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Tank/afv thread Strelok 05/21/2020 (Thu) 08:20:08 No.561
A discussion thread about the most powerfull land vehicles and it's derivatives. Prototypes, historical, modern just needs to be an afv.
>>12462 What do you mean by that exactly? I don't think there is a DIY guide to make a modern MBT in your garage, but you could find design documents from decades ago that describe how certain tanks were developed.
>>12462 there are some videos online of people making their own track treads and there are tracks you can retrofit to standard vehicles instead of wheels and shit
>>12501 In a modelling program such as Blender or something I don't know, because I would like to know more how other modeller fags does it. I deleted World of Tanks from my computer already because I don't want to play that damn pay2win garbage anymore and War Thunder or Armored Warfare is the same pay2win shit. So to be more specific a guide how to design plausible looking fictive tanks for vidya gaems. >>12506 fugg I don't even have a garage.
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>>12516 In that case your best bet is to read tanker's memoirs and watch all those videos of The Chieftain showing what's inside a metal box. Then you might get a feel for what's under the armour. Next you should try to learn about construction techniques (just basic things like how riveting works or what shapes are possible with a cast turret), and then you might be able to come up with something that doesn't look retarded at a glance. So, even if you just want a 3D model that has nothing inside, you should start designing it from the inside and keep in mind that form follows function. I'd say you should start with coming up what weapons and armour it should have, and then decide how fast it needs to be, because that gives you an idea about the size of the engine. Then come up with a very basic layout, then decide what construction techniques are used, and what kind of suspension system and tracks are required. Then you can start coming up with visually distinct elements.
>>12518 Okay sounds like a plan. >tanker memoirs I've briefly looked at a search engine for a german tanker memoirs but I just receive result from fucking amazon site where I would have to pay up for that. >Then come up with a very basic layout, then decide what construction techniques are used, and what kind of suspension system and tracks are required. Then you can start coming up with visually distinct elements. hmm I'll try starting off with WW2 styled tanks then as those much simpler than modern MBTs. And where can I get more info on things like suspension system, tracks, cannons etc? At fucking Jewpedia they have more pages about missile systems than cannons for example and at the army guide website it doesn't have any good pages about tank cannons either.
>>12520 you probably do need an outdoor workspace to do anything serious. But you can do a lot of brazing with propane or MAP gas on small metal frames if you're building a model. Then you can skip a lot of expensive welding equipment. But you have to do some research on torch welding and brazing and make sure you get proper PPE and don't inhale anything that's going to put the magic in you
>>12529 Sorry if I wasn't clear about it before but I wasn't talking about making a tank scale model in the garage, what I meant was making a plausible looking 3D tonk model made in a program. Which this anon answered my question: >>12518
As stupid as it might sound, could integrating cork into the armour scheme of a tank or IFV help with buoyancy? Or is there an artificial material with similar characteristic? Although adding floats to the side of the vehicle might be an overall better idea if we want to turn it amphibious.
>>12654 I would think the crew, a full squad and some equipment would develop more buoyancy than the small amount of cork (at the expense of armor) you could integrate into the structure of the vehicle. Cork will make no measurable difference.
>>12654 cork is super flammable. Certain companies back in the dot com boom used to stack computers on cheap racks and insulate them from the metal by just laying the motherboard on top of cork. Every once in awhile a whole rack of computers would go up in flames because the cork got warm and dropped a drip of oil onto the CPU underneath it and combusted
>>12656 What would be the best way to make an MBT amphibious? The perfect system could be permanently installed and allow it to cross a river while under fire, but realistically speaking something that can be installed so that it can infiltrate to the other side while there are no enemies around would be a big boon already.
>>12663 It's not possible with current technology and for the foreseeable future. To make your MBT swim/float you need to create buyoancy for at minimum 60 tons. Look at a Siebel ferry, German flak ships in WW2, how big they have to be to carry 4 flak guns and equipment. This is the size we're talking about here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siebel_ferry
>>12664 What would be the heaviest amphibious vehicle that modern technology permits? It seems like most of them are around 20 tons, but I can't seem to find one designed before the late 90s.
>>12667 At 555 tons it really is heavy, and yet I don't think it would be more effective than even a PT-76.
All attempts at amphibious tanks can be found here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_vehicle#Tanks Seems the PT-76 is the the heaviest who was truly amphibious, M551 is too but hull is made from aluminum lol. Anything over about 20 tons needs some really goofy extra equipment.
>>12669 I've found two heavier vehicles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expeditionary_Fighting_Vehicle > 36 tons, but it's also longer and wider than even an Abrams >a product of the American military-industrial complex that got cancelled https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_05_amphibious_fighting_vehicle >a family amphibious vehicles that weight 26.5 tons >light tank version carriers a 105mm gun >is chink And there is also this pair of vehicles that are not heavier, in fact I'm including them because they are quite light https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/cobra-ifv https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/belgium/acec-cobra-tank-cobra-25-and-90 >IFV and tonk with diesel-electric drive >even the light tank with a 90mm gun is only 9.5 tons Obviously none of these come even close to an MBT, but I have to wonder what would happen if you took a vehicle the size and weight of the EFV, gave it electric drive, and use the weight-savings to increase its protection and firepower. I also came across this thing: https://invidious.kavin.rocks/watch?v=vIn-x-FZvkY https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PT-76#Soviet_Union >GSP (Ob'yekt 55) or GSP-55 – This is a tracked self-propelled amphibious ferry. It consists of two non-interchangeable left and right half units with large outer pontoons. The units use many components of the PT-76, for instance parts of the suspension, the (modified) engine, the electrical system and the steering system. A GSP ferry could carry up to 52 tonnes and had a speed of 6 km/h. Maybe a similar ferry that can be set up significantly faster is a better solution for heavier vehicles.
And also there are some strange abominations that are not amphibious at all, but they are still quite fascinating.
>>12663 >>12665 Flotation screens work pretty well for smaller tanks, but they're generally limited to around 40 tons and generally aren't much good for contested landings. The British experimented with a screen-like system for their 50-ton Centurions, but this was specifically for big Overlord-style beach landings and not something you could install in the field. A lot of heavier MBTs do have some provision for a snorkel, but these have even worse limitations and I'd be surprised if anybody actually used them in a real conflict. My personal favorite is the WW2 Japanese system, which used a removable bow and stern. These could fire their guns from the water like a modern amphib IFV, except once you're on the shore you can just eject the floats so you don't have to haul around a bunch of dead weight. The floats could be reinstalled in the field with some effort, and if necessary you could drive around with them still attached. It's hard to estimate how big of a tank you could move like this, but I'd give a conservative estimate of 30-35 tons. The largest of the Japanese tanks was around 20 tons without the floats, but this obviously wasn't the limit of the technology.
>>12689 Why is digital camo so popular when it doesn't look natural or blend in as well?
>>12710 >A lot of heavier MBTs do have some provision for a snorkel, but these have even worse limitations and I'd be surprised if anybody actually used them in a real conflict. And considering how cheap and plentiful guided munitions are in this day and age, even a pontoon bridge would be destroyed in rather short order. This is why I'm starting to believe that a vehicle that can't cross a river on its own would be rather hard to use in a war in Europe. Floats do seem to be the solution, but you'd somehow need to design a tank that weights about half as much as the average MBT and yet still good enough for the job.
>>12772 Why wouldn't you just air lift your tanks and troops in? No reason to drive them around when you only want them for siege engines. Drones and grunts are doing 90% of the work any way.
>>12774 Because cargo aircraft are not designed to bring tanks from one side of a river to the other one, especially when said river is the frontline and then enemy AA is right on the other bank. And there are enough big rivers in close proximity that you'd have to constantly stop your advance to build airfields where those planes can land, and then load them up with tanks, and pray that the enemy is too inept to take them our with some MANPADSs.
>>12774 Isn't the weight of a tank that can be transported by air about the same than of tanks that can be made amphibious? You can't transport MBT's by air, those tanks you can are small enough to be turned into amphibious vehicle. Unless you have massive super helis that can carry 60 tons, or maybe an airship, using planes to transport tanks about a river isnt gonna fly.
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Regarding amphibious tanks, maybe the solution is a turretless tank with a weapon station that has an autocannon. The autocannon would be good enough against anything that's not an MBT so the lack of a turret is not a factor against them, and I imagine that a vehicle that combines the principles of the Strv 103 with modern technology would fare adequately in a tank battle.
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>>12904 >STRV tonk BALLIN' TIME
>>12904 And after some thinking I've realized that it would just bring in way too many complications. The best solution still seems to be a turret with a gun in the 75-90mm range that has a funky autoloader that brings up the RoF close to an autocannon's, and then strap some fancy missiles to the turret sides for the occasional MBT.
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Is there somewhere a formula that gives me results of how much damage a specific tank projectile can do? Obviously the caliber scale and the cartridge length determines how effective a AP, APCR, APHE and APFSDS projectiles are, but how can I also know how much a HE, HEAT, Buckshot 00 ammo does damage? For HE I only know so far its amount and what chemical composite it is determines its power, HEAT has a additional variable for the copper lining being used and Buckshot rounds are determined somewhat similarly to a AP round. Also if possible some info about incendiary/chemical rounds would be neat. Because I want to write a program for video games (not simulators) that gives me plausible values of how much damage a ammunition type does and the associated cannon weapon, I have these 4 variables to work with which is Damage (direct hit), damage (explosion), distance and fulldamagedistance (determines the radius before damage fall off kicks in), well I already wrote such program but the calculation for it are pure fantasy and have no close resemblance to reality. Example output: Caliber: 50mm, Ammo: APHE Base Damage: 200 Directdamage: 400 Splashdamage: 150 Splashradius: 100 Caliber: 50mm, Ammo: APCR Base Damage: 200 Directdamage: 600 Splashdamage: 100 Splashradius: 50 Caliber: 50mm, Ammo: HE Base Damage: 200 Directdamage: 100 Splashdamage: 400 Splashradius: 160 I haven't factored in yet the cartridge length because for some reason people who write basic info about tanks have the tendency to omit them for some stupid reason, which makes it harder to find the info for it.
>>13520 >Obviously the caliber scale and the cartridge length determines how effective a AP, APCR, APHE and APFSDS projectiles are That's not how any of this works. Instead of cartridge length the question is what kind of gunpowder used to propel the projectile, and how much of it is used. And even then, that alone tells you nothing without the barrel length. To begin with, there are guns that use bagged charges, so there is no cartridge to speak about (pic related). All of this is an incredibly complex subject with more variables than I can even think of, but luckily all of it can be ignored, because what really matters is the initial velocity of the projectile. Calibre is also not a number that denotes an universal truth. E.g. a 120mm mortar shell holds about as much explosives as a 155mm howitzer shell, because the former has a much lower muzzle velocity, therefore the walls of the projectile can be much thinner (as the forces acting on it are significantly lower) and it leaves more room for explosives. Which leads to the other point: shell construction determines how the power released by the burning powder is used. After all, a heavier projectile launched by the same powder charge will travel slower than a lighter projectile, but it will retain energy better. But knowing the weight and velocity of a projectile means nothing without also knowing the ballistic coefficient (BC). Here is a quick summary on wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_coefficient As for various projectile types, high explosive can kill either with the blast wave itself or with the fragments launched by the explosion. The latter is usually more important, simply because fragments travel further than a blast wave. Every single fragments is like a projectile unto itself, but their size, weight and BC obviously varies, as they are simply fragments of the steel wall of the shell. But even that is not necessarily true, as there are pre-fragmented shell walls (think of a ˝pineapple˝ hand grenade, it looks like a pineapple so that it will break into more uniform fragments), and there are modern shells that use what are basically bearing balls cast into either the explosive itself or into the walls of the shell. With computers we can make all kinds of simulations, but in the end of the day you need actual tests to determine, for example, how many fragments are usually produced on average by a specific kind of shell, what is the chance of hitting a certain sized target a certain distance away from the explosion, and what kind of damage it causes. After all, flesh and metals behave quite differently if they are hit by something. And speaking of metal, armour penetration is also a complex subject unto itself, with material density, angle of hit, and other nice things. Again, we can model it somehow but in the end of the day this too needs real world testing. Again, we are in luck, because it's usually compiled into nice tables that tell you how much RHE (rolled homogenous armour equivalent) a certain gun penetrates at a certain distance. And the armour of modern tanks is usually given in RHE too, despite being significantly different from RHE. But that's usually not the case with ww2 tanks, and for those angled armour is already a big enough complication that people usually just rely on real-life data to know what kind of gun could knock out what kind of tank at a given distance. If you want to see some formulas, then this is an interesting read, but keep in mind that it only works with ww2 warships, and not with tanks and whatnot: http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-109.php >I want to write a program for video games (not simulators) that gives me plausible values of how much damage a ammunition type does and the associated cannon weapon I think you should look still take a look at simulators. Or if you are not autistic enough for that, then just watch some gameplay of War Thunder to see a damage system that is (supposed to) model damage in a relatively realistic fashion.
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>>13521 >That's not how any of this works. Instead of cartridge length the question is what kind of gunpowder used to propel the projectile, and how much of it is used. And even then, that alone tells you nothing without the barrel length. To begin with, there are guns that use bagged charges, so there is no cartridge to speak about (pic related). All of this is an incredibly complex subject with more variables than I can even think of, but luckily all of it can be ignored, because what really matters is the initial velocity of the projectile. Calibre is also not a number that denotes an universal truth. Hmm I was thinking of the difference between the Tiger I and King Tiger II, where the King Tiger II has the same caliber but a longer cartridge length as shown here which I assume is the 88x822R round and while I was trying to find more about tank guns there was a page which claimed that a increase to 140mm from 120mm makes the weapon about 50% more powerful but the page did not provided any additional info of why it is so, so I thought there is some kind of a rule of thumb that a value can be derived off from it. Well then I stand corrected. >As for various projectile types, high explosive can kill either with the blast wave itself or with the fragments launched by the explosion. The latter is usually more important, simply because fragments travel further than a blast wave. Every single fragments is like a projectile unto itself, but their size, weight and BC obviously varies, as they are simply fragments of the steel wall of the shell. But even that is not necessarily true, as there are pre-fragmented shell walls (think of a ˝pineapple˝ hand grenade, it looks like a pineapple so that it will break into more uniform fragments), and there are modern shells that use what are basically bearing balls cast into either the explosive itself or into the walls of the shell Alright this does give me some idea HE ammo works, but the thing is with the game project I'm working with it features enemies that are not human and have different health amount, for example in Doom 1 there is this Cacodemon enemy which has a HP of 400, if I would look at the Steel Beast penetration table for example this ammo "75mm 75/SA 50: PCOT-51P APCBC-T" it would need 2 shots to kill a single Cacodemon (assuming I take its RHAe penetration at face value) and for the "73mm SPG-9/2A28: PG-9N HEAT-T" round it needs 2x shoots too to kill that creature which doesn't sound too plausible too me. I could probably get away with this by just increasing the damage against soft-target by a factor of around 1.5-2.0x(*1) more or so. I also looked at the WoT wiki page here https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Tank:Germany and it only provides info about the basic AP round, nothing about the APCR/APCBC rounds or the HE/HEAT rounds. In this page: https://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/index.php?title=Ammunition_Data the HE/HESH values are shown in red and for Smoke values it is shown in orange which denotes that it is not actually a RHAe penetration value, if its not that then what is it? *1 Though it also begs the question since the creatures are not human like and thus have different organ composite that determines their health/strength which makes them that strong in the first place, but I suppose it is a topic for another day. >And speaking of metal, armour penetration is also a complex subject unto itself, with material density, angle of hit, and other nice things. Again, we can model it somehow but in the end of the day this too needs real world testing. Again, we are in luck, because it's usually compiled into nice tables that tell you how much RHE (rolled homogenous armour equivalent) a certain gun penetrates at a certain distance. And the armour of modern tanks is usually given in RHE too, despite being significantly different from RHE. But that's usually not the case with ww2 tanks hmm well I also looked at some WW2 themed mods such as Axis & Allies mod for Total Annihilation where all weapon damage is assumed to be in 1000m range, For example the "50mm KwK 38/39" gun does 320 damage and has various tables against other targets, and the "German 75mm KwK 42" gun does 1490 damage, which made me wonder how they came to this conclusion, the readme file for this mod doesn't provide any explanation how they are balancing this mod. >If you want to see some formulas, then this is an interesting read, but keep in mind that it only works with ww2 warships, and not with tanks and whatnot: Only for warships? Damn what a pity.
>>13526 I don't want to be mean, but you seem to confusing and conflating reality, models used to describe that reality, video games that are trying to simulate reality based on those models, and video games that use significantly more abstract models (e.g. a health point system) to rather inaccurately approximate reality. In other words, there is a lot to untangle here. >the difference between the Tiger I and King Tiger II, where the King Tiger II has the same caliber but a longer cartridge length Now I'm just being autistic pedantic here, but you are speaking about the main guns of those tank, more specifically the cartridges fired by those guns. And yes, the 8.8cm KwK 43 of the Tiger II has significantly higher performance than the 8.8cm KwK 36 of the Tiger I. As you can see on your picture, the case of the 88x822mm is both longer and overall thicker than what the 88x571mm has. It means higher case capacity, or more plainly there is more room inside to stuff in more gunpowder, which means you can burn more gunpowder to propel the shell. But the nominal length of the case is only used as part of the name because it's rare to have two cartridges of the same calibre that also have the same case length, so it's a handy way of naming them. But the point is that knowing the nominal length of the case is not that helpful, because as you can see most of them are not perfectly cylindrical, so you can't deduce how much powder goes into them, and that's why the case length is usually ignored when discussing the gun itself. >a increase to 140mm from 120mm makes the weapon about 50% more powerful but the page did not provided any additional info of why it is so There are pictures of those cartridges ITT: >>9428 >>9433 As you can see the case is indeed longer, therefore it holds more gunpowder, and that leads to higher performance. But again, reducing it to the length of the case is a gross oversimplification. >this Cacodemon enemy which has a HP of 400, if I would look at the Steel Beast penetration table for example this ammo "75mm 75/SA 50: PCOT-51P APCBC-T" it would need 2 shots to kill a single Cacodemon Armour penetration means that the projectile penetrates the armour and keeps on travelling. Pic related is a piece of armour that was penetrated by an armour piercing shell, that's why it has a hole on it. Obviously someone standing behind that armour plate where it was penetrated when it was being shot would be quite dead. Those RHAe values show how thick of an armour plate (in millimetres) could that projectile penetrate. It's an abstraction of real life that has nothing to do with hitpoints in Doom.
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>>13526 >>13535 >it needs 2x shoots too to kill that creature which doesn't sound too plausible too me Animals are not tanks, they work quite differently. For example, the only part that is really required for a human to live is the cerebellum, damage it and your victim dies instantly. You could surgically remove the rest of the brain, replace the heart with a mechanical pump, and also cut off the arms and legs, and that bastard would be still technically alive as long as you keep him alive. But again, damage the cerebellum and he dies. Now, the cerebellum is a rather small target, so aiming for it would be difficult, but what is easy is to stop the flow of blood to it. Cut an artery and he will start losing blood until there is simply not enough left in his circulatory system to supply the cerebellum with blood, and so he dies. Damage the heart and then his circulation collapses as there is nothing to keep up the blood pressure, and so his cerebellum doesn't any fresh blood. Destroy his spleens and he loses so much blood so quickly that he dies much quicker, but not as quickly as if you destroyed his heart. You can be also more indirect and cut the supply of oxygen to the blood, and then there will simply no fresh oxygen for his red blood cells to deliver to the cerebellum. One way of doing it is to strangle him, as breathing is what delivers air to the lungs where oxygen is taken out from it. You can even attack the very composition of the air, e.g. you can start a fire and somehow force him to inhale the smoke until he chokes. But I digress. What I want to say is that bullets usually kill humans and other animals by either causing internal bleeding or destroying major organs. Small animals can die from the shock of being shot. I don't know how it works, but my assumption is that their nerves try to deliver such a strong pain signal so suddenly that they fry their cerebellum. Second pic related show wound channels (they are using gelatine to simulate human tissue). It's a complicated can of worms, but as you can see there are two kind of marks here: the first one is caused by the projectile crushing the gelatine directly in front of it, and the secondary ones are caused by stretching the gelatine. As far as I understand, if somebody is being shot then this crushing and stretching can cause enough damage to lead to a sudden loss of blood that is enough to make circulation collapse and kill the target, even if no major organ is hit. Where these two things can meet is when you are either shooting at somebody wearing armour, or shooting at somebody who is behind an armour plate (like the crew of a tank). In this case the projectile first has to penetrate the armour then damage the fleshling behind it. The hide or scales of animals can also act as a form of armour, as steel is not the only form of armour. Indeed, modern tanks usually have layers of different materials in their armour. But I digress again. The point is that penetrating armour and killing animals is very different. Especially in this case, because we are speaking about fictional creatures with fictional anatomy. For all we know a Cacodemon might have no central nervous system that requires blood, and then killing him the same way you'd kill a human is futile, and you need to work with other principles.
>>13526 >>13536 >HE/HESH values are shown in red and for Smoke values it is shown in orange which denotes that it is not actually a RHAe penetration value, if its not that then what is it? HESH is a special thing, it is designed to deliver a shock wave to the armour plate that then rips out a piece of it on the other side. In the case of HE, I take it represent the armour that can be penetrated by the fragments coming from the exploding shell. Although the blast wave of the explosion can also damage equipment placed outside of the tanks (headlights, optics, barrels, etc). Again this is an abstraction that is used in a video game, because accurately modelling these things would most likely require supercomputers to model the interactions of individual atoms. >all weapon damage is assumed to be in 1000m range, For example the "50mm KwK 38/39" gun does 320 damage and has various tables against other targets, and the "German 75mm KwK 42" gun does 1490 damage, which made me wonder how they came to this conclusion, the readme file for this mod doesn't provide any explanation how they are balancing this mod. I have no idea how they came up with that, but again these are just serious abstractions in a program whose main goal is to entertain the player. But at this point I'd mention that disabling a tank is about damaging the equipment inside or killing the crew. After all, if you penetrate the armour and wreck the engine, then the tank can't move. Similarly, killing the driver will make it stop. So speaking about HP is more than misleading. >Only for warships? Damn what a pity. You could try to use it for tanks and tank guns, but we have significantly more data about those, and they weren't the starting point of this model. Alas, battleships weren't shooting at each other often enough to have combat data, but their guns and armour plates were tested quite a lot, and so these calculations are based on those tests.
>>13537 Forgot this: this is what is written under those tables: >Orange text: Incendiary effect, does not represent actual RHA equivalent thickness penetration In other words, modelling what happens when you set a tank on fire is a bit hard, so they went with an abstraction that represent it as if the tank was being shot with a normal projectile.
>>13535 >I don't want to be mean, but you seem to confusing and conflating reality, models used to describe that reality, video games that are trying to simulate reality based on those models, and video games that use significantly more abstract models (e.g. a health point system) to rather inaccurately approximate reality. In other words, there is a lot to untangle here. Well I am just a yuropoor noguns fag so I have absolutely no clue how weapons in real life works. >health point system With the game I'm modding for that's the only variable I can work with which denotes how "strong" a actor is, there is nothing else to it, besides I don't know of any other place where I could ask about those sort of questions. I'm the only /agdg/ anon left on other imageboards that does anything related with tonk modding, the other developer anons are making different type of games of different genres which may or may not have action/shooting elements in it. So I thought I might ask my question here instead. >But the point is that knowing the nominal length of the case is not that helpful, because as you can see most of them are not perfectly cylindrical, so you can't deduce how much powder goes into them, and that's why the case length is usually ignored when discussing the gun itself. Alright then that settles it. >>13536 >Animals are not tanks, they work quite differently... Right I'm retarded, I should have looked for the muzzle velocity/stopping power values instead. Well with that explanation in mind then to accurately reflect that with all the monster pack mods there is available for Doom would be nearly impossible having to tweak the values of each individual creature and having to write a general purpose script that somewhat reflects the reality a bit closer of how a animal gets wounded/killed would also be difficult as a lot of assumption has to be made. With this method there is still some trouble because Doom features also creatures like arachnotrons which are partially mechanical thus it implies a form of "hard" armor, because there is for me no flag to check for if a creature is all flesh, half flesh half armored or fully armored. I mean there kinda is one in form of "+NOBLOOD" flag but all it tells me that this actor is not bleeding and judging from the few monster pack mods that I've peeked the code of it the author of those packs cares little about such details. Actually now when I think of it, I should see if I can contact the author of hideous destructor somehow as this mod tries to be as "realistic" as possible and see what he has to say about it if he can gibes me gud formulas for various types of ammo and weapons. >>13537 >I have no idea how they came up with that, but again these are just serious abstractions in a program whose main goal is to entertain the player. Figures it, as Total Annihilation is a pretty bad base for that as its modding capacity is very limited, as in it does not feature scripting to allow them do to armor penetration calculations and the like, so they had to come up with something else. >You could try to use it for tanks and tank guns, but we have significantly more data about those, and they weren't the starting point of this model. Alas, battleships weren't shooting at each other often enough to have combat data, but their guns and armour plates were tested quite a lot, and so these calculations are based on those tests. Right but I'm retarded when it comes to math so I don't know how I should interpret the combat results/test result of WW2/Modern tank guns in order to abstract those values as a base somehow. I guess then for AP* rounds I will try using this formula then and see how it works out.
>>13540 >Well I am just a yuropoor noguns fag So am I, but that never stopped me from wasting way too much time on military history. >I don't know how I should interpret the combat results/test result of WW2/Modern tank guns in order to abstract those values as a base somehow. You look at the RHAe of a tank's armour at a given part, look up what is behind that part, then you look up how much RHAe a given weapon can penetrate. If the latter's number is higher, then in theory it should penetrate the armour and fuck up what is behind it. But I guess modelling any of that wouldn't work. Maybe you could do a system where every unit simply ignores a certain part of the damage (expressed in number, not in percentage) it receives, to represent non-penetrating hits. Then if a unit receiver any damage it blows up instantly, this is to represent that it's out of combat. After all, it a ww2 tank gets hit seriously the crew usually bails and then that's it for the tank. Still, this system would completely ignore the non-disabling damage dealt by smaller weapons, and you'd also have to add a system where the damage of a weapon firing AP projectiles decreases with distance.
>>13541 >But I guess modelling any of that wouldn't work. Maybe you could do a system where every unit simply ignores a certain part of the damage (expressed in number, not in percentage) it receives, to represent non-penetrating hits. Then if a unit receiver any damage it blows up instantly, this is to represent that it's out of combat. After all, it a ww2 tank gets hit seriously the crew usually bails and then that's it for the tank. That sounds like a good idea though at the other hand it would also focus slightly too much on the realism aspect, as in it would turn the gameplay where the player requires much more careful observation of his environment to make sure he doesn't get one shotted, because he forget to check for that suspective bush that he missed and with this balance it would slow down the game pace even more. Meh I cannot implement this type of model anyway for my GZDoom mod as it would mean I would have to dig up my old enemy replacer mod which requires serious amount of cleaning as its codebase is pure spaghetti. >and you'd also have to add a system where the damage of a weapon firing AP projectiles decreases with distance. Hmm right too bad that both WT and WoT wiki page doesn't mention any fucking formula of how they do it, so it's going to be a bitch to get that part right, in my mod I didn't bothered with it yet because my whole weapon code is not quite finished yet and just relative recently I am slowly rewriting the projectile code so that it uses ZScript instead of Decorate code. The Decorate APHE/APFSDS projectile I have currently is quite a mess but it's not possible at all to do it any better as Decorate is fairly limited in its capabilities. I guess I will take a peek soon at the Hideous Destructor mod then and hopefully I can make some sense of its code because with ZScript the whole modding aspect becomes even more complicated, for example I peeked at the Biogun zscript from the UT99 mod and I couldn't make sense of it. At the very least I think should be able to figure out the damage model for the rifle and grenade that the Hideous Destructor has and devising a formula based on it.
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Fuck armor, Howitzer time.
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>>13655 Deflect THIS
>>13634 >that photo Guy on the right is thinking "please don't drop that. Oh god, why did they let Big Baby Retard hold the atomic shell for the photo op?"
>>13634 >>13664 Those atomic shells don't have multi point safeties like the big boy atomic weapons do either, do they?
>>13664 >>13674 Do you honestly think it's going to detonate from dropping if it's designed to be fired out of a fucking cannon?
>>13634 Go make your own thread, fagget.
>>13677 Clearly you haven't seen that video where a bunch of slavs were unloading artillery rounds by carelessly sliding/throwing them down a small, grassy slope and into a pile where they kept colliding until suddenly detonation accures.
>>13690 Do you still have that webm by chance? I think we lost it when 8cuck got taken down due to el paso.
>>13690 Russia is a state of mind
>>13697 Those were ukrop niggers.

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