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China: Eminence or fall 02/01/2022 (Tue) 03:20:05 No.22101
Will China persist much longer as a leading power? Why or why not?
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Do you think that there is any chance of the Chinese ever going back to some kind of Imperial system?
>>31564 1, they are already imperial in all but name, 2, they'd be stupid to do so, considering the indecisive and stagnating civil planning that results in.
>>31524 >video You made me laugh Especially since the music is from a song known as "(To be) clear of mind" Oh the irony..... Should've been for the Taoists and not Confucious though.
Can someone repost the Chinese female ruler crap, especially the long greentext about Wu Zetian? I forgot to save it.
>>32271 >>>/meta/15518 R9k doesn't let me upload it here.
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So what happens to the great green wall if there's an economic collapse? It mostly consists of birch monocultures without any real life inhabiting the area and without even accomplishing the goal of making arable farmland. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu_qTrxTEEA
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>>32332 >The Great Green Wall of China >The Great Green Wall of India >The Great Green Wall of Brazil >The Great Green Wall of Africa Why can't the greens call it something else? half of the time I don't know which project they are talking when someone says the Great Green Wall.
>>32332 There's been famines in China before. You can use that as a reference to what happens next
>>32280 Holy shit why are women so evil?
>>32393 They evolved to be selfish and manipulative, so that they can ensnare men around them. Of course there are men like that too, but men mostly evolved so that we beat each other up (literally and figuratively) until we have a reasonably stable hierarchy, so that we can get shit done.
>>32391 >2 billion civilians successfully eaten
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https://archive.ph/1iEXA How much of this is true?
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>>32813 Part 1 link: https://archive.ph/ZGFu7 Well it's Zerohedge so I'd like to say none of it, but the reporter seems to have done his research and it's mostly in line with my own observations, perhaps embellished. The Chinks have still been going full COVID lockdown mode while the rest of the world got over it, so unless civil war breaks out over there I can only see a path towards a food crisis.
>>31564 I think they are gonna stick with metric, they are not controlled by the eternal anglo after all.
>China trying to save face >Doubles down on zero-tolerance COVID policy >While the rest of the world has stopped giving a shit about it Wew. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooPu-gx7n38
>>33729 The purpose is to shut down their ports and bottleneck supply chains.
>>33915 Why? Makes no sense.
>>33915 So that they can lose all their customers to their enemies who are mass industrializing to meet the demand China left behind? This made sense for the first six(ish) months of COVID but we're two years in and it doesn't make any sense, anon. Their exports were the only thing propping up the domestic market so that shit didn't go tits-up like it is right now.
>>33729 >>33929 It's not the whole China that tries to save face, it's Xi Jinping and his clique alone. Internal party elections are coming up and if he doesn't win this one using Zero Covid policy then his years of effort on becoming a dictator for life by modifying the party rules to rule forever is doomed to fail.
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Apparently China is making sure that SEANigger countries begin to look like Kenshi over the next decade. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4BIwTaZqlQ
If China tried to take Taiwan by force the US would intervene militarily, Biden has said. Again.
>>34754 I don't think either country is in a spot to go starting world wars but between China's collapsing economy and America stretching itself thin I don't think a Taiwanese war is on the table right now. Even the Great Reset folks understand that doing so right now would just start a civil war.
>>34758 >china collapse >us stretched thin These are both reasons why China would be more rather than less likely to to attempt to grow larger. Personally I think Japan's position on Taiwan is the real sticking point for China. >great reset crowd >implying civil war isn't part of the plan Also I don't think the great reset crowd carries much weight in Chinese military circles.
>>22101 I'm leaning towards no. China has not been present on the global stage during most of Covid while many leaders were gaining recognition for their handling of it, both positive and negative. It doesn't look good for China to stay isolated on global matters when they're trying to be the dominant global superpower. It doesn't help that the media wasn't able to shut down the lab leak theory and more people are getting on board with it. I mean we all know China covered it up, but normalfags are finally catching on. China's economy relies on slave labor, but due to supply chain issues, more countries are investing in domestic or closer manufacturing again to avoid more disruptions in the future. This is also bad as China built over their fertile farmland for warehouses. They built over so much if it that they actually import a lot of their food. There's also the issue of Taiwan. Even though China's invasion of Hong Kong didn't get much outrage, it was still a territory of China (despite their desire for independence) while Taiwan acts completely independently of mainland China and has done so for decades. China's invasion of Hong Kong further pushed Taiwan into wanting to avoid any agreement with China because they know they'll just get fucked and forced into reunification. If China actually invades Taiwan, China will lose a lot of international support and may see sanctions on the level of Russia. (As it is, China's "alliances" seem more like economic agreements rather than any formal alliance that would help them in the event of war.) For some reason their labor camps and genocide of Uyghurs don't get a lot of media attention, but if shit starts going bad for them, these will be brought up and used against them.
>>34760 Normally yes, however going to war during a famine involves losing face and Taiwan isn't enough to fix said famine so it will just create civil strife, while keeping their head low and supplying Russia will put them in a better position roughly six years from now to invade when Americans elect another Democrat. Then again I thought the rate at which congressmen are dumping money into Ukraine would be enough to cause civil unrest and there's a few months to prove whether I am right or wrong. I guess when we start seeing troops moving around it will be cleared up. >implying civil war isn't part of the plan It's not. Civil unrest is part of the plan but they would prefer to kill political dissidents overseas rather than at home where there's a risk of them successfully revolting.
>>22101 At very least, the current continuity of Chinese state did start after New Deal, which in turn put the big pants on after Soviet Union. Thus: all other things equal, we would expect them to end in this order too. Of course, those other things are never equal at all. But other than this, who knows? Sure, China doesn't look too dysfunctional from the outside, not has rivals that could make it sweat much, let alone crush it. But what of it? 30 years ago USA looked so strong from the outside, too. Right after winning the Cold War (by hook, by crook, or by default, depending on whom you ask), and nothing is going to stop the #1 superpower, and... and by now it almost died of cancer, with no cure in foreseeable future. Oops. From the outside, the only obvious question is: why do their bosses push utterly phantasmagorical crap like "social credit"? Are they fixing what works well... or does it NOT work well for them? Hmm. The only ones who can tell what's up are the Chinese, but they aren't going to tell. And even they could not tell which trends are important and which aren't, due to the aberrations of proximity.
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>>22102 tl;dr faget
>>34972 Said the moonrune reader.
>>34815 If China invades Taiwan--wait they're already doing this with intermarriages. They've probably already won most of the Taiwanese elites' hearts and minds already. >>35003 Out of the way bucko, drinking bro coming through. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43_O9kJu6Hw
Aging is a problem. But it is not just a problem for China, it is a common problem for all developed countries in the world. China can learn from Japan and South Korea, which are ahead of it, to cope with aging. Even if pensions are insufficient, the Chinese will not collapse under any circumstances. You have completely underestimated the potential of the Chinese people to endure suffering and the ability of the Communist state apparatus to control the flow of information and social stability. Take the Wuhan virus, for example, where China, using its totalitarian system and the slavish nature of its population, can do repeated clearances that no Western country can do, not even fellow Eastern countries like Japan, Korea and Taiwan. Imagine a country that can go to this level of hysteria over an enhanced version of the flu, what else do you think China can't do.
When China started winning almost all the gold medals in mathematical and physical Olympiads two or three decades ago, it was time for the West to realize the crisis. Today, people of Chinese descent have flooded research institutions, universities and technology companies in the West, especially in America. while local Americans are still obsessed with their stupid topics like identity politics, race wars, and "diversity" issues, the Chinese are spending every moment thinking about defeating/weakening America, meanwhile silencing domestic every dissenting voices, building a iron wall of single ideologicay. Since Xi came to power he had purged all liberal and pro-Western voices on their intranet, nationalism and extreme statism are prevailing. It evem doesn't even take the Communist Party to do anything, every Chinese is watching everyone else to report "Western spies" to get a government reward of tens thousands of USD. The only nations that can deal with China are the Koreans and Japanese, but their population is too small. And The West is not only underpopulated, but stupid and divided as shit. Essentially fighting China, you are fighting 5 Imperial Japans at same time (which was twice the size of Japan today).
>>36249 >Aging is a problem. But it is not just a problem for China, it is a common problem for all developed countries in the world. The difference is that in many first world problems, the aging question is an urban issue or regional issue, not a nation-wide issue (it is a nation-wide issue because of taxes, but once ideologically outnumbered the state benefits will be cut; Socialists are already losing core voting blocs to age and infertility). In China the only people having kids seem to be the oppressed minorities that hate Han Chinese. >You have completely underestimated the potential of the Chinese people to endure suffering This isn't the 30s where everyone is a rural farmer, Chang. I don't underestimate their subconscious desire to cannibalize one another I question their ability to stay relevant on the world stage while doing so. I don't care about Chinese killing one another the same way I don't care about the Tatmadaw killing urban dwellers. >Chink virus Cucking them militarily and making them impotent on the world stage during a time when China should be DOMINANT in world politics. China imports their grains too, so they're to be hit hardest by the food shortages after two years of shit harvests and crop burning. >Today, people of Chinese descent have flooded research institutions, universities and technology companies in the West Yes that's ultimately a "good" thing if they can do the job and not report trade secrets back to the mainland. The lack of responsibility is the core issue. >Internet purges Making the populace militantly nationalist without any realism is how you get complete societal collapse. This isn't starship troopers and there is no existential threat from a non-human entity (unless you count the bug people of China as non-human entities which I do not even if I call them bug people because of mentality). >5 Imperial Japans at the same time With an actual technological level on par with muskets. Look how that went for the Soviets until their buddies showed up during WWII. China doesn't have any buddies since they pissed off everyone. At best they have insurance in the form of aligned hatred for the West coming from Russia who is about to overtake China over in Africa.
>>36270 Your rebuttal is pretty feeble. The fertility rate in each country is a national issue. When we compare fertility rates in different countries, we don't take data from individual city regions. Every western country is aging and the only solution is to bring in large numbers of foreign immigrants, but that leads to the disintegration of nation states and social instability, especially in "democracies" and areas where the internet is not controlled and censored. This is worse than just aging. I don't care that you don't care about Chinese. I just want you to know that the vast majority of Chinese people will never have the idea or conception of rebelling against the government, even if they are locked up at home and starving to death by anti-pandemic policies, Let alone pension fund collapsing. On the other side, China has caught up with the US in many aspects of technology, such as artificial intelligence, drones, electric cars, and smartphones. You know why Japan's trade surplus has dropped dramatically in recent years? because it is in the same ecological niche as China in manufacturing and is losing out to the competition. The next victims are likely to be South Korea and Taiwan. As for Europe and the United States? You guys had lost manufacturing a long time ago. And the service sector has no role during a war. You expect a bunch of lawyers, lgbt fashion designers and Hollywood pop stars to stop Russia from invading Ukraine? I'm laughing my ass off.
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>>36448 >angry bug noises You will never be a human being.
>>36448 You're right on pretty much all accounts. That other anon is clearly a seething lunatic, and underinformed on several points. China's SCO (Shanghai Pact) is the prelude to an Asian NATO and has a powerful ally in Russia (world's largest nuclear arsenal, not to mention China's own nukes) to say the least. The Saudis recently made China their major oil partner and are now accepting yuan. The Chinese own billions worth of euros in businesses and entire towns in London and the rest of the UK, not to mention the rest of Europe. Most of Europe's good real estate, but they can make the UK a second Tang dynasty Japan. >the vast majority of Chinese people will never have the idea or conception of rebelling against the government True, but enough can make enough of a fuss to cripple China's economy. Speaking of which, how are the Chinese dealing with baizuo ideology? As Jinping said, it is a serious threat that collapsed the West, so how are anti-Chinese and nationalist elements combatting each other over the issue?
Here's a way China can bring its aging population under heel: Plan a 9/11 event. Instill fear and sobriety into its population and make them compliant. Group old people into facilities to make them more manageable. Use sociable young people suitable for caring for them. Sociable bailan can be used too, but you don't want frustrated bailans near the vulnerable. What other useful jobs could bailans be feasible for?
>>36523 As anon pointed out this is something China can do even in the open. They probably don't even need a 9/11 event (ie, Uighurs), just keep banking on covid propagandas and mass produce fences to seal perimeters. The West can't do this (yet), to their benefit and advantage, but a radical rightist group could change all that. Look at the Trump worship that came from SCOTUS gutting abortion rights. They have something to believe in, and righteous insurrection just might happen.
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>>36448 >It's a national issue Yes. A national issue of ideological replacement. That's why I pointed out that American and European birth rates along political/socioeconomic/racial lines are leaning towards stability over time outside of urban centers, while in China, with only the ethnic minorities without a voice having kids, it is moving towards political instability. I'm not pulling the race card to talk race or anything equally silly, I'm just saying that only the groups who will lead to political instability (out of resentment towards Han and the CCP) are having kids in China. Their intellectuals are mass fleeing to Western countries right now, which is bad for China even if it's "good" short-term by helping their reputation/espionage efforts since the West and China have different ideals (and the last time Western ideals went to China they formed the CCP). >On the other side, China has caught up with the US in many aspects of technology, such as artificial intelligence, drones, electric cars, and smartphones. I'm not sure I'd call "you can do whatever you want over here so long as you hand over the schematics" the same as technological development. Like the Japanese you mentioned, it reeks of that region's excellence at optimizing technology but being unable to actually develop their own. A model Japan has been moving away from for the last 30 years towards actual innovation after realizing the flaws in that system. >You know why Japan's trade surplus has dropped dramatically in recent years? Because they've been experiencing deflation for 30 years compared to China's inflation (a good thing even if the Japanese government hates it), and have been returning to a domestic cash-based market which looks bad on official numbers even if it's much more stable. >The next victims are likely to be South Korea and Taiwan. Fuck both Koreas and the only reason Taiwan doesn't get the boot is geopolitical. >As for Europe and the United States? You guys had lost manufacturing a long time ago. You joke about that, but then what does it say for China when they're increasingly outsourcing to SEA countries and expanding in the service sector while their manufacturing/industrial sector is rapidly sinking? Brah China's literally following a case-by-case model for the Japanese housing market collapse of the late 80s. The difference is that collapse happened over the course of 15 years and lead to a lost decade. China's advanced in a similar path in the course of three years and the level of debt involved makes the Japanese collapse look like a drop in the bucket which could lead to a lost century (or complete collapse). >>36522 >China's SCO (Shanghai Pact) is the prelude to an Asian NATO and has a powerful ally in Russia I'm not denying that. I'm just pointing out that who was supposed to wear the collar and who was supposed to wear the leash are likely to flip-flop right now.
What would be a sufficient incentive for Han Chinese to breed, supposing that's what CCP wanted? CCP has carrots. It seems they're intent on lowering China's population to 700 million anyway, since the populace is full of useless eaters anyway. For their minorities, allowing them to breed at a faster rate is just a concession while they still screw those minorities over in economics and education. Those minorities have vigor that the Han take in as they interbreed with them. Han Chinese, especially their bailan, are feeling ennui as a civilization despite not having reached first place as a superpower yet.
>>36562 >What would be a sufficient incentive for Han Chinese to breed, supposing that's what CCP wanted? The main contributing factors keeping young people from fucking in China are the gender imbalance (not enough women) and the wealth inequality skewed towards older people, in part because of the one-child policy. There's not much that can be done about the urban issue, but incentivizing child rearing through maternal-specific safety nets and encouraging immigration of women to China would go a long way. The wealth inequality issue isn't solvable in my opinion because the titanic has already struck the iceberg and we're just waiting until the ship sinks (the only solution but one that would be very bad for the CCP). Dunno man, I know economics, but I'm not an economist and the only solutions involve pulling out the knives/arrows already stuck in the flesh.
>>36563 >Importing women (from SEA/East Europe) This would weaken the local region as a whole, which would be bad for China in the long run, since China has severe weaknesses they should leave to allies to cover for. For one, they're not very athletic or nautical in spirit. They'll need more naturally decisive and ship worthy allies to learn from when they finally have serious wars. I think the issue of wealth and liberals can be combined. Find Western and liberal sympathizers, make them fair game for the government and their rivals to purge. Of nationalists, target the particularly dumb, useless, and wasteful to purge. Again, fake virus lockdowns, and the passivity of the common people give a huge advantage. Distribute the stolen wealth to the young, favoring the loyal. Incentivize loyalty from the remaining young by using the remaining pool of wealth for recruitment programs.
So is China's population shrinkage an actual political threat? Because like anons said, they can be more brutal on their people. It just sounds like Western propaganda to try to fool China into forcing swarthoids into the country. And the only reason Western countries let those immigrants in is because Jews put both Westerners and swarthoids in serious debt, forcing politicians to put their hands in the Jewish bag of tricks. I've heard China is Jew controlled. I don't know, but if they were once Jew manipulated for the Soviet period, they aren't taking top-down LGBT or immigrant nonsense like everywhere else.
>>36649 Historically speaking, people aren't willing to take life unless they are making life. If you don't believe in rights, liberty, or any other American ideals you can still point to the fact that America is rapidly losing its ability to wage war because the soldiers lack soul, and the numbers reflect this. Nowhere is this sayong more obvious than in Ukraine where hopes of insurgency are being dashed because Ukrainians have a dwindling population and no strong ideals they stand by (which is why they rely on their nationalist institutions to raise the war spirit, much to the annoyance of Western leaders who don't want to admit it). Yes, China has a large enough population to throw people away for the next ten years, but it is a direct threat to their expansionist policy and they are approaching a point of no return that took America 80 years in the course of about 30-40. The Chinese nationalists are a vocal minority, but even they aren't having enough kids to meet the PLA army's demands. I just want to point out the humor of the acronym PLA in relation to 3D printing. The plastic army, heh. China has maybe one or two good wars before it becomes possible for other countries to wrest territory from them based on pretty much every similar situation in the last five decades. I don't buy into the narrative that somehow their brutality and fringe Chink nationalism is going to let them accomplish what nobody else could when they are rapidly degenerating faster than anyone else could. Honestly China needs Jesus. Or at least some kind of spiritual enlightenment movement to reinvigorate them.
Why don't the Chinese use the population they're trying to get rid off, useless old people and everyone past the 700 million essential personnel mark, for colonizing pushover nations like Canada, Australia, Malaysia, Central Asian -Stans?
>>36739 Because the old people are how the party remains in power sort of like how 50% of millennials and 70% of Zoomers support civil war, but 80% of Gen X and 90% of Boomers oppose it (not the literal numbers but close to them in polling) interpret that about a dozen different ways). Plus you need young people to populate foreign regions because you want them to fuck and have kids. Old people are good for holding defensive positions since they don't have to move around much, but they are shit for offensive operations in war.
>>36649 Politically? No, they can just continue playing up the nationalism angle, which seems to be working. The minute they begin importing foreigners is the minute the nationalism card stops working. Besides, it wouldn't work without a serious indoctrination push, the China Chinese are notoriously discriminatory against even overseas-born Chinese, what more some subhuman from bumfuck nowhere? No, the real threat is the lack of warm bodies to fuel China's industry. It's not just the one-child policy coming to bite them in the ass, it's also the absolutely fucked up environment in China ensuring the would-be rural babymakers enjoy a burgeoning infant mortality rate, and also the 996 working culture in most cities squeezing people hard enough to not want to make babies. On top of all these, Xi hasn't managed to consolidate power as much as he'd like. The next decade is going to be very interesting.

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