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body armor Strelok 07/27/2020 (Mon) 20:51:09 No.4494
anyone buy kevlar sleeves? I was looking at https://www.superiorglove.com/en/arm-protection/kevlar-protective-sleeves and am not sure what would be a good investment. Other site selling vests only sold gloves which doesn't seem like enough. Also any advice for how to plan to don this stuff rapidly in a safe area in emergencies? Like if there was home invasion with knives? Also wondering if there are any sleeves with NIJIII ratings against bullets since vests only cover torso. I've also read that material in bulletproof vests break down after two years, is that how often you need to buy them? Seems very expensive, wondering if some brands last longer than others.
>>4506 I have considered buying some chainmail armor to protect my torso and arms from knife attacks. Does anyone have experience with them and where to get one? I have looked around but I mainly find cosplay shit, and I lack welding equipment.
>>4511 >>4516 bullet performance vs barriers https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/lodge/barriers-and-ammo/ >>4517 Tried some history shops? Some of these guys are incredibly serious about their hobby and their shit's actually working. Maybe use other search terms to find something that might do the job.
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>>4506 Air rifles will be around for quite a while, considering the bullets are just bits of metal and you don't need powder. Not exactly high powered, but the better ones are good enough for game hunting, even the most dangerous game. Blackpowder weaponry will probably stick around for the long haul since it's relatively easily manufactured even with medieval-tier gear. >>4511 Segmentata isn't easy to manufacture, nor maintain. It all needs to be fitted to your body specifically. There's a reason it fell out of use as the Empire declined. Chainmail hauberks and gambesons are where it's at for easy slashing/stab protection and safety from arrows at least. Wouldn't particularly trust either one with saving me from bullets though. Even cuirassier plates weren't up to that task, and they were built for it. The Germans made bullet-proof metal trench armor, but it was so heavy it made you more or less immobile. If you want bullet-proof, just get a plate carrier.
>>4510 I think the point is that you're not bugging out if you're going to manufacture ammo, you're defending the house/neighborhood/homestead/crackden.
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>>4517 https://www.by-the-sword.com/isearch3?searchterm=chain+mail This place has a lot of chain mail. Some of it's LARPshit but it does have a lot of real mail. It's all mild steel though so you would have to heat treat it to make it truly tough. >and I lack welding equipment. Mail can also be riveted together This place is also an option. You would have to do it all completely from scratch but they do have good hardened carbon steel rings. https://theringlord.com/cart/shopdisplaycategories.asp?id=1&cat=Rings They also have brass, bronze, and copper rings which is what that Cody guy on youtube used for his chain mail. Red metal is not nearly as hard a iron and steel of course but it would still offer some protection, especially from stabs from smaller blades and from slashes of all kinds, and it can be brazed together with just a hand torch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViJXLsVtdBk
>>4517 Chain mail will not protect you from stabs very well without very obvious layers of coth like Gambeson
>>4517 https://youtu.be/WzhAhRZzCrA I would consider this instead; Easy to make and actual protection from stabs.
>>4533 The main problem with chain is being stabbed by very thin points like a stiletto or a sharpened screwdriver. If someone comes after you with a folding knife or a kitchen knife then chain would likely protect you just fine. You still want padding to distribute and dampen the power of a blow regardless. >>4534 >Easy to make But not quite as easy as chain because you have to have access to, or be able to make, the plates. You also have to have fair sewing shills to make the cloth part of the armor. Also chain is more forgiving in the sizing department. If I was going to choose Brigandine then I wouldn't even try to make it and I would just purchase it from a good source. Now a coat of plates I might try to make myself, provided I could get or make the metal scales that make it up.
>>4506 I'm a Brit, so I can't answer that for you. But I've stocked up on a couple of thousand of each type I need, for sports, of course. But if I were to guess, I'd guess that they'd try to close the stores and stop you from buying rounds. If not then the demand for it will all shoot right up so companies will be making more and more anyway. But if everything shut down, I'd say a couple of weeks TOPS since everyone will be panic buying. It's always best to have too many rounds spare.
>>4494 >anyone buy kevlar sleeves? No, because you can buy Slash Resistant Pullovers that are much better to wear. I have worn one of those together with a SK1 vest during my time as a professional Rapefugee-Herder in 2016 in Germany at a Rapefugee-Camp. They are useful against the Shivs and Kitchenknifes these type of people like to use, they protect your arms from being scratched up and are comfortable to wear. However they are only useful if you actually have to get close and personal with people. >I've also read that material in bulletproof vests break down after two years, is that how often you need to buy them? If they break down after two years that is a shit vest, usually the bulletproof vest used by the Police here in Germany hold 5-10 years. You can get a working vest already for 250€, by 10 years that is 25 bucks a year. If you buy a good bulletproof vest for around 800+ Euro, that is still just 80 bucks a year. Its pretty worth to spend 80+ bucks a year to have a chance of not dying a miserable death. >>4495 >The more stuff you wear, the slower you are in every way and the hotter it is. A pullover will not slow you down and if its warm you will sweat in your vest regardless of what you wear. I once wore just a thin t-shirt and wide airy cargo pants and I was still sweating in my vest like crazy during summer. >>4517 >I have considered buying some chainmail armor to protect my torso and arms from knife attacks. Does anyone have experience with them and where to get one? There are some companies in Europe that sell modern chainmail armor against slash and stab attack for security guards. One of them is Ziegler. https://ziegler-metallgewebe.com/en/industries/safety/security-shirt/ another is https://www.bsst.de/de/koerperschutz-shop/p9_secu.html Expensive for just a Anti-Stab vest, but nice to wear compared to other Anti-Stab vest made of Nylon, Plastic and Kevlar.
>>4525 >Segmentata isn't easy to manufacture, nor maintain uhm, unless you speak from experience I checked some websites of people fabricating and using them and the consensus seems to be that an unskilled person can make one in under a week, provided he has some basic tools, and maintenance is easy because you can just replace a damaged part. It's the same with chainmail but it takes significantly longer to make. As for stopping bullets, I know it won't, the added bonus to its primary function as a protection against bladed weapons is turning HPs into a more ball type bullet. >If you want bullet-proof, just get a plate carrier. Fair enough but two years into the apocalypse there might be no shops around and supply is only old stuff leaking epoxy. Also just one or two hits and you need a new carrier. I guess you don't have them in the dozens in your garage.
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>>4548 I'm going by what I've heard some reenactors say and the historical view of why it was discontinued over time. If you can fit it to yourself properly, maybe you're right. Not so sure how easy that is though. Making chain might be slow, but it's very easy. As for bulletproof protection: Not really necessary in my country. Legal guns are nearly exclusively owned by hunters, and our military and police aren't nearly as zogbot as US ones. Armed gangs are a thing, but if order breaks down, they'd be too busy to shoot each other to shoot at me. And I'm far out of the city in the first place. As for stab-proofing, I've got a full historical Teutonic knight outfit. I'll be fine.
>>4494 >I've also read that material in bulletproof vests break down after two years I don't have any pictures here but I purchased a surplus german flak-jacket made in the late 90's, pulled out the rear aramid panel and shot it to test. It stopped 22lr, .38 special, 9mm fmj's, 12ga 00buck and a 12ga slug though you'd probably be dead after that anyway I didn't test it with .357 or .44 mag but it's at least NIJII standards. Not saying you should trust your life to surplus shit, but it worked a lot better than nothing. All the anons posting about armor construction reminded me of this vid of a kid making fiberglass bullet-resistant plates youtube.com/watch?v=_7jiIQOgwtI
Realistically I think the best sort of armor is a combination between chain and plate (e.g. samurai armor, mirror armor, etc.) If you have absolutely no access to even ghetto backyard smithery then full chain seems to me to be the best bet since all you need a single base material (metal rings, or metal wire if you're going at it from scratch) and only a few tools. Beyond that it's not a lot different from knitting or crocheting. This is for slice stab protection. If you need bullet protection then you're either going to need modern materials or at minimum hardened, thick plate armor that's angled in such a way to partially deflect bullet impacts. If you're having to worry about rifle rounds then I don't really see much of an option other than carrying around a big shield made of three or four inch thick Lexguard. That might be a bit cumbersome and heavy though, I'm not really sure how heavy Lexguard is.
>>4548 >>4556 Making movie/larping chainmail is easy. Making something that will protect you is not. The videos you see are people looping chain which will break with little effort from an attacker. Proper chainmail is rivetted together and requires a lot more expertise to work. You're better off buying a proper stab vest you can rely on instead of gambling on the cheap shit you find on etsy DON'T BUY LARPING VESTS AND EXPECT THEM TO WORK. YOU WILL END UP DEAD
>>4565 Weeb armour is terrible. As soon as Europeans were introduced they quickly switched over to using European style armour.
>>4569 If its also just slash resistance against bladed weapons, one can also look up clothes of Eruopeans worn in Modern times. They didn't just dress fancy, many things had a practical propose.
>>4562 >youtube.com/watch?v=_7jiIQOgwtI Wow really impressive strelok, this came just in time. Did anyone catch how many layers of the welder's plane he used? Anyways is there a reason plates are always completely hard, I know inlets for flak jackets are not, but I would think a composite resin able to bent somewhat is better at dissipating the energy transmitted by the bullet.
>>4569 >As soon as Europeans were introduced they quickly switched over to using European style armour. No they switched over because Europeans introduced firearms to Japan. Firearms were the exact same reason that mail gave way to heavy plate in Europe too.
>>4578 Japan came into contact with firearms before they had contact with Europeans.
>>4572 You want hard plates because they dissipate kinetic energy the fastest with the least amount of bodily harm. If you used something that bent under stress, well.... where is that bullet gonna go? Kevlar inserts can stop bullets but will badly deform and can still cause injuries like bruises, broken bones and internal bleeding. A guy makes a bullet-resistant plate in this one out of ceramic tile, books and tape, pretty wacky. youtube.com/watch?v=Ny7fXBZS6Bk
>everyone but one guy ignores that lvl III poly plates exist >everyone but one guy ignores that lvl IV ceramics exist why the FUCK is anyone here talking about kevlar?
>>4583 >muh kevlar >muh poly >muh ceramic You guys make it seem like you'll always be able to shop around and have your stuff send to you the next day. I don't know where this consumerist attitude comes from but how about you think two steps ahead and think what you can actually do when SHTF. I'm sure it won't involve kevlar or ceramics.
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>>4585 Indeed, we will see the return of earthen fortifications. First it will be 20th century trenches, then 19th century ones, and in the end we will see bronze age fortifications.
>>4587 >guy in $4K tacticool gear gets effed by unwashed caveman with shitty neolithic stone ax dangling from hemp rope above appreciate the laugh tho
>>4583 I wonder if you could make your own ghetto cermet? Maybe based on porcelain since that's already very hard. >>4587 >Indeed, we will see the return of earthen fortifications. God I hope so. I love star forts >>4415
>>4585 >I don't know where this consumerist attitude comes from but how about you think two steps ahead and think what you can actually do when SHTF. Its called being prepared. We have now over a decade of /k/ talking about what to do and what to own for a SHTF situation and that list never really changed, only the available supply lines changed. If in all these years you didn't get a useful set of weapons, Belt kit and some body armor, you can only blame yourself. If you are an Oldfag, then the day to get ready was yesterday, if you are a Newfag the day to get ready is today, not tomorrow.
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This was the thing I was talking about before. I only just now found my pic.
>>4593 >two years into the boogaloo >b-but muh credit card You can sit on your good stuff all you want, there will be the day there you won't buy your way out of this anymore. Then it's back to basics so unless you know how to manufacture your own replacement plates or whatever in your basement your fucked. I don't wish you harm but I don't get this opposition to people who make their stuff on their own. HAte reloading, too? You invested in AR500 or something?
>>4607 >reloading In the long term that doesn't seem viable to me. At least for most people. At some point you would have to start making your own powder and primer and I don't see most people having the knowledge to do that or if they do to do it safely. Even regular old black powder's kind of a pain in the ass because of the sulfur requirement.
>>4610 That's really a problem, especially for semi and full auto's.If people start reloading regularly in an ever deteriorating supply situation this will drastically decrease quality of cartridges, bullets and propellants up to the point of your AR not working anymore or just for short burst. Maybe this will be the hour of the AK, who knows As for BP you can do without sulfur, using just sugar and rust IIRC but this's really SHTF scenario and performance is probably abysmal, barely suited for anything else than muzzle loaders. Good thing is propellant degrades not too much, I've seen people digging up WW2 ammo single small arms cartridges from earth and exploding them, though I don't know how much of performance issues you'd get if you were to use them for reloading. Primers are a problem on their own. It's possible to make them but reliable? Yeahhh .... Safe? lol
>>4607 >You can sit on your good stuff all you want, there will be the day there you won't buy your way out of this anymore. You can play the tough survival guy all you want, but the fact of the matter is that this day isn't now and at the moment it isn't efficient to go into home production of body armor. The time you are wasting is better spend making money and getting the supplies you actually need to keep a stable life for months after SHTF. Once SHTF and you have a shit tone of free time because your economic and social responsibilities from previous times are mostly gone, you can sit down with your supplies&books and develop the skills needed to replace worn down equipment. >I don't wish you harm but I don't get this opposition to people who make their stuff on their own. The point is not that you make your own stuff, the point is that you are wasting your time on retarded stuff that isn't valuable now and will not be valuable for a long time even after SHTF.
>>4632 He has a point though. Ceramic plates will degrade, so they will be great to have if you need them within the next few years or can repeatedly replace them. But if it takes longer than you think, something like steel plates that last longer would be good. Another example is tritium powered reticles. If you got one 10 years ago it would be mostly burnt out by now so useless at night. If you can plan your gear to be useful over the long term, it could pay off and maybe even save you money that you can use for other stuff. After all time is money and by buying shit you are spending your life hours.
>>4639 >steel plates How thick and what grade of steel would it take to stop most hand gun and possibly some rifle rounds? >Ceramic plates What about making your own? Spark plug ceramics are damn hard and I think that's just fused alumina. Hard fired porcelain is pretty hard too.
>>4632 I'm not even in disagreement about buying gear now but there's a lot of folks around that have been prepping longer than you seem to live and seen too much of expensive shit just rotting away over the decades. So the time to worry what then is now as good as ever but I'd rather have my skills developed sooner than later. Can't see the harm in that and come on, it's not exactly an ineffienct waste to make your own plates for $30 bugs as the dude in that video above did in a day. youtube.com/watch?v=_7jiIQOgwtI Seems pretty efficient to me and you can do that every year rather cheaply with your gear always fresh off the shelf compared to buying new quality plates every decade over your lifetime, no? Add some layers if you don't trust his method or don't at all, your call >>4640 >How thick and what grade of steel would it take to stop most hand gun and possibly some rifle rounds? Had seen some tables once but off the top of my head way too thick to be useful unless you're satisfied with an HP turning into an (potentially still lethal) hole punch. Car door thickness sheet metal would be enough for that. Else maybe an inch, something like an heavy oven door
>>4610 Sulfur can be found with salt deposits and traces in many other ore deposits. Easy to extract too, thanks the low melting point. And then there's volcanic rock and volcanic regions of course. Saltpetre on the other hand is a bitch to extract, since it requires quicklime, which means limestone + kilns, and then you rot quicklime, urine, earth and straw together and boil that delicious mixture down, then filter it with additional quicklime. And you need a lot of the stuff, unlike sulfur.
>>4640 AR500 steel (what you'd use for a steel target) with truck bed liner for anti-spalling, and some extra padding behind it for anti-trauma. For thickness just copy what you see commercial offerings using. You won't be able to bend the steel without degrading its effectiveness though, so you're probably best off covering a small area because a flat piece of steel will be uncomfortable and hard to breathe in. Or instead of using it as portable armor, just use it to armor-up a fixed position for cover. >>4642 Quality pistol and rifle rounds will go clear through a car door FYI
>>4645 >Quality pistol and rifle rounds will go clear through a car door FYI like cutting through hot butter, sure, the point is it's enough to keep HPs from expanding FWIW
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>>4646 If that's all you want farmer armor should work as well and be much lighter. Plus it can actually stop very small calibers
>>4651 >If that's all you want nahh, I want something super easy to make at home against stabbing and cutting, defeating HPs is just a bonus though a welcome one. You can live with ball passing through your waist but taking an HP, anywhere actually, bad times lol >heavy clothing I don't know what kind of clothing they tested here but expansion was well within parameters https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/lodge/barriers-and-ammo/ compare that to the effect of sheet metal
>>4652 Look at fiberglass lamnanents. I think a couple of welding blankets and a can of the right epoxy, pressed together with a few tons of force. Is exactly what you are looking for. Could even get exotic and add metal meshes as a few layers. Now you can saw through this kind of stuff. With effort and proper tools. So you could make some different plate shapes.
>>4749 >Look at fiberglass lamnanents. Yeah, it's in the video posted above, thanks nonetheless for the headsup, this is certainly the direction I'll be going. I don't know though how small those plates can be manufactured so as to still give some protection. For a comfortable wear (much) smaller would be better but I'm not sure a system of platelets of say 2" by 4" especially in the shoulder area wouldn't be simply pushed aside even if it didn't break. Now, there's obviously a lot of small stuff that is marketed as bulletproof but I really don't know about the protection it affords. It basically boils down to the question if plates are mainly manufactured the size they are because of economical reasons or if there's indeed a lower treshold below they are useless. Any informed opinions anyone?
>>4568 >Proper chainmail is rivetted together and requires a lot more expertise to work They can also be welded together. Or both actually.
>>4610 >>4630 Sulfur is honestly the least concern. You pretty much need some sort of nitrate, which means you either have access to saltpeter of some sort, or are able to synthesize it, which honestly doesn't seem that hard. And at that point, you're 90% of the way to nitric acid, which means you might as well be making nitrocellulose. I've been looking at the possibility of doing Haber-Bosch -> Ostwald process, the Ostwald process seems to honestly be the easiest way of of making almost any nitrate once you have ammonia, since it just needs O2 + NH3 + a platinum catalyst (car exhaust catalyst), and a bit of heat. Haber-Bosch is pretty easy too, just N2 + H2 + a fuckload of pressure and patience. H2 + O2 can be trivially made in almost perfect purity with electrolysis, N2 needs either an air separation filter or fractional distillation of air, which is probably the hardest part of this whole mess. The rest is just compressors, heat supply, and some pressure vessels, and enough electricity to run the whole affair. Primers are much harder, but if they require too much work, you could probably just use electric ignition without too much trouble.
>>4814 >Sulfur is honestly the least concern Not if you're talking about matchlocks and flintlocks and the like. I don't know if really need it caplocks and modern cartridges obviously don't. >Primers are much harder, but if they require too much work Making primers from scratch would be the touchiest shit ever. Fulminates and azides are not to be fucked with lightly. >you could probably just use electric ignition without too much trouble. But where you get your electricity from? If you're in a position to have to think about making primers from scratch then hopping down to the store to but a 9 volt probably isn't in the cards either. I guess you could make a piezoelectric spark device but I'm not sure how to go about that.
>>4814 Primers are piss easy provided you've got standard book matches. Take standard primer out, disassemble, add matchhead dust with some of the striker tape, reassemble carefully and these you go.
>>4817 >Making primers from scratch would be the touchiest shit ever. Fulminates and azides are not to be fucked with lightly. Thankfully you only need tiny quantities, so I'm more concerned with availability of the feedstocks, but yeah, it's certainly not ideal. >But where you get your electricity from? Honestly could be as simple as a spring powered dynamo or a lead-acid battery in your backpack and a coil pack. Post-collapse I'm assuming electric generation is going to outlast the primary stockpiles of ammunition, since it's going to be a very long time before we're out of alternators and washing machine motors to salvage. Dry cells will probably be depleted before ammunition is, even lithium ion cells will probably be worn out or dead from storage by that point
>>4817 >But where you get your electricity from Solar powered guns? Maybe hook up the dynamo of a crank-operated lamp to your gun to end up with a neo-wheellock look.
>>4820 >Solar powered guns? Growing silicon wafers are to fiddly. >Maybe hook up the dynamo of a crank-operated lamp to your gun to end up with a neo-wheellock look. Now that's an idea. I kind of like that.
>>4754 >size of plates The size of the plates doesn't affect the protective value that they provide. A 4'x6' plate rated NIJIII will provide the same protection as a 10"x12" plate rated NIJIII. Most ballistic plates are 10x12 as that size will cover the vitals for almost everyone, like a one-size fits all (for the front and back). As for armor construction, you want your ballistic plates to at least stop 55gr 5.56 unless you are in an area where that isn't a concern (the ghetto or whatever) I was thinking if you took the fiberglass hard plates from that video above, glued ceramic to the front and a metal plate to the back it could (possibly) stop 5.56 like an improvised SAPI plate

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