the members of the Axis October 1, 1941. Japan sent almost all their novice and/or non-Japanese soldiers to wherever Churchill requested. They also sent all their older naval vessels, and gave them too Churchill to use as he would like. . Japan attacks Pearl Harbour as in our timeline, while claiming that Japanese shipping had been attacked by the USA first. In claiming to have been attacked first Japan activities their treaty with Britain and the Allies. The Allies have no choice but to declare war on the USA, with Churchill leading the pack. . The USA joins the Axis
>>26123 ...So, let me get this straight, Henry Ford, a lifelong (and well known) Republican, somehow runs as a democrat and wins their primary?
>>26126 lol, I thought he was a Democrat (White Nationalist), well, I guess you could just change it to have him win as the Republican candidate... not sure how that would change internal USA politics though.
>>26123 >The USA joins the Axis Do they still manage to nuke anyone?
>>26126 >>26127 NVM, yes despite being a life long 'Republican' Henry after his close encounter with death decides he wants to win and so joins the 'Democratic' party and runs a hostile takeover. Due to his extreme popularity he manages to barely win over Roosevelt. >>26144 Yes, I would imagine, likely Hiroshima, Moscow, and Stalingrad... possibly more Soviet cities if necessary.
>>26323 Of course, it's also possible that this timeline throws off the Manhattan project somehow, resulting in a longer and more brutal WW2.
>>26127 >not sure how that would change internal USA politics though. Internally, it'd get the Republicans on board with Ford's version of economic aid, which was industrialization and getting jobs to the people, and enough of the Democrats likely would've either been in favor of the package or be able to be shamed into doing so. So, it's likely the US would have drastically reduced the felt impact of the Great Depression inside of the US itself, the Dust Bowl would still cause major problems but its overall impact on the US economy would be lower. Rebuilding would have progressed a lot faster after the fact as well. One major area that would be noticed would be Military Readiness. The Republican congress had been pushing for what essentially was a precursor to BuShips and the DoT&E in the late 20s and 30s, but were blocked by past Republican presidents and then FDR until the Mk7 gun debacle caused him enough shame to create BuShips. (Eisenhower flirted with the concept of a DoT&E during his era, but it'd be Reagan before that concept was actually made good on.) The industrialist Ford would have been likely to have pushed forward their concepts without delay, the testing of military equipment in the US (or rather the lack thereof) was something he opined on during the 30s anyway. So, ironically, this would result in many of the felt impacts of the internal changes being felt in the Military. For example, the Mk14 Torpedo debacle wouldn't have happened and the M4 Shermans would have come out a bit later but as a stop-gap before something Pershing sized came out, and the US would have had probably twice the industrial capacity that they did historically. The changes would be rather wide ranging, but overall things would look similar. That being said, most of the impact would be external. To start with, your premise point of the US still embargoing Japan would be unlikely. But for various reasons relating to Ford himself this would be unlikely anyway. The Republicans ironically considered Japan to be an ally worth winning over - keep in mind that the Republicans had started a Technology sharing agreement with Japan under Harding (mostly formalized under Coolidge) that FDR canned in mid-1936 after he decided they were his war target. Before this, Japan-American relations had been warming rapidly, as a matter of fact the lead Architect of the 'New Order in East Asia' plan (precursor of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere), Hachirō Arita (Japanse Minister of Foreign Affairs, 1936-1940), was an Ameriboo who wanted a permanent Military Alliance between the US and Japan. If Ford was in charge, it's unlikely he would have canceled this technology sharing agreement and very likely he would have been in favor of further friendly relations between the two powers. As such it's extremely unlikely that the Japanese would have been as direct in their activities in the pacific towards US holdings. For that matter, the Republicans were no friends of China, particularly not Chiang Kai-shek , so it's likely possible that a Henry Ford Administration (with the backing of a Republican congress) would have just sold the American claims in China to Japan in exchange for assurances they'd leave the actual American holdings in the Pacific alone. Which, if buttered up with the resource trade deals the Republicans favored (and the Japanese would have loved anyway), the Japanase probably would have taken. In fact, it's actually far more likely that the US and Japan would have formed a 'Greater Pacific Alliance' than it is for the US in this scenario to have antagonized Japan as historical, especially given the number of major figures in the Japanese military that were extremely favorable to the US (ironically even Hirohito and Tojo themselves were fans of American culture, particularly the gunboat diplomacy part); keep in mind also that the US was militarily nominally hostile to the British Empire during the late 20s and early to mid 30s. It took the Half-American Churchill no small effort to win even FDR over, even though FDR was already antagonizing Japan (and Germany, due to Hitler's decision to support Japan over China) by that point, and even then he couldn't get FDR to act in the UK's favor against the Soviet Union. That being said, Ford purportedly was so infuriated when he learned about the 'Man Called Intrepid' (in 1938, no less, contrary to popular impression, the US caught Intrepid very early on in his campaign) that he called it in no uncertain terms an act of war against the US on the part of England. He wouldn't get over that until late 1942. (Why would he have known? Supposedly, his friends from the military told him.) With this in mind, a Henry Ford Administration, with Republican backing, would likely have swung towards the Axis on their own without a sudden betrayal of the Japanese; and it's even likely that Japan and Germany would have gotten along better than historical due to a sea-land-sea trade route opening between them via the US.
>>26324 Ironically, the Tizard Mission actually put the US on the entirely wrong path when it came to the bomb and the US would have gotten there faster without the British's 'help'. They only succeeded after kicking the British scientists out of the labs and restarting their own projects. This only isn't taught today because one, England controls most history book publications in English; and two, Truman wanted to blame the British for creating the nuke. Essentially everything in the Tizard mission was a dud as far as the US was concerned, even though the US of the time wasn't aware of this. It was revealed later that the US was on the fast track to modern-style fixed panel Phased Array Radar in 1939, but went with the cavity magnetron because that was simpler after England unintentionally gave it to them. The AN/SPY-1 is actually based on designs that date back to 1937. The VT Fuse that England so loves to claim they created was actually a 1936 American design, the British just made a few (admittedly very good) recommendations on producing them cheaper.
The Spanish civil war doesn't go so well for the Nationalists due to more overt French involvement, it's still ongoing by the time the Germans go to vacation in Poland with the Nationalists slowly getting pushed back to Calabria and Portugal having issues with refugees fleeing from CNT-FAI rape gangs. Although the Republicans aren't terribly threatening after years of exhausting internecine mountain warfare the German general staff still makes plans to invade Spain and capture Gibraltar hopefully with legal backing from the Nationalists if they still exist at that point. Norway is never seriously considered for an invasion, though there are plans to provide materiel and troops to them in the event the British invade. Nationalist Spain barely hangs on and when the Germans break through the Ardennes in 1940 the French realize that they've sent a few guns too many to the Spanish Republicans and try to get them back, the Republicans refuse while German tank crews observe the scenic French countryside. The British see the writing on the wall much earlier and GTFO before the Germans reach Dunkerque taking most of their heavy equipment with them across the channel. France surrenders in early June with the remaining French government and much of the populace viewing the British as dirty backstabbers, Hitler takes advantage of this and offers the French very mild interim terms that let them internally administrate themselves while providing full military access and materiel to the German army. Since France is still notionally under "neutral" French control barring some german garrison overseers in her ports the British don't conduct an air war over French soil and neither do the Germans, with Churchill&co. thinking the French will rise up after the Germans bleed themselves dry in Spain. Most of Norway is captured by the British except for the southernmost portion where a Free France-tier Axis liberation army made up of Norwegians and German "volunteers" holds onto Oslo. Fall Rot begins in August 1940 with German mountain infantry historically used in Greece assisted by Paratroopers historically used in Crete, the full might of the Luftwaffe and the Italian navy completely obliterating the Republican defense in the Pyrenees against both British and German expectations, and the BEF that was expecting mountain warfare at the Franco-Spanish border now has to deal with rapidly advancing German tank corps assisted by Italian marines in the Spanish interior, better yet as the Germans advance Republican Spain descends into glorious socialist anarchy with not a single church left standing. Allied propaganda blames the humanitarian disaster on evil German terror bombings but the BEF has to abandon a quarter of their equipment due to thievery and sabotage from their "allies" while rarely engaging the Germans, meanwhile Greece joins the Axis in early September of their own accord. The Germans, Italians, Spanish Nationalists and French-Portuguese volunteers reach Gibraltar in mid October, during the battle a RAF bomber somewhere in North Africa where the British have been successfully driving the Italians towards Tripoli mistakenly sinks a French trawler, Petain wanted to declare war against the British anyway so he takes the opportunity and declares war on the eternal Anglo, with France being permitted to remilitarize under German oversight after prior negotiations with Hitler. Gibraltar falls on the first of November and Portugal officially joins the Axis. What would FDR and Stalin do in this situation?
>>26442 The US didn't even realize that air-dropped nuclear weapons were possible until the MAUD report, which Briggs initially tried to cover up because it'd take money away from his pet projects. Up until then, the US nuclear program had massively overestimated critical mass and thought that a nuclear weapon would weigh several hundred tons. Also, >practical phased-array radar in 1941 This is some real Ameriboo delusion right here
>>26441 Interesting, then the Axis would completely dominate in your interestingly more realistic scenario—you are more aware of many details than I. Of course, IRL Ford didn't run for president because he feared (((assassination))). So surviving an assassination attempt might indeed have motivated him to run for the Republican presidency.
>>26582 >This is some real Ameriboo delusion right here The Americans not only successfully developed practical Phased Array Radar historically by 1941, they actually deployed them on battleships and cruisers in the form of the Mark 3, Mark 8, and Mark 13 radar sets. The problem was that the American PARs were short ranged but highly accurate, making for excellent gunfire control radar but very poor air-search radar. That being said, the Germans successfully developed prototypes for long ranged (albeit inaccurate) air-search PAR as early as late 1942. It is no great leap to believe that the Americans and the Germans, who are in this hypothetical timeline allies, would be able to put their heads together and combine their findings to produce a viable alternative to British-style radar.
>>26123 I still like this scenario because it balances the powers. Simply adding the USA to the Axis side without subtracting Japan makes the Axis side OP—best timeline? ...Of course, you could have FDR still as the USA president and have them unofficially join the Axis so long as Japan is with the Allies and still attacks Pearl Harbour: POD (point of divergence from IRL) Hitler kicks Japan out of the Axis after their failure to invade the Soviet Union by, at the latest, September 1, 1941. The Japanese leadership is surprised and conflicted. They could try and win Hitler back by attempting an invasion of the Soviet Union. But the Soviet Union appears unbeatable and the ‘go south' faction has too much power. Thus they decide to attack the USA as planned but without German assistance. However, they have a brilliant idea. What if they made a deal with the Allies? Germany is far away and would not be able to retaliate. If Japan assisted Britain with their war with Germany, they would be able to acquire sufficient fuel from the Allies in return… and maybe even join the allies. Then, and only after a formal treaty was signed, would Japan attack the USA. Japan contacts Churchill with their terms, that Japan would join and fully assist the Allies in all operations if they were free to do as they wished in China, and to sweeten the deal, Japan offered Churchill the Chinese provinces of Guangdong, Guangxi, and Yunnan. Churchill took the bait. The prospect of greatly expanding the Empire appealed to his old fashioned Imperialism, but more importantly, Japan had a mighty navy that would no longer be a potential threat but instead an asset! Japan formally joined the Allies, and declared war on the members of the Axis October 1, 1941. Japan sent their novice and/or non-Japanese soldiers to wherever Churchill requested. They also sent their older naval vessels, and commanded the captains to obey the British Naval command. Sadly for Britain this was a honeypot. Japan attacks Pearl Harbour as in our timeline, but not until after claiming that Japanese shipping had been attacked by the USA first. In claiming to have been attacked first Japan activities their treaty with Britain and the Allies. The Allies have no choice but to declare war on the USA or risk disgrace. Shortly after the USA declares war on Japan, Churchill declares war on the USA. The rest of the Allies follow, except for Canada. Canada is in a precarious position, war with the USA would almost certainly result in complete defeat. So their strategy is to delay. FDR is a high ranking Mason serving the Illuminati, and a Communist sympathiser, he refuses to join the Axis, however, for all intents and purposes the USA is now fighting on the side of the Axis. Japan occupies the Philippines (faster than IRL) and the Hawaiian Islands. Britain and Japan use Canada as a base to stage an invasion of the northern East and West coasts of the USA. The move enrages FDR who proceeds to declare war on Canada. The USA is now de facto an Axis member. What side do you expect will win? The Allies-China+Japan+USSR or the Axis+China-Japan+USA? I tend to think the Axis-Japan+USA would win and be followed by a cold war between the USA and Axis. China would, however, lose badly and actually be divided between Britain, Japan, and the USSR during the course of the war. Post-war China would feature at least two Chinas.
I see a lot about alternate courses of event but nothing about the consequences of alternate geographies. How would have things been different if Europe still looked like this?
>>26651 >How would have things been different if Europe still looked like this? It would be too cold for Britain to have guano mines and Europe would be doomed to a similar fate to that of Siberia as a mostly inhospitable land with very few natives. Also the Romans wouldn't have probably bothered with the European desert that would exist in Germany. I'm more curious about what life would be like if the Mediterranean hadn't flooded.
>>26660 >I'm more curious about what life would be like if the Mediterranean hadn't flooded. Not much in the Mediterranean itself since it would be a gigantic salt desert valley. I wonder if the Mediterranean islands/mountains would still be habitable?
https://www.patrioticalternative.org.uk/end_of_an_empire_of_the_skies_the_r101_airship_disaster >What if Airships had used helium instead of hydrogen and become popular? What if, in an effort to save Monarchy in Europe, Wilhelm II when abdicating, gave the titles of German Emperor and King of Prussia to George V after WW1? What would the Personal Union of the British Empire and German Empire have meant for the world? I for-see a better timeline, or perhaps a WW2 where Britain-Germany + Japan are up against the world.
>>26126 IMPOSSIBRU. That could never happen in the US.
>>26123 I find it implausible on several points. The US trade embargo against Japan was rooted less in fear of an Asian competitor--American attitudes at the time meant the Japanese weren't taken seriously as any kind of military or economic rivals before 1941--and more in moral revulsion at Japanese actions in China, played up by an administration that really, really wanted a long, bloody, expensive foreign war to end the Depression by getting rid of a few hundred thousand working-class White men who were surplus to requirements. The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor did not take place in a vacuum. The plan was made and the orders given in the context of a decade of demonization in the American news and entertainment media and denunications, calculated provocations, and ultimatums issued by the Roosevelt Administration. Operation Barbarossa only increased the urgency of this, as Roosevelt and his cabinet, at the urging of most of the intellectual class in the US--who also just happened to be of the same (((ethnic group))) who owned Hollywood, almost all the newspapers and radio stations, and the financial system--were only too eager to pour out tax money and White men's lives like water to prop up Josef Stalin and Scientific Marxism-Leninism. Henry Ford himself was chomping at the bit already in 1929, not just to sell trucks to the Soviet regime, but also build factories for them, and he had salesmen on the way the very instant the US government diplomatically recognized the Soviet regime and legalized trade. Also, the Soviet Union very nearly collapsed in 1941 and German troops' rate of advance was limited only by the availability of fuel and Russia's extremely sparse and primitive road network. Almost all of the trucks, gasoline, diesel fuel, and ammunition Stalin used during the war were provided courtesy of the American taxpayer, as was half the food and a quarter of the fighter aircraft and tanks, and the Germans still almost won.
>>28063 Even better, what Britain and Germany merged before WW1 via a Royal Personal Union and formed a United Empire.
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From Kaiserreich
>>28587 Strelok, Trump was a well known political tourist. If you actually wanted to make that point, you should have used Reagan. Aside, Henry Ford was someone who built half of his entire reputation on the platforms and claimed tenants of one party. Nobody would have believed his claimed political rebirth without such a drastic change in his personality and beliefs that it's pointless to discuss what he would have done.
>>20070 >few civilized men's wars were wars of eradication This depends on how you define civilization. Rome carried out a few wars of eradication, Carthage being a good example because that's where the phrase "salting the earth" comes from. **There were also the Etruscans (Assimilated) Most Assyrian wars were wars of eradication (or genocidal in nature.) They may not have salted the earth, but they certainly wiped out the civilizations they fought. Another more recent example are the Indian wars combined with the colonization of the continent witnessed massive geographical changes that essentially made the Native way of life impossible after only a few generations (The near eradication of the American Buffalo, deforestation that wasn't repaired until the early 20th century.) Again, may not have made the states unlivable for the colonists, but it made the previous inhabitants way of life impossible.
>>29538 I literally stated that he survived assassination... that should be sufficient for a change of heart.
>>29728 Not who you're replying to, but the Romans didn't "salt the Earth" in Carthage, that's a meme from one fictionalized account of the third war. In fact the province of Africa was the Roman breadbasket for centuries afterward. The peculiar way the Romans employed colonies resulted in long-term assimilation that removed the need for eradication. Etruscans are not good examples either, the left hook to the Etruscan people and culture was dealt by the Cassian-style treaties of "alliance" which were enforced upon individual cities, which eventually made annexation (and thus citizenship) preferable to the second-class status which came with being "allies". Better examples would've been the treatment of the Gauls, since some of the most resistant tribes were slaughtered and scattered to prevent any revival of their identity.
>>29771 Strelok, the point was that such a change of heart would result in >such a drastic change in his personality and beliefs that it's pointless to discuss what he would have done. For all points and purposes, you may as well replace your Ford with Jack M. Donkey because it's nor Henry Ford you're actually wanting. Also, in reality, surviving assassination attempts tends to cause people to double down on their core convictions. So, it's more likely Ford would have swung harder to the social right than move any bit left.
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>>28590 I recall watching a documentary a few months ago on the civil war in china that was going on before WW2. Appearently, the who had been listening to Japanese radio transmissions. appearently, they had discovered plans for the attack on pearl harbor months before it even happened. However, the US government did not believe because they were Chinese and that the Chinese had something to gain from the USA attacking the Japanese. Which, granted, are valid points but you'd think they would have beefed up security on the west coast and in the various pacific bases.
>>29886 It seems to me that the US administration was already doing everything it could to entice Japan to attack. The war machine was already revving up, but to prepare an organized defense as if expecting an invasion may have deterred an attack, which would've defeated the point.
>>29886 The US had outposts in the Pacific that spotted the fleet that attacked Pearl Harbor like a week in advance and the people at the top told them to ignore it. The US government wanted Japan to attack so they could enter the war without massive resistance from the citizenry. Remember the people still had the pointless deaths that they incurred in WW1 on their minds at the time and most Americans had no interest in fighting another war in Europe that didn't benefit them at all.
>>29790 In the modern era, innovations like cobalt bombs allow us to level the city and salt the earth in a single step. I wonder how long it will be before that genie comes out of the bottle at scale.
>>30063 Pearl Harbor had radar. American technicians at the radar station at Hickam Field, and the Navy radar operators on the battleships that had been fitted with it, all watched the Japanese for almost an hour as they were on the way in. The urgent calls to generals and admirals got a response of "that's silly, it must be an equipment problem. Fix it or ignore it, and let me go back to sleep. It's Sunday morning for fuck's sake. I don't want to hear another word about it." Urgent calls to Washington got even less in the way of response, because Senators and Presidents did not take calls on Sunday afternoons. You'd think someone would have wanted to know.
>>29886 There were declassified documents revealing the US government was fully aware the Japanese were about to attack Pearl Harbor and let them do it. In preparation they moved all the newer ships including an aircraft carrier out into the ocean where they wouldn't be targeted leaving only older ships nearing the end of their lifespan to be destroyed for propaganda purposes. The only thing the US government wasn't sure on was the exact time of the attack. FDR was a massive socialist piece of shit.
>>29790 I feel like I knew that already and just forgot it, thanks for correcting me.
>>30240 Happy to help
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What do you guys think of these maps?
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What isthe worst alt-history media you've seen?
>>32233 There was a HoI4 mod that was basically "what if Germany lost WWI and a fascist government was elected afterwards" that it's basically just a change from Swastikas to some larpagan symbol and more shit with Italy and Austria. As far as noj gaming goes, Turtledove's WWII that happens a year earlier and turns into WWI part 2 and an out of left field Allies betrayal. Most shitpost one is Wafflereich or what if Belgium won WWI.
>>32233 Hard to say for sure. I've seen plenty of retardation from alternatehistory.com, but I think overall Turtledove's newer works takes the cake. >>32306 Führerreich? And they use a Valknut as their symbol, idiot.
>>32306 I think the hoi4 mod you are talking about if fuhrerreich.
>>30944 >>30945 >What do you guys think of these maps? Pretty nice-looking quality Strelok. Are these your OC?
>>32336 Nah, maps from mods I like or are intrested in
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>>32233 Some 2ACW timeline where FDR gets assassinated shortly after winning the 1932 election leaving John Nance Garner in charge who fucks up it all up turning the US into a dysfunctional third world shithole with an economy smaller than Spain and extremist organizations popping up left and right culminating in the outbreak of civil war in 1937. It starts out quite good with various Leftard organisations arguing about what real socialism is while they battle strikebreakers, Huey Long kansei dorifting the KKK, various libertarian organizations and even some black nationalists into organized armies, MacArthur being MacArthur and the Japanese struggling with debt but because the Author is a literal Jew it falls apart when the KKK start to genocide innocent negroes and communists so hard everyone but Hitler and Hirohito cease diplomatic recognition of the southern states, then Huey Long temporarily cedes Hawaii to Nippon and even lets them invade the Pacific States which turns everyone against the ebul southerners and in the end the US is reinstated by a commie-democrat-nigger triumvirate with Atlanta getting thoroughly blacked and Hitler getting nuked to death by the US-British alliance in 1947 because he somehow wasn't able to kill the Soviet Union for 6 years despite capturing the Caucasus so eastern Europe gets liberated by heroic socialists who do nothing bad. The timeline ends with gay marriage being legalized in the early 1950s and the emergence of nonbinary trans acceptance groups in US universities.
>>32339 I remember that one. alternatehistory.com is full of retarded timelines like that.
>>32344 It's no wonder with their retarded mods banning anyone suspected of wrongthink, you practically have to fellate jews or genocide some white minority if you want to finish a TL over there. I'm still mad at (((CalBear))) for banning CardCarrier for insinuating that it wouldn't make much difference if the Germans were to establish concentration camps for genociding Jews in an Egypt full of thirsty starving armed Arabs angry at the British for destroying their biggest port just so the evil N*zis couldn't have it, on AH.com that apparently counts as Holohoax denial or something.
>>32344 Well, I should've knowned it was alternatehistory.com. That's where TWR got popularized or even started. >>32352 >That spoiler >Getting mad at imaginary jewish deaths in a fiction. LOL. You know what, I would love to make an alt-history board.
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Would the discovery of CRISPR/Cas in a victorious greater Germany of the early 1980s be enough to cause a major schism in German society and politics? Particularly in regards to animal experimentation, the laboratory experiments carried out by technocratic factions of the NSDAP to further strengthen the German people at any cost so they might survive global thermonuclear war colonize space ought to offend the more conservative(?) naturalist-Darwinist wings.
>>32355 >I would love to make an alt-history board. That would be great. Hell, I've been trying to get a /his/ board made on sleepychan, but I'm open to any site that's willing to host it.
Could the Breitspurbahn have made sense if a victorious postwar Germany decided to let everyone in the east keep their respective normal rail gauges with Breitspur serving as the sole gauge directly linking east and west for hegemonial purposes?
>>32922 No, see: >>13324 Slightly moving the tracks so that standard gauge rolling stock can use it is significantly simpler and cheaper.
Life on mars exist, there is water it is green and has oxygen on the planet with a civilization just as smart as our own. What happens during the space race? How would the Martians react? Any future conflicts between earth and Mars?
>>32994 Well, they wont like it ofc! In fact there was already a documentary about this: Mars Attacks! Turns out the invasion has already happened.
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What sort of peace deal with the US could Imperial Japan realistically hope for in a TL where the US Island hopping+strategic bombing campaigns, Battle of Okinawa and nukings still happen but the European Axis kills the USSR+conquers the mediterranean then builds a navy strong enough to strangulate/sea lion the UK into surrender and reach some degree of parity with the USN Atlantic surface fleet? Could a separate peace deal between the US and Japan/peace deal or ceasefire with the Axis as a whole lead to major civil unrest in the US itself, particularly if Truman cucks out following a Midway-level Axis naval victory after the invasion of Japan has already begun? I'm wondering if the US would have any interest in directly occupying Taiwan, Sachalin and perhaps Chukotka+Kamchatka.
>>32994 I guess that depends. Is this Mars the same as our Mars size and gravity wise or is it a A World of Difference kind of situation where "Mars" is Earth sized? Because a live Mars would be much easier to get rockets off of than Earth but much harder to put satellites in orbit due to the fact that Mars doesn't hold its atmosphere as tightly. Also Mars has an asteroidal moon that's in sub synchronous orbit and that would disrupt satellites as well.
>>32994 >>33210 If I recall correctly its Mars' smaller size that caused the core to cool faster dooming the planet to losing its magnetosphere. Scientifically, Mars would have to have very deep, very large craters in order to maintain an atmosphere. Cody does the math behind it but the probability of that happening naturally is pretty low. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnRzsQOZSfQ
>>33007 I had been going to write up a brief on why your scenario couldn't happen, but I'll spare you the wall of text and just get to the point. Germany and Italy combined didn't have enough Shipbuilders to out pace the US's naval rearmament buildup, let alone the materials with which to build the ships required. By V-J Day, the US Navy's grand fleet held over 620 major surface combatants, well over half of them being new construction; had the construction draw down not happened, by 1950 they would have possessed at minimum another 200 more and be laying down even more advanced ships as fast as they could come up with designs. By mid-1943, the US Navy was already drawing down construction because they had already crushed the Imperial Japanese Navy so hard that it was just a matter of time before their defeat; the US Navy could have begun a soft pivot to the Atlantic around then, sending a majority of new construction ships to the Atlantic instead of the Pacific, and not lost any real effectiveness in the Pacific theater. This, incidentally, is also ignoring the fact that the Axis (excluding Japan) didn't even have enough manpower nor hulls to counter the UK alone on the seas. As far as naval operations go, Sea Lion was pretty much the picture of an impossibility - even if Germany had actually possessed the warships they envisioned they would need at the time they believed they would need them. Never mind the fact they still didn't have the shipbuilders nor slipways to get them even that far. ...And before anyone says it, no, stepping up u-boat operations earlier would not have helped. The U-boat was nowhere near as effective in starving the UK of sea-going trade as many love to insist, in fact in the grand scheme it made hardly any real impact. It hurt the UK's bottom line, sure, but in terms of actual goods and materials enough made it through that it wasn't even a quarter the way to a decisive blow. If the Kriegsmarine had stepped up U-boat operations sooner, all that would end up happening is the UK would more quickly develop the counters they already historically would.
>>33214 Hellas is near to that point right now. If Mars had a little more atmospheric pressure or if Hellas was a little deeper then it would basically have a high altitude antarctic/Himalayan type climate.
>>33273 Putting aside all the climate-related retardation: >despite the massive die-offs and technological near-collapse that this scenario should entail, Canada and Russia need to import electricity >somehow the global economy is not only intact, but can afford to cover a significant portion of the planet in solar farms and geothermal plants (which we could hardly manage even today) >geothermal plants in zones marked as "uninhabitable due to frequent floods and extreme weather" >massive solar farms and geothermal plants thousands of miles away from the nearest habitable zone >DC power transmission from Ethiopia to Russia >power transmission across almost a thousand miles of ocean Everything in this image is retarded.
>>33285 >Putting aside all the climate-related retardation Yeah even granting the 4 degree scenario, their model is horribly oversimplified. >>33273 >>33285 What if there are abandoned cities under the ice IRL from the previous civilization?
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>>33305 >dat spoiler If we want to go by the leaked geopositioning from some politicians and the names of nearby islands, they probably were discovered already and stripped of anything important decades ago. If they announce a discovery it will probably be a completely invented thing with no relation to the real thing.
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>>33215 I know the basic scenario of the Axis reaching naval parity with the US in the Atlantic is retarded outside of HoI, but my question pertained more to a Decisive Darkness'd Imperial Japan """winning""" against all odds. I'm curious as to what sort of policy Imperial Japan could pursue post-nuclear-WW2 with all the big guys who were executed for war crimes OTL still being around and what kind of gains the US would be pushing for in the peace conference.
>>33273 This is the most retarded thing I've ever seen. What happened to the jungles? Why there wouldn't be jungles, earth was multiple times way more hotter then this and didn't end like this. And it's impossible atleast by us to return to those periods.
>>33806 Of course over long enough time, if Antarctica were ice free, there would be less water as the crust rebounds. On a side note, I wonder what the weather patterns of a temperate polar region would be like? And how would animal and plant life adapt to the midnight sun and then polar night?
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If France backstabbed the British by way of a fascist coup during Fall Gelb then teamed up with the Germans and Italians after it became clear the eternal Anglo wouldn't let them give humanitarian military assistance to the beleaguered remnants of the Spanish nationalists in Galicia would it be enough perform a Sea Lion? Image unrelated.
>>35297 That's pretty much what happened IRL. All you've done is move up the dates by a week or two.
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>>35308 ITL the Germans never reach French territory due to the coup happening early on in the campaign, there's no surrender, no german occupation and the French navy stays loyal instead of hiding in Algeria only to get bombed by the RAF, also the SCW ended in 1939 OTL while it's still ongoing by 1940 ITL. It all starts with the French providing military assistance like Germany and Italy did to the Republicans with international brigades never getting shut down, naturally French gear finds its way to church-burning communists who proceed to create multiple waves of refugees fleeing to France as the Nationalists lose territory. This creates organized anti-socialist fascist sentiments among the French populace and government, making France somewhat more politically paralyzed than it was OTL though the French air force gets some degree of combat experience from fighting the Germans and Italians in Spain. France withdraws its volunteers in early 1939 due to the Republicans' overwhelming advantage over the Nationalists who've been pushed to Astorias and Galicia, but just as the French request the Republicans return some of the heavier weapons they've been given CNT-FAI declares war on the Republican government, needlessly prolonging the war and further lowering the opinion of socialist movements among rural Frenchmen. French nationalists and fascists begin plans to usurp the centre-left government by moving left-leaning army units to German and Belgian borders for the expected confrontation there so they'll be too busy fighting the Boche to interfere with the military coup in Paris. This works and the fourth French Republic is proclaimed mere days after the Germans begin to advance into Belgium, the entire BEF is interned with Churchill seething given the probability that the French might solve the Spanish problem by force threatening Gibraltar. Would FDR still back the British in this case or would he consider enacting War Plan Red?
What would have happened if the Pacific War goes on longer, and the soviets manage to capture the whole of the Korean peninsula before Japan capitulates? I remember someone once saying that a unified Korea would be a big deal, but what if it was never split to begin with?
>>35470 Perhaps the lack of an rival government on his land frontier makes the develpoment of the Kim's cult less effective due to less paranoia. This could lead, if the Soviets fall basically same as OTL, to 2 possible outcomes: -Gommies policy is as shitty as altas, which plus less actual worshipping of the leader leads to the Kims being either sidelined or outright purged by the army, which probably after adopts a dengist economic model to turn the economic un. That could make Korea a more economically developed country with an autoritharian government, although less distopian that OTL. -Perhaps, due to overreliance in Soviet gibs, the government collapses like in Eastern Europe by revolution. Im not sure of this outcome with the chinks near though.
>>35477 Would a unified Gommie/Juche-light Korea necessitate a larger JMSDF? With no land border to any enemy states there's no reason for Koreans not to build a navy that's somewhat less of a meme than the one OTL and there'd be slightly fewer naval bases for the US to fuck with the Chinese in the Yellow Sea.
After playing some Total War Shogun 2, I got the idea of a Sengoku-Jidai sitauation in England. The premise is that Harold Godwinson wins the battle of Hastings, and maintains Anglo-Saxon rule over England. However, later instability caused by Godwinson running roughshod over his vassals leads to a civil war between him and Edgar Aetheling (1072-1074), which is barely won by Edgar. The cost for this victory is the stronger presence of the Witangemot and the up-and-coming thegn and huscarls. These warriors, the knights of England who serve their eorls, gradually gain strength until the first fyrdseorl takes power from the practically powerless grandson of Edgar in 1142. The fyrdseorl, like the Japanese Shogun, is the defacto ruler of England, ruling dynastically or electively as needed. After several dynasties of fyrdseorls come and go, England devolves into a state of civil war, the Warringrikes Tide, where the eorls and thegns of England fight amongst each other while the royalty in London keep to themselves. Many of these eorls are ambitious in becoming the next fyrdseorl, but which among them have the ability to achieve such a task? Criticism and comments welcome, /k/
What if Hitler had applied to a prestigious art school in the USA and was accepted?
>>37710 Isn't there a bad DLC for Medieval TW that is kinda this?
>>37795 Yeah, there's Thrones of Britannia which takes place during the era after Alfred the Great, but what you're thinking of is the Brittania campaign from Medieval II: Kingdoms. That one was set in 1258.
>>37710 This is actually intresting, this would mostlikely make the world quite diffrent. And even english too. Since england isn't in the best of shape this would mean that some of the colonial powers more powerful or even new colonial powers then otl. >>37794 We could probably get hitler working in disney. And probably some weird ass shit. But who knows who will start ww2
How would the world look if Kissinger had been thrown out and America never signed the One China policy?
>>17124 does anyone feel like playing vicky 2 or hoi 4? https://t.me/politics_news_debates hit me up bros
What would be the lingua franca of Europe if the French allied with Hitler and Mussolini against the UK and won the second world war? OTL we have Anglospeak because the burger Empire forced everyone to adopt Anglo as the dominant common language through Jew-Jitsu, but in a multipolar fascist Europe adopting a natural language ostensibly tied to a single existing nation(ality) wouldn't work outside of perhaps German client states in the former Soviet Union, a common language would also be sorely needed in the Axis' African colonies. Would Latin fit this purpose as the bridge language used in inter-European relations, with Esperanto used in Africa in case the negroes can't be enlightened according to plan? If darkies proved themselves capable of learning Latin, what unholy pidgin/creole abomination would its use bring forth with time?
>>41522 >What would be the lingua franca of Europe The war was for resources and later banking because Germany was offloading their debt onto America/Great Britain. Why would anyone be speaking a different language today? If the French had allied with the Germans during WWI we'd be speaking German-English dual fluency in America, but I don't think WWII had a significant impact on European languages that would have changed much by a different party winning unless that language happens to be Russian/Ukrainian/Polish. Maybe Africa would be speaking even more French I guess?
>>41528 Europeans wouldn't be speaking different informal languages but if the Axis doesn't collapse in on itself post-WW2 they'd have to use some bridge language for inter-European business relations unless they expect their citizenry to either turtle up at home and seldomly leave their countries which wouldn't happen on the grounds of mass motorization alone or become proficient in 4+ languages/hire translators for everything. It's also an absolute necessity for cold war NATO-style multinational military cooperation, having a standard fallback language for functional communication between units of different nationalities/ethnicities is very useful as Austria-Hungary found out the hard way during the Great War.
>>41522 >if the French allied with Hitler and Mussolini against the UK and won the second world war? wew it would likely be some LARP latin-derrived language like esperanto
Also the reason I suggested Latin is due to its long use as a formal language by the Church and to a lesser degree scientific institutions, so the Axis wouldn't start from scratch should they decide to adopt it.
>>39004 Two possibilities. First, the USSR leaves the UN and condemns it, forming an opposing organization in parallel. Unrestrained by the UN, bipolarity increases. Second, America draws to détente with the USSR to isolate China. >>41522 France, Italy, and Spain would probably split off in a Latin block while Germany keeps its Central/Eastern European colonies and the British Isles. The former would speak Latin in a push for better integration while the latter would speak German for the same reason, though with the intention of annexation. In what's left of the Allies, basically just South Africa, Canada, and America, it would be English, though there'd be civil strife in South Africa (Boers) and Canada (Quebecois). The language and future of the Middle East would be pretty muddled. The Latins would push for colonialism while the Germans would support pan-Arabism. The Japanese would support whoever they think would win but would be a stone throw away in India. Esperanto is completely off the table as it was seen as a Jewish invention.
>Frogs turn fascist and join up with the Italians and G*rms in 1940 >instead of Operation Barbarossa Italy, France and Germany do Sealion in summer of 41 >it succeeds due to declining RAF pilot reserves amid tactical mistakes by the Royal Navy owing to the crippling loss of military and civilian MI6 intelligence networks in mainland Europe following France's fasicst coup >following Scotland's secession from the United Kingdom coupled with Ireland, Spain and Yugoslavia joining the Axis along with the Royal Family's evacuation to Canada FDR sanctions all trade with Europe and threatens repercussions on any South American nation who doesn't fall in line, sending the USN to "shield" Venezuelan and Brazilian ports from fascist Q-ships and spies >South Africa tries their best to lead the remnant colonies of the British Empire against the advancing Axis forces but their only saving grace are central Africa's jungle logistics >former British colonies in the Levant rebel against their Anglo masters and join the Axis as client states >other middle eastern countries and some former colonies stay neutral for the time being >FDR extends the sanctions regime to Japan >Japan does Pearl Harbor, bringing the US officially into the war >early Pacific war happens similarly to OTL including a Midway analog boosting US morale >US declares war on neutral Portugal in order to capture Cape Verde, Portugal joins the Axis in response >a US invasion of Dakar happens the same day as Stalin's declaration of war on the Krauts >Allied gains are made but the Germans manage to stabilize their fronts quickly thanks to help from Persia, Baku's oilfields are destroyed by air raids >the French are more fucked and lose much of West Africa but manage to hold on in Benin >the Red Army is systematically eliminated by the Wehrmacht over the course of the year, Perso-Iraqi-German-Palestinian forces capture Baku in early 1943 and Moscow falls in summer amidst starvation and chaos due to long-range Axis bombing raids of critical lend-lease supply infrastructure >Stalin flees to Kyubshev only to be fatally poisoned by an unknown party causing the prompt collapse of the USSR into multiple warring factions while the Axis sit around the A-A line at the limit of their logistical capacity, attempts to negotiate a peace deal are prevented by the presence of multiple factions claiming to be the real Soviet Union along with diplomatic envoys being killed by one faction in order to blame another to get the Germans to bomb the accused >the US until this point has been successfully island hopping in the Pacific and pushed the French to Nigeria while keeping the southern African front steady >but the loss of the USSR is deemed too devastating for morale so the centrally-controlled US Media prints propaganda about the Soviets heroically resisting fascism against all odds when in reality ex-Soviet Russian warlords are ramming T-34s with no ammo into each other in order to shatter the brittle steel of their enemies >against US fears the appearance of Germans in force on the African fronts has a smaller impact than anticipated due to the average eastern front German's lack of experience in Jungle and Desert warfare along with poorly coordinated logistics >it does result in an ever increasing attrition in the air though, which begins to have an effect on the Pacific campaign >the slow but steady growth of the Axis' green water naval presence further leads to conflicts in the USN as to the allocation of ships to each theatre, particularly light aircraft carriers as they are seen the best option to counter Axis naval bombers >declining Japanese aerial strength combined with the Axis' restrained use of Capital ships in favor of submarines and light cruisers leads the USN to allocate more CVEs and light cruisers to the Atlantic while the Pacific receives the bulk of Capitals to eliminate the IJN >FDR dies in October 1944 and is succeeded by Truman >Nationalist China surrenders to Japan in December 1944 following a failed assassination attempt on Chiang Kai-Shek by the US, this does not help the Japanese resource-wise since their merchant navy is mostly sunk but is a major political blow against the Allies >Hiroshima and Kokura are nuked in August 1945, but the Japanese do not surrender >Okinawa is nuked and captured by the US a month later but the Japs still refuse to surrender >at least intel reports say the sabotage acts at Naples were a success and that the Italians won't get new CVs for at least another year >US Africa command wants to push the Axis out of Nigeria entirely but the USN says they need more destroyers to patrol the Indian Ocean for unsolicited Axis cargo subs sending humanitarian aid to Japan and Japanese-puppeteered China >the USN gets its way on this as Operation Downfall will need gorillions of ships anyway, but a renewed offensive into Nigeria is prepared anyway owing to a decrease in Axis air and submarine raids >the offensive kicks off on february 17, taking the Axis by surprise with Allied forces overrunning defensive lines >a day prior the USN spots what appears to be a decently-sized Kriegsmarine fleet consisting of a Battleship, several heavy cruisers, screens and a CVL heading towards an Allied convoy transporting cargo from Canada to Iceland >a CVBG consisting of USS Essex and USS Wasp escorted by USS Iowa alongside a regular screen of DDs and CAs/CLs is sent to intercept and eliminate it >but as the Axis flotilla gets within range of US carrier aircraft 4 additional aircraft carriers of French and Italian origin emerge out of a dense fogbank that had been obscuring part of the northern central Atlantic from US reconnaissance aircraft >by the time they're spotted it's too late for the USN CVBG to retreat, worse they sent too many fighters to escort the bombers to minimize losses against the german CVL of the bait flotilla >USN fighter pilots do their best to defend their carriers but they're at a massive numerical disadvantage and are all shot down >every capital ship of the CVBG is lost to Baguetti aircraft save for Iowa who somehow manages to remain afloat after tanking 8 torpedo hits >she gets towed to Canada only to find out that a german submarine launched a navalized V1 containing Sarin right at Manhattan in the middle of the night, causing a panic with over a hundred casualties >then as the USN scrambles to move every fucken CVN they have on standby to the Atlantic and US propagandists try to figure out how to best explain to the goyim that ideologically inferior national socialist filth managed to penetrate the impenetrable US air defence screen to launch chemical weapons which they should be too stupid to produce at the unsuspecting populace with no air raid sirens going up because of bureaucratical errors in radar maintenance scheduling >this is followed by a large high altitude bombing raid on NY by German strategic bombers, the damage is negligible and most are shot down by the USAF but the citizens start asking questions >3 days after the Axis naval victory in the North Atlantic several large Axis fleets containing every Capital ship in their inventory are spotted heading for and converging on Bermuda, including several ships thought to be under construction >the USN sends its remaining 5 operational CVs in the Atlantic off to battle aided by a few CVLs, though 2 of the CVs are in a questionable state of preparation due to being pressed into service mid-refit >3 CVs are lost with only one Axis carrier sunk in return, reinforcements from the Pacific are delayed due to the entire timetable for Operation Downfall getting thrown out the window >Bermuda is captured hours later at the cost of 3 additional Axis CVs to land-based aircraft and a few heroic carrier planes launched from suicidal CVEs >the next morning propaganda pamphlets containing photographs of the first successful Axis nuclear test in the Arctic are parachuted over Boston for the lols >US forces capture the entire Nigerian coastline from the French in a stunning victory for democracy and freedom >Truman orders 4 additional nukings of Japan, then sues for Peace What would the European Axis and the US demand from each other, and what would happen to Japan? Would there be any "decolonization" of Africa in the ensuing cold war, and would the continent see a degree of industrialization/civilization it didn't OTL due to the need to supply large armies at the colonial border between France and the US? How would FDR and Truman be described in US history books 40-50 years down the line?
>>42513 Not taking into account all of the problems with this scenario, including the failed mentions of other Balkan states, French Indochina, and the Raj: >Axis-US Peace? Assuming that the war doesn't escalate into nuclear attacks against the United States, particularly the Mid-Atlantic, Truman would demand access through the Suez and Gibraltar, and neutrality in the Raj, French, Portugese, Belgian, and Spanish Africa, and the recognition and aid of a friendly Soviet successor state. The Axis would demand recognition of territorial gains in Europe, Scotland, Ireland's control over Ulster, the reorganized English state, the established governments in the Middle East, and of both Japan's gains in China and its state led by Puyi, and neutrality in Iran and Scandinavia, and immediate peace at current territorial gains and losses with Japan, and lifting of all embargos, and free and unrestricted trade through the Panama Canal and with South America, and the recognition of any future state which liberates itself from Soviet successors (i.e. the various Central Asian states, Outer Manchuria), and a plebiscite in Commonwealth members and the African holdings formerly held by Axis countries over neutral independence. I highly doubt that this would be accepted, considering Truman's zeal and foolishness, but these would be demands in my cursory opinion. The plebiscites are probably the most unrealistic. >Fate of Japan? They'd parade themselves as having won the greater victory, having completed conquest of China at the loss of Pacific holdings. However, eight to ten nuclear attacks would be cause for public outrage unless they can take perception away from that. Germany and France would help rebuild the nation while a Northern campaign for the Siberian coastline under the justifications of peacekeeping and economic security would be waged, though mostly by foreign troops as Japanese troops would be more focused on quelling rioting and reconstruction efforts at home. Whether the outcome is the organization of the previously mentioned friendly Soviet successor as a puppet or a Russian Manchuria is anyone's guess. I'd expect an economic miracle to occur as in real life, but the Americans would be replaced by Germans. While the more zealous would throw a hissing fit over their existence, I doubt that the Japanese would ever see the East Indies or Indochina outside of economic influence by the zaibatsu. >Decolonization and Industrialization of Africa? I'm extremely doubtful of the latter and certain of the former. Germany would be far more eager than even the real Soviets to push anti-colonialist messages, especially since the new states wouldn't have to adopt anything similar to Soviet socialism. Industrialization would only work in sparse cases, but Truman's popularity would be in the dumps as peacehawks are vindicated. I don't see anything similar to the Marshall Plan happening in Africa that isn't in name only. >Legacy of FDR and Truman? FDR would be seen as more of a patriot than he is in real life, a Lincoln-type figure who died too early. Truman would be divisive, if he wasn't voted out or impeached and agreed to peace, in that he agreed to a loss for the free world but kept the US from waging a war that would be unwinnable for allies that never did much of anything for the United States.
>>42796 >Balkans The Greco-Italian war was narrowly avoided due to French pressure on the Italians not to waste resources needed for conquering the British Isles, Greece initially signed a nonaggression pact and joined the Axis upon the UK's fall. Their mountaineers greatly contributed to the Axis victory during the Caucasus campaign. Yugoslavia was pressured into joining the Axis a bit later than OTL, they did not participate in Sealion and only sent a minimum token force to the eastern front. Germans giving ethnic minorities in the former USSR "independence" during and after the war has led to a mild to moderate increase in separatist views among parts of the population. Romania lost Transylvania to Hungary in the Second Vienna Award, but in return captured and annexed Odessa from the Soviets. Bulgaria is Bulgaria, and Albania is an Italian protectorate. >Raj Didn't mention it because I'm still not entirely sure how prone it'd be to collapse without the UK. >Far east Would the US really just let the Germans/French/Italians rebuild its economically and physically ruined main adversary in Asia? The USN ITL holds total sway over East Asian waters in 1946, New Caledonia might be returned and given some leverage but Japan itself is certain to see trade restrictions and/or the demilitarization of a few islands, if I were the US I'd force them into neutrality at minimum. Also I forgot to mention this but the post-Soviet Russian civil war is still ongoing at the world war's end and has bled into China with the Chinese Communists and a large Soviet-style Russian warlord supporting each other, the CCP receiving "modern" Russian weapons from surviving Soviet-era factories with the intent to crush the supply-constrained Japanese military occupation and their bankrupt puppet administrations toregain the mandate of Heaven, upon which the heroic Russian warlord ally shall receive free Chinese cannon fodder for proving his legitimacy over other warlords by conquering them and crushing the German oppressors past the Urals in an epic battle for the future of Socialism Germans aren't as strong as they seem on paper due to constant guerilla activity, rioting, sabotage, and brutal murders of German colonists in the east that even with the Reichspropagandaministerium trying its best to hide it have ground the planned Lebensraum expansion to a halt on top of an overstretched economy struggling to bankroll the shitshow that is RK Moskowien along with rebuilding all the other newly founded RK-turned-client states. >Northern Campaign If that were to happen then either in the form of foreign-backed warlords duking it out for supremacy, or the US creating an East Russian Republic based in Magadan for anti-fascist humanitarian purposes.
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What if Carter/Reagan had permitted the export of US fighter aircraft to West Taiwan, with the legitimate government of China adopting the F-20 just before the end of the cold war? How would the Tigershark compete in the post-cold war export markets of Europe, South America and the Middle East? Would the damage incurred from simulated F-16 losses to Tigersharks in combat trials conducted by prospective buyers lead Lockheeb into a slightly more aggressive modernization path for the F-16? Would the F-20 being sold to and used by US allies have any effect on the ATF and JAST/JSF programs?
>>42809 >Would the US Let Germans Rebuild? It depends on whether Truman is allowed to stay in office. Letting an American city be gassed would be grossly incompetent to the point of impeachment, and Congress would feel the pressure of a nuclear power on America's doorstep. Since the Succession Act didn't exist, the next president would either be voted for in a snap election (probably Dewey vs Thurmond, though any non-interventionist Democrat would probably try to throw his hat in) or appointed by Congress. The latter is a hellish scenario since whoever is put in charge would either be a puppet of the party or someone the Democrats would tout as tougher but more competent than Truman. However, anyone who is put in charge has to cow to Germany or else they'll be remembered as worse than Truman because they'll have let a United States soil be nuked. The best they could demand might be limited demilitarization of Japan and the allowance of American companies to take part in reconstruction and for a joint oversight committee to be made. However, so many nuclear strikes would likely mean that the Japanese military is already in shambles. The election scenario would naturally allow someone more amicable to be at the table with the Germans, but it would likely be a snap election.
>>43128 Wasn't the AIDS F-CK China, essentially a homemade F-20?
>>33309 >leaked geopositioning from some politicians and the names of nearby islands Ok, not him but I'm interested, can you be more specific/point me in the right direction?
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>>43128 >over9000hours MSPaint shitpost based on some obscure chinese cartoon from the 80s I made before even cuckchan was cucked finally posted by another person a decade later You are my greatest ally krautanon, and not only because of paying my denbts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLlLV2ExI9o
>>44011 I don't really understand why some anons get really emotional over someone else posting an image he or she edited
>>44218 >being too autistic to understand basic human feelings It's fine, you are in good company here.
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>>44218 > he or she Did you just ASSUME I'm binary?!
If the HMS Lion had been lost with all hands including Sir David Beatty during the initial Battlecruiser engagement at the battle of Jutland, what ramifications would this have had on the battle itself and on British naval strategy in the years to come?
Here is my recent Alt-History posting nya~ >>44237 Nice nya~
>>44418 Thanks but 49% yourself, tripnigger, desu.
>>44448 Nein nya~
>>42513 Okay, let's say soon after WWI the French government screwed up so much that even Versailles robbery does not quite cover this mess. And some pompous idiot said something wildly unpopular on public. And/or overeager local Communists jumped the gun with a failed coup. Then some gentleman known to us as "Le Coq" rides the wave of rhetoric to the effect that the war was stupid at day one, their puppet government sucks more than those newfangled vacuum cleaners, and being puppets of Brits cannot lead to anything wholesome ever. Reminds of England being their traditional enemy and anything unpleasant coming from it, too. Many wince, but hey, it's a pillar of sanity compared to Robespierre and his ilk. The veterans generally abstain or support, so the nationalist movement spins up and their coup succeeds. Then they fight off various local loons (and maybe haphazard interbrigades) and join the European Anti-Communist club. So far, not entirely impossible. But why would they and how could they ally with Germans too close? There are several thorny issues. Let alone actually wage a war against Brits? France is not desperate. Favorable trade conditions and mutual support against Brits and Communists with the rest of the bloc, sure. But not much beyond this. >>44454 Why are you trying to argue with a bot?
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>>44737 My personal headcannon is that the French government decides to be less neutral than historically in the Spanish civil war and sends their own Legion Condor equivalent over there in order to stimulate the war economy and show everyone how relevant France still is as a great power. The Spanish Republic gradually wears down the Spanish State, but as they do so they keep murdering clerics and razing civilian settlements so hard France and Europe by proxy experience somewhat of a refugee crisis which pisses off the Church and much of France's right wing while making the Krauts and Italians slightly less evil in mainstream media for providing humanitarian aid to the Nationalists. The refugees are weaponized into making the French government look like degenerate heretics for aiding the Red Terror by France's growing right wing opposition, Britain eventually drops out after the fucken reds use French-supplied tanks adorned with the heads of their enemies as decoration in the Sevilla holocaust of late 1938, the French government suspends all lend-lease to the Spanish Republic in January 1939 and withdraws its volunteers. Hitler meanwhile does Hitler things, albeit being aware of France's increasingly dysfunctional government he tends to avoid the topic of Elsaß-Lothringen in order to keep the French somewhat divided. The Spanish Nationalists keep losing territory with refugees continuing to flow into Europe through Gnahzee NGOs :^) even as tensions between the Great Powers build up, the French left wing doing their best to cite the rapid German rearmament as reason for their continued existence while the French right wing argues that the Germans would've never been able to do so if not for Left-France's disgusting war conduct fueling pro-fascist sentiment across the continent. While this is going on France decides to recall some guns, artillery pieces and the occasional light tank that were loaned to the Spanish Republic, they agree as the Spanish State is on its last legs in Galicia with the Germans and Italians having largely stopped their regular lend-lease supplies but then the various Soviet-supplied groups largely responsible for the red terror remove the Republican government only to purge each other into open warfare the moment after. A vote of no confidence against Daladier follows, but it's aborted mid-session due to German tourists crossing the Polish border. As WW2 kicks off French authorities try to shut down the French Right wing though media censorship, but they can't do a whole lot other than screech at Hitler due to a significant portion of the French armed forces holding less than favorable views of their civilian leaders and Swiss journalists observing the conditions at refugee camps. During the phony war the French right prepare to coup the government in the hopes of stopping the war before it can escalate into another trench bloodbath, they do this by putting as many leftists as they can on the German border while hunting for unpatriotic traitors within their own ranks, which is where they discover an eerie amount of MI6 glow in the darks snooping as usual. An ebin spy crusade ensues that's just successful enough to catch MI6niggers off guard when the coup happens on the same day Hitler has the Wehrmacht visit Belgium for the first time, the newly proclaimed 5th French Republic immediately signs a ceasefire with the Krauts not wanting to risk a repeat of 1870 and soon after a peace treaty in which Belgium has to surrender Eupen-Malmedy to Germany leaving Hitler content as the stunned British recall the BEF troops stationed in France. Over the summer Hitler, Mussolini, Petain and punished Franco discuss ways to solve the Spanish problem, direct military involvement is considered but ruled out due to the ongoing war between Britain and Germany. Instead they agree to arm and train able-bodied Spanish refugees en masse as "volunteers", ship them off to Spain and have them defeat the anarcho-syndicalist bandits scouring the Iberian wasteland with "volunteer" air support from the Great Powers. In exchange the Balearic islands are split between France and Italy, with a super sekrit clause that permits Spain to reclaim Gibraltar in the event of unforeseen circumstances involving the British. MI6 gets wind of this but somewhere down the line "cede the Balearic islands in exchange for lend-lease and in the event of unforeseen circumstances involving Britain a reclamation of Gibraltar" turns into "cede the Balearic islands in exchange for Gibraltar" due to a faulty cipher and the agent transmitting the message getting captured before he was able to finish according to official sources, though some argue the agent may have done this deliberately at the same time a French merchant ship is sunk by a British submarine in the south Atlantic having been mistaken for a German Q-Ship. Churchill immediately screeches out a declaration of war against everyone who pissed on his empire, the French, Germans and Italians rapidly move into Iberia, Portugal joins the alliance that would later be known as the Axis powers and Gibraltar is lost to anti-semitic forces which leads into >>42513 How retarded is this on a scale from alternatehistory.com to Ace Combat?
Americans want to live in a police state because Americans are terrified that their neighbor might start a pig farm next to their house, but who owns your neighbor's home? Do you really think that freedom doesn't benefit you? Do you think that you are exempt from tyranny? Do you realize that freedom is a two-way street? If you want your neighbor to go to jail for having a flag-pole, don't be surprised when you are arrested for owning a driveway. Can't you solve problems without a law? Can't you talk to those who bother you? Couldn't you just move away? Do Americans realize that the US used to be a free country? Do Americans know that the Soviet Union failed?
>>45516 >All this Simple americans are dumb. Always have been and now are twice since people are more dumber then before
>>45516 This is an old bot, saw it on oneech.an or something nya~ >>47834 Since Lincoln was assassinated the US (((regime))) has been systematically and increasingly anti-White and anti-Intellect, and pro-nigger nyaa~
>>45516 >tf >tp At least I don’t have to ask permission from my village council to repaint my door, yurokek
Let's say the German and Italian attempts to transport European tech to glorious Nippon see a considerably higher rate of success than they did in OTL until Overlord at least. What gaijin tech would see the most practical use within the Nipponese militaries given political constraints IJA-IJN infighting, Zaibatsu jewry, and what gnahzee invention would best serve Nippon's strategic needs from a purely military(-industrial) perspective? The IJA put a cache of german MG151s onto a few dozen Ki-61s when Nippon was getting B-29'd and the tried to get Jet+Rocket propulsion from the Krauts too, going as far even as to make a Me-163 clone and a weeb Me 262 without swept wings from what little could be obtained. If Nips got their hands on a DB-605AM, would the Ki-100 never exist in its radial powered form and would the introduction of MW50 in up-engined Ki-61s assuming they can manage to produce clone engines in sufficient numbers slightly reduce the damage incurred by Nip industry from B-29 raids? Would Mitsubishi try to sabotage Kawasaki for stealing the Raiden's spotlight should MW50'd Hiens prove themselves as effective high-altitude interceptors despite not being explicitly designed as such?
>>49714 O-I heavy tanks seeing the light of day?
>>18346 I think you can make a plausible argument for America's economy collapsing. We made a lot of loans to the British during WW1 even before officially joining, and just them losing and getting saddled with reparations would be bad news all on its own, never mind what would happen if the Empire was exiled to Canada and the socialist revolution in the home island refused to honor the debt. >>19649 Executing John Brown would be a great start.
>>47834 >tf >tp
>>54344 >>tf >>tp Speak english, colonist
>>54355 Quite so.

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