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Russia vs Ukraine Strelok 04/02/2021 (Fri) 15:11:32 No.14576
Things seem to be heating up and I think this deserves its own discussion thread. Or at least I think it will soon. https://archive.is/bpADR https://archive.is/gA8ee How big do you think this will get? Will it spill over into Europe? Will Biden do something retarded that makes things worse?
>>14576 Realistically speaking, Germany and France wouldn't want to do shit for Eastern Eruope, Poland wouldn't lift a finger for Ukraine, and there is no other country left in Europe who could intervene, even if they wanted to. Because of this I think it won't spill out from Ukraine, except maybe if Russians want to take Moldova, then I can see them curbstomping Romania for good measure, but that is quite unlikely. An other alternative is that an American intervention makes them activate some warplan that involves taking the Baltic states, but even that is unlikely. The least likely of all scenarios is that they activate some other warplan that involves rolling through Poland, into Germany, and maybe stopping and Holland. But I don't see the point of that, and I'm sure that both Germany and Russia would try to avoid that.
>>14576 >>14578 It seems retarded. No one has a shit to give for Ukraine, and what would Russia gain in Ukraine proper?
>>14581 Putin seems to be on a mission to revive old school Russian imperialism, and hohols want to reaffirm their identity by showing themselves that they are not just Russians who speak with a funny accent. And it's quite probable the the hohol leadership is strongly influenced by Amerika, who wants to cause trouble to the Russkies.
>>14576 >How big do you think this will get? For now it is just postering, but it all depends if NATO or Biden wants Ukraine to act. He obviously is pushing for another cold war. He'll probably make Ukraine act soon in order to use the proxy war as a pretense to put a shitload of pressure on Germany to stop the Nord Stream 2 project. Then the USA will have Germany immediately agree to the alternative of buying good ol USA LNG.
>>14576 >how big It will probably be limited to minor attacks or skirmishes. Mostly just artillery duels probably, with ukrainians getting their shit slapped if they venture too close to russian border. Or maybe they might be counting on russia saying fuck it and just allowing kiev to bring eastern ukraine back to compliance. Bit far fetched, but it might also be that US has promised Kiev sky and the moon if they stir enough shit up in order to somehow magically prevent Nord-Stream 2 from happening, thus helping to protect the sacred petrodollar. Dumber shit has been done to protect sacred petrodollar and it's not like jews care about lives of goyim one bit, so stirring shit up is thus essentially completely free. Militaries will do exactly as their owners tell them to do, no matter how jewish outcomes it will lead.
>>14582 We should have preserved the concepts of spheres of influence and buffer states in great power politics instead of this everything or nothing outlook from the end of the Cold War.
>>14592 That was the promise, Russia can keep Belarussia and Hoholand in turn they leave alone the rest. Truth to be told, Russians are also happy to fuck around in other countries, but at least they don't want to introduce moslem homosex communism, so in this one case they are the lesser evil.
>>14593 … Wish we could turn back time
>>14596 Is that all one family? II'm guessing they were during the Russian monarchy? wonder why there are no boys? Nice looking bunch tbh. Not a lot of smiles, but maybe that was cultural.
>>14600 Smiling is an American/English thing. It's frowned upon in most cultures to smile for photos and the like.
>>14600 That's the royal families of Europe at a wedding in 1894: >Queen Victoria and family at Coburg on 21 April 1894, assembled for the wedding of Princess Victoria Melita of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1876-1936) and Ernest Louis, Grand Duke of Hesse (1868-1937), both grandchildren of Queen Victoria. The wedding took place on 19 April 1894. The group includes members of the Prussian and Russian royal families. This photograph was acquired by Queen Victoria to be part of her series of albums titled 'Portraits of Royal Children'. She is surrounded by descendants from across Europe, assembled for the wedding of Princess Victoria Melita of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (the daughter of Queen Victoria's son, Alfred) and the Grand Duke of Hesse (the son of Queen Victoria's daughter, Alice). Sitting the with the Queen is her eldest daughter Victoria, now Dowager Empress of Germany, with her eldest son, Kaiser Wilhelm II. The Prince of Wales (later King Edward VII) and Tsar Nicholas II of Russia are also in the group. Nicholas and Princess Alexandra of Hesse, standing next to him, had announced their engagement on 20 April 1894. The photograph represents Queen Victoria's position as the 'grandmother' of Europe, at the moment before family alliances began to collapse and Europe eventually erupted into war in 1914. Queen Victoria wrote in her journal for 21 April 1894, 'the whole of our large family party were photographed by English, as well as German photographers. Many groups were taken, & some of me with Vicky & my 3 sons, & William.' It was where the last Tsar proposed to his German wife, the one who would later be seduced by Rasputin and catalyze military disaster and communist revolution in World War I. No one smiled in early photography because film took an extended amount of time to develop, and it was considered equivalent to posing for a painting.
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>>14600 >Is that all one family? II'm guessing they were during the Russian monarchy? That's Queen Victoria's family at her granddaughter's wedding. Surely you ought to be able to recognize her in the lower middle. Or at the absolute minimum, her grandson the Kaiser and his unmistakable mustache on the left. And the bearded man just behind him is the future Tsar Nicholas II.
>>14606 Smiling is a relatively newer thing in America. Looking at my relatives pictures from the early 1900s, none of them smiled either.
>>14612 >>14614 Thanks Streloks, much appreciated. Please forgive my poor plebian-tier history knowledge. I guess while you guys are here, would you mind commenting on the Bolsheviks & the revolution and the events leading up to it? I've been told that it was led by Jews for Jews. I presume Lenin was important in it, but I can't say I recognize him as Jewish honestly.
>>14614 I do recognize both Queen Victoria and Tsar Nicholas II now that you point it out.
>>14615 Only the rural Chinese knew how to smile for the camera. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portrait_photography >In the 19th century and early 20th century, photographs didn't often depict smiling people in accordance to cultural conventions of Victorian and Edwardian culture. In contrast, the photograph Eating Rice, China reflects differing cultural attitudes of the time, depicting a smiling Chinese man.
>>14616 War profiteer Alexander "Helphand" Parvus convinced German intelligence he could take Russia out of the war with a "socialist" revolution if they allowed Lenin to be smuggled through Germany from Switzerland, where the Bolsheviks had been hiding since the failed Russian Revolution of 1905. Many left-wing "revolutionaries" had become hacks peddling books for clout in intellectual circles so it wasn't a given this nobody no one had seen in Russia for over a decade would actually succeed.
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Supposedly Donbass being hit by Ukraine, yesterday.
>>14626 this is pretty fascinating to see ancient chinese smile
>>14636 So it begins.
>>14638 Is it?
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>>14636 Don Bass sounds like a fish that is in the mafia.
>>14637 Nigga loves the shit out of some rice. >>14653 Don't be such a Donbass.
Ukraine says joint military drills with NATO to begin in a few months https://archive.md/FzgHW >KYIV (Reuters) - Ukraine’s armed forces on Saturday said joint military drills with NATO troops would begin in a few months’ time, a step that could stoke tensions with Moscow which has expressed its opposition to such a move. NATO voiced concern on Thursday over what it said was a big Russian military build-up near eastern Ukraine after Russia warned that a serious escalation in the conflict in Ukraine’s Donbass region could “destroy” Ukraine.The Kremlin on Friday said that any deployment of NATO troops to Ukraine would lead to further tensions near Russia’s borders and force Moscow to take extra measures to ensure its own security. Ukrainian troops have battled Russian-backed separatist forces in the eastern Donbass region in a conflict Kyiv estimates has killed 14,000 people since 2014. The drills will involve more than 1,000 military personnel from at least 5 NATO member states and will be held in a few months, the Ukrainian armed forces said in a statement on Facebook on Saturday. “In particular, defensive actions will be worked out, followed by an offensive in order to restore the state border and territorial integrity of a state that has been subjected to aggression by one of the hostile neighbouring countries,” the statement said. It did not specify exactly when the drills would take place. I think hope western leaders are not retarded enough to think that a multikulti group of a mere 1000 soldiers is even a factor against Russia, and this is just a way showing moral support to the hohols.
I've also found some hohol propaganda: https://invidious.kavin.rocks/watch?v=1cMBPN3rjXU https://invidious.kavin.rocks/watch?v=0AtszHyy8rY It's surprisingly not informative at all, and it's also not very good propaganda to begin with.
>>14658 What the fuck was he thinking? Or was it planned, then why? Is it actually said in it.
>>14659 Probably an accident. Guy on camera asked someone if he was recording, and someone off-cam told him several times to "shoot already!". Maybe it was a joke, but I couldn't quite get all details, because it's a bit muffled. And then his finger slipped up, because afterwards the guy off-cam swore pretty convincingly
>>14661 Did you forget to move your name or something anon? >Maybe it was a joke, but I couldn't quite get all details, because it's a bit muffled. And then his finger slipped up, because afterwards the guy off-cam swore pretty convincingly Were they retarded or what? Also it kinda made me laugh, because of the face at the end, just imagine it in something like "this ain't bong." ir something drug related.
>>14663 Yup, It took me a moment, but then I scrolled to the top, and there it was, piece-a-shit. >Were they retarded He looked like civilian to me. Training instead of uniform pants. I dunno about the Ukrainian army, but in the Russian army this generally won't fly. Plus, this does look like an improvised field barrack, because of it's general roughness. Also, it sounds like they speak fluent russian, not ukrainian, so it's probably a Donbass rebel, who maybe does not give as much of a shit about gun safety as he should. So all in all, a ln idiot without Training and maybe too much liquid potato in the brains.
>>14655 How does the current Hohol army compare to what the Ruskies are fielding to counter them?
>>14666 Most of the Ukrainians on the front are guys who've been out of work due to chink flu, they for the most part just don't want to be there. The recon guys are somewhat better as with the pic's that are usually embedded with them. >>14655 There is some ~500 leafs in country, they've been there since later 2014. Apparently they're teaching the salo eaters tankery, but I don't see how you could learn from a country that hasn't seen tank to tank combat since Korea. They like to come up on the front from time to time.
>>14658 Not the first time i've seen ruskies use loaded automatic weapons to play Russian Roulette. Hell, no wonder it's called like that.
>>14676 Ukrops aren't Russian, (((Strelok))).
>>14677 They certainly wouldn't speak russian then, but still my bad if i confused them
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>>14679 If carpathia ruthanua goes to slovakia then it's ok. Ukraine sucks.
>>14679 My prediction of Ukraine being carved up is seeming to be coming to light. >>14581 Steel Mills, and a whole ton of industry they lost during the break up of the USSR. Ukraine could have been an absolute powerhouse of a country but they let shabbos goys run the show and proceed to make the robbery and rape of Russia look like a stolen candy bar.
>>14683 Making Ukraine its own country was a mistake anyways, so good.
>>14683 It's not that they let them run the show, it's more like the (((politicians))) of that time stretched out their greedy fingers and grabbed everything of value. Same thing in Russia. Could have been far more successful, but they just had to privatize everything, good little prostitutes that they were
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>>14682 Felvidék is magyar clay.
>>14687 Anon, the whole hungary is legit slovak clay, because you've lost ypu asian ancestry a long time ago and you have mire slav dna then magyar.
>>14583 >Steel Mills, and a whole ton of industry they lost during the break up of the USSR. Those are 30 years out of date now gramps, and they won't be much good blown up. I know you think the Soviet Union is still breathing down your neck but that's dementia kicking in.
>>14692 Not the one you answered to, but steel working equipment can't really be outdated, except maybe the really old stuff that was steampowered. A man with two working hands and a working brain can do wonders on those old lathes and mills
>>14693 You might be right if we are talking about steel mills that turn iron ore into bar stock or rolled steel, but you'd need a bona fide miracle to outproduce modern CNC machinery with manually operated machinery. Somehow related, Russians were still relying on Ukrainian industry not so long ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral_Gorshkov-class_frigate >The first two ships of the class have gas turbines from Zorya-Mashproekt in Ukraine. Following the 2014 Crimean crisis, Ukrainian industry refused to supply Russia with military technology. As a result, NPO Saturn has been commissioned to design indigenous engines. Initial forecasts expected these new engines to be available in 2017-18, allowing ships to be commissioned from 2020;[29] however, after intervention by the Russian government, the plan was brought forward.[30] In November 2020 it was announced that United Engine Corporation had initiated delivery of the DGTA M55R diesel-gas power plant which would be installed on frigates of the class beginning with Admiral Isakov.
>>14694 You have a point there, though I heard that CNC machinery ( the programs in particular) is a nightmare to troubleshoot. >Russians relying on Ukrainian tech. Damn, what? I thought it was the other way around. Maybe my people should finally get their asses in gear and lift up the country, instead of importing wokeness and pop-culture from the west. Nothing good coming out of that anyway.
>>14693 When Western engineers visited Soviet industrial plants after the fall of the USSR they found the lack of an array of modern equipment because central planning required uniform implementation nationwide, which makes sense from a governance perspective but not from a financial one. One particular instance of this was Soviet factories lacked any meters to measure power consumption locally because they weren't expected to produce for local profit but to meet preset assigned goals. A significant amount of Eastern Bloc industry was found to be unprofitable after accounting for these peculiarities, so even if they had Soviet steel mills in the 90s there's no guarantee they haven't been sold for scrap or to the Chinese, who became the masters of overproducing cheap shit thirty years since.
>>14697 >though I heard that CNC machinery ( the programs in particular) is a nightmare to troubleshoot. Only if you don't understand basic concepts like having (on average) three axis of rotation and not going six inches deep into the metal for a cut when the bit you're using is only an eight of an inch thick. CNC is more about thinking in terms of how the machine is going to do something than anything. Otherwise it's really easy and the concepts transfer (in reverse) to 3D printing and other machinery. t. backup CNC machinist & 3D printing assistant when the guy who does it normally is out and about and the (different type of) machines I run in my department are low on work.
>>14687 Treaty of Trianon 2.0 can't get here soon enough
>>14703 that's interesting. I should really look into getting myself acquainted with the subject matter. Is there a particular book or internet resource you could recommend for getting into the basics of machining and automatization of machining processes?
>>14705 > Is there a particular book or internet resource you could recommend for getting into the basics of machining and automatization of machining processes? /robowaifu/ has a small dump of US Army Machining training manuals in their CNC thread, Srelok.
>>14582 Putin doesn't want to annex half of Ukraine. The entirety of the east is dilapidated old factories and pensioners- all of the young either go to the west of the country of the EU, there's no economic value and it would be a drain on a country that already has a population bomb coming. I think Putin might give some intermittent support to the DNR, but ultimately he just want to hold Crimea.
>>14709 Punitive expedition?
>>14709 I know, he needs Ukraine as a buffer state. But if that's not possible then he needs Novorussia instead. And if he needs to support Hoborussia with all the might of Russia proper, then he will do so. But realistically speaking, it's a good chance to use up stockpiles of old equipment and to have some blood on at least a few units.
Turkey's Erdogan calls for end to 'worrying' developments in eastern Ukraine, offers support https://archive.md/zXHh8 >ANKARA/KYIV (Reuters) - Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan on Saturday called for the “worrying” developments in eastern Ukraine’s Donbass region to come to an end after meeting his Ukrainian counterpart in Istanbul, adding Turkey was ready to provide any necessary support. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy held more than three hours of talks with Erdogan in Istanbul as part of a previously scheduled visit, amid tensions between Kyiv and Moscow over the conflict in Donbass. Kyiv has raised the alarm over a buildup of Russian forces near the border between Ukraine and Russia, and over a rise in violence along the line of contact separating Ukrainian troops and Russia-backed separatists in Donbass. The Russian military movements have fuelled concerns that Moscow is preparing to send forces into Ukraine. The Kremlin denies its troops are a threat, but says they will remain as long as it sees fit. The United States says Russia has amassed more troops on Ukraine’s eastern border than at any time since 2014, when it annexed Crimea from Ukraine and backed separatists in Donbass. On Friday, Turkey said Washington will send two warships to the Black Sea next week. >Speaking at a news conference alongside Zelenskiy, Erdogan said he hoped the conflict would be resolved peacefully, through dialogue based on diplomatic customs, in line with international laws and Ukraine’s territorial integrity. “We hope for the worrying escalation observed on the field recently to end as soon as possible, the ceasefire to continue and for the conflict to be resolved via dialogue on the basis of the Minsk agreements,” Erdogan said. “We are ready to provide any support necessary for this. ”Major combat in Donbass ended with a truce agreed in the Belarusian capital Minsk in 2015, whose implementation France and Germany have helped to oversee. Sporadic fighting continues despite repeated attempts to implement a ceasefire. >Zelenskiy said the positions of Kyiv and Ankara coincided on threats in the Black Sea and the response to those threats, and added he briefed Erdogan “in detail” on developments in Donbass. “We discussed in detail the issues of security and joint counteraction to challenges in the Black Sea region and it is worth noting that the visions of Kyiv and Ankara coincide both regarding the threats themselves and the ways of responding to these threats,” he said. NATO member Turkey has forged close cooperation with Russia over conflicts in Syria, Libya and Nagorno-Karabakh, as well as in the defence and energy areas. But it has criticised Crimea’s annexation and supported Ukraine’s territorial integrity. It has also sold drones to Kyiv in 2019. Erdogan said on Saturday that Turkey and Ukraine launched a platform with their foreign and defence ministers to discuss defence industry cooperation, but added this was “not in any way a move against third countries”. Ukraine and Russia have traded blame for the increase in violence in the conflict, which Kyiv says has killed 14,000 people since 2014. Russian President Vladimir Putin, in a call with Erdogan on Friday, accused Ukraine of “dangerous provocative actions” in Donbass. Kyiv said on Saturday Ukraine could be provoked by Russian aggravation of the situation in Donbass. Erdogan really does want to LARP as a sultan.
>>14759 I wish someone would just decide that enough is enough and kill that cockroach already. Even his own military hates his guts.
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>>14759 >inb4 super fucking roach satan starts WWIII because he fancies himself Suleiman 2.0
>>14879 >romanized: Süleyman-ı Evvel How incredibly fucking apropos.
>>14576 Vodkafag here, It's all just puppetry like the India Pakistan curryfest.
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Not strictly related, but there is a plan floating around in various political and media circles that could be summed up as pics related.
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Russia rejects Ukraine’s push to revise 2015 peace deal https://archive.is/cua33 Russia’s foreign minister sternly warned Ukrainian officials Wednesday that Moscow would not accept their push to revise a peace deal for eastern Ukraine. >Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s comments followed Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy calling Tuesday for a modification of the 2015 agreement and inviting other nations to help mediate the stalled talks on a political settlement of the conflict in Ukraine’s east. >Fighting between Ukrainian forces and Russia-backed separatists erupted in Ukraine’s eastern industrial heartland, called Donbas, shortly after Moscow’s 2014 annexation of Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula. More than 14,000 people have been killed during the seven-year conflict. >In recent weeks, increasing violations of a shaky cease-fire in eastern Ukraine a Russian troop buildup across the border drew Ukrainian and Western concerns about the potential for large-scale hostilities. Tensions eased last week after Moscow announced a pullback of its forces following massive drills. >The 2015 deal, which was brokered by France and Germany, marked a diplomatic coup for Russia, obliging Ukraine to offer broad autonomy to the separatist regions and amnesty for the rebels. It also stipulated that Ukraine would regain full control of its border with Russia in the rebel-held territories only after the election of local leaders and legislatures, the provisions resented by many Ukrainians as a betrayal of national interests. >Ukraine and the West have accused Russia of backing the separatist rebels in the east with troops and weapons, claims Moscow has denied. The Kremlin has insisted that Russia isn’t a party to what it described as an internal Ukrainian conflict. >Speaking in an interview with a Russian state TV host, Lavrov criticized the West for turning a blind eye to the failure of Ukrainian authorities to meet their obligations under the 2015 document that was signed in the Belarusian capital, Minsk, by then-Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko. >“The West either can’t or doesn’t want to encourage compliance with the Minsk agreement,” he said. >Lavrov categorically rejected the push by Ukrainian officials to reverse the sequence of steps stipulated by the Minsk deal and to make reclaiming control of the border with Russia in the rebel-controlled regions the first step. >“Control of the border is the very last move that comes only after those territories get a special status fixed in the Ukrainian Constitution and hold free elections acknowledged as such by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe,” the Russian minister said. “I believe that we mustn’t let Mr. Zelenskyy and his team get off the hook, even though they are trying hard to wriggle out.” >Zelenskyy has pushed for a meeting with Putin, but the Russian leader responded last week that Ukrainian authorities need to speak to the rebels to settle the conflict in Donbas. He added that if the Ukrainian president wants to discuss the normalization of ties with Russia, he’s welcome to come to Moscow. Also I guess Trump's lawyer's house got a no-knock raid and they stole a bunch of his shit.
>>15307 Ukraine sure is trying everything to make something stick >Yell about obtaining nuclear weapons >Plead to get into NATO >Demand Russia is taken off of SWIFT system >Wants Russia to lose the Nordstream 2 deal
>>15317 I like when slavs are killing each other, but despite that i hope ukrainians succeed in crushing separatists and get back Crimea one day.
>>15324 Can I ask why you support Ukraine? I know that both Russia and Ukraine are kiked in one way or a other so I would like to know why you prefer that side over the other.
>>15325 Probably bought into the based hohols meme, because they supported the Nazis in WW2. Truth is, every country had those collaborators, and simultaneously had those, who hated their guts. Truth is, fascists are just as cancerous as communists, so it's like choosing your poison at this point. Both are symptoms of their time's hardships, enforced by kikery and general shittiness of people. >Tl;dr: Hohols are fascists, fascists good (not really).
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>>15326 >Communism is as bad as fascism. Muh horseshoe theory. Okay then. What would you propose to stop Clown World?
>>15329 Ancapistani child sex slave armies powered by McNukes to stave off the Jews.
>>15329 Nothing. Why stop it? Let it come to it's logical conclusion, and instead concentrate on weathering the storm. There's not a million of us, we are not in the position to change anything, but we are well equipped to network, share information, better ourselves, predict what's to come, and prepare accordingly. We are not going to fight, but survive instead. It's an aspect of this board, isn't it? Survival is the keyword. We are no revolutionary warriors or leaders of great armies. We are simply a bunch of extraordinary people, in that we have assembled on this board. This is what sets us apart from the common folks. We better use our network here, to predict the development of the global financial empire, and map out our strategy accordingly. Your kind always wants to "stop the globohomo", and "restore the natural order". Don't you get it? Natural order is fully capable of restoring itself, humans cannot even dream about influencing the laws of nature. We are a part of it, and we will return to it, that is the power of nature. And even when something comes up regarding fighting the global empire, it gets instantly shot down, and people scream that it's "glowing" and "the feds are behind it". This why accelerationism will never work, because for every willing, capable person on an imageboard, there are a dozen others, that spit on him and call his actions a "false flag", or at the very least, belittle the accomplishment. You may see this as defeatism, but the truth is, that sometimes it's better to avoid conflicts, in order to conserve your own resources, and make better use of them to have a fighting chance when the forces of the world elite finally come for you. Tl;dr: If you want to fight, fight for your own. If you want to die early and without a purpose, seek confrontation with Zion. If you want to assist natural order in it's return, fuck off and let it do it's thing.
>>15331 Ok mr. Niggerpill.
>>15332 Seethe harder, larpfag.
>>15333 >Seethe Ok normalniggerpill
>>15332 Niggerpilling is when you tell people to give up. Anon is telling people to pick and choose your battles and stop acting like there's thousands of us all with the same alignment and resources. In my personal example, I do not have many funs, my funs I do have are incapable of piercing body armor, and I can not afford anything better, so I provide my own skillsets on non-gun /k/ topics to the table and share the same mindset as >>15331
>>15331 >And even when something comes up regarding fighting the global empire, it gets instantly shot down, and people scream that it's "glowing" and "the feds are behind it" You guys apparently haven't figured out yet, that complaint is literally the single best mark of a glownigger post. Why be a pansie about it? Why worry or complain about it like a woman? Surely you wouldn't have some kind of agenda behind that would you, dataminer-kun? Any men here or elsewhere who want to share information or """network""" will do so without you whining like a little girl over it. Also, >we >our >your Sure thing, pal.
>>15335 It reads kinda like it, but with a small spin. Ofcourse everything he says is kinda right. But it's written in a way that resembles niggerpill posts. So whatever.
>>15336 Aight, thanks for spoonfeeding. Though, if there's actually any feds reading this, you should probably stop giving them advice, idiot-senpai
>>15336 I don't quite get the problem then. is it because he replied to >>15329 at all? Should he just have shut up?
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>>15325 I'm latvian. I hate russians, because Latvia experienced 50 years of russian occupation during the Cold War period, during which they attempted to erase our language and culture, they also killed a lot of our people during WW2, killed our "Hitler" Kārlis Ulmanis and committed countless other commie style atrocities. If we weren't in NATO now, they would do to us what they are doing to Ukraine now, as they have already done multiple times throughout history. Fuck russians, it brings me joy watching how they get demographically replaced by muslims from the lands that they conquered.
>>15348 Also would you like to live in ostland friend?
>>15347 what is it with ethnicities hating eachothers guts? I mean, is everyone so stupid, not to see the kikery behind almost every conflict we see? Russians hate the americans because they think they constantly shit on them, and vice versa. eastern europeans hate russians because they supposedly occupied them, despite it being the work of a political clique of kikes, who turned russia and everything east of germany (and east germany) into a red mush, and everyone is so concentrated on these shitty little conflicts, that no one is looking at the kike. Why is no one grabbing the evil by the root? Are we seriously a lot dumber than our early ancestors? Or are we just of weaker will?
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>>15348 >>15349 >Where is your potato? I have two, they're in my fridge. Tonight i'm gonna fry them both and have a feast. >Also would you like to live in ostland friend? Yes, i think i would.
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>>15350 You are pretty much pic related wearing an armband with a swastika on it.
>>15352 projecting much?
>>15350 Latvia, and all the baltics in general, were under Russian boot before the commies took over, so you can't blame just the kikes for that resentment though the latvians had a paper for them as their enforcers, being predominantly at the beginning in things like the cheka
Russian here. Ask me anything, or spit on me if you'd like, I'm used to it. Anti-russian memes welcome, I get a laugh from everything.
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>>15356 >lel, you're a cuck >NOO, you're a kike! that's a big nose man.
>>15350 Ethnic conflict would exist with or without kikes. Kikes exacerbate "local" issues already being experienced. Kikes are the cold sore you get when already dealing with a heavy fever.
>>15350 >>15358 basically, everyone is shit, and everyone shits on eachother. Seems like standard human behaviour. why should we support any of the sides (Ukraine/Russia) though? aren't they equally shitty and useless? well, apart from Russia, they at least have abundant natural resources.
>>15358 What represents fever in your metaphor? Are you saying that jews are just a scapegoat? What could possibly be a bigger humanity's problem than jews?
>>15358 >>15360 I guess, that strelok means the Jews are merely parasitic beings, that exploit already existing conflicts. Doesn't make them any less shitty though
>>15332 What's your plan then faggot? what's your hope?
>>15362 Daily reminder that hope is a concept to drive on the cattle that's given up. Strong men need only the promise of killing, food and booze.
>>15368 I think the biggest joke in those is that a Russian would want to immigrate to America post-1995.
>>15369 Did you forget what was happening in Russia 1990-2000? Are you really a Strelok that overlooks Chechnya? Russia under the oligarchs was worse than the US in its present state.
>>15369 I tried to find something funny, but instead you have this.
>>15371 I misspoke, I meant 2005, when the great lie broke in Russia. Egg on my face.
>>15347 Nice map, for a German the ethnicity that is probably most hated is the polish. Could live in peace as is right now with pretty much everyone except those constantly backstabbing honorary kikes, who throughout history have shown again and again that they are not worthy of life. Closer ties with some of our brother peoples like the nordics and the baltics would also be nice.
>>15347 >Russia >La creatura Europeans can keep thinking they're superior. They're just a playball in the political game, thinking they're of any importance. They don't even have any significant resources worth taking, only redeeming quality of their countries are good climatic conditions. Research? Industry? Give it a couple more years, and everything will be pozzed and worthless. I'm not saying Russia is great, but at least the climate there is shitty enough to force people to be tough.
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>>15380 >Russians >tough Most is just barking and appearance. They are in many ways as coward (cucking out with Putin and the chechenians), hedonistic (massive drug problems) and demographically decadent as the west. What is so great of being a "great power" if all they do with that power is still being a servant of the kikes? Don't tell me you bought Putin's propaganda of their country as a traditionalist paradise?
>>15381 Seems like I did the mistake of wrong phrasing. Russia has more tough people than the west. Europe (Germany at least) has tough people too, but in very few of them relative to their total population. Russians are different, just as Europeans are different, but the problem is, that Europeans have it far easier and have far more cities than Russia. Russian cities are few and far apart. City-dwellers are scum everywhere, not just in Russia, so when you look at Europe, they have more city-dwellers, so they are comparatively more shitty. Honestly, I made a mistake there, by comparing the entirety of the countries. I should have compared regions, as specific regions have few differences. Look at Northern Germany, specifically Schleswig-Holstein: it's cold, rainy, strong wind on 7 out of 10 days, and it's pretty much poor. In this regard it's pretty much German Siberia, only that Siberia is far colder and shittier, but, more space and fewe people. Still, I see many people in North Germany, who share the mindset of Siberians, and often have the same stubbornness and bluntness that they do. It's not the exact same, but very similar.
>>15381 >>15382 Also, i don't watch news, because they make my blood pressure rise to unhealthy levels, and I don't want to pop a blood vessel screaming at the TV everytime I watch the news. Therefore, Propaganda doesn't have the opportunity affect me. Additionally, I have been to Russia more than once, and had the chance to experience different types of people. The Moscow types are the worst type of scum. I remember one time, when I went to visit my grandma, I had to switch planes in Moscow, and my family was a little slow to find the correct way, holding up 2 young guys behind us. One of them said something to the effect of "filthy village folks", and the other one told me to "get in gear, farmer boy". City folks aren't worth the meat they're made from, I swear.
>>15383 >City folks aren't worth the meat they're made from, I swear. Top-tier insult honestly, nice one. >Don't tell me you bought Putin's propaganda of their country as a traditionalist paradise? My impression is the government is openly opposed to gays & niggers. Is this not correct? Also, IIRC they are(have?) ejecting 1'000'000 illegal immigrants from the country? Also, I honestly believe Putin himself is a stalwart Russian Orthodox Christian. That surely counts for something important and good, At the very least it does, as you say, prop up the traditionalist paradise image (BTW, I doubt many of us would consider it 'paradise', simply far better that what most of us deal with daily, decadence and degeneracy-wise. For example, they don't have a nigger problem, and my guess is you probably don't grasp just how terrible that is on a culture).
>>15386 Russia has what I call "black people". I developed the habit to differentiate between black people and niggers, the latter being the typical apefrican shitskins with zero brains, and the former being actually developed humans, that are able to integrate in a society. Russia has those, and there are a few black academics in Russia, so that surely means something. Putin is kind of the figurehead to take on everything, the good and the bad, that's why I respect him. Not because he does a great job of making the country a better place, because he's not as powerful as people make him out to be. He is one man against the entirety of the Russian oligarchy, and the best course of action for him and the country is to let them steal, but not so much as to drive the entire country to shit. Oligarchs steal, but shit has to get done, and that's what Putin tries to do. Politics are more complicated than just killing off the bad, rewarding the good, and keeping the streets clean. If Putin decides to destroy the oligarchy, he risks to be curbstomped by them and their allies. Simply put, he allows corruption, but not outright butchering the country for profit. Because Russian oligarchs are honestly damn stupid, and they would drive the country to ruins, without regards to the consequences.
>>15387 Having a few, well-integrated blacks isn't even remotely like what 'having a nigger problem' means. As I suspected, you seem not to have a clear understanding of the terrible aspect of this issue on the West. America has it far worse than others, but the globalist kikes are working hard to make every other country but their own have this problem on their doorsteps, including your own lad. Interesting political synopsis, and Putin's place in Russia's. As you suggest, all politics is anything but cut and dried. But all you have to do is look at the fact of the former-USA's blatant and open presidential theft of a few months ago, and the fact it didn't trigger an immediate civil war, as very clear evidence things are not simply 'business as usual' today. We are on the brink of a major upheaval the world over in my opinion.
>>15388 No no, I understand the problem that comes from having a lot of underdeveloped beings in your country. Niggers are a problem, but so are Arabs and Indians. America is suffering the consequences of freeing a slave population, that is severely underdeveloped in it's intelligence. Had the Americans not freed their slaves, they wouldn't have the problems they have now. OTOH, they could have avoided all of that by not importing niggers at all. The world is at a fork now. Either the global financial elite succeeds in their endeavour to enslave the world, leading everyone into a golden Age of automation, minimum government gibs and unheard of degeneracy and hedonism, or Rome will crumble once again, leaving behind a dark time, where everyone struggles for their own survival. Maybe we will see a different scenario, but not fundamentally different from the previous empires, that have risen, prospered and fallen. Maybe it won't happen in our lifetime, maybe it'll happen next year. But it's happening, slowly but steadily.
>>15386 I am not Russian (though I have my fair knowledge about their history) but their traditionalist customs (mostly their no tolerance to faggotry) is more due to popular beliefs than any initiative Putin has ever made. Also they have their "nigger" problem in the form of chechenians (who have blackmailed the government in running their republic as a feud in exchange of not revolting) and turkic-asiatic peoples (I couldn't tell you who are and who isn't really conflicting though) who keep reproducing like rabbits while ethnic Russians are stagnant at best due to Russia still not recovered from the 1990s-early 2000s shitshow and doesn't seem to be looking upwards. >>15387 >Integrated black people. Don't fall on this meme, it was the same tactic they use for immigration in the west in the past and look at us now. Civic nationalism doesn't work, USA is a good example of that.
>>15392 Well, if you say so. I do know that blacks are generally niggers, who cannot be used for more than slave labor. Still, smart blacks exist, even though they're like 1 in a billion. As to racial issues, Russia has a very important advantage: it's incredibly large, and spans across several timezones and climatic regions. While the southwestern regions are definitely seeing an influx of arabic-asian bastards, Siberia is pretty much clean. It's mostly Russians and descendants of the German immigrants over there, especially in the Altai and Novosibirsk regions. It's almost like roaches avoid cold places.
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Russia's problem is that they're still in Stockholm syndrome from the centuries of being brutally conquered by Vikings, Mongolians, and Turks, and when they finally kicked everyone out and started to see a cultural recovery due to the Greeks taking an interest in them, the rest of Central/Eastern Europe had a shit fit which completely fucked them over and allowed a bunch of dumbasses to get into power and create the biggest meme in modern history thanks to people being fed up and hoping something else would make a difference. Protip: it made it worse. I don't think Russia's a great place, but I can respect that their militant actions are typically due to NATO being on their fucking doorstep and expanding at every turn. I don't think the Russian political bodies would even give a shit about Chechnya if not for Westerners still acting like this is the fucking cold war. For all of Merkel's being a megalomaniac, she's at least tried to restore normal working relations with the Russians. I can't wait for these fucking boomers to die so America can restore their pre-1917 working relations with Russia already. I gotta admit the dog thing is always hilarious to watch. Putin knows that Merkel hates dogs with a loathing passion, so he always brings his pet dog with him when they have visits.
>>15392 >Civic nationalism doesn't work, USA is a good example of that. But there are examples of it working. The thing is that countries need an ethnic supermajority, but complete ethnic purity is not really necessary, i'd say it can be even counter productive, look at Japan for example, with 98% off the population being Japanese they're an ethnostate for all practical purposes, but anyone still has the door open to stay if they deserve it.
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>>15388 >Interesting political synopsis, and Putin's place in Russia's. As you suggest, all politics is anything but cut and dried. The issue is the West doesn't have and actively works against the rise of politicians and statesmen in Putin's, Assad's, or the general historical pattern of leaders that actually lead. The West has administrators at best, whose only purpose is to maintain a status quo. In the past, the price for a country that didn't actively exploit the opportunities it was given while circumventing its weaknesses was destruction and disgrace. The modern Western global economic system means even without active military occupation Western societies can rest on their laurels as legacy hegemon. For a country like Russia, or China, their geopolitical framing is one of competition and violation of the present order, but for the West it's defensive, reactive, deliberately careful so as not to unravel trust in the pyramid scheme. Corona-chan showed how retarded and/or senile the Western political classes are leaving borders open and waiting for the UN and their handlers to tell them to do anything, and when they did it was to cut loose those struggling to make a living to pad the pockets and solidify the domination of Amazon and the rest of the corporate oligarchy. The modern consumer man looks at this, and says yes, I want these ghouls running over ever more aspects of my life, as long as I get more product. He has replaced his immortal spirit of creative endeavour with a plastic substitute. When we look at the past, and how much a man can achieve in one lifetime, we realize we are but specks of dust kicked up in the shadow of titans. Russia is not free from the allure of materialism, especially in its cities where flocks of young liberals and the children of politicians are enamoured with and schooled after the Western example. At the least though, it venerates the foundational characters of its history after nearly having it wiped out by the Bolsheviks, while the West had its frogs cooked. >Increasingly through the early twentieth century, John Bull became seen as not particularly representative of "the common man," and during the First World War this function was largely taken over by the figure of Tommy Atkins. According to Alison Light, during the interwar years the nation abandoned "formerly heroic...public rhetorics of national destiny" in favour of "an Englishness at once less imperial and more inward-looking, more domestic and more private". Consequently, John Bull was replaced by Sidney Strube's suburban Little Man as the personification of the nation. Some saw John Bull's replacement by the Little Man as symbolic of Britain's post-First World War decline; W. H. Auden's 1937 poem "Letter to Lord Byron" favourably contrasted John Bull to the Little Man.
>>15401 I'm not saying we should go "Day of the Rope" at the sight of any non-inmigrant minority living in your country. But civic nationalism is too relative and not better neither "morally" (the successful examples needed of some degree of cultural genocide) or practically (being generally still more unstable than homogeneous countries) to an ethnostate. Also, if you must use, as Russia probably had to stop whining minorities. Make sure in only applicate it to native minorities (and if the groups are too different it still not work, look at South Africa), not for any immigrant that has come there to leech your archs.
>>15411 minorities in other countries can work out just fine, as long as the cultures overlap in some areas. A good example is the current russian minority in Germany. They are a minority that congregates in certain areas, and despite generally keeping to themselves (Russians marrying other russian being the rule), have adapted quite well to their surroundings. They are mostly conservative in their beliefs too, so they can be a good anchor for conservative policy in a country, where the majority of the native population swings in favor of more liberal, destructive policies. again, only works with certain groups. Cultural intermingling is generally a good thing, as long as it happens between cultures with similar fundamental traits. it doesn't help anyone, when german cultural values get muddied with arab "values". But in regards to cultural mixing, i am glad to move in german circles, enjoying the local culture, while being able to contribute to it myself (Germans tend to enjoy russian cooking very much, at least in the north)
>>15406 Well put >>15411 But not all immigrants come to leech, sure the vast majority of the ones coming to the west do but there are some success stories. >>15412 This, i just want a nuance view of things, not the woke one where destroying the original culture and people is desirable for "equality, but neither the /pol/ larpers demanding genocide as answer to every problem approach, both are also quite ignorant of history.
>>15406 >The issue is the West doesn't have and actively works against the rise of politicians and statesmen in Putin's, Assad's, or the general historical pattern of leaders that actually lead Fuck off with this shit. Being a kleptocrat populist who does nothing but weaken their own country out of petty spite against the west (while still being completely reliant on them) isn't strong leadership, it's being a bitch. Russia has had totally stunted economic growth and quality of life compared to most other former USSR countries. >He has replaced his immortal spirit of creative endeavour with a plastic substitute. Exactly what communists said, i.e. garbage. At least we aren't like those soulless capitalists slaving away for our masters, and we're liberated workers of the party instead! At least we aren't those hedonist westerners, and we're under Dear Manlet's "strong leadership" instead!
>>15416 Do you know why? Because Russia is fuckhuge, and there are several problems arising from that. First of all, Goods have to travel far distances to even arrive at their destination, meaning longer travel times, larger cost, more Opportunities for breakdown and outages. additionally, you have infrastructural problems arising from the climatic conditions there. Do you know how fucking hard it is to provide public services to production facilities, when you have to dig at least 1,5 meters deep everytime you want to lay down plumbing and communication? And you have to, because otherwise your Water supply/shit drain will freeze up as soon as the winter frost hits. This isn't europe, where you can get away with laying pipe just half a meter below ground level. Additionally, Building cost is higher, as you have to provide adequate Insulation to keep a building warm during the harsh winter. And these are only a few of the more surface problems that Russia has. As to Putin being a kleptocrat populist: Is there an objective Reason behind your claim? If so, lay it out before us, so we can examine it. As i see it, Putin, if he were to try and rob his country, the same country he was born and raised in, and which he served for a very long time, even before getting into power, wouldn't he do it in a more effective manner? He would be better served working together with the west, wouldn't he? But he doesn't, instead throwing a wrench in their cogs everytime he can, without risking an open war. He shoots down destructive liberal policies, that may serve to lower his countries standards of education, in favor of short-term profits and boosts to the economy, instead aiming to strengthen his country over a long time, and keeping the russian people strong in body and mind. Now tell me, why should we trust (((you))) on this matter? Are (((you))) in any form an advocate for the russian people? Or are you merely someone, who is willing to sacrifice the long term prosperity and wellbeing of his people, in exchange for some sweet coca-cola, and a new pair of sneakers?
>>15416 >everyone in power is only there in bad faith, and can't be good in some ways while bad in others Okay
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It's all just more of pic related. >>15416 >while still being completely reliant on them I'm not that anon, I don't think Russia is a paradise by any means, nor am I a nationalist or communist luddite, but where goods don't cross borders, soldiers will. Securing a "you scratch my back I scratch yours" trade system is more efficient for a country overall than trying to do everything yourself half-assed and overpriced. Russia is a nation that relies mostly on oil, mineral, and agriculture exports in exchange for nice things from China and Europe. Countries that rely on the export of resources and food have historically had to throw their weight around to avoid being invaded for resources, and the current globohomo environment incentivizes invading such countries. Russia's culture is reactionary to such invasive tactics because their history is basically being occupied for resources/babies and then kicking out the occupiers (and babies) for the last 1500 years. They're going to have a different culture than Western Europe who's only shared enemy with Russia were the Viking thugs that wanted to rape their sheep and women. I got a bit off-target there but my point is, Russia isn't going to suddenly magically start farting rainbows and industry out their ass when their industry is oil/mineral/agriculture exports to other countries. Before the advent of oil their main exports were ore, minerals, and agriculture (just hemp/flax instead of wheat). Asking them to modernize and focus on industries other than what they've historically been good for producing would be like asking the American South to suddenly industrialize during the height of the slave trade.
>>15417 >infrastructure because russia big What the fuck does this have to do with anything? Canada is huge too and deals with most of the same shit. Still better. >As to Putin being a kleptocrat populist: Is there an objective Reason behind your claim? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipAnwilMncI >As i see it, Putin, if he were to try and rob his country, the same country he was born and raised in, and which he served for a very long time, even before getting into power, wouldn't he do it in a more effective manner? He would be better served working together with the west, wouldn't he? See above. He does benefit from it, and he has been very effective at his theft. >destructive liberal policies >keeping the russian people strong Fucking LMAO. Are you just some kremlinbot looking to waste time by throwing around textwalls that boil down to "russia big, putin strong traditionalist" or something? >Or are you merely someone, who is willing to sacrifice the long term prosperity and wellbeing of his people, in exchange for some sweet coca-cola, and a new pair of sneakers? Except Russia is very materialistic despite it all, has crazy AIDS problems because of fentanyl and all the smart people want to leave the country immediately. Russia isn't on track for a future where the "russian people are strong in body and mind" like this. >>15418 Except Putin is 80% bad. Everyone knows he's dictator for life at this point, and things aren't exactly great under him. Everyone knows of the obvious low standard of living, theft and corruption that isn't improving compared to most former soviet countries, but people generally forget about the censorship and increasing surveillance state. Russians deserve better than some thieving manlet and a bunch of oligarchs. Is he just a product of the system, a system that can only be fixed by burning it down and rebuilding it? I don't know. But I do know that Putin and his cronies aren't worth defending.
>>15421 Question for the slavs here. Why hasn't the Odessa/Mykolaiv /Kherson/Dnipropetrovsk/Kharkiv (Most of the russian speaking portions not in open revolt) not formed somesort of breakaway state? Is it because they were bribed by the Maidan government or they have closer ties to the Ukrainan part economically?
>>15432 >What the fuck does this have to do with anything? Canada is huge too and deals with most of the same shit. Still better. Thanks to its historic colonial relationship with the world hegemons of the UK and the US, from which financing poured forth to fund the construction of railroads, seaports, and airports. Russia colonized the Russian Far East on its own, and its resources led to its entanglement with the Great Power politics of Western Europe. Except for a brief period in the late 19th century though, with the construction of the Trans Siberian Railroad, it never properly pursued the technological development that would have allowed it to integrate and exploit its vast interior. The consequence of this is its infrastructure doesn't enable an organic popular unity; its regions and territories may be historical and customary components of the Russian Federation but the whole population isn't able to agree with one mindset that they should choose one system or another. The Tsar and the Soviets both ran things out of Moscow; the Yeltsin and Putin oligarchs don't care but to keep their stranglehold on the lifeblood of the country the way it is. Since you sound like you actually live in Russia, while most Streloks live in the West, the external perspective is that your foreign policy does break convention. From your internal perspective though, the same status quo disease seems to apply. In the West, the ideology is the liberal world order; in Russia, it sounds like oligarchs use a guise of nationalism to pacify instead.
>>15432 >>15436 Regarding Canada, it is comparable, and yet it is not. Canada has a belt of cities in the US border that stretches ocean-to-ocean, and a long stretch of land northward flanked by those very same ocean (and Alaska, but let's just ignore that for my argument's sake). They can make inroads into the resource rich lands from the belt of cities or go along the coast. Russia has a developed area west of the Urals, and a long stretch of land east of it. Their stretch of land is flanked by an ocean too icy to be really useful on the north (although that is about to change), and in the south it's nothing but more empty land until you hit China or India (now there all those -istans there, but once those were also part of Russia). Russia's exploitable lands are not just bigger, but penetrating them is simply much harder because there is nothing to help you structure the process. Russia has to build cities in the middle of nowhere, and the (rail)roads to connect them to the rest of the world somehow. Meanwhile in Canada you can open a mine in the wilderness and bring the ore to the belt of cities or to either coast. Of course the latter is still an enormous challenge, but it's still nothing compared to the Siberian cities that are cut off from the world half the year.
>>15436 You raise a very good point, but those resources that are currently inefficiently exploited by state owned enterprise could have instead been exploited by efficient Russian private business with western investment instead. What is actually going happen now, is that the Chinese will further encroach on Siberia, further invest, further immigrate with hundreds of thousands of Chinese and exploit all that is there instead. Shit, it's already happening now. If China doesn't crash and they take a leading global role in another 10 to 30 years then Siberia is going to become Chinese in fifty, Beijing is closer to Siberia than Moscow is after all. >Since you sound like you actually live in Russia I'm not, but my country borders it, was also in the USSR and has a large Russian minority. >in Russia, it sounds like oligarchs use a guise of nationalism to pacify instead. Yes, but I think with Russian nationalists they often want to believe in this idea of a strong Russia, and in this current state they think this defines a strong Russia. Not another USA with world class manufacturing, massive agricultural export, world class science, but just slow depression and unrealised potential while the leader whispers sweet nothings and bullies smaller countries that border it when they get too unpopular.
>>15438 The inefficiency is a consequence of successive decades of poor decisions. The Tsars were skeptical of industrialists undermining absolutism and never pursued investment with any enthusiasm. The Soviets had investment but as communists didn't believe in commerce, and built pointless industrial cities in the middle of Siberia as some autistic labor dream. The end of the USSR had Western bankers show up like Jeffery Sachs that implemented a process of transitioning to a market economy by giving workers employed producing products that nobody wanted stocks in their state owned company, that they sold to the oligarchs because they had more pressing needs like food and housing. In the late 90s with the Russian financial crisis, the situation rapidly degenerating in Chechnya, and the Kursk submarine disaster Putin steps in from the intelligence sector and makes a devil's bargain to save the country from continued embarrassment. The late 2000s oil price spike gave the country renewed confidence in the face of the 2007 global recession hitting the West, but since then it appears to have stagnated domestically as the power brokers are entrenched and risk-averse at the cost of innovation. Having Western companies develop your shit isn't a free ride either. The British and the French bankrupted Egypt with the Suez Canal and forced them into becoming a colony. The Chinese are trying the same in Belt and Road. There were reasons for the Russians to be suspicious. With the Chinese they seem to be stuck with them as their primary lender so the Kremlin is between a rock and a hard place.
>>15432 >Nawalnij >Putin's palace Oh, alright. I thought I had to type out a serious reply there for a second. Thank god I don't have to waste anymore time on ya.
>>15435 They are Russian speaking, but they don't have an ethnic Russian majority. They are simply not interested in breaking away, because they're not russian, but Ukrainian.
>>15439 Good breakdown of the mentality that led to his power grab. I've sometimes thought of Russia setting up Hong Kong or Shenzhen type breakaway area where nothing is tied to the burden of the Kremlin, but the logistics, the geography of where to place this hypothetical area and initial cost of trying to revamp some old city would be too tough. Assuming this came out successful then the Kremlin would also get cold feet and want to reintegrate quickly. This idea is a long shot though, there's not a lot of opportunity to fill a gap, like Shenzhen, Hong Kong, Singapore and others have. >Jefferey Sachs Never knew of this person and how influential he was. Apparently he advised my own country too, but mine came out a lot better than Russia. Perhaps because it's much smaller and doesn't have any industry. And these days he shills for Biden, China and leads the UN SDG. >>15441 I guess I don't either, if you'll just deny the facts of Putin being a thief. I'm indifferent to Navalny because Russian liberals are often retarded too, but I don't see him as much worse than Putin.
>>15447 Damn, I said I didn't have to waste my time, but I really am getting hot-headed right now. If you call Putin a thief, then please provide something more waterproof than a video made by nawalnij, who is a financial criminal and prostitute of western interests, which is completely worthless. Pro-tip: you can't, because the story of Putin being a thief is a narrative of the Western powers, in order to break support for Putin and make Russia susceptible to foreign influence. I really hope my words come through to you, but I guess I'm talking against a wall. Or maybe you're a shill, I don't know, but I hope not. Take it from someone who loves his country and genuinely thinks, that Putin is a good president.
>>15448 Just watch the fucking video. Do you really, really, seriously and unironically think anyone other than Putin would have a billion euro house that big, that is guarded by the government as if it was a military installation under restricted airspace, his own helipad, his own amphitheatre, that has a winery that produces the wine that Putin himself offers at social events? I don't care about Navalny, but be fucking realistic, Putin owns that shit.
>>15447 >I've sometimes thought of Russia setting up Hong Kong or Shenzhen type breakaway area where nothing is tied to the burden of the Kremlin, but the logistics, the geography of where to place this hypothetical area and initial cost of trying to revamp some old city would be too tough They had the farfetched scheme of attracting settlers with free land in Kamkatcha or somewhere in the Russian Pacific region a while back, but since it's a desolate waste while it did have takers it isn't going to be a windfall for the country. It seems moreso to avoid depopulation in Siberia and the risk of Chinese moving in on it in the future.
>>15450 Nawalnij is full of shit. But, as you told me, i watched the video. I started to look into the case, even though it's plain obvious this is just another attempt to fuck over Russia in order for it to be taken over by westerniggers. Still, i will look into it, though i must say that now that nawalnigger has released his shitpost of a documentary, the internets have been filled with the same crap he said in his video, so it's hard for me to find the source materials he must've used for his investigations, if he did them at all. I urge you to do some research, too. It's no good to blindly trust people, especially if they obviously don't have your best interest in mind (coming from the perspective of a russian). Even though you say you don't care about nawalnij, you used his video as a source for your claims, and despite me asking you to provide other sources, you told me to "watch the fucking video", and also appealed to my common sense. The thing is, i don't just do "common sense" calculations in affairs such as these, without looking deep into it. Putin isn't the only one in Russia with access to large amounts of money, and if you account for offshore Money, there are a lot of potential suspects who could have built such an object. And after all, even considering that Putin is behind all of this, we shouldn't forget that he is a very thorough and strict person. Do you think he would've let something as stupid as botching up a buildings ventilation happen? No, he wouldn't, that's one of the problems i have with that documentation of nawalnij. In the end, i cannot hope to convince someone who has dug himself in, and mistrusts anyone who differs from his own standpoint. I just hope that you may start looking into the affair yourself, strelok, and do your research, not only in this affair, but also in every future scenario, where such stories are presented, seemingly clear and foolproof, but often built on a construct of lies and deceit. now my fingers hurt from all that typing
>>15442 Okay thanks. That makes much more sense. 2nd question. How big is the difference of Russia/Ukraine/Belarus culturally? I know that the languages are somewhat different, but is it like minor differences like spelling like US/UK (centre vs center) or is the culture very different like the US/South Africa (The Afrikaans portion, and thus only tangentally related)? I'm not well versed on Eastern European culture inb4 get out of here stalker so I'd thought I bother to ask about this. Most people where I live just view the Ukrainans and Russians as a monolithic entity and I'm pretty sure that's not the case. I just wanted the my burgerfats to get out of NATO so we could focus on the issue at home but that is a pipe dream. Пришло время. Я вижу твоё желание
>>15461 >Ukrainian, Russian, Belarus Not entirely my expertise, I don't have contacts with belarussians >Ukraine, Russia Let's start with some obvious things: Ukrainian language is kinda similar to the Russian as is austrian to german, at least from my perspective. We can understand eachother rudimentary, if talking slow and coherently, but there's a lot of different words, that are not easily understood by Russians, and vice versa. Russians have broad cultural differences between regions, as Russia is large, and many cultures intermingle on it's territory, resulting in many different variations, depending on where you go. generally speaking, Russians have more of the Slavic cultural heritage than Ukrainians, who are also divided in East and West. Western Ukrainians are generally speaking more European, sharing characteristics with polish and Hungarians. Eastern Ukrainians are more Slavic, still, they are more reclusive, and rather introverted. Russians are outgoing, and generally care about eachother and other people. Also, Russians are generally more tempted to drink and party, which resulted in the "russian drinking" stereotype. Though that is also more a west-russian thing, whereas Siberians are oftentimes more like Ukrainians, being more independent and introverted, but still ready to help anyone in need. I myself have both russian and Ukrainian roots, and I can attest to a conflict in introvertedness and outgoing character. I'm generally more reclusive though, having a hard time making new friends, those that I have though I always am ready to support. I could elaborate further, but I would need some direction to go in, lest it becomes an incoherent rant.
>>15462 >Ukrainian language is kinda similar to the Russian as is austrian to german horrible analogy. There isn't even any such thing as an "austrian language" they both just speak plain german. The way you described it, a far better comparison would be german and dutch, as those two can understand each other if they speak slowly but probably couldn't follow a native conversation.
>>15463 Dutch/German is probably a bit too far as well. The best analogy would probably be something like Danish/Norwegian or Finnish/Estonian.
>>15463 Well, formally not. Still, there are specific dialects, that are considered Austrian, one of those being the Vienna dialect, or "Wienerisch" as Germans call it. I speak German fluently, and I have a really hard time understanding that dialect. That anon probably meant exactly this dialect, even though it's not an own language. But then, there's also no formal Swiss language, and still the dialect the Swiss speak in is called "schweizerisch", "Schweizerdeutsch" or "Schwiezerdütsch".
>>15465 This is likely what anon meant. From native Russians I've talked with, Ukrainian is basically Russian with a hard-to-understand accent when talking with any Ukrainian in their thirties or older, but reading Ukrainian is basically impossible, in part because virtually all official Russian is in cursive while virtually all official Ukrainian is in print, and in part because the Ukrainian alphabet adopts Western letters for certain sounds. They have noted that the younger generations keep adding Ukrainian-original words to their everyday language so it is emerging as a fully separated language, it just won't really be there for probably another generation or three.
>>15465 I also speak German fluently and the way the Ukrainian/Russian difference was explained, there is enough of a difference to make it hard to understand for the other. That is simply not the case with Wienerisch and normal German. The German language is full of dialects and accents and always has been but not even close to the point that you would have a problem talking to each other normally. If Austrian is suddenly it's own language (which is also split into multiple different dialects, so gotta make those languages now) then there would be about 20 different languages the Germans speak. We could do that. We could also split up England and call every dialect and accent it's very own language. But we don't, because that is retarded. So either this analogy is shit or Ukrainians having their own language is just a larp and they basically speak Russian with very very minor differences.
>>15468 Ukrainian is a transitional language. It was originally Russian, then it became a specific dialect of Russian, then it became "that bastardized Russian that the bordermen speak", then they started adopting their own alphabet and we are here. Language is not a solid concept because it is constantly evolving. See pidgin English, which is technically still English but which is so different from English while adopting loanwords from other languages that it could also be considered a transitional language that might lead to something else eventually while still being roughly translatable. Also your example is shit because English is several languages smashed into one, those dialects being the standardization of those individual languages that developed.
>>15468 Okay, dann hab ich wohl nur die Wiener gesehen die völlig unverständlich schnacken, da war kaum ein Wort zu verstehen. Ukrainian is basically russian with influence from Eastern Europe. The problem are the Latin letters and the custom Ukrainian words that can't be found in russian. That's why I picked the analogy. It's not an entirely new language, it's just confusing and different enough to be considered one.
>>15470 >implying pidgin English can be called a language. Didn't know animals can talk. Anyways, the example can be made with basically any language and regional variants on it, pick your favorite. >>15471 Schätze wohl schon. War schon in Österreich und kenn auch zwei, einer spezifisch aus Wien und hatte nie Probleme. Wenn du was wirklich schlimmes hören willst, geh an die Grenzregionen zur Niederlande. An einigen Stellen ist Friesisch und Niederländisch da genau das gleiche und vermischt sich zu etwas was keins von beidem so wirklich ähnelt.
>>15468 Both Germanic and Slavic languages are prone of developing lots of dialects, combine that with a concentrated effort to strengthen the dialectical differences and set up a new standard, and with enough time you can end up with a new language. For an other example look at Slovak: eastern Slovak dialects are just a weird version of Czech, meanwhile westernmost dialects are closer to Polish and Ukrainian. And there is even a small pocket in the south-west where the local language is nearly a South Slavic dialect. For a time they just wanted to adopt standard Czech and be done with it, but then the winds changed and they adopted a transitional dialect from the middle of the country, and developed that into their literally language. Or for an even more extreme example look at France: the language of Southern France was a series of transitional dialects between the languages spoken in northern Italy and northern Spain, and it's nothing like what we think of as French. Indeed, it was a different language from the one spoken in Paris. But after the revolution of 1789 the Parisian language was enforced on all of the country, and by now that southern language is virtually extinct.
>>15473 The differences in language between northern and southern France had less to do with the French language and more with ethnic differences between the two halves. The north being Celts that got raped by Germans a lot and the south being Celts that got raped by Romans a lot. This caused a significant amount of tension throughout the middle ages until the half-German side won and then immediately decided that their number 1 goal is being anti-German, funnily enough.
>>15473 >But after the revolution of 1789 the Parisian language was enforced on all of the country, and by now that southern language is virtually extinct. Good reminder that states are the enemies of nations. polite sage for off topic
>>15489 >states are the enemy of nations I've seen this quote a few times and it's interesting. What's it from?
I'm reading an article saying Georgia, Ukraine, and Moldova have signed an agreement to further "prep" their countries to join the European Union, but how is that possible when Moldova hasn't had a functional government since November? The pro-Russia candidate had to dispose of the Moldovan constitutional court's president because he didn't get his way with the prime minister and was afraid of re-elections.
It would seem Belarus is pulling a Turkey. Even though allowing migrants to cross the border unhindered isn't necessarily an international crime, the evidence is suggesting that they're doing it intentionally, which constitutes an act of war. Lithuania is pushing for calling it an act of war, but the EU is lagging behind. Direct link because phonefagging and no archive exists yet: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/lithuania-says-belarus-could-be-behind-recent-migrant-influx-lithuania-belarus-european-union-vilnius-alexander-lukashenko-b1861245.html
>>16174 >possibility of a major conflict starting from Belarus of all places >a place no one gave much of a shit about until the plane shenanigans
>>16175 It's not that nobody gave a shit, it's just that Lukashenko has had a stranglehold over Belarus for the last two decades that made the country fairly impervious unless Europe was willing to put boots on the ground. He started opening up the country to play the West and Russia against each other around 2016, but went right back to his old ways as soon as Westerners pointed out election rigging. Last I checked he's had some 35,000 people sentenced to hard labor or other prison sentences in the last year for opposing him.
>>16189 Thing is nobody expected Lukashenko to be an absolute mad man given how he's been able to navigate so successfully as to remain in power for so long.
>>16201 True, but famous leaders and institutions have a history of doing some pretty crazy shit when they realize they're at the end of their rope. The Tatamadaw in Burma being another more recent example.
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>>16606 WWIII soon, fellow Streloks?
>>16607 And it's going to be caused by the fucking Bongs too.
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>>16606 British MoD says it Russians were performing a gunnery exercise while the destroyer was sailing away from them. Meanwhile a bong on the fucking ship says they did it on purpose. The British MoD claims it was in Ukrainian waters, which makes it sound like a statement that they consider Crimea de jure Ukrainian.
>>16615 Why even go near Crimea if they are immediately acting as if nothing happened as if they are scared of the outcome? Did they need data on Russia's fleet and aircraft?
>>16606 >naval war with Russia without them having the Kamchatka around their neck
>>16612 >And it's going to be caused by the fucking Bongs too. Pffwwt. BWAAHAHAHAHAHA Strelok, pls. After ZOG disposes of says a sad goodbye to the Usurper-in-Chief, their nigger-woman is next in line. WWIII will be World War Kamala.
>>16676 >pic Looks cute, a big sub with its little friend subs.
>>16676 Why hasn't anyone created buzz droids water drones to make submarines obsolete the way giant battleships have become? I imagine a water drone equipped with self-attaching legs and an impact tool to drive holes into a submarine's hull/cut off segments would be fairly cheap to design.
>>16683 Sea is sort of a big place and it's already pain in the ass to find subs. And if you can find sub you can just shoot a torpedo at it and be done with it.
>>16683 >obsolete the way giant battleships have become Cute. We have a naval thread that is highly willing to call you on that. Because giant battleships only became 'obsolete' due to 1) Politics and Luck. After Crossroads the US Navy literally made a coin-flip to decide whether to pressure congress for new CVs or BBs, because they realized they'd only get one of them funded. If the US maintained BBs, everyone else would have tried to. Vanguard and Jean Bart were only scrapped after the US removed all but four of their fleet. and 2) More Politics and people completely forgetting the core mission of navies. Within the last 20 years, the US Navy has admitted the only reason that they still don't have fleets of battleships in service is because they're too scary and 'conflict with the Navy's humanitarian mission'.
>>16694 Or maybe being a giant hulking target is a bad idea when defensive technology lags about two generations behind offensive technology and has since about the Great War.
>>16695 That's a retarded argument. It is not that Defensive Technology has lagged behind Weapons Technology, it is that the Aggressor has the advantage in choosing the time and place of engagement. That has nothing to do with technology at all and everything to due with the nature of warfare. The result is that the defender has to spread their focus thin over wide areas while the attacker gets to focus their attack on the weakest link. When both sides get to put their best show in the same location, offensive systems and defensive systems have consistently shown themselves to be roughly equivalent with a very slight edge to the offensive system due primarily to the cheaper nature of prototyping munitions. This is, of course, no longer true, given the advent of high-energy lasers, particle cannons (MARAUDER), Railgun CIWS (CCEGL), and super-alloys such as Nanoplate which can according to simulations shrug off even nuclear blasts in armor-grade thicknesses. Even in WW2, means existed to completely shut down attacks on fleets by aircraft. The 'Great Light Project', just to name one American 'AA' system from 1939, was the Canal Defense Lights on steroids: giant shipborne focused-searchlights functioning as proto-lasers meant to burn out pilots' eyes. The US Navy balked at the concept in the end and threw it out as inhumane after animal testing proved it to be extremely effective beyond their expectations (they were expecting deterrent, not lethality). But this isn't the right thread for this.
>>16696 >This is, of course, no longer true, given the advent of high-energy lasers, particle cannons (MARAUDER), Railgun CIWS (CCEGL), and super-alloys such as Nanoplate which can according to simulations shrug off even nuclear blasts in armor-grade thicknesses. God damn it, when are we going to see a clash on the high seas between major naval forces again?
>>16606 >>16615 >>16669 >Classified Ministry of Defence documents containing details about HMS Defender and the British military have been found at a bus stop in Kent. >The documents relating to the Royal Navy's Type 45 destroyer, HMS Defender, show that a mission described by the MoD as an "innocent passage through Ukrainian territorial waters", with guns covered and the ship's helicopter stowed in its hangar, was conducted in the expectation that Russia might respond aggressively. Fucking Bongs lmao. To be fair to the RN, the ship technically had the right to go there regardless of whether those are considered Russian or Ukrainian waters, since the Law of the Sea allows for "innocent passage" and the ship actually was trying to get from point A to point B across the Black Sea. That kind of mission is far from new or exclusive to the Bongs. And either route, whether going out of their way to avoid waters they still officially call Ukrainian or passing through them like they did, would have risked looking bad, since one looks weak and the other looks provocative. I can understand why they took the route that potentially made them look less impotent. The response and the denials afterwards >>16615 are retarded though.
>>16767 Forgot archive link
>>16768 What the fuck? It stripped the link from my post. I pasted it into the reply box, saw it appear, and then the post auto-submitted without including the link. What the hell is this site playing at? https://archive.is/67GTT
>>16767 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Navy#Future >In October 2020 Ukraine and the United Kingdom signed a memorandum in which the UK government pledged to provide a 10-year loan of up to £1.25 billion ($1.6 billion) for the re-equipment of the Ukrainian Navy.[67] In June 2021, during a visit by HMS Defender to Odessa, it was revealed that an agreement had been reached for two Sandown class minehunters to be transferred to the Ukrainian Navy upon decommissioning from the Royal Navy.
>>16696 We have nuke proof armor now?
>>16781 Only on the lower half of nuclear weapon yields, say common tactical warheads. A strategic nuke is still going through it, and even the tactical warheads will cause significant damage. Theoretically, you could stack enough of the armor to defeat even a Tsar Bomba, but at the thicknesses involved you'd be bankrupting multiple nations to afford it. And before you get your hopes up about tactical-nuke-proof tanks, the armor is cost prohibitive in anything less than already multi-billion dollar installations.
>>16801 >And before you get your hopes up about tactical-nuke-proof tanks, the armor is cost prohibitive in anything less than already multi-billion dollar installations. No it's not. They just use a mixture of tungsten and depleted uranium for the base plating among several other "confidential" materials and you're unlikely to get ahold of Uranium Hexaflouride if you don't own nuclear facilities because it's a heavily controlled substance internationally. The armor made is far from anything expensive and doesn't provide nearly the level of protection Strelok thinks it does when you consider the weight drawbacks and the fact that goat piss bombs regularly decommission tanks using such armor. The mass and density of said armor also makes it unfloatable so don't use it as an example of ship armor to justify an unrelated argument.
>>16804 You have a reading comprehension of exactly zero, Strelok. What you described is in absolutely no way Nanoplate, which was specifically mentioned by name. Nanoplate is based around Carbon Nanotubes as the primary 'armor', thus the name 'nanoplate', with steel or titanium layers providing structural strength, which is why it's (technically incorrectly) referred to as an alloy. It is not a Tu-DeU Composite as seen in the Abrams and, frankly, you have to be lower than nigger-tier retarded to even think such was being referred to.
>>16805 It's not that I have poor reading comprehension, it's just from skimming Strelok was describing Abrams tank armor and acting like it's somehow impervious when farmers learned to get around it with goat piss bombs over a decade ago. If we're talking about Nanoplate, I would ask you to actually specify which one because it sounds like you're describing Graphene Oxide which is easily produced at an industrial scale if you build the initial infrastructure which runs for a few million dollars, well within the financial ranges of most of the world militaries. If that is what you mean by "Nanoplate" then the Chinese figured out how to produce 3D structures affordably a couple years ago and published the process. It's good for deflecting energy (heat, photons, electricity, etc.) and can make fibers 50% stronger when incorporated, but it's only some miracle compound in your vidya. If you aren't talking about graphene oxide, then please specify what you mean by "nanoplate" and I would be more than willing to rip you a new one for responding like a nigger to try to make me back down.
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US poking the bear. NATO going through joint exercises with Ukraine near Crimea. Russia has told them to stay in international waters. https://archive.is/xtLeV
>>16809 >it's just from skimming Strelok was describing Abrams tank armor So, you admit you have zero reading comprehension. Try actually following the reply chain next time if you think your very important point is worth mentioning at all so you can actually have context. The primary topic was naval armor, not tank armor. Strelok was just saying that it was not cost effective to put on tanks trying to preempt an obvious association some people want to have by throwing any armor development on tanks while trying to make bolos. I will repeat: frankly, you have to be lower than nigger-tier retarded to even think such (Abrams Armor) was being referred to. >because it sounds like you're describing Graphene Oxide No, Strelok, I was clearly talking about Carbon Nanotubes, which are not Graphene Oxide. I literally just described what the Nanoplate I was referring to was, but you - like a nigger - refused to read what was written.
>>16813 Carbon nanotubes are graphene oxide.
>>16814 Graphine Oxide is a compound of carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen. It is possible to make Graphine Oxide by 'cutting open' or 'unzipping' Carbon Nanotubes and in the process reintroducing other elements, and you can use Graphine Oxide in the process of manufacturing Carbon Nanotubes, but one is not the other.
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https://archive.is/eeQhy Russia playing games with European gas supply in lieu of Germany's September elections. Promising to deliver more gas once Nordstream is fully functional and secured. Ukraine is screeching like a harpy because they've been buying Russian gas on credit for the last 20 years and haven't even had the decency to make payments on the debts they've owed. Now that Russia can go around them, Gazprom is showing they're sick and tired of Ukraine's bullshit. Obviously there's a political element but this was bound to happen even without politics.
>>16851 Ukraine has not even bought gas for the last few years, but outright stolen it. They've siphoned off the gas meant for Europe, which went through their country, which in turn sparked the whole Nordstream 2 thing. Hohols are biting the hand that feeds them, and scream murder when said hand stops giving them food. As I see it, Ukraine is a bad, aggressive, untrained and stupid dog. And what do you do with those kinds of dogs? Exactly, you take them out in the backyard and shot them.
>>16854 Guess they have to go back to being a whorehouse and Stalker tourist site.
>>16855 They never stopped being a whorehouse. That is one of the things the rebels did was go after that shit. Turns out drug dealers in that part of the world also traffic people too.
>>16854 Why would Ukraine pay niggers who stole their clay?
>>16886 Ukraine can go suck start a 12giggity. They better be happy that Russia was actually considerate and only took back territory that was inherently russian, instead of eating great and glorious ukraina, with bones and hair, and forcing them to work for their gas, because they certainly could. Ukraine is a scumsucker country full of people who are oh so powerful and heroic and stronk, but as soon as they need to heat their homes, they start stealing gas. Crimea is russian clay, and Ukrainians are dirtbags who went to long without a good crisis that would've shown them to be more humble. (And America should pull their dick out of eastern Europe, before it gets chopped off)
>>16888 The US is an old man on Viagra that hasn't got off in decades.
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>>16886 Because those "niggers" are the ones who drilled it out of the ground, refined it into a usable product, built the infrastructure to transport it in exchange for a fee on the transportation method, and stuck it on the market. Ukraine is the trucker deciding the cargo he's delivering for his company suddenly belongs to him rather than the customer he's contracted to deliver it to, and taking it for himself. Then he screeches like a banshee when the company fires him and hires a different trucker to get the job done. They don't get to have Russian gas without paying for it just as they don't get to have Russian privileges while shitting where they eat. They can figure it out themselves.
>>16890 Still, the old man sticks his dick where one shouldn't even stick his hand. America fucks around in hopes of getting coin out of it, and that's gonna bite em in the ass. I actually hope that a full blown war breaks out, because even in Russia (yes, fucking Russia, the country that beats troons into submission) has accumulated a large amount of trannies and faggots, even in influential positions, because it's become infested with materialism, and the oldfags haven't managed to teach the new generation that money isn't everything, hell even some of the oldtimers have forgotten that fact. Russia needs that war just as much as America, only for different reasons.
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>>16892 Judging from the British Ministry of Defense response to the destroyer incident, the West would rather pussyfoot around because it knows it's too fragile to last a war but has enough boldness to pull pointless gotchas that don't do anything but make nice headlines. Likewise Russia doesn't want to be seen initiating hostilities without a justified reason and so takes it up the ass when shit happens like Turkey shooting down a jet or Armenia being overrun by Azerbaijian, while at Putin's age despite his permanent presidency he has to prepare for retirement with no one to replace him.
>>16893 That's the worst thing about this all.based Putin is someone who can lead Russia successfully, and if he dies before a war breaks out, the probability is high that he gets replaced by a decadent, corrupt, western dick sucking opticsfag, that will surely sell out Russia to the bone. I can only hope that some trip up or a mistake let's all hell break loose and gives Russia a good reason to grind the bongs and the yanks into fertilizer, and plow Europe's ass for taking part in those provocations. Because that's what they do, they're poking the bear, hoping it will make him roar so they can point at him and scream about "muh Russia bad aggressor, special hero league unite!" Everyone just wants to exploit Russia like they exploit Africa, because Africa is slowly gaining confidence, so they need another assboy that they can use as a cumdump and cheap export country for natural resources.
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>>16894 >the probability is high that he gets replaced by a decadent, corrupt, western dick sucking opticsfag Probably a Russian oligarch. Putin is not based, he's just realistic. Russia has its own problems and the grass is not greener. It's just in clown world, being realistic makes you a villain on the international stage, and he's stepped up to the plate when needed.
>>16899 Thanks for correcting, sometimes I pick the wrong words for the right things. Of course a Russian oligarch is the most probable choice, as they hold a lot of power, and a lot of their money and goods are bound offshore, so they are a big target for foreign governments, who will try to use them for gaining influence in Russia. It's a game of slowly poisoning Russia from inside, filling it with decadence and materialism, while poking it from the outside, hopefully to make it burst. And this is what I fear: that this game of patience will actually work, and Russia will slowly collapse like the Soviet Union before it. And I'm not sure if there will be another realist to pull the country out of the shit, up to its feet again. Maybe that will be the end of Russia. But I have hope that even with Russia collapsing, mother nature will find a way to make things right, and turn the worthless pieces of transmeat and all the disgusting products of modern civilization back into useful compost, to let mankind grow strong again. Wasn't there a Vidya game song about this? "..and new life be born beneath the rusted sand.."?
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>>16900 https://yewtu.be/watch?v=2l0RMGid6vo The world has turned, and so many have burned But nobody is to blame Yet staring across this barren, wasted land I feel new life will be born Beneath the bloodstained sands!
>>16902 BENEATH THE BLOODSTAINED SAAAAAAAAAANDS!!! yeah that's the one, thank you anon :^)
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Ukrainian soldiers made to march in high heels during military parade https://archive.is/SF9JZ >Ukraine's defence ministry caused outrage on Friday after it published pictures of female soldiers rehearsing for an upcoming military parade wearing high heels. >In the pictures, the female students of a military college are seen wearing military fatigues and black heeled shoes, which even the cadets themselves admit are impractical. >"Today we are training in high heels for the first time. It is a little more difficult than in combat boots but we are doing our best," Ivanna Medvid told ArmiaInform, the news agency of the ministry. >The images sparked anger online in Ukraine and protests in the country' parliament, >One lawmaker, Inna Souvsoun, said the initiative was "a stupid idea" that embodied "stereotypes on the role of the woman as a pretty doll". >Olena Kondratiouk, deputy speaker of parliament, asked the authorities to apologise publicly for humiliating women who "defend the independence of Ukraine with arms in hand". >Over 30,000 women serve in Ukraine's armed forces, including more than 4,100 officers. More than 13,500 Ukrainian women have fought against pro-Russian separatists in the east of the country since the outbreak of the deadly armed conflict seven years ago. >Earlier this year, a number of Ukrainian female soldiers spoke to Euronews about the difficulties of serving in a male-dominated military, including sexism and misogyny, but also sexual assault. >"There are things that women cannot so easily be allowed to do, like being on the frontline. Not all women are allowed to go there because a lot of men do not like it," one solider, Anastasia, said. >Hanna Hrytsenko, an independent researcher and part of the Invisible Battalion project in Ukraine, which researches women’s role in the military, said that traditional gender roles still exist.” >"People are accustomed to a certain life and don’t see that it needs to change," she said. >Several Ukrainian lawmakers close to Ukraine’s former president Petro Poroshenko showed up in parliament with pairs of shoes and encouraged the defence minister to wear high heels to the parade.
>>16921 If you look closely to the images, you'll notice that they are also women.
>>16891 Would you pay for a bicycle to a nigger who stole your car? Personally i'd just assume that anything that belongs to that nigger is mine for the taking as long as the value of the stuff that i take back doesn't exceed the value of the car that nigger stole from me.
>>16923 Russia didn't steal Crimea. Crimea returned to Russia on it's own. The question about who Crimea belongs to is about 30-40 years old, ever since pro-russian voices grew loud, towards the end of the Soviet era, when repression weakened. The decree of the 19. February 1954, by which the autonomous Crimean SSR was simply connected to the Ukrainian SSR, "on basis of close economical, and cultural ties, and because of geographical proximity", was criticized by the Crimean people since the 1980s, as it was ordered against their will and without their partaking in the decision. I would even accept Crimean independence from both Ukraine and Russia, and anyone else, as long as it's their decision. But as it stands, the Crimean people decided in a referendum, that they want to be a part of the russian federation. And Ukraine wants to have a stranglehold on Crimea, as it allows them to earn shittons of money on tourism without having to do shit, and most importantly, to blackmail Russia using Sewastopol, an important black sea port, used by the russian fleet.
>>16923 >>16927 The territorial dispute is just the result of a series of bad decisions: >Ukraine originally part of the Kievian Rus(sians), they were destroyed by the Mongol hordes >after the decline of the Mongols, nomadic cossack tribes take over the region >Polish expansion and conflict with Russia eventually led to incorporation of the cossack territories into the Russian Empire >Russians develop Sevastopol in Crimea to be their principal naval port on the Black Sea >the Russians fought a war, aptly named the Crimean War with Britain and France (who wanted to prop up the Ottomans to preserve le balance of power because merchants profited off of playing geopolitical tensions) in the 1850s within the region >fast forward to 1917, Bolshevik communists take over and want to accelerate their collective agriculture program >Ukraine had been developed into a breadbasket by this point >Stalin opts to rob the place and also deports the Ukrainian population of Crimea to settle it with Russians and incorporate it into Soviet Russia in the 1930s (it doesn't seem clear if he had a particular reason for doing this, what was written about it mostly appears to accuse him of a pathological dislike of Ukrainians with some hinting at it being revenge for costing him a significant triumph in the Russian Civil War. Keep in mind though, Stalin wasn't even an ethnic Russian - he was a Georgian - when Ukrainians use this to exemplify some eternal Russia hatred against them) >in 1954 Khrushchev wanting to dispose of Stalin's influence following his death as well as having Ukrainian heritage decides to return Crimea to Soviet Ukraine, which is fine strategically as long as both Russia and Ukraine are part of the Soviet Union >in the 1990s the USSR falls and Ukraine in a shock referendum result decides to pursue independence from Russia as a whole >post-Soviet Ukraine has similar problems to the rest of Eastern Europe but started doing alright in the lead up the global financial crisis of 2008 >however they are run by massively corrupt oligarchs who pumped up the economy on a debt bubble in the economic high of the early 2000s > that blows up with 2008, and Ukraine is effectively bankrupt, with the debt primarily owed to Russia >Ukrainian politicians start making appeals to the West to rescue them from Russian "oppression" >shit happens Feel free to point out where this was wrong.
>>16933 I cannot currently find anything wrong with this post. Still, I stand by my point that Crimea is russian. It has formally been a part of the Russian empire since 1783. And I still stand by the point, that Ukrainians should not expect anything nice from Russia, as they have not done anything to deserve it.
>>16933 Crimea was a Tatar Khanate before Slavs appeared there in significant numbers. Before that it was inhabited by Goths. Before even that there was a Greek Kingdom in that island. Before that it most likely had some Scythians or other horse nomad population living there. So I propose to have a deathmatch between all the various peoples who descended from nomadic Eurasian tribes, and the winner should take over Crimea.
>>16936 So, the same thing we did all the time before? I can accept that.
>>16936 >Before that it was inhabited by Goths You mean the Venetians?
>>16983 By Venetians do you mean the Goths? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Goths
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>>16985 I didn't know the goths had such a presence there, interesting and nice to know, but i meant italians and my bad, i confused Venetian merchant enclaves with the Genovese Republic who had control of the area for a century or so before turkroaches zergrushed the place. Knew about that while reading about Cerco's architecture, or Kerch as known nowadays. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gazaria_(Genoese_colonies)
Ukraine giving the British ship commander a medal: https://archive.is/iriGO
>>15421 Why the fuck is there a military base on Svalbard?
>>18209 There is? I thought they only had a coast guard. Source?
>>16934 >It has formally been a part of the Russian empire since 1783. And Russian gave the territory to the German Empire with the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk in 1918. So it is German clay. As is a lot of territory in Eastern Europe that has been taken by the Slavs. If Slavs are actually an ethnic group and not just Germanic people twisted by Judeo-Christianity.
>>18221 >source? The bloody picture I replied to.
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>>18239 You mean to Austria-Hungary.
>>18288 https://yewtu.be/watch?v=Q7ViWagLFkc Austriae est imperare orbi universo!
https://archive.is/cLwg2 tl;dr- >Ukraine has been stealing gas for years >Russia agrees to bypass Ukraine by going through Hungary >Ukraine-Hungary relations soured after they banned using Hungarian in Hungarian schools located in Ukraine >Ukraine cries foul play because their robbery isn't going to be allowed any more >Somehow thinks Germany is going to stop this when Germany only gives a fuck about getting gas
>>19483 Oh don't assume that they only want gas. They want to virtue signal and fuck over Russia, but Gazprom has already told them very clearly that they won't get shit if they don't get the paperwork done. They will have to formally and factually sign the contract to not freeze their asses off. When it comes to either not having gas or not having the Amerikaners approval, even the greenniggers are going to give in eventually. I call violent uprisings in Germany in the next 5 years.
>>14689 >>14704 What is even "slovakia"? Is it an English swear word? Also a reminder that "muh genes" isn't what makes countries countries.
>>15326 >fascists are just as cancerous as communists, so it's like choosing your poison at this point. Both are symptoms of their time's hardships, enforced by kikery and general shittiness of people. This through and through.
>>19501 >What is even "slovakia"? A country the Czechs want no part of. It was the iron wall that forced them together; when it fell, they looked at each other and decided they were separate people. Whether they shared genes or tongues was not one of their considerations. That they were two separate tribes, was the final consideration.
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>>19512 At some point pol or /fascist/ or whatever will unironically claim Hitler was actually Jewish and that failing miserably was all part of his plan for Jewish dominance
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>>19516 ok that got me
>>19505 Solid meme, although overused. Application plain wrong, lurk moar. 2/10
>>19522 No, he's absolutely correct. You should invent a time machine and lurk since 2007.
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>>19536 What was that, Mehmet? I only speak Indo-European...
>>19535 You obviously burn when you open a history book, like a Jewish vampire when he enters a church. So here's some advice: invent it yourself, and go straight back to 1918, to Germany, and lurk for 27 years. Niggerkike.
>>19537 Somehow Turkish "colonization" looks even worse than French colonization.
>>19537 >Implying that Russia isn't a multiethnic nation with a long history of expansion and intermingling of ethnicities. >Furthermore, implying that this isn't the case for other countries. I bet my unshaved ass, that you have at least 3 Abduls, 2 Jamals, and a schlomo somewhere in your lineage. Eat a dick, faggot.
>>19551 >dat mongolmongrel projection >"diversity is our strentgh!" Big oof, Melik!
>>19553 Hasn't every empire in history been more or less multi-ethnic? I'm not implying diversity is good, i'm just aware that is not as cancerous as it's usually implied.
>>19559 It's impossible not to be. The entire point of empires (and later Imperialism) was to send your young, rowdy, criminal, and less-desireable men to the border regions to intermix with the native populace of other ethnic groups in order to slowly incorporate them into your territory. This is why "feudal" lords were historically always seen as less "noble" than those from the capital even if they shared the same rank. This really belongs in the general thread though.
>>19512 Thank you for opening my eyes! God bless muh free markets!
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>>19559 That's the case, but your average NEETsoc will go heaven and earth to prove that it was PURE RACES that built empires and not spiritual and warrior elites beating the inferior commoners - who they just happened to share an official language or forced on them - in shape until they either conquered and rose through the ranks in glory or died trying.
>>19605 eh at least they have their hole to circlejerk in all day long.
>>19605 >mutty butthurts at nazi on the internet again Learn to type like a normal person first dude, you sound really mad.
>>19553 >Implying Racial ideologies belong in the trash. Selecting the best woman for breeding superior warriors has been the Meta since the beginning of time. No go have fun with your white Berta, who got fucked by Jerome fifty times before you even met her.
>>19537 >>19553 >Russians >Mudslimes Projection in its purest form. Seethe, euronigger
What the fuck is going on in Ukraine? Is Western hegemony about to collapse? First documents were linked showing Zelensky is storing his funds off-shore, then their head government banker was getting arrested for assault charges for getting angry at corruption accusations from journalists. Now the speaker of their parliament/congress is being ousted?
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>>19681 It has been collapsing for about 10 years by now. Don't believe the quick collapse fags, it's going to stretch for another 5-10 years, if Americaca doesn't start a war before that, to save it's filthy ass. But I guess Ching Chong central will be into supah powah even sooner, 2023 probably. I don't know if the ruskies will collab- I mean cooperate with the chinks, or if we will see another move like in the 1960s, where yelloland said "you talk with amerikan! You bad! Shoo!", But I'm inclined to believe that Europe will unexpectedly (or rather very expectedly, considering all the infrastructure projects and Chinese investment ) side with the bud light® bugmen, while being rectally inserted with bear Benis, because gas is better than keklectricity. Ukraine only wanted innaEurope, because they hoped for le protection from le big bad Ivan. Unfortunately for them, Papa Bear noticed his gas not getting to Germania, so he simply closed the gasvalve, and fuckraine started to scream like a gypsy woman accused of stealing, and was ready to bend over backwards and take every dick in the world that was willing to put pressure on bad butin. Again, unfortunately for them, Putin is based in reality, not in Feeling, so he told them to fuck off, and just shrugged off the western sanctions (which, funnily enough, harmed Eugrope more than mommy Crusshia). We're living in interra- interesting times, that's for sure. If I'm lucky, I get the chance to die in a war before I'm 25. That'd be nice, better than worrying about student loans.
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>>19605 What are you even ranting about? >>19617 Pic related.
>>19685 >If I'm lucky, I get the chance to die in a war before I'm 25. I'm almost 25 myself. Where the hell is the war I was promised.
>>19689 >>19686 27 here, still waiting for my promised war-by-25.
>>19690 >>19689 >>19685 I can't go to war thanks to my aspergens.
>>19696 Dont worry mr. aspie, once the surge hits it suddenly wont be a problem anymore.
>>19690 >i'm so entitled take some fucking initiative, go start one kids these days
>>19686 >Implying >Answers with another implication Nice try, fag, but calling everyone who doesn't agree with your amerikike ideology amerimutts is quite ironic.
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Apparently the war factions aren't taking the lack of fighting so good and are getting pissed off at Trudeau Zelensky. Nationalists protest peace deal on separatist areas https://archive.is/vkQsI >About 5,000 Ukrainian nationalists marched across the capital Kyiv Thursday to demand the repudiation of peace agreements for eastern Ukraine that promised a broad autonomy to the separatist regions. >Demonstrators also denounced Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s efforts to secure a lasting cease-fire along the tense line of contact in the conflict with Russia-backed separatists. >A 2015 peace deal signed in Minsk has helped end large-scale fighting, but frequent skirmishes have continued and efforts to achieve a political settlement have failed. >The peace accord that was brokered by France and Germany envisaged a broad autonomy for the separatist regions, but that provision was rejected by many in Ukraine Kyiv and its implementation has stalled. >The organizers of Thursday’s march urged the Ukrainian government to renounce what they described as “anti-state agreements” and formally outlaw holding elections in “the temporarily occupied territories.” >They also assailed Zelenskyy’s efforts to end skirmishes across the line of contact as a betrayal of national interests. >Earlier this year, a spike in clashes in the conflict area and a buildup of Russian troops across the border fueled fears of a renewal of full-scale hostilities. >Zelenskyy on Thursday traveled to the conflict area. Speaking to military cadets, he emphasized the importance of reaching a peaceful settlement.
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>>19806 How DARE you, not send my brother to die against the ruskies!
>>19806 Ukrainians are the dumbest white people.
>>20020 >implying russians aren't white
>>20035 Banush covered hands typed this.
https://archive.md/bXJbF It seems Ukraine has started using Turkish drones to level the playing field. Waiting to see how the separatists respond. Drones are new technology that works well against conventional weaponry, but I'm more convinced that's a result of countries honoring international arms agreements and nobody having to make a proper defense against them. I give it a decade at most before anti-drone countermeasures hit the market. Also I didn't know the drone company was owned by Erdogan's daughter. The more you know I guess.
>>20078 Forgot the video
Found an article talking about the politics. Russia is saying Ukraine violated the ceasefire agreement by using drones. Ukraine is claiming the artillery had been used and that they were responding in turn. Nothing will come of it (probably).
>>20078 Strelok, 'merican companies already offering both a laser and a mictowave, and there was that chink SPAA with a 25mm rotary cannon specifically advertised as an anti-drone weapon. I'm not saying that any of them works, but we are seeing capitalism hard at work to deliver new weapon systems against new threats.
>>20081 Yes. If you haven't noticed, American companies aren't exactly allowed to sell their weapons systems to Russian-aligned/backed or Russian-neutral countries.
>>20078 >>20079 Would be fun if eastern ukrainians decided to fuck western ukrainian electricity infrastructure up with drones in response.
>>20090 Dronebombing NPP's when?
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>>20078 Drones, just like ATGMs, are simply enjoying a temporary success period. Countries haven't developed serious countermeasures yet, so these weapons have nothing to threaten them. ATGMs were supposedly going to "make tanks obsolete". Many, MANY retards truly believed this. And yet, a couple years later, countries developed modular armor strong enough to stop any RPG munition plus some smaller ATGMs. Then they made active protection systems that completely defeat any known ATGM, including tandem warheads. Ask yourselves, why are drones so effective right now? Because they are cheaper than the missiles fired at them by big, expensive AA systems. And these systems, because of their big cost, usually are not deployed in the front lines. These systems are also designed to take out threats from a very high altitude. They were made for jets and bombers, not drones. They also require additional radars in order to function at their maximum ability. Drones are currently so successful because SPAAGs were replaced by big missile AA systems. They were replaced by those systems because they couldn't keep up with jets. But now drones have entered the battlefield, and these drones are effectively no different than a WWII tier turboprop aircraft armed with guided missiles. An SPAAG would shoot the shit out of one. But there are no SPAAGs, at least not any new ones. SPAAGs will return, this time armed with big fucking radars, heavy APS to counter guided missiles and lots of ammo. Drones will lose their main advantage: Cost. A drones is not as cheap as you think, especially the missiles it carries. These not-so-cheap drones will start getting shredded by piss-cheap 20mm rounds very soon. >Hurr, in some mudistan shithole, a drone blew up russian SPAAGs! Of course, these are manned by retards and most of the time they didn't even have their radars active. Also all current SPAAGs are meant to defeat choppers, not drones. But soon this will change.
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>>20085 You should look up South Korea to see how wrong you are. Also, they seem to have a desire to put 57mm autocannons on everything that doesn't already have a bigger gun, and drones only increased that.
>>20110 >SK South Korea, India, and Turkey are general exceptions to the rule because they hold strategic positions that can play multiple sides since nobody can hold them accountable (without risking them defecting to the enemy). >>20109 It's going to be fun watching old technologies come back because other countries are using economical solutions to tackle offensive problems. Everyone knows China/America spend so much on their offensive weapons systems capabilities at the expense of everything else, that it's not even cost-effective to use them most of the time.
https://tass.com/economy/1355803 >Russia halts steam coal supplies to Ukraine to meet internal needs Either it's intentional or they are really hurting. Probably both.
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>>20109 >big fucking radars Wouldn't a bunch of IRST cameras do the job just as well on the lower end?
>>20119 >IRST Depending on drone altitude ceiling, maybe. The more intresting one is is the chinese SPAAG I posted about earlier on /k/. Seems like some people are claiming it has a semi-HARM like function. Make sense if its a drone? Searches for raidio signal and homes in.
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>>20134 Is current AI/swarm networking tech advanced enough to allow the replacement/upgrade of current cluster munition bomblets into drones capable of flying a short distance in a straight line while executing pre-planned attacks? If it is good enough and the additional strike range gained by reducing the amount of bomblets carried still makes it worthwhile would the US hesitate adopting such cluster munitions if someone found out that proper pre-set planning and target identification can severely reduce the amount of collateral damage?
https://archive.md/oOKLz >90k troops on the border (nothing unusual) >Ukraine has bern siphoning defense spending into everything but during an ongoing civil war >Fires defense minister while making it look like a resignation With Ukraine becoming increasingly anti-Russian instead of pro-Ukraine, do you think the next guy who comes in will get shit done or it will just be more corruption like usual? I feel like Ukraine or Belarus is going to be the official (hot) start of WWIV WWIII. Like something in my gut is telling me Ukraine is going to start shit and then that will give Russia an excuse to not fight China. >>20148 Cluster munitions are probably coming back either way. What you are suggesting is easy and hard. It's easy to program drones to fly like birds (not bump into each other) and it's easy to program from point A to point B, but it is difficult to program almost everything else such as evasive maneuvers.
>>20204 Doesn't Russia parking the tanks on the border already cause chaos for them having to respond with limited resources like the Chinese performing constant violations of Taiwan's airspace?
>>20204 >[...]the next guy who comes in will get shit done[...]? Ukraine is a puppet, serving the interests of the usual suspects. There will be not a single positive thing coming out of ukraine, as long as it serves foreign interests. Little fun fact: The ukrainians are fleeing to the west, and are now to poles, what poles are to germans: gastarbeiters, who steal their work and dump their wages and living standards. Stay tuned for the continued global warming of international relations!
>>20204 >With Ukraine becoming increasingly anti-Russian instead of pro-Ukraine, A distinction without a difference. All the Russians' neighbors have always hated them. Russians pretend not to understand why anyone would be upset over centuries of invasion, looting, and rape. It is much, much older than the USSR for which Russian millenials who never had to wait sixteen hours in line for toilet paper or fear that a joke could result in getting disappeared by the KGB feel such nostalgia.
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>>20205 It would if not for the fact that Ukraine and Russia are just playing games (deadly games, but still games). While Taiwan has an ambiguous policy of fighting back if they get international support, the Ukrainian policy more or less amounts to "Russia won't ever attack us because it would fuck up trade with Europe, and if they do, NATO will save us" under Zelensky. It's part of what's fueling the war in the South-Eastern half, and part of why Russia wants to use Nordstream 2 as leverage against Western powers. Also Ukrainians are culturally and linguistically much closer to Russia than Taiwan is to China, so it makes it makes both sides less likely to just go full hot war. >>20207 >Ukraine is a puppet, serving the interests of the usual suspects. What I meant was that Ukraine has a dilapidated military, failing infrastructure, and laws that prevent their few good points (agriculture, mining) from being used to generate real "we can afford shit for our military" kind of revenue. The old defense minister more or less sat on his ass playing good cop to Zelensky's bad cop with Russia. Considering how Zelensky is installing his American-friendly puppet government and purging anyone who so much as looks at him wrong, I can only see a hardliner being put in. I'm curious if the hardliner will be equally corrupt or will accidentally spur nationalist sentiment among Ukrainians to get a hot war going on accident. >Ukrainians are the new Poles Not surprising. Their industry consisted of mining, machining, and agriculture. Ukraine's western government is green-inclusive, lost all the machining jobs to China and other European countries, and can't use the farmable land they do have. I'd get the fuck out of Ukraine too. >>20208 Russians are effectively the mafia. They aren't good but they are predictable to a T. Eastern Europeans as a whole are less bad than Russians, but they are also far less predictable (unless they're Polish or Hungarian). I feel bad for the Eastern European nations getting pulled into this shit show, but Ukraine is little better than Belarus other than flying a rainbow flag instead of a hammer and sickle so it's hard to put the blame solely on the Russians in this conflict. Especially since Ukraine was de facto Russia until the 1920s, was completely subservient to Russia until WWII, and quickly fell in line after the war, with Crimea being a concession to appease the (already corrupt) Ukrainian officials of the 50s. I believe all peoples have a right to self-sovereignty so I will usually side with the group that wants to split off from the main body. In this cause, the autonomous ethnically Russian regions of Eastern Ukraine.
>>20211 >than Taiwan is to China The Taiwanese literally call themselves the Republic of China and if what Chang said in the Asia thread is accurate they've been intermarrying back into Mainland China in recent decades.
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https://archive.md/pzNAP Turkish ‘drone killer’ takes first flight >Unique anti-drone product able to fly to altitudes of 5,000 meters >A new Turkish defense product known as the "drone killer" has successfully completed its first flight. >The drone killer known as Fedai was developed for neutralizing combat drones and unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). >It is being showcased as part of SAHA Expo, a major Turkish defense event which began on Wednesday in Istanbul. >The four-day expo is showcasing Turkish defense products including UAVs, weapons, radar systems, and land and naval vehicles. >Guray Ali Canli, the head of the firm Transvaro, which makes Fedai, said it took its first flight this October. >He stressed that there is a strong foreign demand for the product and that they are preparing to meet this demand. >The first 10 specimens of the carbon-made drone-killer were manufactured through mass production, he said. >The firm prepared a five-vehicle concept for the product, including one vehicle for the control system, other one for radar, thermal camera, and jammer, and three vehicles for multi-launchers. >The firm developed two types of the product, Fedai 101 and Fedai 102, the latter – created at the request of a Southeast Asian country – able to fly at an altitude of 5,000 meters (16,400 feet). >The 102 is longer and heavier than the 101 but has more flight time capacity and explosive material, he said. >In fact, customers see Fedai as a low-altitude air defense system, not just a drone-killer, he said. >He also stressed that the product is equipped with a camera, lidar, and thermal camera. >“It’s 100% carbon, a feature that’s unique in the world,” he added. >Canli explained that the anti-drone can currently be launched from multi-launcher and launcher tubes and that they are working on a shoulder-launched version which does not require a radar system for short-range operations. >Fedai will soon be one of the Turkish defense industry’s most important export products, he said. >Canli also said that first deliveries of Fedai are expected early next year, January and February. >He stressed that the firm not only sells Fedai but also a complete system including radar, thermal cameras, jammers, and other unites. >On the global shortage of semiconductors, he said this situation along with rising raw material prices are causing problems for his firm. >The firm also established a radar manufacturer facility in central Turkey which will be operational as of January, he added. >In recent years, Turkey has become a rising star in the global defense and aviation industry. >Especially in aviation and UAVs, Turkey has several companies and brands such as Baykar and TAI which produce aerial vehicles using mostly local resources. Contract for UAV sales have been signed with countries such as NATO member Poland. Now all that's left to make Ace Combat 7 real would be an airship carrying such fresh fruits maybe this is part of Bezos' master plan with his Amazon cargo airships, albeit in an anti-partisan role with plausible deniability.
>>20211 >Eastern Europeans as a whole are less bad than Russians, but they are also far less predictable (unless they're Polish or Hungarian). Why are Poles and Hungarians more predictable, and how do they normally behave?
>>20211 >Russians are effectively the mafia. Please elaborate. If it is about Russia trying to sell gas to Europe, that shit's been going on for decades. Europe has made itself dependent. Euros can buy American gas if they like, but they don't wanna. Still they want to spit and scream at Russia for homophobia and "dictatorship". I really hope Putin just drops the northstream 2, so the Germans and bongs will freeze to death by the thousands (and by God, I live in Germany, but I can keep warm without central heating and get my food without going to the supermarket. >I believe all peoples have a right to self-sovereignty so I will usually side with the group that wants to split off from the main body. This is a good viewpoint, but not seen often. Unfortunately, hohols will scream bloody murder and continue sucking American dick for support. And if it really blows, I think we'll see another proxy world war, where America supports, and others wage war. Probably Ukraine Vs Russia, then Europe Vs Russia, Russia will get its former satellite states like Kazakhstan in the boat, and then it'll be a real shitfest.
>>20402 They are globalists without globalism so they are easy to predict. Hungarians/Poles are pro-working with everyone and anyone regardless of cultural difference until that other culture wants to impose non-economic ideas on them at which point they become full Nationalist in policy. It's not that other Eastern Europeans won't do this to a lesser extent, but they usually they have other localized social values that override the above.
>>20403 >Please elaborate A mafia first and foremost protects its clientele and makes sure they have a viable business model in order to stay in business themselves. When there is no competition, they tend to extort their clientele. When there is competition, they tend to try and provide a better service, or at least one that makes them prefer them over the rival factions. If you give a mafia a standard operating range and tell them you'll kick their shit in if they leave it, they will usually be satisfied with that arrangement. When you actively encroach on a mafia's territory after making those boundaries, a gang war erupts. Russia is the mafia and Ukraine was one of the primary clientele. America encroached via NATO so Russia started a gang war via gas supply and Ukraine (their main client who was considering paying a different gang to provide a protection racket). Mafias have to be kept in check to some degree, but are ultimately very predictable in how they respond if you over-encroach on their territory or act weak giving them an excuse to expand. When you treat Russia's government as a mafia, most of their policies begin to make sense and they become extremely predictable. Russia is no longer the USSR. It would be better for America to set up boundaries with them instead of trying to turn all of Eastern Europe into a war zone as soon as the Americas are distracted by China. Unironically Trump was working on this (even if he fucked up elsewhere) which is why he avoided the Ukraine question fast and hard. The reason the Democrats want Russia as a boogeyman is because the Cold War mentality Boomers among the conservatives are dying and the younger generations of conservatives want to restore "Tsarist Russian" style diplomatic relations. America and Russia don't need to be enemies any more and all of Europe would be more stable if they cut that shit out. They just need to respect each other's boundaries and agreements. From what I understand the younger generations of Russians as well consider America a threat because America won't fuck off, not because of cold war sentimentality. I mean there's still the Japanese issue but that's minor compared to the shit on the Western half of Russia.
>>20406 that makes sense. I always saw that exactly how a normal country/state/kingdom should operate, as it provides stability, it is the most beneficial for both ruler and ruled in the same country, and it is even morally right. I guess mafias are pretty good guys after all.
>>20408 I mean countries are just large-scale organized crime so you aren't wrong.
>>20411 >I mean societies are just large-scale organized crime so you aren't wrong. Fix that for you, strelok. Looks like BBC and the other typical sources are drumming up the whole "Russia gonna invade Ukraine!!! NATO FUNDING REEEE!" narrative >>20406 >US-Russian relations reset Absent a proper war with someone China/India/EU which the US has a chance of loosing, I doubt it. Congress, has in is ever-lasting vanity, decided to have all but in name written itself as Caligula. The founding fathers killed gods upon an altar of science, and raised from its corpses a homunculus of divinity steeped in an amalgamation of men. LBJ has vanquished the bastard of men upon an altar of welfare, and replaced it with the state. Mark Zuckerberg has killed the state on an altar of vanity and public opinon, and raised a festering mechanical abomination ruled by an Sillicon ring of oligarchs. God may have mercy, but he is dead.
>>20412 You're right that I misspoke, but I meant to say governments, not societies. You can have one, both, or neither, in no particular combination.
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How a Dispute Over Groceries Led to Artillery Strikes in Ukraine https://archive.md/QfU10 Not gonna post the fluff but I mentioned it in the /k/anteen so it deserves proper acknowledgement. tl;dr- >Hranitne (Гранітне) has a several-km-wide no-man's-land gap >Runs through separating the commercial part of the town from the residential part >Few hundred people live in no-man's-land >No fighting so it's fine >Separatists close down the only vehicular bridge connecting the two halves because of COVID >Civilians allowed across but only by foot on a footbridge >"Mayor" of the Ukrainian side gets pissed off >Decides to whip out his dick and send a contingent of soldiers across the bridge to lay down the foundation for a new vehicular bridge 700 meters away from the footbridge >Separatists get pissed and start artillery shelling the position to destroy the new bridge's foundation >Whether intentional or just poor shots, they miss >Repeatedly >Several houses and farms fucked up, 1 Ukraine soldier dead, no civilian casualties >Bridge completely safe >Mayor orders a drone strike to take out the artillery in retribution >Separatists tell their side abd explain that they thought the mayor was trying to unload military equipment across the river in their territory >When questioned by his own side, mayor backtracks and admits he might have forgotten to mention he sent enemy soldiers into enemy territory to secure the perimeter >Now nobody can get groceries because tensions are high >And there's a Russian fleet of tanks on Ukraine's border that might actually be serious for once because Putin is waving his dick around in response Let it be remembered that if Russia actually does invade Ukraine (unlikely), it was done over the inconvenience of having to walk a few kilometers to buy eggs and milk while living in a warzone. Pics related. The footbridge, the grocery store, and one of the houses hit. Apparently Western Ukraine is now building an underground military bunker in response to the shelling and erecting concrete triangles along the major roadways.
>>20494 Balkan-tier
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In other news, the Western media is in an uproar that Putin won't allow Russia to be on the backburner while dealing with China. Maybe instead of throwing a temper tantrum over Russia when they've shat on them for the last year, America should work to normalize working relations with the Russians to avoid further conflict the way Biden did while sucking Xi's cock over video call the other day.
>>14576 hohol is not a real country lol
>>20534 Funny, how in the modern world, the realist who wants his fellow countrymen to be okay is a bad dictator, and the cabal of powerhungry career politicians are good, righteous humanitarians. I wish there would be something to speed up the fall of yurop. Is this a battle of Patience? Or is sabotage a viable option for bringing down the current regime?
>>20537 Knock the electric ghost out and watch norms become foaming at the mouth rabid dogs.
>>20494 >Mayor orders a drone strike MAJOR orders a dronestrike. The mayor only ordered the retarded bridge.
>>20543 The article explicitly said the mayor ordered it.
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>>20544 It really doesn't.
>>20545 I concede I misread the article.
For the anon wondering why Eastern Ukraine doesn't stop coal exports to Western Ukraine, they already did stop. https://archive.md/Cbnoa >“Blackouts can only scare those who have disabled logic and critical thinking,” President Zelenskiy assured > “It’s better not to watch them at all – it saves [your] nerves and electricity,” He's not wrong but he's also an idiot puppet.
Also Foreign Policy did an article explaining why Russia won't invade Ukraine proper using the Georgia invasion and Crimea occupation as general examples. https://archive.md/x3IyY
https://archive.ph/M1Gyo >Germany and France set up peace talks with Russia over Donbass >Russia says their foreign minister is busy that day months in advance and they need to reschedule (whether true or not doesn't matter) >Germany and France go to the news media to publicize Russia not starting peace talks >Russia releases the classified documents showing they told Germany and France they couldn't attend that day long in advance >Germany and France cry foul play for releasing classified documents >Merkel is the only one trying to get peace talks arranged and telling France to shut the fuck up about the leaked documents ironically enough This really is clown world when Merkel is the only one who seems to give a shit.
>>20659 this is only clown world if you forget about the fact, that german politicians will get their collective asses fucked sideways with rusty rebar, if they don't get their shit together and appease russia so they can get the gas deal back on track. The german academics and some super-cucked politicians may act cool and proud, and reject russia because "muh bad dicktator", but the ones who are backed by german companies, whose livelihood (and even their lives) depend on getting the gas, won't fuck around and find out, they will give german companies what they want: high quality russian gas, cheap, clean and uncompressed, shipped through the pipe, right to their doorstep. If Merkel fails to do that, she will absolutely, 100%, lose everything and be left to rot in a ditch.
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>>20662 I understand that fact but it's still clown world that she even has to fight a bunch of academics and clueless politicians to secure basic supplies for Germany. It would be like Xi sucking Biden's dick to get soybean and corn imports for China (likely but not yet). Speaking of, has the US done anything about their self-created fertilizer shortage or is the world about to start sucking Brazil's dick for agriculture products next Summer?
>>20663 >Produce from Brazil I wouldn't know, I grow my own food. Harvested quite a lot of good apples this year, and already pickled my veggies and some sauerkraut. I'll build a bow next year, in order to poach (because getting a loicense here is fucking unrealistic, and getting a place to hunt is completely out of the question, if you're not childhood Friends with a hunter or working for the government.
>>20663 India doesn't export food? it's one of the few countries where agriculture makes up more than 50% of the workforce
>>20691 I'm not sure if they do or not, but if 50% of the population still works in agriculture, then the overwhelming majority of them are dirtfarmers with very little to sell to the market, compared to a highly efficient first world agricultural business.
>>20691 Much like China, most of India, outside the major cities, lives in the fucking dark ages. There's a reason they start worshiping porcelain toilets when they see one. This includes their agricultural techniques. Forget deep-soil ploughing, forget chemical fertilizers, forget pesticide sprays, forget efficient seed distribution. They're working with animal-pulled ploughs (wooden, if they're particularly unlucky), and the very richest of them may have a tractor from WW1.
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>>20693 Fuck, posted too early. Here's a short paper bemoaning the fact that some pajeets still can't into crop rotation in 2021.
>>20693 Doesn't this ironically mean they would do well if SHTF?
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>>20691 It took a global pandemic for India to break into the top 10 agricultural exporters (by value), and that's only because cotton falls under agricultural export. They still fall behind Mexico for goods exported. It's hard to get by volume estimates because several countries consider that part of national defense. By value is a shit measurement since it would mean the Netherlands is the second largest agricultural exporter in the world (they are not) due to the flower, nightshade (tomato), and pepper trade, even though they contribute almost no major grains to the world market. India's major exports are cotton, rice, soybeans, and beef (because water buffalo can be sold as carabeef). India as a whole produces a fuck ton of other grains by volume (they are the world's largest producer of millet, and second largest producer of lentils and wheat), however India imports almost as much as they export, so their export of grain is abysmal. Due to how much food they import at the same time they are exporting, they only make up about 3% of world exports after subtracting imports of the same products. India is a large country and thus it is sometimes cheaper to export to neighbors on one side of the country while importing from neighbors on the other side, rather than risk the poo trains.
>>20696 The rural regions would be. The cities would starve. The issue is that the urbanites would flee to the rural regions in the event of SHTF. Also keep in mind most Indians are farmers by necessity because they can't get a job working in a city and have to eat.
>>20698 Yeah that's what I meant, since they're so backward they aren't reliant on industrial supply chains. >>20697 Today I found out pajeets can eat buffalo meat but not beef, despite both being bovines.
>>20700 >Today I found out pajeets can eat buffalo meat but not beef, despite both being bovines. It's more a matter of it being illegal to eat beef due to religious significance but not illegal to eat water buffalo. Hinduism's core tenant is that you must never cause suffering for another living thing. In an ideal Hindu world, predators are basically expected to just magically disappear and everyone gets along with the cows and orangutans and sheep, etc. It's why India has the largest vegetarian population in the world, due to religious doctrine. Cows are one of the most sacred animals since one of their gods milked a divine cow in order to make the lands fertile for people to farm. While old Hinduism didn't take it to these extremes (you were in fact expected to eat beef at a funeral, for instance), new-age Hinduism cranks up the vegetarian pacifist undertones to 11 and so almost all of India's regions (except the North-Eastern ones that honor the old traditions and the Muslim regions) ban the slaughter of cows.
>>20710 And then there's the other religions or sects that take it even further. I knew one Indian guy who couldn't even eat root or bulb vegetables like onion, since it required killing the plant. No idea if he was a sect of Hindu or something like a Jain.
>>20716 Don't the Jains sweep the ground before them as they walk so they don't accidentally step on bugs?
>>20710 > India has the largest vegetarian population in the world Also the 2nd most diabetic population in the world (The chinks being #1, but it's expected that the poos will take their place by the 2040s). Wow, it's almost as if carbs are cancer and the only reason the human body can digest them is in case of emergency (starvation, winter)
>>20829 >Wow, it's almost as if carbs are cancer and the only reason the human body can digest them is in case of emergency (starvation, winter) Complex carbs maybe, but even then it's usually an issue of gluten, not carbohydrates. The issue is that cheap foods are mostly carbohydrates, not that stupid people eat mainly carbohydrates.
The media was really pushing hard for war today. I saw a bunch of news stories, interviews with western hohols, and so on talking about how Russian invasion was imminent.
>>20852 >Today They've been at it for the last two weeks.
Actually the coal mine story catches my interest. Usually the west doesn't give a shit about Russian affairs, so why are they mentioning this coal mine accident in the same breath they are discussing this alleged coup? Makes me think the glowniggers had something to do with that mine collapse.
I'm having trouble finding the video outside of The Daily Beast, but why is Tucker Carlson the only one who seems to give a shit about the fact that Ukraine is this generation's Vietnam? We have no business in Ukraine. The Cold War is over. Holy shit. https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-asks-why-would-we-take-ukraines-side-and-not-russias https://archive.md/RQcM9 Direct link because the 9 minute video is worth watching. Tucker shits on Mike Turner (Ohio house member) for several minutes. Turner has to keep backtracking and basically ends up calling Tucker a retard for asking why Americans are supposed to give a rat's ass about Ukraine.
>>20858 >The Cold War is over. Holy shit. Got to recreate the Cold War to make people forget of issues at home. But this isn't new. America has wanted Russia to be the bad guy for years now and has spurned every chance for cooperation if it means more opportunity to increase a defense budget because otherwise the evil ruskies will come. Of course now China is thrown in too for good measure.
>cold war = geopolitical tension are we not geopolitically tense right now still? lol
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look, a face with bright orange pink skin
>>20862 what did he mean by this...?
>>20834 Carbs were always the issue, not just gluten. The body can digest them if in an emergency, but we're not meant to use glucose as our main source of fuel. The FDA however wants you to stop eating meat and go full veghomo.
>>20829 >Wow, it's almost as if carbs are cancer and the only reason the human body can digest them is in case of emergency What a retard take. Human diets have been primarily plant based forever. Do you really think that 1000 years ago your peasant ancestors had the luxury of eating even half as much meat or fat as you do? It was always grain and legumes since agriculture.
>>20663 what does brazil have to do with fertilizer production? I've read about the US fertilizer shortage but I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the methods of production.
So is it going down? The Russian troops on the border were enough cause for concern to prompt a statement from Bidet (not that anyone will think it holds any substance following the disaster in Afghanistan).
>>21073 It's normal Democrat tactics of asking the same question over and over again when the opposition doesn't give you the answer you want. The Russians have said repeatedly that they don't want a war, they're just putting pressure on Biden because he keeps trying to ignore Russia's hot button issues. The Biden administration keeps insisting Russia is preparing for war despite Russia repeatedly saying the exact same thing they have been for a month now ("we don't want war, but you have to respect our territorial integrity and back the fuck off"). They are insisting that Russia will start a war in January. Russia is insisting they're just putting political/military pressure on Washington to back the fuck off. Russia doesn't want a war with Ukraine because Ukraine is polarized. I could see them pulling a Georgia (taking Eastern Ukraine in a blitz, going into Kiev or near Kiev in short order, then backing off in exchange for recognition of Eastern Ukraine as an autonomous region since they know they can't hold Kiev). I don't see them starting a full-fledged war though.
Keep in mind the issue is that Kiev is ass-ravaged about the fact that the only way they can legally reconcile with Eastern Ukraine is to let them have fair and open elections at which point Eastern Ukraine will vote in a pro-Russian or far-right politician to represent them. The entire reason Western Ukraine refuses to reconcile with Eastern Ukraine is because they don't want a competing political bloc in Kiev.
>>20877 Most people living today aren't descendant from peasants.
>>20899 Not sure what they mean by that either, but Brazil has a massive livestock herd which means a lot of manure. Don't know about their chemical fertilizer production. >>21098 So what would the average heritage be? It sure as shit isn't nobles. 90% of the population were farmers and peasants.
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>>21102 >So what would the average heritage be? Hunter Gatherers. Mammoths, Dodo birds, Elk, Milk, fruits, and berries were the diet.
>>21102 >So what would the average heritage be? It sure as shit isn't nobles. 90% of the population were farmers and peasants. 90% of the population were peasants, but what was their fertility like? The upper classes had upwards to 8x the number of children compared to their subjects with many unknown bastards. Being a simple farmer in pre-industrial revolution times wasn't stable enough to allow for many surviving heirs, thus slowly their last names were replaced by people moving down the hierachy. Shopkeepers had it a little bit easier, that's why the two most common English last names are referencing to their trade, Smith and Taylor.
>>21103 For the Finngolian horde maybe.
>>21109 Look at the anthropological history of the dodo bird. Your ancestors did not Farm, they hunt. It was only the last couple of millennia did we start farming, drop down in the tropic level and losing our teeth, have underdeveloped bones, and overall worst nutritional health.
>>21110 They also ate organs more than muscle. If Americans went back to hunter-gatherer the deer population would go extinct in a matter of days and humans wouldn't be far behind.
>>21113 Society should compromise and accept steppe nomad ascendancy.
>>21108 >that's why the two most common English last names are referencing to their trade, Smith and Taylor. The common theory is this is because blacksmiths weren't fighting on the battlefield and less family tree pruning during wars.
>>21088 tbh the logical solution is to split east/west ukraine into two nations, but this is not useful for anyone in power so..
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>>21084 >Russia doesn't want a war with Ukraine >taking Eastern Ukraine in a blitz, going into Kiev or near Kiev in short order >Eastern Ukraine as an autonomous region >I don't see them starting a full-fledged war though. pic related
>>21162 Can Putin beat his Georgia speedrun in the Ukraine?
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>>21162 It comes down to what you view as a war. When I say war I'm talking about the kind of war that lasts several years and involves ideologically dug-in opposing sides trying to exert their will on each other. You can't call it a "war" when the side that is being defended welcomes in the invaders with open arms. Let me break it down for anon: >Putin wants to maintain the status quo >Status quo sees Eastern Ukraine actively opposing NATO while being willing to reconcile in exchange for concessions Not joining NATO on a national level, and being allowed free and fair elections to declare themselves an autonomous region, like they de facto are right now. >Western Ukraine won't have any of that because they are bought by the West and everyone knows it >The West gives them better economic opportunities at various social costs that Western Ukrainians are willing to pay for now >Russia offers stability and those social benefits, but at the cost of economic opportunities >Putin is betting on the West collapsing in the next decade and making Western Ukrainians come back willingly >"The West" (minus Germany) is also betting on themselves collapsing in the next decade and want to secure security guarantees to limit Russian power grabs (prevent Russian economic bullying) because they think the collapse is temporary and not permanent >Thus, the West has ramped up military pressure in the region and is looking for an out to take Eastern Ukraine by force >Except they signed agreements saying they can't >Western propaganda in Eastern Ukraine isn't working because most of the jobs (manufacturing) were in Eastern Ukraine and the West's war is preventing recovery >Letting them have free and open elections works against Western interests >Thus Western forces have been operating from the shadows much like Russia has in Eastern Ukraine >Thus Western forces have become increasingly, almost violently anti-Russian in sentiment >If Russia invades all of Ukraine, they have to deal with this violent sentiment >Russia knows everything west of Kiev is lost already and doesn't want to fight that war >They also don't want NATO on their doorstep when NATO collapses in a decade since it will prevent them from economically bullying Western Europe >Thus they will probably roll their way to Kiev, make damned sure their soldiers are on their best behavior while in foreign lands as a show of power/force, and then roll back to a land bridge between Crimea and Eastern Ukraine >This will force Ukraine out of the Sea of Azov, strengthen unsettled disputes between Russia and Georgia due to (now justified) Russian naval presence, and make Ukraine/America/Britain's only excuse for being in the Eastern Black Sea trade with Turkey/Georgia (E.G. no military ships doing drills on Russia's doorsteps) While this has absolutely no bearing on the average person in Western Europe/America, this is unacceptable to status quo elites in DC/London/Brussels since it denies them the ability to pressure Russia with naval force and basically leaves Georgia at the defense whims of Turkey (who will probably help them anyways to spite Russia). If Russia takes this territory, they can't guarantee the economic recovery they have been promising Western Ukraine, and then the whole house of cards on the Eastern front comes tumbling down. I think this is a good thing for geo-political stability of the region even if it cedes territory to the Russian Elite. Western Elites don't because it is basically admitting weakness which will have a domino effect in unrelated parts of the world. ESPECIALLY after the fall of Afghanistan. Again, I don't consider this a war scenario, I consider it a skirmish scenario where Russia steamrolls through Eastern Ukraine mostly unhindered after wiping out initial pseudo-NATO troops and then cedes back parts of it as concessions to ensure economic stability for their oligarchs. I don't mention Belarus in most of this because Northern Ukrainians are much more polarized. Third pic related to help visualize the issue since in an "ideal Russian scenario" they want the river as the new border between them. They probably won't get it, but they will almost certainly get their land bridge to Crimea.
As for why Russia is pushing the "legally binding" and "written agreement" clauses, it is because during the Cold War many of the promises the Soviets made were never honored by NATO. The failing USSR would make agreements to withdraw X or Y in exchange for NATO withdrawing Z, they would follow their end of the bargain, and NATO would expand into their territory, and then play innocent and claim the Soviets never had a written contract and they just considered it "acts of goodwill." This has resulted in a collective Eastern European PTSD about any and all agreements needing to be contractually binding in writing. Obviously NATO will sign no such thing since it is contractually binding.
>>21179 Are you talking about the >Oh NATO won't push past reunified East Germany! (1989) >Oh NATO won't push past Poland! (1996) >Oh NATO won't expand past into the baltic states! (2000) >Oh NATO won't expand into Caucasus (2006) >Oh NATO won't expand into the stans (2008) >Oh NATO won't past expand Ukraine, after we tried to expand into East Germany, Poland, Estonia, Lithuania, Lavita, Georiga, Armenia, Kazakhstan, and Syria. How dare you resist us? Had the Russians put their foot down on it earlier, this shit would've stopped much earlier. Then again, I think the Russians finally had enough and that NATO seems not to understand that this time it might properly fight back.
>>21180 Up until about halfway into Trump's presidency most of the economic benefits made it worth "ignoring" these expansions. The difference now is that NATO has been threatening trade sanctions while Russia has a trade surplus to the tone of $600 billion converted to USD they have debts but not an unpayable amount, think it's 13% of their GDP. Then NATO threatened military action while they have done nothing but flub every military operation in the last decade. NATO is weak, but I think Russia might be experiencing their "Imperial Japan" moment where they think their enemies are even weaker than they actually are due to a set of successive victories. But yes, that and other issues are exactly what I mean.
Keep in mind NATO is essentially leading a two-front "war" where they want to expand East, and have support from Eastern European NATO members, but Western European NATO members are sabotaging their supply lines due to being complacent and letting their defense industry be subsidized by America.
>>21180 Didn't Putin shitpost at a summit in 1999 about Russia joining NATO and received a formal rejection from the Clinton administration?
>>21188 I wouldn't call it a shitpost. He earnestly tried to get Russia into NATO both in 1999 under Clinton and in 2001 under Bush to form a European-North American defense organization as a legitimate defense against Asian, South American, and Middle Eastern threats to global stability. The West laughed him off-stage. Archive of 2001 article on the matter: https://archive.md/P0w0g Putin isn't a good guy, but at the end of the day he wants stability not territory/power.
>>21191 >Putin and stability I wonder how the next leader chosen and anointed by the Oligarchs + GRU/FSB will be in that regard? Short of a Second Miracle of the House of Brandenburg China strikes north instead of at breakaway Taiwan, I doubt there will be some Russia-NATO raproachment in the recent years.
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>>21192 Russia is somewhat friendly with China for now, but the last thing they want is a China that is securely in charge of it's corner of Asia. China has been eying Siberia since the Czar was still around, and they are sending immigrants over the border at a decent rate. If China is unshackled, Russia is next on the dinner table. I wouldn't bet on Russia sitting on their ass if the US gets involved in a war over Taiwan, especially because a Chinese victory means Siberia gets nommed next, and a US victory means their eastern border now is surrounded by US proxies like the west. They'd necessarily have to carve out their own buffer state if it looks like either side is winning. https://archive.md/xiSzv
>>21193 >Siberia To be "fair", the Chinese still consider parts of the Russian Far east "theirs" since muh unequal treaties. I don't think the Chinese will go after Siberia first though. Their main goal is to break the first/second island chains, firstly they think that is a bigger threat then the Russian proximity to Beijing. If we're going by pre-modern history thats mostly correct, but modern history shows China's greatest weakness is its navy, since the rest of the country is relatively insulated by terrain. I bet is a showdown with India/Japan/US in the future, and the Russians stirring up shit in Europe to take advantage of the US preoccupation in Asia Of course, that might be not possible with the current divide in the CPC since COVID started, looks like a power struggle is brewing.
>>21194 > If we're going by pre-modern history thats mostly correct I meant incorrect. Sorry.
>>21194 >Their main goal is to break the first/second island chains To be fair, China's main projected power is economic, and the islands serve to limit their ability to expand into the Pacific unhindered. A China with free and open access to the Pacific without having to prove they are abiding international law (until already out in the wide ocean) is a China that can ignore sanctions to supply weapons to Venezuela and other "dissident" countries attacked by international sanctions. I'm sympathetic to Chinese reasoning I just don't want to give the bugs even an inch on this given the harms they have already done with restricted economic warfare in America, Europe, and Africa. So long as China keeps approaching things as an economic super power, they can wait about 2-3 decades for the polar ice caps to finish thawing before they really push North.
>>21193 They are also allowing American oil companies to drill oil in the far east islands. I don't think they have much care to keep domestic company control in the far east. It just seems to be the west side of the country is domestically owned and controlled. They could crack down if they wanted to but I think they are doing this because they can't be arsed to industrialize the entire country and want others to do it for them.
>>21196 If we wait a decade or two won't China be full of geriatrics since they undercut themselves running the one child policy for two decades?
>>21199 American oil companies historically have had good ties with Russia since about the 50s. The USSR were good friends with American oil companies until they fucked over the Kochs back in the 70s and it nearly cost them their entire industry, at which point they have played nice ever since when it comes to hydrocarbons and petrochemicals. An important distinction to remember is that American oil companies are more like international companies that have extraterritorial rights in America as their main contractual hub, rather than being American companies. Most operate in dozens of other countries including America's enemies and political rivals. Exxon got in trouble for giving Biden the middle finger a few months ago in regards to offshore drilling in Myanmar since the Junta is pocketing the profits.
>>21200 If we wait a decade or two then suddenly China won't have a population bottleneck since one child got repealed in 2013 and Chinese businessmen just buy a slave to impregnate rather than bother with dating Chinese women. It makes me so angry that the status quo has to focus on fucking over Russia when the stars have basically aligned telling the world RIGHT NOW (in the next 5 years) is the time to fuck China over and dump everyone's debt on them. World debt is a far bigger issue and right now the world elite seem intent on making sure there isn't a standing army to say "fuck this Jewry" when everyone starts defaulting over the next decade. I can't tell whether it's pure smug retardation/confidence that nothing will change, or genuine incompetence because everyone sees the cliff but nobody wants to hit the brakes.
>>21202 >Population bottleneck Strelok, I believe you are vastly overestimating the desire of the current generation of Chinese to have children. It was brought up in the last years NPC meeting, I think the current generation has a fertility rate of somewhere around 0.2-0.5. I don't know a single Chinese person in their version of "genZ" (00 afters (2000 afters basically) is what their called) that has children, or is even married over there. Everyone's too busy trying to keep the lights on since childcare costs are so absurdly expensive over there. Granted, same thing is in the US/Europe, but the lolpoors can just get le guberment funding whereas that doesn't happen often in China.
>>21219 Isn't that because of all the child labor laws they passed in recent years? People don't have seven kids because they love each other very much (after the first generation exposed to modern bullshit). People have seven kids because it's free labor when you own your own business or work in the sticks. I realize that's a terrible way to look at children, but most people (people, not niggers) don't have a dozen kids unless they have a political agenda (ethnic replacement), get money for it (niggers, single mothers), or have practical use for children.
>>21220 >pop laws The thing is, is that those laws became so ingrained because muh propiganda, everyone (outside of rural poor peasants) believes 1 child = best way forward. Seriously, this mindset extends to ever overseas Chinese. Plus, labor in China is hiring poor as fuck peasants, kinda like how burgers hire illegals. Also considering that the costs are so high, and the food industry in china means high chance of poisoning by (random chemical toxic to children here), you can kinda see why.
>>21160 It wasn't just warfare. Super-high child mortality rates combined with economic factors, remember that's when starvation was a constant threat to ones well-being, forced up to 90% of people not having children at all until the 19th century. People in trades had a much more stable income, everybody needs tools and repairs, that's why they are part of the tenth that did reproduce.
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>>21108 >Being a simple farmer in pre-industrial revolution times wasn't stable enough to allow for many surviving heirs Farmers ate better than most during pre-industrial times. Only knights tended to have better meals than farmers. Rich people and tradesmen consumed largely bread without meat and vegetables in their diet. >Thus slowly their last names were replaced by people moving down the hierarchy. >>21226 >Super-high child mortality rates combined with economic factors Anon you can't just generalize the plagues that struck Europe from the 15th and 16th century as representing all life in Europe for several centuries. Yes, plagues dropped the average number of children a peasant had to 2 instead of 3, however peasants also bred and died significantly faster than nobles and tradesmen (marrying in their teens and dying in their 20s/30s instead of marrying in their 20s and dying in their 60s/70s), which offsets their higher infant mortality. More importantly while paupers certainly lived in squalor and were quickly replaced (paupers mostly being the 2nd or 3rd sons/daughters of a household who did not have the option to move to a different town or acquire a different trade), rural peasants were living quite well for most of European history. I'm calling bullshit since I think we've read the same (or similar) sources and are interpreting them completely differently.
>>21221 The Chinese are trying to fix it by stomping education pressure and blocking the emasculation of men in media. The former being more interesting, the more educated always had the side-effect of having less children than the less educated, no matter the real intelligence, so banning homework and regulating after-school tutoring will rise the birth rate, I'm certain of that. It gets even more interesting when you look at the Natalist policies of the two most famous Fascist states and see the obvious parallels.
>>21233 >stomping education Not gonna happen with deeply ingrained cultural values. They'd have to completely destroy Confucius to do that. >Emasculation Maybe. Considering how the CPC has devolved into another round of infighting we shall see....
>>21229 Anon, I never talked about the plagues. Using the plagues as averages is stupid, agree, but the much more common occurences of food shortages is a fact. Food shortages don't have to degenerate into famines to have an impact on the fertility rate. Furthermore the average lifespan of the average peasant is pulled down by the high child mortality. They didn't die like flies when they reached their midlife crisis, lel. You seem to forget that having 2 to maybe 3 children is barely the self-replacement rate, the higher classes had four times that. If you look at medieval facial reconstructions using skulls of peasants, then you will see the lack of those farmer phenotypes in the modern population. Let's say the average rural farmer was well-off, then there is a lack of population booms until the farming revolution of the 17th century. I seriously doubt that they simply decided not to have children, there was something else pushing them to be childless, and that is the uncertainty of farming without chemical fertilizers, that is not to say that there weren't major improvements made in the sense of harnessing water-power or improvements of irrigation canals or windbreaks, but still not enough to make it compareable to the comfortability of farming after the 17th century.
>>21235 I thought you numbskulls think chinese got rid of all their culture during the "cultural revolution"? So which is it?
>>21238 >greentext If you had a proper grasp of reading comprehension and critical thought, you will realize that the cultural revolution dynamics are more than what they appear on the surface. Once Mao died, the next set of leaders realized Confucius is great for keeping a population in certain social strata, so they have been promoting it ever since. Now, go back to schizo posting Alaskans or some shit.
Russia has officially put forward their list of demands: >Re-establishment of the treaties on nuclear proliferation that America quit in 2018 >A rollback to 1997 NATO sphere of influence >Countries since then can be part of NATO still, but would require Russian consent before any troop placements in those regions >An end to all military drills in Poland, Ukraine, the Baltics, and the Caucuses >A separate treaty with America basically saying the same thing but applying specifically to them That's fairly ballsy of Moscow even compared to what Putin asked for. It is unreasonable to include countries like Poland, but as some of the baltic countries are discussing, ultimately it should be possible for NATO and Russia to come to a compromise halfway... If western NATO members shut their mouths and let Eastern NATO members do the negotiations with American assistance, that is. I think this is about to turn into a dick-waving contest unfortunately.
>>21245 >It is unreasonable to include countries like Poland Why? Poland is an irrelevant pawn used as a buffer zone and a bargaining chip between Russian and the Western Evrop for centuries.
>>21246 It is the equivalent of a court case dismissal with malice to include Poland in negotiations due to the Belarussian border incidents being instigated by Lukashenko who is in Putin's sphere of influence. Including Poland is a poison pill when Poland has officially and fully integrated into Western Europe and began the process to join NATO before the baltics or caucuses with full consent from Russia at the time. By including Poland Russia loses their causes belli for pushing an uneven treaty with NATO. Poland is no longer the vassal state of Germany or Russia and hasn't been for a while now. NATO should unironically offer Russia to join NATO. As far as I'm concerned that is the only logical approach they can have is to allow Russia and Ukraine to join NATO simultaneously. That doesn't mean accepting them, it just means giving them the same offer the Baltics got (fix your shit and we'll let you in). Russia's courts are slowly putting a noose around Putin's neck and creating a pathway for Russia to join NATO (with a stipulation that Russia, Georgia, and Ukraine must join at the same time) would bring stability to Europe and put an end to this cold war MkIII. It would be a "gotcha" that Putin would have to respond to if he wanted to maintain the high ground on a geopolitical level. Unfortunately NATO is anti-Russian instead of pro-peace so that is unlikely to happen.
Anon from earlier so polite sage. Here is the full list of demands since news agencies won't post them. Other than the second clause they are reasonable demands. >To rule out further NATO expansion and Ukraine's accession to the alliance >Not to deploy additional troops and weapons outside the countries in which they were in May 1997 (before any Eastern European countries joined the alliance) - except in exceptional cases with the consent of Russia and NATO members >To abandon any NATO military activities in Ukraine, Eastern Europe, the Caucasus and Central Asia >Not to deploy intermediate and shorter-range missiles where they can hit the territory of the other side >Not to conduct exercises with more than one military brigade in an agreed border zone, and to regularly exchange information about military exercises >To confirm that the parties do not consider each other as adversaries, and agree to resolve all disputes peacefully and refrain from the use of force >To commit not to create conditions that might be perceived as a threat by the other party >To create hotlines for emergency contacts >To agree that neither Russia nor the United States may deploy nuclear weapons outside their national territories. Exclude Poland from the deal and I think that is reasonable. At that point Russia might as well be part of NATO though.
>>21247 Wouldn't Russia need to adopt 5.56 and 7.62 to be in NATO?
>>21250 Most ex-Warsaw NATO members have failed to do so, so I don't think it's a problem. Although STANAG talks would be hilarious with the Russians trying to make every new development backward-complicated 90% of the time, only to come up with German-tier Wunderwaffe time-to-time.
>>21251 >backward-complicated That should be backward-compatible.
>>21249 >demands I see the US pulling a "Well that was the other political party" and renge on the agreement immediately.
>>21181 >I think Russia might be experiencing their "Imperial Japan" moment where they think their enemies are even weaker than they actually are due to a set of successive victories. The difference being that Imperial Japan didn't have hypersonic nukes so Pear Harbor 2.0 looks like it'll be one hell of a blast.
>>21181 >I think Russia might be experiencing their "Imperial Japan" moment where they think their enemies are even weaker than they actually are Funny, I think that that is EXACTLY America's position....
>>21249 >one military brigade in an agreed border zone Knowing Russia they'll kindly ask not to train east of the German border, which is a NG. >To confirm that the parties do not consider each other as adversaries, and agree to resolve all disputes peacefully and refrain from the use of force Knowing Russia, they'll still be up to their usual hybrid warfare bullshit in Ukraine regardless of any agreements and NATO will get iffy with the thought of them being there, so it's not happening. >>21250 >Wouldn't Russia need to adopt 5.56 and 7.62 to be in NATO No. It's not a requirement, it's more of a suggestion and recommendation that they do it in the next few decades. Some of the former combloc countries still use 5.45 or x39, and most of them keep shitloads of AKs in reserve. The use of a small-arms cartridge is really of least concern regarding Russia joining NATO, though. >>21251 >Most ex-Warsaw NATO members have failed to do so Not most, I think only like 3 or 4 have not yet phased it out of standard issue weapons, Romania, Slovakia/Slovenia and Albania all have varying degrees of NATO cartridge usage. NATO partner countries aren't standardised.
>>21463 America's position is the Qing Empire if we want to use historical metaphors.
>>21480 So 'merica is actually under the yoke injuns from Canuckistan?
Talk has failed. War soon, strelo/k/s? Russia says Ukraine talks hit 'dead end', Poland warns of risk of war >VIENNA/MOSCOW, Jan 13 - Poland's foreign minister said on Thursday that Europe was closer to war than any time in the last 30 years as Russia gave a bleak assessment of diplomatic efforts this week to defuse tensions over Ukraine. >Russia said it was hitting a dead end as it tried to persuade the West to bar Ukraine from joining NATO and roll back decades of alliance expansion in Europe. >It offered a stark view before the week's security meetings have even finished, with talks under way in Vienna on Thursday at the 57-nation Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE). >Without naming Russia in his address to envoys from the 57 OSCE members, Polish Foreign Minister Zbigniew Rau mentioned tensions in Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia and Moldova, all countries with active or frozen conflicts in which Russia has been alleged to be a party. >"It seems that the risk of war in the OSCE area is now greater than ever before in the last 30 years," he said. "For several weeks we have been faced with the prospect of a major military escalation in Eastern Europe," he said, launching his country's year-long chairmanship of the security organisation. >He reported no breakthrough at the meeting. >Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov told RTVI television in an interview that Russian military specialists were providing options to President Vladimir Putin in case the situation around Ukraine worsened, but diplomacy must be given a chance. >However, he said talks with the United States in Geneva on Monday and with NATO in Brussels on Wednesday had shown there was a "dead end or difference of approaches", and he saw no reason to sit down again in the coming days to re-start the same discussions. >Russia has forced the United States and its allies to the negotiating table by assembling around 100,000 troops near the border with Ukraine, while denying it plans to invade. Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said U.S. demands for them to pull back were unacceptable. >Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said: "I believe that the only way for the Russians to confirm their lack of intention to solve problems by force is to continue discussion with the established formats." >'ELIMINATE THREATS' >The barrage of pessimistic comment from Russian ministers and officials cast grave doubt on the chances of a diplomatic breakthrough at one of the most fraught moments in East-West relations since the Cold War. >Russian Ambassador Alexander Lukashevich told the OSCE: "If we don't hear a constructive response to our proposals within a reasonable timeframe and an aggressive line of behaviour towards Russia continues, we will be forced to draw appropriate conclusions and take all necessary measures to ensure strategic balance and eliminate unacceptable threats to our national security." He went on: "Russia is a peace-loving country. But we do not need peace at any cost. The need to obtain these legally formalised security guarantees for us is unconditional." >His speech was consistent with a pattern of recent statements in which Russia has said it wants a diplomatic solution but has also rejected calls to reverse its troop build-up and warned of unspecified consequences for Western security if its demands go unheeded. >The United States says Moscow's calls to veto Ukrainian membership and halt NATO military activity in eastern Europe are non-starters, but that it is willing to talk about arms control, missile deployments and confidence-building measures. >Russia says that after decades of NATO expansion it is determined to draw red lines and stop the alliance from admitting Ukraine as a member or basing missiles there. >NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said after talks on Wednesday that countries must be free to choose their own security arrangements. >Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov criticised a sanctions bill unveiled by U.S. Senate Democrats on Wednesday that would target top Russian government and military officials, including Putin, as well as key banking institutions, if Russia attacks Ukraine. >Peskov said sanctioning Putin would be tantamount to severing relations. >"We view the appearance of such documents and statements extremely negatively against the background of ongoing negotiations, albeit unsuccessful ones," he said. >U.S. ambassador Michael Carpenter told the OSCE meeting: "As we prepare for an open dialogue on how to strengthen security for the benefit of all, we must decisively reject blackmail and never allow aggression and threats to be rewarded." >Russia has said it will decide on its next moves after this week's talks. It has threatened unspecified "military-technical measures" if its demands are rejected. >U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman said on Wednesday that if Russia walked away, it would show it was never serious about diplomacy in the first place. https://web.archive.org/web/20220113145341/https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-us-nato-talks-so-far-unsuccessful-2022-01-13/
>>21586 Mit dem Hilfspaket Bidens wird das alles in Ordnung kommen.
>Michael Carpenter, the U.S. ambassador to the OSCE, said at a press briefing Thursday: "We're facing a crisis in European security... The drumbeat of war is sounding loud and the rhetoric has gotten rather shrill." https://web.archive.org/web/20220113155353/https://news.yahoo.com/russian-officials-brief-putin-extremely-152416391.html
>>21586 Doubt it, Russia has more to lose than the west even if it "wins" and the Russians know it, at some point it might be worth it, but think 5 to 10 years or more, i might be wrong though. I'm leaning >>21181 >they think their enemies are even weaker than they actually are
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>>21481 Canadians are the manchus for the purpose of the analogy. The coming US civil war/national divorce is the Taiping Rebellion. Wokeness are the Boxers. >>21586 >War soon? I honestly don't know. A month ago I said there would be no war in Ukraine and a year ago I said there was no chance of a civil war. The "Imperial Japan" moment analogy is looking more and more accurate though. Democrats can't allow a war to break out before 2022 if they want to avoid a Republican supermajority, and yet instead they are discussing sanctioning Russia's Head of State.
>>21586 The solution is obvious, though Biden is never going to do it: Get Ukraine to ask NATO to help keep the peace, and put 100.000 NATO troops on Ukraine's Russian border while telling Putin that you don't intend to invade. It'd take the willingness to play chicken, but you aren't going to dissuade Russia by acting like a pussy. >>21591 I'm thinking it's going to go something like this: >Russia gets sanctioned and told to stop being a naughty boy >Russia thinks the west are all pussies and invades Ukraine >Eastern Europeans say no and send help because they don't want the precedent of Russia gobbling up another country in Eastern Europe. >Democrats hit the panic button because they can't afford to look weak after Afghanistan, both domestically and internationally See you in Moscow by Christmas, strelok.
>>21594 I'm gonna laugh at all the dead trannisaries in the near future.
>>21594 >Democrats hitting the panic button I have a feeling that any sort of Poland led semi-Nato incursion will either end in a winter war type humiliating defeat and Russia annexes Ukraine proper, or some sort of "phony war" where it becomes NATO air units versus the Russian Air defense network.... My bet is on the Russians for that one It would be completely hilarious if we end up seeing Chinese reverse engineered S-400 and Tor missles built ending up in Ukraine getting sold to the Russians because they ran out of stock.. What's more interesting is the concentration of missle units China (People's Republic of )is amassing again the real China (Republic of) but that's off topic.
>>21594 A conflict like that would turn nuclear if actual Russian territory is attacked. Hopefully with just small tactical nukes and a stand down before it goes full blown strategic, in which case I hope you like nuclear hellfire. I expect Russia to just keep posturing until they can't keep that many troops stationed there, because of logistics among other things, and then pull out. If there is a conflict Russia would seize only parts of eastern Ukraine with constant insurgency in majority-Ukrainian areas, while NATO sends some advisors and mercenaries. Russia's economy and infrastructure is ass and they can't really afford, nor want a protracted war, and the threat of a loss would be catastrophic. Still don't think any conflict is likely. >>21596 >winter war type humiliating defeat and Russia annexes Ukraine proper Optimistic. Russia is fucking broke and the will to actually fight in Ukraine is not that high. Ukraine isn't a soft target, either. They've modernised a lot and they have considerable artillery and a lot of ATGMs. >Russian Air defense network Not the best track record, just so you know. HARM spam would be severe if NATO actually committed with air power, and I hope you don't think they can kill a fighter 300km like advertising claims. Turkish drones have been out there killing S-300s and other Russian air defence equipment regularly.
>>21591 >>21597 A lot of it depends on how hard the US continues to escalate things. the NATO thing is a huge sticking point for Russia.
>>21597 >HARM That assumes that NATO gets semi-serious about dealing with Russia, and my viewpoint on it is that aside from Eastern Europe and maybe the US, the rest of it is too busy with its own issues. >Optimistic I'm hedging my bets on the Russians purely because the "western/northern" Europe (Alongside the US) seem absolutely hellbent on a "humanitarian" conflict. That in and of itself is a an oxymoron but I digress. If the Polish-coalition is hamstrung like the shitshow that was Afghanistan, I'd imagine they would be more detrimental than helpful, especially with extra strain on logistics. >300km missle claim Considering the MIM-104C had a maximum of 160km I'm not exactly expecting the 9К331 to beat it, perhaps maybe the 9К331МКМ but I'm being generous. The S-400 probably has a maximum (being again, generous) of 240km similar to the RIM-174. I'd be much more afraid of the Russians building a 2-man 9K33M3 with 4 missleswith 50R6A FCS and missles. Highly mobile, amphibious, wire/radar guided. That being said, the Russian would have to afford it and the automation upgrades. Considering the Russian desire for automated FCS on the 677 in the late 90s, I consider it another of the "technically feasible, economically impossible" delusions of grandeur that they have.
>>21598 The alliance that was formed in the aftermath of World War 2 to counter (Soviet) Russia has never actually fought a war with Russia. Let's see how it holds up.
I am always wondering how the Chinese would react to Ukrainian war. I would assume they would just sit and watch. But it certainly seems that USA is intent on fighting both Russia and China at once. So it would be next in the event of Russia being repulsed or worse, assuming it is all non nuclear of course.
>>21601 >China Already got the engineers in China in the 90s/00s so they could care less. Might try to buy out some equipment from the Ukranians (shipbuilding/ aircraft)
>>21597 >Russia's economy and infrastructure is ass and they can't really afford, nor want a protracted war Russia's economic output is ass compared to Western countries, but their industry is pretty solid, anon. They have infrastructure hammered down and the surplus budget to maintain it, even if they can't afford the fanciest, newwest military toys.
>>21601 I could see the Chinese launching an attack on Taiwan while the US is distracted and India while Russia is distracted. I think the reason Putin is so desperate for those security guarantees or to take military action to forcefully secure them is because he knows once China is done fucking with America's allies in South-East Asia, they're coming for Siberia and Russian allies in central Asia.
>>21603 Their military morale would end up being a problem in a prolonged war though, however the US and Western Europe are already underwater in that regard. Eastern Europe (esp. Poland) with its desire to avoid a repeat of the USSR at all costs might end up being the most eager participants.
>>21598 >US continues to escalate things I wouldn't say it's the US that has escalated things. The US position for the last 10 years has been "they aren't ready yet, but the door is open" while Russia thinks NATO being involved west of Germany in any capacity is completely haram. Russia doesn't get a veto, and there wasn't a written agreement between Russia, Ukraine and NATO that they couldn't join. It may be a sticking point, but what's it to them? They have like 3 divisions right next to the Baltics, while they chimp out when the US puts a Patriot battery in Poland and NATO deployments in former soviet territories remain a fucking pittance in comparison. >>21599 >"humanitarian" conflict. That in and of itself is a an oxymoron but I digress. If there's genocide and mass murder happening, like there was during the Yugoslav wars, then I'd disagree. I wouldn't see it as a negative to invade or put a peacekeeping force there to prevent any escalation, terrorism or spillover elsewhere.
>>21605 Letting Poland and company take back their former holdings in western hoholstan would probably set them at ease for a while. >>21606 >terrorism abloobloos Eight years too late, westerners who don't enjoy their rather rapidly declining societies end up out this way to learn how to do things. It'll be funny when they go home.
>>21606 >If there's genocide and mass murder happening, like there was during the Yugoslav wars When the fuck did this /k/ become so kosher?
>>21606 They chimp out because all the population centers are on the North-Western side of Russia and most of the agricultural centers, permanent military installations, and coal mine are in the South-Western part.
>>21611 Zoomers that found this board from 4/k/ I bet.
>>21611 /k/ didn't become kosher the userbase grew up and stopped being edgy. Memes are fun but so is practical discussion. Even if you allegedly support genocide in your host country, you should be opposed to genocide in countries you do not want sending refugees your way on a practical basis.
>>21617 Being the world police is not a viable position and the NATO intervention in Kosovo gave precedent for the Russian intervention in Crimea. Yugoslavia's "humanitarian" intervention was a progression of mission creep from the original international "goal" of preventing another Holocaust in the aftermath of World War 2. Embracing mainstream political positions isn't "growing up," it's selling out.
>>21619 I think you're giving the average anon too much credit. I've discovered over time that most Streloks do not know much about the topics being discussed, so it's important to disseminate information as in your post for a greater understanding for ignorant anons like myself.
For what it's worth even if I still stand vy my previous statement, a botched job like what you described shouldn't be propped up either if what you said is true. Idon't know enough about that situation and don't care enough to research it.
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>>21619 To add nuance to that, it's one thing to be a realist, and another to be a shill. And it's possible for either to be confused with the other. if you were a real asshole the absolutely malevolent option is to send the refugees back to the host country and where they'd all be put to death, just to not deal with them
>>21610 >Poland and company Who are that company? I don't think any other country in Eastern Europe has what it takes to actually do something more than adding some token forces to NATO.
>>21611 >/k/ didn't become kosher the userbase grew up and stopped being edgy. This, at one point one starts to take things seriously and stops just calling for genocide at every turn, one can be interested in weapons, geopolitics and military history without wanting to go in a killing spree like some nigger.
Has anyone else been laughing at how the Biden administration accused Russia of trying to commit a false flag right before the weekend after his vaccine mandate got shot down by SCOTUS and he told people on public television to ignore the Supreme Court, and yet the moment Russia announces they've arrested a hacker group fucking with America, the news media stories all change to call it a "potential justification for entering Ukraine" instead of calling it a false flag like they were earlier today?
>>21629 No doubt it is going to be a clusterfuck where the CIA attempt a false flag to make it look like the Russians started a false flag in order to jumpstart the war. Then the propaganda pours even worse then it is with all those "See I told you so, totally the Russians".
>>21619 >>21630 One of the most worrying prospects of another Russian invasion of Ukraine (or a Russian invasion of the Baltics) is that they no longer see Ukrainians or Balts as potential subjects, but as ethnic enemies, which means the likelihood of civilian atrocities is terrifyingly high. https://web.archive.org/web/20220115032548/https://twitter.com/peterawolf/status/1482121607699222528 Let's heat up that "humanitarian" narrative for public consumption.
What does anon think the first few weeks of a war would look like? Let's ignore what sparks it or why it happens and just focus on what will happen. I'm probably not 100% correct but I imagine it will go something like: >Regardless of why, Russia seizes Donbass almost uncontested >OC East (Operational Command of the Eastern Ukrainian military) mobilizes along the Sea of Azov to allow limited Naval support because they know Russia wants a land bridge to Crimea >If they are smart, OC east digs in a defensive position along the land bridge to prevent Russian land access to Crimea >Crimea likely launches some sort of mild resistance against OC East turning it into a two-front war >There are no absolutes in war but Russia probably seizes a land bridge to Crimea otherwise it's trench warfare time >OC South is called in to subjugate Crimea but being the least-funded and smallest unit on par with the reserves their mileage may vary >Alternatively, Zelenksy being a comedian and not a leader, panics and recalls OC South to defend Kiev de facto giving Russia control of everything East of the Dnieper river >Meanwhile OC North is likely in a fierce two-front standoff spread thin between fighting Russia and Belarus >OC West will likely also be dealing with Belarus or get called into Kiev, which will end poorly since they are sending a mountain army to defend the plains Belarus said last June they would invade Ukraine if Russia invades Ukraine. >Either a stalemate ensues after Poland declares war on Belarus allowing Ukraine to redistribute their forces against Russia, or Poland's handlers (NATO) NTR them and prevent them from entering the war resulting in Russia steamrolling through Eastern Ukraine >A severely battered and bloodied OC East consolidates around Dnieper in the latter scenario and their remnants are merged into OC South along with Ukraine's reserves, who are then ordered to defend the river everywhere South of Kiev. >Russia may have limited success in Southern Ukraine (doubtful since that is agricultural land E.G. insurgents galore) and if they do they will try to use it as a bargaining chip >Russia will likely stop short of reaching Ukraine's other border so as to avoid war with Hungary >If Poland becomes involved all bets are off but Russia probably at least seizes a land bridge to Crimea >If Poland doesn't become involved it's a stalemate with the war focusing on Kiev (to rape-murder Zelensky), Kherson (to secure the Crimean border), and Dnipropetrovsk (to enter Ukraine proper) >In the latter scenario Russia has to deal with Ukraine's shoddy artillery lobbing shells across the river whenever they approach while Kiev might not even be able to survive a two-front war Everything past that point enters pure speculation, but I see events unfolding like this either over days, weeks, or possibly months depending on Ukraine's resistance. How does Strelok see it going down? I left a labeled map for brainstorming.
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>>21633 Siege of Kiev when?
>Chernobyl is a legitimate invasion route to get to Kiev So I take it Stalker 2 was delayed to get info and add the Russian invasion into the game?
>>21606 >I wouldn't say it's the US that has escalated things. Probably because you haven't been paying attention. > The US position for the last 10 years has been ...to put pressure on Russia, cause trouble, a and then blame Russia for it. FTFY >while they chimp out when the US puts a Patriot battery in Poland and NATO deployments in former soviet territories remain a fucking pittance in comparison. I'll agree as soon as we see Russia stationing SA-10s and SA-14's in Mexico and the US doesn't "chimp out" over it. Or wait: Russia putting SRBMs in Cuba, and the US not "chimping out" despite them doing the same thing in Turkey... > genocide and mass murder happening, like there was during the Yugoslav wars A nation removing hostile minorities from within itself is no reason to invade it. INB4: "oyvey it's anudda shoah"
>>21633 >Russia will likely stop short of reaching Ukraine's other border so as to avoid war with Hungary Considering the current state of the Hungarian military, I don't think it's something they have to worry about. Even more, in April there will be elections, and at this rate Orbán will cause an economic collapse, the current leader of the Hungarian opposition is a pro-Western conservative which means he thinks it's okay to be gay, and so supports fagmarriage, and Orbán's lackeys are entrenched in every public position. No matter who wins, it will be a complete mess. I Russia really wanted to have fun, they could support a coup and put in power a group who wants to restore the borders of the Kingdom of Hungary.
>>21637 >A nation removing hostile minorities from within itself is no reason to invade it. Except this case is not about removing "hostile minorities" from within itself. It's about invading another country, claiming it's yours, and then acting outraged that the people you invaded didn't like it. Besides, as >>21627 noted, eventually you need to grow up and stop pretending "just murder everyone" is a sane solution.
>>21640 The Yugoslav wars were mentioned, and Yugoslavia was one country, until it wasn't because of said minorities. And the murder everyone solution has worked well throughout history - just ask the first Carthaginian you meet. Or the first Cathar. To state that it's somehow immature is pure modernism. >>21639 Starting a coup in a NATO country and EU member would not go well for Russia. It'd be like the US trying to get HongKong to rebel.
>>21641 >Starting a coup in a NATO country and EU member would not go well for Russia. They don't have to start it, just shake hands with the new strongman and smile for the camera.
>>21641 > To state that it's somehow immature is pure modernism. People like to pretend that history is a giant morality play. It's the style of history we teach to kids because...? I'm not sure why because it only creates false optimism and inevitable disillusionment. It might have been excusable to teach about the march of "progress" when everything seemed to be on an upswing in the West in the '90s and early 2000s up to the recession. However we're still pretending like nothing's changed in the past decade -- in fact we're doubling down on this fake optimism with the bans of anything not "family-friendly" online. This disconnect causes doomerism because of the disillusionment that results between expectation and reality. That's why I reckon if you encounter this naive sentiment on boards, it's likely because they were too young to have seen the shitshow and understand why anons are so unconventional in their politics. There are also zoomers that accepted political positions without understanding why to fit in with the discussion, since lurk more is no longer a rule these days. We're the old breed now and the war's going to be fought by those that sign up based on recruitment posters like these.
>>21650 >People like to pretend that history is a giant morality play. It's the style of history we teach to kids because...? In general it is due to how humans work, we are simple apes with a consciousness that was only quite recently put on top of our base nature. But specifically, in the case of the Western world I blame the Anglo-French propaganda effort to paint the Germans as mere animals motivated by pure evil, and they are the good guys who must put them down. In ww1 they simply started running out of reasons to tell the people as to why they have to keep fighting, and so these two belligerents turned to this moralist narrative, and America joined in. Then ww2 rolled around, they doubled, or more like quadrupled down on this style of propaganda, and the USSR also employed this. And since then the masses can't seem to wrap their head around the idea that war can be seen as a risky investment that can greatly benefit them in the long term, instead it has to be a crusade against daemons. Genghis khan would be disappointed.
>>21641 >And the murder everyone solution has worked well throughout history The murder-everyone solution has only worked during massive empires that were too big for surrounding countries to take issue with their actions. Those empires typically fractured or split up within 4-8 generations later due to the "us vs them" mentality such actions generated. For every Carthage there is a German village slaughtering every Roman in town and destroying the Ox-roads after an attempted genocide of the next town over. That's why the Romans had such a hard time spreading through Western Europe was their penchant for genocide. You know what ideology spread through the world faster than any empire had before it? Christianity. You know what Christianity promised? No more genocides and let's help each other out for a change. It worked so well the pagans did the revolting themselves to get out from under the yoke of Pagan leaders.
>>21652 >Those empires typically fractured or split up within 4-8 generations later due to the "us vs them" mentality such actions generated. Nothing lasts forever, and from a purely evolutionary standpoint we should try to figure out the genetic impact of these empires to see their real effect. But if we just go with culture, then the descendants of the Roman Empire's lingua franca are still widely spoken. Or if we look at the East, Shina did manage to only grow bigger over the millennia, and their impact is even bigger than their population and territory. >Christianity Christianity is just the watered-down version of the common Semitic cults that spread through the Fertile Crescent first with various Semitic populations. Then Rome conquered a rather large chunk of that land, and those Semitic populations flooded the eternal city and also spread through their empire. Jews were the butts of many jokes, and emperor Elagabalus was the descendant of an Arab dynasty. That's why so many Roman citizens were suddenly interested in this decidedly non-Roman cult, among lots of other such Semitic secret clubs. And eventually a certain Mohammad created a much more violent Semitic cult that successfully took over most of the former territories of the Roman Empire,
>>21653 >Second half Can't say I want to read fake history right now, thanks.
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>>21654 Then enjoy your very real delusion about Christianity becoming so popular in Rome because it's just so incredibly awesome that it couldn't be stopped.
>>21652 >You know what Christianity promised? No more genocides and let's help each other out for a change I did mention the Cathars for a reason. You know, the ones where the cardinal in charge of the crusade against them said "kill em all and let God sort em out", so they killed Catholics in Cathar cities too?
>>21656 That's about a thousand years after the period he's speaking of and to be honest unless you're a sociopath that's much more of an argument against you.
>>21658 >unless you're a sociopath War is amoral. If compassion were a rule in warfare armies might as well not exist at all.
>>21660 Why remove something that will be with us forever? It's like the hatespeech bullshit. Some people want to remove the emotion alltogether, just because it's a negative one. No, it should always be part of us. It's the same with war. You shouldn't stop it.
>>21660 Let's put it this way, i understand that killing might be necessary, i understand that i might need to use violence to defend myself for example, i understand that i might kill someone if it comes down to that, that's fine, the issue is if i wanted to kill people, if i wanted violence to be the rule and not the exception then I'd be just an edgy sociopath which is what you sound like. Usually people, armies, states, etc, want to win wars, to end them as soon as possible, fighting them is not the point, the violence is not the point. >If compassion were a rule in warfare armies might as well not exist at all. I don't know dude, war crimes have existed as a concept for hundreds of years and armies and war still exist. >>21661 I hope you let yourself be killed if it comes down to it, don't stop it, murderers will always be part of us, so let them do their thing.
It looks like we have arrived at the point where everyone lost sight of the origin of this while arguing. And that is this statement: >>21606 >If there's genocide and mass murder happening, like there was during the Yugoslav wars, then I'd disagree. I wouldn't see it as a negative to invade or put a peacekeeping force there to prevent any escalation, terrorism or spillover elsewhere. It is an opinion, all right, but disagreeing with it is not the same as advocating endless war. Besides, it comes to an important question: is western Ukraine, full of ethnic Russians, which was not part of Ukraine until relatively recently, should be considered a proper part of Ukraine; or is the current situation is the result of a bad decision by a single soviet leader, and Russia is not in the wrong to try and change the borders? And if we go even further beyond, Ukraine already passed a law that de facto banned using the Russian language. If we ignore the events of the last two decades, and just look at the previous question, wouldn't Russia invading Ukraine be a humanitarian action, as they are trying to defend the ethnic Russian living in eastern Ukraine?
>>21663 >is western Ukraine I mean eastern Ukraine. It's not even me being bad at geography, I just somehow always switch directions when I type out something in English.
>>21661 >>21662 >if i wanted violence to be the rule and not the exception then I'd be just an edgy sociopath which is what you sound like. >Usually people, armies, states, etc, want to win wars, to end them as soon as possible, fighting them is not the point, the violence is not the point. When you're on equal footing, the "fair" fight starts degenerating into "how to eliminate as many of the opposite side as efficiently as possible". What may have started with noble intentions quickly spirals out of control. You might not want to be a sociopath going into a war, but unless you have a supreme amount of self-control people come out of it probably having to be one at some point. Lying about it makes it worse for the soldiers that experience the sudden jolt whenever the war ends and there is a return to civilian life. There can be an honor that develops, but it's never what's pre-conceived in treaties and manuals. >I don't know dude, war crimes have existed as a concept for hundreds of years and armies and war still exist. Societies agree on rules of war then proceed to breach them when the stakes are dire. The shame of dishonor is only seconded by the shame of defeat. In the Byzantine Empire soldiers were originally expected to do a year of penitential atonement for having to kill during a war. By the time of the First Crusade, after the Arab armies had invaded and taken the majority of the empire, calling upon the Pope for assistance from the West a general pardon for all conduct in the Crusade was offered instead. Using crossbows and shotguns were both considered atrocities at points, and those were quickly disregarded. They banned gas and incendiaries right before World War I before both sides immediately started using it. The ideals of chivalry were great, but when French knights were cut down by English longbowmen at Crecy and at Agincourt rather than ransomed did they matter in the reality of battle?
>>21660 i disagree. there is 1 immoral choice in war. losing. you can't lose, because the enemy will raze your cities, rape your women, kill your children, etc. then he's gonna tell everyone that you were worse and that he was justified and history is gonna believe him. there is no wrong choice if it guarantees victory or prevents a loss in the future. genocide is just a weapon to prevent a future war that you may lose. its just as moral as any other weapon in your arsenal.
>>21663 >It looks like we have arrived at the point where everyone lost sight of the origin of this while arguing Pretty much >is the current situation is the result of a bad decision by a single soviet leader Also pretty much, though for most states that's enough to make their borders sacred and inviolable (see Nagorno-Karabakh) Russia definitely has a point, but no other state is going to agree. >>21666 Yes rules are broken but also surprisingly obeyed, ww2 being a good example actually >>21667 If you don't want to kill people at the slightest disagreement then i don't see why states/nations should genocide each other at the slightest disagreement.
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>>21663 >is western Ukraine, full of ethnic Russians, which was not part of Ukraine until relatively recently, should be considered a proper part of Ukraine; or is the current situation is the result of a bad decision by a single soviet leader, and Russia is not in the wrong to try and change the borders? Unfortunately the issues are more complicated. From the most unbiased historical perspective that I can reasonably give, some Ukrainians were Russians a long time ago, and have had historically good ties with the Russians due to both being vassal states to the Golden Horde. Southern and Eastern Ukrainians are either ethnically Russian or are predominantly and culturally Russian until you hit Odesa, Western Ukrainians are Austro-Hungarian, and Northern Ukrainians are sort of a mixed bag but predominantly Austro-Hungarian from the times of the Principality of Galicia. Under the yoke of the golden horde, Ukraine was considered its own state since it is something of the "birthplace" of slavic ethnicities, but for all intents and purposes it was an autonomous satellite region to the Rus princes to the East to keep out foreigners. From about the 1800s to the early 1900s Ukraine was Russian territory, and under the Soviets the Ukrainians more or less maintained the same status quo they had been maintaining since about 900AD as an autonomous region that reported to Russia but was not necessarily subservient to Russia. More or less all slavic groups originate form Ukraine before the coming of the Golden Horde, and have maintained themselves as a mix of Slavic, Iranian, and Turkish ancestry since those times with more or less of one of those three ethnicities mixed in depending on where they were in Ukraine greater. As can be cross-referenced from these maps and the maps I posted in >>21633 the ethnic maps and the geographical maps "kind of" line up but it's not the full story. It's not helped by the fact that Russia is a civic state and not an ethnostate so while ethnicity might play into the greater picture, it's not the end-all be-all for the Russians. Reasonably, if you drew a a straight line from Kharkiv to Kremenchuk, everything south of that, on that side of the river, could reasonably be called ethnically Russian lands whether the source of that Russian ethnicity is legitimate (interbreeding) or not (artificial migration). Ukraine lacks clearly defined borders between the ethnically Russian and ethnically Ukrainian parts of the country, so splitting them would be like the India-Pakistan split. You would still have Russians in Odessa and you would still have Ukrainians in Chernihiv, for instance. Unfortunately all of Ukraine's money lies in the ethnically Russian parts of Ukraine so they are kind of at a stand-still. You have Odesa who does not want to be Russian or Ukrainian but the Ukrainians subjugate them because Black Sea access is necessary for industry. The northern parts of Ukraine have been trying to recover since their industrial heartland to the South-East is in a civil war (and failing because the money/talent/infrastructure just isn't there in Northern Ukraine), and you have North-Eastern Ukraine which is very clearly Ukrainian and does not want to be part of Russia, but which is on the wrong side of the river. I don't mention elections because the 2019 elections were a Russia-tier rigged shitshow that are being used as Ukrainian anti-Russian propaganda, but the previous elections speak for themselves with Southern Ukraine standing firmly and overwhelmingly in opposition to Zelensky. It's more likely to think of the Southern regions as voting "no confidence" rather than voting for the Ukrainian side in 2019. I think Eastern Ukraine has a right to self-sovereignty and the Russians are more likely to provide that. I think Southern Ukraine does as well. I don't think there is any way to establish a clear border though. Any established border is either overwhelmingly unfair to Ukraine as it cuts off 80% of the country's wealth sources while giving Russia a monopoly over large swaths of the Black Sea, or overwhelmingly unfair to ethnic minorities living in said wealth source regions as the next natural step of the Ukrainian government then would be to start genociding them (legally) by importing ethnic Ukrainians to take over industry and prevent a repeat of any conflict that comes about by ensuring anti-Russian insurgents are embedded firmly in the region.
>>21669 So, if the current situation goes on as it is, Ukraine will only get poorer and weaker, especially as more-and-more people immigrate due to the nonexistent economy? Because in that case Russians in Russia just have to lay back and wait, except if Ukraine makes a move that they can't ignore. If this is correct, then I assume that Russia is just posing to in order scare Ukraine into doing nothing, except that Bidup and company want to see some real escalation.
>>21671 Yes. That's why I have been confused by the current Russian stance. Putin has been pretty chill up until last June because it was clear that eventually Ukraine would "give in" and meet Russia's demands in order to restore normalcy, or go even more bankrupt when Nord Stream 2 was completed. Something has the Russians spooked. I don't know if it was the blatant disregard for maritime law by US/British navies sailing warships into Russian waters and refusing to apologize, the results of the 2019 elections with Odessa "voting for Zelenksy," the way the EU sanctioned Belarus over the plane incident, recent polling showing that people in traditionally Russia-aligned regions are not seeing Russia favorably, Turkish drones (and how they were used against Armenia- soon to be produced in Ukraine) having them spooked, some combination pf the above, or what, but the Russians about-faced and went on the offensive when time appeared to be on their side.
>>21672 Could the US elections or something about Shina play a part in this? Also, is the Donbass also that rich and important area from a Russian perspective? Because if yes, then stabilizing the situation and integrating it into the Russian economy is something they have start as quickly as possible if they see something big coming where they need every ounce of strength, so maybe the reason lies outside of Ukraine.
>>21673 The only things Donbass region has is coal and industrial manufacturing. Russia has wanted to increase coal production for a while since there is more demand than supply for it, but I'm not sure that would be worth the economic sanctions. Alternatively Russia already has their industrial-base in that general region so nabbing Mariupol would give them better supply lines for transporting raw goods but that's about it. Again, the international sanctions mean it would be at least a decade or two before Russia would really see the fruits of either investment.
>>21668 We just don't know what the rules of engagement are yet since we're only able to approach great power war strategy with Cold War MAD scenarios in consideration. Russia is waving nuclear armageddon over the table but obviously neither side wants to escalate it to that point and it's a psy-op to scare boomers to get them to back down. Whether it works on the modern cocky NATO leadership is to be seen.
>Russian officials have hinted that if their security concerns aren’t addressed they could place nuclear weapons in sensitive places — perhaps near the U.S. coastline — potentially igniting a confrontation with echoes of the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis https://web.archive.org/web/20220116144018/https://twitter.com/nytimesworld/status/1482724350478401538
Does anybody here have any resources concerning infantry minor tactics in the Russo-Ukrainian war? Anything to do with how combat plays out, how troops are equipped and organised etc. Looking for pretty much anything to do with this topic.
>>21668 > you don't want to kill people at the slightest disagreement depends on the disagreement
>>21676 I can see the playing the first move. Ukraine getting into NATO would mean they would be screeching at every meeting and opportunity to host nuclear weapons to stop Russia. Though if anything that would be what leads to nuclear war.
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>>21677 >minor infantry tactics I'll second that, I've never given it much thought. I'm going to guess that they will be pretty similarly Soviet in thought, i.e. basic commands given at Battalion level, expected to be carried out with even limited communication. It doesn't appear to me as if Ukraine has gone over to Western-NATO thought of allowing even platoon leaders control to exploit tactical advantages into larger victories. FWIW, this channel deserves a subscription. They do good breakdowns and infographics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U26SNwTH8p0
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>>21635 They brought CRBN equipment as well: >I find it a bit disconcerting to know that Russia is deploying RKhM-6 Povozka chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear (CBRN) reconnaissance vehicles. The onboard laboratory enables the automatic detection of chemical and radioactive substances. What are they planning? >The closest unit to Ruzhino station is 16th Radiation, Biological and Chemical Defence Brigade of the Eastern Military District based in Lesozavodsk. One of the vehicles seen on the train matches an RHM-6 Chemical Reconnaissance Vehicle. https://archive.is/lzDhI https://twitter.com/Andy_Scollick/status/1483141685408415749 BLOWOUT SOON FELLOW STALKER
>>21687 The US started standardizing/issuing CBRN equipment for Stryker teams in either 2010 or 2014 (don't remember) and asked NATO to do the same, so it makes sense that they would be part of standard outfitting for light vehicle operations in Russia too. Or it could be a massive shitpost. Or the sensationalists are broken clocks and Russia actually does plan to go through the exclusion zone in order to assault Kiev directly from the Belarussian side of the border.
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>>21687 >Battle of Chernobyl at the end of Clear Sky will become reality let it come
>>21695 >CBRN The soviets had dedicated CBRN at the Division level I believe, I dunno if the Russians got enough funding to actually do it. Now, what about the Russians deliberately striking Chernobyl and making the fallout drift towards Europe as an idea?
>>21699 that would be the equivalent of a nuclear attack (from a political perspective, obviously it's a dirty bomb but there wouldn't be any differentiation) and grounds for total war in NATO's eyes.
>>21685 one of the earlier Russian justifications for increasing troops on the Ukraine border was that a US PMC had supposedly been seen moving chemical weapons through the area. cbrn equipment is a pretty logical escalation to such a threat.
>NEW: UK Defense Secretary @BWallaceMP just announced in the Commons that UK will supply light anti-armor defensive weapons systems to Ukraine as part of continuing support under Op Orbital. >Wallace: “We have taken the decision to supply Ukraine with a light, anti-armour, defensive weapon. A small number of UK personnel will also provide early-stage training for a short period of time, within the framework of Operation ORBITAL, before then returning to the UK https://archive.is/4lbnK https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1483142150196011012
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>>21704 So you could say, they're sending a Light Brigade? I know brigades are larger nowadays
>>21676 Well why wouldn't they? According to their experience the Cuban Missile Crisis achieved exactly what they wanted. Of course that ended up touch and go there for a while because the Russians underestimated just how extreme the Americans would take the stationing of missiles in Cuba and they might be again underestimating the American response. Especially since America has Uncle Scratch-and-Sniff instead of John Kennedy in the saddle this time.
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So, which side am I supposed to root for? The Ukrainians or the Separatists? Maybe neither?
>>21711 There are no good guys in this war. Personally I'm rooting for the Russians on this one since their rule would bring greater political stability to that part of Europe.
>>21711 One side purged their faggots, the other side embraced them. The choice isn't hard.
>>21711 Always root against the Russians for the rape of two million German women after WWII, alongside 50-100.000 murders in Soviet occupied Berlin alone. The only good Russkie is a dead one.
>>21715 Didn't the Ukrainians do most of the raping?
>>21715 Ok. But what if >>21718 is right? I mean i get you. Russians did a lot of warcrimes in ww2 and let's just not talk about that britain doesn't aknowledge the russian warcrimes. Yes that's a thing But (atleast alt-right) russkies are alright.
>>21714 Being edgy doesn't mean shit in real life. Basic left/right or progressive/conservative is for internet fights and elections, none of that matters in real life.
>>21711 Why should you root for anyone. You are not a big player. Just look and watch how the situation develops >>21720 Well technically nothing matters. In real life tge only thing that matters is how many kids you have.
>>21720 Getting rid of harmful subversive groups isn't edgy what so ever.
>>21720 >Basic left/right or progressive/conservative is for internet fights and elections, none of that matters in real life. Which retarded country with nu-politics are you from to unironically believe this? Are you American? You must be an American, since your political climate is the single most childish and dumbed down in the entire planet. "Nuffin matters, durr, it's all a larp dood!"
>>21723 All electoral politics is grandstanding shit.
>>21719 >>21715 This is one common misconception that /pol/ got wrong. It was not >Russians raping Germans It was >Atheist Communists raping Christians The Christian communities of Eastern Europe lamost unanimously sided with Hitler during WWII against the atheist communists. WWII was a holy war in Eastern Europe, not a political one, and they lost. The atheists proceeded to rape and pillage until the Eastern Orthodox church threatened to rebel in Russia/Ukraine causing them to move West to begin the raping in Germany. They were able to cover up Eastern European war crimes more easily though. Putin represents a continuation of the theological state broken by communism so I am prone to side Russian against Ukraine and Poland against communist atheist Belarus.
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>Something new on #Russia's state TV: On multiple shows, experts and pundits are claiming that the principle of MAD (mutually assured destruction) is obsolete and trying to convince the audiences that Russia could prevail over the U.S. in a nuclear war. https://archive.is/AE4Q0 https:/twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1483462529825361923 NATO SecGen Stoltenberg says in the next few days the alliance will deliver to Russia written responses to Moscow's proposals for changes to the way the alliance operates https://megalodon.jp/2022-0119-0332-51/https://twitter.com:443/Liveuamap/status/1483468501771771908 >#BREAKING Blinken and Lavrov to hold talks in Geneva on Friday, according to Kommersant newspaper >US officials say #Russia could launch an attack on #Ukraine at any point, possibly between this month and February https://archive.is/QBI5L https://twitter.com/guyelster/status/1483470180613304323 >Markets in Russia continue plummeting due to the realization that Putin is aiming to start a regional war https://archive.is/zCpQj https://twitter.com/OlgaNYC1211/status/1483469558950285320 >Possible Russian invasion routes, says @csiserep. https://megalodon.jp/2022-0119-0332-23/https://twitter.com:443/KevinRothrock/status/1483470533031342082 >"No option is off the table" if #Russia "further invades Ukraine," @PressSec tells @WhiteHouse reporters. "We're now at a stage where Russia at any time could launch an attack on Ukraine." https://megalodon.jp/2022-0119-0338-07/https://twitter.com:443/W7VOA/status/1483492294728814598
>>21728 >MAD is obsolete MAD is obsolete. We've known it's a meme since the 80s and that damage is mitigated after the first four months. Chernobyl cemented it was a meme when life came back to the exclusion zone. The only mutually assured destruction in MAD is that of the administrative state. Why do you think the USA and USSR had the same oil companies operating in them? They just didn't want a direct conflict so they used MAD to scare normal people. The age of technology means you can administer from anywhere though so you don't have to have all your leaders centralized in one spot.
>falling for western propaganda last thing Putin wants is to invade the shithole known as the Ukraine. Worst case scenario will be Russia bombing NATO missile sites.
>>21728 I like how 2A predicts more or less what I predicted as an amateur from purely on topographical maps and road maps. The only difference being they are even less optimistic about what Ukraine can hold.
>>21728 If the russians invade Ukraine, will the west do anything?
>>21732 Likely economic sanctions against heads of state and Germany might shut down Nord Stream 2. Keyword might. The British might supply troops under-the-table and the US will almost certainly fund insurgents. NATO can't legally respond in such a scenario but Eastern European countries might independently come to Ukraine's aid (specifically Poland and the Baltics) since they will be next on the chopping block. The French are up in the air since they love a good war but they can't afford it right now.
>>21730 That doesn't mean glow-in-the-darks won't spark a war for the ratings.
>>21735 This could unironically be the feds starting a war with Russia because Biden is extremely unpopular and Populist Republicans intend to impeach him over Burisma when they come to power in 2022. A war would get blamed on a Republican house/senate while Russia in Ukraine would obfuscate evidence against Huntet.
>>21734 >Likely economic sanctions against heads of state and Germany might shut down Nord Stream 2. On that note, the West just gave up the plan of disconnecting Russia from the SWIFT network, because it would cause short-term financial disturbances, and they'd just build their own network with Shina anyway. Both of them are true, and it is an oddly sane conclusion overall, but it's also quite spineless, and I hope it only encourages Poutinne to push even harder.
Ah right, Hunter doesn't matter in the Burisma investigations. The real point is it would expose political corruption in the Turkey-Qatar pipeline and stop shit dead in its tracks if Hunter's shit im Ukraine gets his daddy impeached, so they may want a war as a last-ditch effort to keep the political leviathan in power.
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>Good lord that is a lot of NLAWs. We’re looking at each pallet containing 18 launchers and at least 12 pallets in each C-17 which is 216 each. x5 is 1080 launchers. That is a lot of anti-armor capability the UK sent. https://megalodon.jp/2022-0119-0727-28/https://twitter.com:443/NotWoofers/status/1483518355042676743 >Canada promises Ukraine financial help as it stares down threat of Russian invasion https://megalodon.jp/2022-0119-0732-15/https://mobile.twitter.com:443/CBCWorldNews/status/1483372824345591810 Is Zelenskyy the next Chiang Kai-Shek? The next Ashraf Ghani?
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What would Switzerland do in the unlikely chance some unhinged optionally rogue actor successfully assassinates some bigshot politician in Geneva before the talks end? Image unrelated.
>>21715 The Germans got what they deserved, to be honest.
>>21740 >Is Zelenskyy the next Chiang Kai-Shek? The next Ashraf Ghani? Nah. Both of them were humble and smart enough to keep their mouths shut and take the bribes quietly while putting up a strong front, even if Ghani cracked near the end and ran with the money. Zelensky is too stupid to keep his mouth shut (constantly screeching for gibs) and can't even hide the bribes he took from the US properly to the point where they had to install a corpse and create mass instability to keep the investigation from finding them in the wrong. He's worse. I fully expect him to flee into the night before Kiev ever gets surrounded. More importantly don't compare Chiang to those two. Yes in the latter years he became jaded and then corrupt, but at least early on he was a military man who actually served on the battlefield, who really did want to unify China (and nominally did before the Communists stabbed him in the back) to deal with internal and external forces like warlords, the CCP, and Imperial Japan.
>>21745 How about Fulgencio Batista or Nguyễn Văn Thiệu? I forgot their names when I was making that post.
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>>21746 Not the other anon but I can respond. Batista´s problem to hold onto power was that couldn´t non-radicalize the non-commie peasants and the middle classes on time by doing the necessary land reform because that would upset Uncle Sam and Mr.Lansky, making him look even more of a puppet. As of Nguyễn, not an expert on that topic, but from what I read he inherited the shitshow that left Diem and the cronies that succeded him without doing enough to disassociate from them, his ally (US) basically self-sabotaging themselves in the war effort in all senses and again, unpopularity due to no land reform so the peasants don´t get the idea that the commies are shit. Again, no Vietnam War-fag but. Why didn´t decades before the US simply told the frogs to get out and fuck off and try to make Ho-Chi-Min pull a Tito (Vietnam historically hates the chinks and there wasn´t on that moment Sino-Soviet split so URSS wasn´t really an option)? Is not like after that the americans didn´t fucked over the frogs in more important shit to them like Argelia and they still in their sphere so I doubt the frogs would screech so much for that piece of jungle that they get really out of burger influence.
>>21750 >Spoiler I can answer that one. Burgers tried to pawn Indochina off onto the Chinese in the early 1900s and the Chinese told America to fuck off because they weren't getting involved in French Indochina even without the French. It was a power vacuum with nobody to fill it except the Japanese or the Communists if the French were to leave.
>>21723 I didn't say "nothing matters", i said general ideologies don't matter. I live in a country where far-right and far-left held hands for small gains. And i see that happen in literally every country, not just mine. I am sure Putin doesn't hate fags for his religiousness but to be a opposing block to modern western values. If he gave a fuck about religion he would care about the rampant alcohol and drug issues in the country. >>21722 All fags in the west suck because external powers infiltrated their group to the point no "lgbtq+ friendly" group care about fags. Most Programmers, gamers, musicians, movie directors and artists also suck because they are in infiltrated environments. Russia is already allies with Chinx soo them being le ebin based doesn't matter, these cancers don't naturally grow.
>>21725 >>Atheist Communists raping Christians Oh yeah, this is fucking true. I remember coming to some historical cathedral or some shit once and they started talking about how the communists raped the nuns.
>>21715 >rape and pillage across occupied soviet union >nooooo you cant do the same to me Fuck, I don't know who's more insufferable tankies or germantards. You reap what you sow
>>21752 You really are a retard aren't you.
>this Romanian website keeps crashing right before a war is about to start in Eastern Europe Coincidence?
As I finish another day of wageslavery and watch this video (https://youtu.be/-zuskT9_24Y), a sudden wave of complete jealously has washed over me. This loony dude is living his best life killing ukronazis and freeing himself from the clutches of the american empire; I bet he doesn't feel existential angst over pointless wageslaving. Am I retarded for wanting to emulate this guy and go to Donbass? Or at least go to graduate school in Russia; I hate the USA so much.
>>21756 No anon, you don't understand. It's okay when the Germans did it because every single man and woman living in the USSR were all communists, and communists aren't people, so it doesn't count.
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I am not convinced that there will be a big happening. The gold prices haven't spiked, like they have prior to Crimean annexation.
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>>21759 I never understood the whole ukrainiams = nazis meme. If they were national socialists they wouldn't be a retarded democratic country with Nato assraping them 24/7 and controlling their every move. What about Ukraine says NatSoc? Literally nothing.
>>21756 >>21761 >there are retards on imageboards in the current year who still believe Germans raped the local populace The absolute state of /k/
>>21767 What did they do then?
>21767 In any war of that scale things like rape and murder of civilians are gonna happen. That doesn't mean the german high comand and leadership wanted those things to happen, ally propaganda asside, they wanted to have good PR for the locals after all. But loose cannons and simple psychos doing unoficial excesses in such a chaotic scenario are bound to happen, even if they are far and between cases.
>>21766 It's just leftists who think mercenaries of war = far-right extremists because the technical/skilled militaries of Europe that fight most of Europe's international wars have slowly been phasing out of official militaries and into PMCs due to wokeness and other bullshittery among the rank-and-file. When the Germans and French purged their military of moderate conservatives a few years ago, everyone went over to Ukraine or South Africa because they wanted to be soldiers as a living and the end result was Western European civilians collectively screaming that their plan backfired.
>>21771 >slav skinheads with larp tattoos, owned by a democratic government that sucks jew dick and loves feminism = national socialists Why is the modern political climate so fucking dumb. Azov is about as natsoc as Lenin.
>>21772 Ok then
>>21766 It's quite literally just a Russian propaganda line meant to agitate retard westerners and astroturf on internet forums. Just search the word "nazi" alongside some bordering Western-aligned country on RT. They constantly whine that Ukraine, the Baltics and Poland are nazi countries and make false equivalences hinting at that. Criticising the USSR during WW2, pointing to small demonstrations that have some nazi flags or whatever, WW2 axis veteran meetings, having a nationalist party in power, forcing the Russian minority to learn the native language, anything goes and it's non-fucking-stop with Russian propaganda. And RT is the LEAST offensive when it comes to Russian state media, remember. Sputnik and the thousands of content farmed blogs and fake news sites are way worse.
>>21767 >there are retards on imageboards in the current year who still believe clean wehrmacht myth. Anon, the only absolute drooling retard in this thread is you,.
>>21779 Why did 1.4 million Russians fight for the Germans?
>>21783 Because they were generally Eastern Orthodox/Catholic Christians fighting against an Atheist/Communist regime that wanted them dead. Nobody here is claiming the Soviets were clean, either; the world is not always binary.
To the butthurt belters ITT: The greatest time of advancement and progress were made while you guys were under German and Russian boots. Coincidence?
>>21764 cup and handle
>>21783 Commie regime was also incredibly ruthless and you'll always have fifth columnist,especially in totalitarian states. In case of soviet union it was mostly ukranians,Russian POW's were indeed in some cases collaborating with Germans. Ironically even though most Hiwis where ukranians, they got most of raping and pillaging done to them by the germans. A definition of useful idiots. And history repeats itself. West will throw ukraine under the bus and use them as cannon fodder the second the war breaks out and they're too stupid to see it. Also,read some books, I'm not in the mood to undo decades of your cumulative mental retardation. You have plenty of sources both German/Russian/ Western that attest to the war crimes done on Eastern Front. If you're not only historically illiterate you could always try some audio books.
>>21786 Ironically, all three empires were ruled by Germans, and were the best nations of Europe. Coincidence?
>>21779 >I learn my history from wikipedia and youtube: The Post If you weren't the thread's designated drooling retard, you'd know that rape was one of the worst crimes you could commit in the German military. Your punishment from being caught ranged from being beaten up all the way to being hanged. >inb4 hurr that's only in theory, in reality they must have raped! durr hurr Wrong, the German military was strict, unlike the nigger-tier excuse of an army that were the Bolsheviks and the dumbfuck burgers who'd rape the local populace and then say they dindu nuffin. Were there rapings by Germans? Yes, but they were extremely rare. The German military even provided prostitute services in the rear lines quite often to make sure the men were sexually satisfied. Read some fucking books, nigger. Now your next line will be "you...you... you wehraboo!" Keep on being a dumbass manchild who still believes "there's no good side in war, nuh-uh!" Fucking reddit tier opinions in this thread.
>>21794 Imagine being so desperate when somebody challenges your echo chamber opinions. Fuck man,literally sub Saharan African tier IQ. You guys are literally in the same cesspit as flat earthers, there's no arguing absolute mongoloids like you, my mistake for thinking you can reason with wehrtard that got most of his information from /pol/ and stormfront who just repeat German narrative after WW2. You literally have no idea what you're talking about you stupid nigger. Goddam I miss 8/k/, at least that place had more quality posters.
>>21794 >It didn't happen because muh rules I'm sorry do you actually buy into the propaganda that soldiers are unthinking killing machines or something equally retarded as well? The Americans had similar standards even back then and yet we both know how rampant rape is in the US military to this day. Islamic militaries flat-out execute you for rape (and make the soldier suffer if the enemy surrendered and rape took place anyways) and yet it is common practice among their rank-and-file. There is a difference between recognizing something as criminal action vs intentional warcrimes, however you've gone off the deep end to argue that it never happened.
>>21796 Don't bother with him strelok. He obviously has negative IQ. If he actually read some books as he recommends to others he'd realize both sides where shit in the war, and not propagating exact words edgy 16 year old skinhead wannabes regurgitate.
>>21786 Would be big if that were true. We were on par with Scandinavia before ww2. Might as well say that russia experienced greatest advancement during getting assraped by mongols.
>>21593 >Wokeness are the Boxers. I think Boxers here would be the middle-aged vets and young adults with an affinity to weapons and training, a huge chunk who can do tough stuff but ultimately lack the finer details to take on the bigger parties. In this case it would be military infrastructure including specialized vehicles with high-tech armament, in the Boxers' case it was actual bullets going fast as fuck unlike the cheap chinese rounds who were glorified pellets who the boxers thought could be rebound from their bodies when also using heavy clothes. Wokeness could be the small vestige of eunuchs' entourages pestering the empress and who thought they were untouchable although not near as powerful like they were in their ballsy ball-less rule back in the heyday.
>>21754 In Spain the commies did some real hardcore stuff to the church, when they went to South America after losing the war their most fervent opposing party was the spaniard-descendants themselves due to often being aligned in social clubs thinly-veiled as christian fraternities. For many years being a commie or a leftist was synonymous with church burning and banging little boys in those countries, hence the harsh treatment when a kid/teenager displayed Marxist ideas (schools detained gommies to do extra homework/clean the classrooms)
>>21799 >We were on par with Scandinavia before ww2. Because daddy German and Russian teached you to stop being pajeets. Then you got too cocky in the Interwar period and then ended up under commie boots who would first plunder your countries and then destroy your birthrates. Anything to stop German and Russia rule!
>>21807 Nope, interwar period when we gained independence was when we we had most rapid advancement. When russmongol commies invaded they didn't even knew what toilet is and defecated in closets while washing their hands in toilets. We were perfectly fine before orc invasion, but ended up almost as shitty as the rest of russia when USSR collapsed.
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why is nothing happening yet
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>>21821 They just keep teasing us.
https://archive.is/Prwlz Well, FNN just spilled the beans without realizing it. It's Romania and Bulgaria who are forcing a NATO veto and demanding war with Russia. No wonder this Romanian site keeps having downtime.
>>21821 Maybe because the end goal isn't necessarily to invade Ukraine if Putin can get some guarantees? Though there seems to be groups so anti-Putin that they want Russia to be destroyed by taking them off of the SWIFT system and immediate "release" of Crimea. Also Ukraine is batshit crazy and who knows how retarded they'll become just because NATO gives them a few weapons and some pocket change. Things like this might derail talks to the point Russia moves ahead but we will see.
Someone more knowledgeable than me should make a new thread with a sitrep in the OP, because we are autosaging.
>>21828 Holy based
https://invidious.kavin.rocks/watch?v=ukPwA21V410 >Breaking: German Navy Chief Vice Admiral Kay-Achim Schönbach steps down after his comments He says Putin just wants some respect, and they should give it to him and work together against Shina. Needless to say he was fired immediately. Officially he asked to step down, obviously.
>>21848 Darn, you beat me to it. https://archive.is/ezSmb >"Putin deserves respect" - German vice admiral vacates his post after this speech >German Navy Inspector Vice Admiral Kay-Achim Schönbach has been unusually pragmatic in his assessment of Russia's intentions and the prospects for Western cooperation with Moscow. His remarks have since cost him his post. >Vice Admiral Kay-Achim Schönbach, Inspector of the German Navy, was in India on a tour of duty. The program included a meeting with his Indian counterpart and a discussion with representatives of a well-known Indian geopolitical think tank. >It was a profound conversation in which the Indian security experts expressed their concerns about the propagandistic and military escalation against Russia. They were not the only ones to be taken aback by the German Vice Admiral's statements: >"Is Russia really interested in having this small strip of Ukrainian soil, even in annexing it to the country? No, this is nonsense. I think Putin is probably putting pressure on us (((because))) he can do that. >He knows we are divided. He is dividing the European Union. But what he really wants is respect. He wants a relationship at eye level, he wants respect. And my God, giving some respect doesn't cost much, even nothing. >So, if I were asked - I'm not asked - I would say it's easy to give him the respect he demands - and probably deserves." >The naval officer also commented on the issue of the prospects of the Crimean peninsula, which administratively belonged to Ukraine between 1954 and 2014: >"The Crimean peninsula is gone and will never come back. That is a fact." >Already on Saturday night, a shitstorm against Schönbach began on social media. In response to Schönbach's remarks about Ukraine and Crimea, the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry summoned German Ambassador Anka Feldhusen. >Vice Admiral Schönbach was ordered to report to the Inspector General of the German Armed Forces, the Bild newspaper reported, and a spokesman for the German Defense Ministry told dpa: >"The content and choice of words of the statements in no way correspond to the position of the German Defense Ministry." >Schönbach himself announced in the evening via the press office of the Navy: >"I have just asked the Federal Minister of Defense to relieve me of my duties and responsibilities as Inspector of the Navy with immediate effect."
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>>21849 >Schon in der Nacht zum Sonnabend setzte in den Sozialen Medien ein Shitstorm gegen Schönbach ein.
>>21821 Because the Kremlin isn't stupid >>21828 Not only are they obsessed over miserable losers but also the miserable losers that tried to wipe them out. I feel sad for them.
>>21849 >posting an RT article in a thread about Russia stop embarrassing yourself, anon >"The Crimean peninsula is gone and will never come back. That is a fact." The man is a traitor and should've been at the very least dishonorably discharged instead of letting him resign. What kind of German would ever be for Russia, and a KGB ultracommie at that?
>>21856 >What kind of German would ever be for Russia, and a KGB ultracommie at that? Turn off Fox News you dumb mutt
>>21824 The eternal bulgarian at it again >>21852 Is that you, alphabet ex-BO?
>>21856 >What kind of German would ever be for Russia, and a KGB ultracommie at that? The rest of his comments may be seen as that. But pretending that Crimea is not owned by Russia is simply retarded. Crimea is far too important as a naval base and a warm sea port. They won't give it up and only WW3 would have the chance to see them lose it. Pretending that Crimea only needs to hold special elections or will be surrendered back to Ukraine is beyond retarded.
>>21864 And this problem would have never come up if the US had just kept its nose where it doesn't belong and hadn't started a color revolution in Ukraine. Similarly this current mess would be over if the US would simply guarantee that Ukraine would not be admitted to NATO.
>>21856 >What kind of German would ever be for Russia Currently? A smart one. Best bet for Germany would be good ties with Russia and splitting Eastern Europe into spheres of influences. Maybe wait (and incite) for an opportunity to kill the polish again, wouldn't be too hard. Throughout all of history up till now, whenever Germany and Russia work together they are absolutely unstoppable. This isn't what actual German politicians are gonna do of course.
>>21852 Both Azov and their Russian counterpart are in actual combat. Who tf are you even?
If this boils into a hot war, I will be completely fine with it. The great shit-posting over the radio-waves has been amusing.
>>21856 Is anything he said wrong? If so, how? Does an adversary who is putting the saying "giving salt to your enemies" giving supplies to the enemy so they can maintain a level of dignity into practice not deserve a certain level of respect? He took advantage of the German people with oil because your government let him, and now you want to bite the hand that feeds you.
>>21870 >Who the fuck are you even? He's a troll who's asshurt about the other bumplocked thread and going around false flagging as a liberal retard.
>had a dream last night that Putin was backing off from Ukraine >until Belarus decided they wanted Ukraine instead and invaded them, prompting the Russians to move in i know it's insanity but what would actually happen if that went down?
>>21877 Belarus has said they don't want war with Ukraine but if Russia invades they will probably help. At bare minimum they have pre-approved Russia using Belarus as a staging ground in the event of a war.
>>21877 anon, literally nobody wants ukrane. It's a near bankrupt shithole on the outskirts of both Russia and Europe. All Putin wanted was the Crimea, which was already Russian to begin with. The rest is just the usual geopolitical struggle for authority between Russia and (((the west))).
Sitrep coming. Stand by
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>>21881 did something happen?
>>21882 The thread is saging.
New: >>21886

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