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Russia vs Ukraine Strelok 04/02/2021 (Fri) 15:11:32 No.14576
Things seem to be heating up and I think this deserves its own discussion thread. Or at least I think it will soon. https://archive.is/bpADR https://archive.is/gA8ee How big do you think this will get? Will it spill over into Europe? Will Biden do something retarded that makes things worse?
>>20204 >With Ukraine becoming increasingly anti-Russian instead of pro-Ukraine, A distinction without a difference. All the Russians' neighbors have always hated them. Russians pretend not to understand why anyone would be upset over centuries of invasion, looting, and rape. It is much, much older than the USSR for which Russian millenials who never had to wait sixteen hours in line for toilet paper or fear that a joke could result in getting disappeared by the KGB feel such nostalgia.
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>>20205 It would if not for the fact that Ukraine and Russia are just playing games (deadly games, but still games). While Taiwan has an ambiguous policy of fighting back if they get international support, the Ukrainian policy more or less amounts to "Russia won't ever attack us because it would fuck up trade with Europe, and if they do, NATO will save us" under Zelensky. It's part of what's fueling the war in the South-Eastern half, and part of why Russia wants to use Nordstream 2 as leverage against Western powers. Also Ukrainians are culturally and linguistically much closer to Russia than Taiwan is to China, so it makes it makes both sides less likely to just go full hot war. >>20207 >Ukraine is a puppet, serving the interests of the usual suspects. What I meant was that Ukraine has a dilapidated military, failing infrastructure, and laws that prevent their few good points (agriculture, mining) from being used to generate real "we can afford shit for our military" kind of revenue. The old defense minister more or less sat on his ass playing good cop to Zelensky's bad cop with Russia. Considering how Zelensky is installing his American-friendly puppet government and purging anyone who so much as looks at him wrong, I can only see a hardliner being put in. I'm curious if the hardliner will be equally corrupt or will accidentally spur nationalist sentiment among Ukrainians to get a hot war going on accident. >Ukrainians are the new Poles Not surprising. Their industry consisted of mining, machining, and agriculture. Ukraine's western government is green-inclusive, lost all the machining jobs to China and other European countries, and can't use the farmable land they do have. I'd get the fuck out of Ukraine too. >>20208 Russians are effectively the mafia. They aren't good but they are predictable to a T. Eastern Europeans as a whole are less bad than Russians, but they are also far less predictable (unless they're Polish or Hungarian). I feel bad for the Eastern European nations getting pulled into this shit show, but Ukraine is little better than Belarus other than flying a rainbow flag instead of a hammer and sickle so it's hard to put the blame solely on the Russians in this conflict. Especially since Ukraine was de facto Russia until the 1920s, was completely subservient to Russia until WWII, and quickly fell in line after the war, with Crimea being a concession to appease the (already corrupt) Ukrainian officials of the 50s. I believe all peoples have a right to self-sovereignty so I will usually side with the group that wants to split off from the main body. In this cause, the autonomous ethnically Russian regions of Eastern Ukraine.
>>20211 >than Taiwan is to China The Taiwanese literally call themselves the Republic of China and if what Chang said in the Asia thread is accurate they've been intermarrying back into Mainland China in recent decades.
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https://archive.md/pzNAP Turkish ‘drone killer’ takes first flight >Unique anti-drone product able to fly to altitudes of 5,000 meters >A new Turkish defense product known as the "drone killer" has successfully completed its first flight. >The drone killer known as Fedai was developed for neutralizing combat drones and unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). >It is being showcased as part of SAHA Expo, a major Turkish defense event which began on Wednesday in Istanbul. >The four-day expo is showcasing Turkish defense products including UAVs, weapons, radar systems, and land and naval vehicles. >Guray Ali Canli, the head of the firm Transvaro, which makes Fedai, said it took its first flight this October. >He stressed that there is a strong foreign demand for the product and that they are preparing to meet this demand. >The first 10 specimens of the carbon-made drone-killer were manufactured through mass production, he said. >The firm prepared a five-vehicle concept for the product, including one vehicle for the control system, other one for radar, thermal camera, and jammer, and three vehicles for multi-launchers. >The firm developed two types of the product, Fedai 101 and Fedai 102, the latter – created at the request of a Southeast Asian country – able to fly at an altitude of 5,000 meters (16,400 feet). >The 102 is longer and heavier than the 101 but has more flight time capacity and explosive material, he said. >In fact, customers see Fedai as a low-altitude air defense system, not just a drone-killer, he said. >He also stressed that the product is equipped with a camera, lidar, and thermal camera. >“It’s 100% carbon, a feature that’s unique in the world,” he added. >Canli explained that the anti-drone can currently be launched from multi-launcher and launcher tubes and that they are working on a shoulder-launched version which does not require a radar system for short-range operations. >Fedai will soon be one of the Turkish defense industry’s most important export products, he said. >Canli also said that first deliveries of Fedai are expected early next year, January and February. >He stressed that the firm not only sells Fedai but also a complete system including radar, thermal cameras, jammers, and other unites. >On the global shortage of semiconductors, he said this situation along with rising raw material prices are causing problems for his firm. >The firm also established a radar manufacturer facility in central Turkey which will be operational as of January, he added. >In recent years, Turkey has become a rising star in the global defense and aviation industry. >Especially in aviation and UAVs, Turkey has several companies and brands such as Baykar and TAI which produce aerial vehicles using mostly local resources. Contract for UAV sales have been signed with countries such as NATO member Poland. Now all that's left to make Ace Combat 7 real would be an airship carrying such fresh fruits maybe this is part of Bezos' master plan with his Amazon cargo airships, albeit in an anti-partisan role with plausible deniability.
>>20211 >Eastern Europeans as a whole are less bad than Russians, but they are also far less predictable (unless they're Polish or Hungarian). Why are Poles and Hungarians more predictable, and how do they normally behave?
>>20211 >Russians are effectively the mafia. Please elaborate. If it is about Russia trying to sell gas to Europe, that shit's been going on for decades. Europe has made itself dependent. Euros can buy American gas if they like, but they don't wanna. Still they want to spit and scream at Russia for homophobia and "dictatorship". I really hope Putin just drops the northstream 2, so the Germans and bongs will freeze to death by the thousands (and by God, I live in Germany, but I can keep warm without central heating and get my food without going to the supermarket. >I believe all peoples have a right to self-sovereignty so I will usually side with the group that wants to split off from the main body. This is a good viewpoint, but not seen often. Unfortunately, hohols will scream bloody murder and continue sucking American dick for support. And if it really blows, I think we'll see another proxy world war, where America supports, and others wage war. Probably Ukraine Vs Russia, then Europe Vs Russia, Russia will get its former satellite states like Kazakhstan in the boat, and then it'll be a real shitfest.
>>20402 They are globalists without globalism so they are easy to predict. Hungarians/Poles are pro-working with everyone and anyone regardless of cultural difference until that other culture wants to impose non-economic ideas on them at which point they become full Nationalist in policy. It's not that other Eastern Europeans won't do this to a lesser extent, but they usually they have other localized social values that override the above.
>>20403 >Please elaborate A mafia first and foremost protects its clientele and makes sure they have a viable business model in order to stay in business themselves. When there is no competition, they tend to extort their clientele. When there is competition, they tend to try and provide a better service, or at least one that makes them prefer them over the rival factions. If you give a mafia a standard operating range and tell them you'll kick their shit in if they leave it, they will usually be satisfied with that arrangement. When you actively encroach on a mafia's territory after making those boundaries, a gang war erupts. Russia is the mafia and Ukraine was one of the primary clientele. America encroached via NATO so Russia started a gang war via gas supply and Ukraine (their main client who was considering paying a different gang to provide a protection racket). Mafias have to be kept in check to some degree, but are ultimately very predictable in how they respond if you over-encroach on their territory or act weak giving them an excuse to expand. When you treat Russia's government as a mafia, most of their policies begin to make sense and they become extremely predictable. Russia is no longer the USSR. It would be better for America to set up boundaries with them instead of trying to turn all of Eastern Europe into a war zone as soon as the Americas are distracted by China. Unironically Trump was working on this (even if he fucked up elsewhere) which is why he avoided the Ukraine question fast and hard. The reason the Democrats want Russia as a boogeyman is because the Cold War mentality Boomers among the conservatives are dying and the younger generations of conservatives want to restore "Tsarist Russian" style diplomatic relations. America and Russia don't need to be enemies any more and all of Europe would be more stable if they cut that shit out. They just need to respect each other's boundaries and agreements. From what I understand the younger generations of Russians as well consider America a threat because America won't fuck off, not because of cold war sentimentality. I mean there's still the Japanese issue but that's minor compared to the shit on the Western half of Russia.
>>20406 that makes sense. I always saw that exactly how a normal country/state/kingdom should operate, as it provides stability, it is the most beneficial for both ruler and ruled in the same country, and it is even morally right. I guess mafias are pretty good guys after all.
>>20408 I mean countries are just large-scale organized crime so you aren't wrong.
>>20411 >I mean societies are just large-scale organized crime so you aren't wrong. Fix that for you, strelok. Looks like BBC and the other typical sources are drumming up the whole "Russia gonna invade Ukraine!!! NATO FUNDING REEEE!" narrative >>20406 >US-Russian relations reset Absent a proper war with someone China/India/EU which the US has a chance of loosing, I doubt it. Congress, has in is ever-lasting vanity, decided to have all but in name written itself as Caligula. The founding fathers killed gods upon an altar of science, and raised from its corpses a homunculus of divinity steeped in an amalgamation of men. LBJ has vanquished the bastard of men upon an altar of welfare, and replaced it with the state. Mark Zuckerberg has killed the state on an altar of vanity and public opinon, and raised a festering mechanical abomination ruled by an Sillicon ring of oligarchs. God may have mercy, but he is dead.
>>20412 You're right that I misspoke, but I meant to say governments, not societies. You can have one, both, or neither, in no particular combination.
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How a Dispute Over Groceries Led to Artillery Strikes in Ukraine https://archive.md/QfU10 Not gonna post the fluff but I mentioned it in the /k/anteen so it deserves proper acknowledgement. tl;dr- >Hranitne (Гранітне) has a several-km-wide no-man's-land gap >Runs through separating the commercial part of the town from the residential part >Few hundred people live in no-man's-land >No fighting so it's fine >Separatists close down the only vehicular bridge connecting the two halves because of COVID >Civilians allowed across but only by foot on a footbridge >"Mayor" of the Ukrainian side gets pissed off >Decides to whip out his dick and send a contingent of soldiers across the bridge to lay down the foundation for a new vehicular bridge 700 meters away from the footbridge >Separatists get pissed and start artillery shelling the position to destroy the new bridge's foundation >Whether intentional or just poor shots, they miss >Repeatedly >Several houses and farms fucked up, 1 Ukraine soldier dead, no civilian casualties >Bridge completely safe >Mayor orders a drone strike to take out the artillery in retribution >Separatists tell their side abd explain that they thought the mayor was trying to unload military equipment across the river in their territory >When questioned by his own side, mayor backtracks and admits he might have forgotten to mention he sent enemy soldiers into enemy territory to secure the perimeter >Now nobody can get groceries because tensions are high >And there's a Russian fleet of tanks on Ukraine's border that might actually be serious for once because Putin is waving his dick around in response Let it be remembered that if Russia actually does invade Ukraine (unlikely), it was done over the inconvenience of having to walk a few kilometers to buy eggs and milk while living in a warzone. Pics related. The footbridge, the grocery store, and one of the houses hit. Apparently Western Ukraine is now building an underground military bunker in response to the shelling and erecting concrete triangles along the major roadways.
>>20494 Balkan-tier
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In other news, the Western media is in an uproar that Putin won't allow Russia to be on the backburner while dealing with China. Maybe instead of throwing a temper tantrum over Russia when they've shat on them for the last year, America should work to normalize working relations with the Russians to avoid further conflict the way Biden did while sucking Xi's cock over video call the other day.
>>14576 hohol is not a real country lol
>>20534 Funny, how in the modern world, the realist who wants his fellow countrymen to be okay is a bad dictator, and the cabal of powerhungry career politicians are good, righteous humanitarians. I wish there would be something to speed up the fall of yurop. Is this a battle of Patience? Or is sabotage a viable option for bringing down the current regime?
>>20537 Knock the electric ghost out and watch norms become foaming at the mouth rabid dogs.
>>20494 >Mayor orders a drone strike MAJOR orders a dronestrike. The mayor only ordered the retarded bridge.
>>20543 The article explicitly said the mayor ordered it.
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>>20544 It really doesn't.
>>20545 I concede I misread the article.
For the anon wondering why Eastern Ukraine doesn't stop coal exports to Western Ukraine, they already did stop. https://archive.md/Cbnoa >“Blackouts can only scare those who have disabled logic and critical thinking,” President Zelenskiy assured > “It’s better not to watch them at all – it saves [your] nerves and electricity,” He's not wrong but he's also an idiot puppet.
Also Foreign Policy did an article explaining why Russia won't invade Ukraine proper using the Georgia invasion and Crimea occupation as general examples. https://archive.md/x3IyY
https://archive.ph/M1Gyo >Germany and France set up peace talks with Russia over Donbass >Russia says their foreign minister is busy that day months in advance and they need to reschedule (whether true or not doesn't matter) >Germany and France go to the news media to publicize Russia not starting peace talks >Russia releases the classified documents showing they told Germany and France they couldn't attend that day long in advance >Germany and France cry foul play for releasing classified documents >Merkel is the only one trying to get peace talks arranged and telling France to shut the fuck up about the leaked documents ironically enough This really is clown world when Merkel is the only one who seems to give a shit.
>>20659 this is only clown world if you forget about the fact, that german politicians will get their collective asses fucked sideways with rusty rebar, if they don't get their shit together and appease russia so they can get the gas deal back on track. The german academics and some super-cucked politicians may act cool and proud, and reject russia because "muh bad dicktator", but the ones who are backed by german companies, whose livelihood (and even their lives) depend on getting the gas, won't fuck around and find out, they will give german companies what they want: high quality russian gas, cheap, clean and uncompressed, shipped through the pipe, right to their doorstep. If Merkel fails to do that, she will absolutely, 100%, lose everything and be left to rot in a ditch.
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>>20662 I understand that fact but it's still clown world that she even has to fight a bunch of academics and clueless politicians to secure basic supplies for Germany. It would be like Xi sucking Biden's dick to get soybean and corn imports for China (likely but not yet). Speaking of, has the US done anything about their self-created fertilizer shortage or is the world about to start sucking Brazil's dick for agriculture products next Summer?
>>20663 >Produce from Brazil I wouldn't know, I grow my own food. Harvested quite a lot of good apples this year, and already pickled my veggies and some sauerkraut. I'll build a bow next year, in order to poach (because getting a loicense here is fucking unrealistic, and getting a place to hunt is completely out of the question, if you're not childhood Friends with a hunter or working for the government.
>>20663 India doesn't export food? it's one of the few countries where agriculture makes up more than 50% of the workforce
>>20691 I'm not sure if they do or not, but if 50% of the population still works in agriculture, then the overwhelming majority of them are dirtfarmers with very little to sell to the market, compared to a highly efficient first world agricultural business.
>>20691 Much like China, most of India, outside the major cities, lives in the fucking dark ages. There's a reason they start worshiping porcelain toilets when they see one. This includes their agricultural techniques. Forget deep-soil ploughing, forget chemical fertilizers, forget pesticide sprays, forget efficient seed distribution. They're working with animal-pulled ploughs (wooden, if they're particularly unlucky), and the very richest of them may have a tractor from WW1.
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>>20693 Fuck, posted too early. Here's a short paper bemoaning the fact that some pajeets still can't into crop rotation in 2021.
>>20693 Doesn't this ironically mean they would do well if SHTF?
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>>20691 It took a global pandemic for India to break into the top 10 agricultural exporters (by value), and that's only because cotton falls under agricultural export. They still fall behind Mexico for goods exported. It's hard to get by volume estimates because several countries consider that part of national defense. By value is a shit measurement since it would mean the Netherlands is the second largest agricultural exporter in the world (they are not) due to the flower, nightshade (tomato), and pepper trade, even though they contribute almost no major grains to the world market. India's major exports are cotton, rice, soybeans, and beef (because water buffalo can be sold as carabeef). India as a whole produces a fuck ton of other grains by volume (they are the world's largest producer of millet, and second largest producer of lentils and wheat), however India imports almost as much as they export, so their export of grain is abysmal. Due to how much food they import at the same time they are exporting, they only make up about 3% of world exports after subtracting imports of the same products. India is a large country and thus it is sometimes cheaper to export to neighbors on one side of the country while importing from neighbors on the other side, rather than risk the poo trains.
>>20696 The rural regions would be. The cities would starve. The issue is that the urbanites would flee to the rural regions in the event of SHTF. Also keep in mind most Indians are farmers by necessity because they can't get a job working in a city and have to eat.
>>20698 Yeah that's what I meant, since they're so backward they aren't reliant on industrial supply chains. >>20697 Today I found out pajeets can eat buffalo meat but not beef, despite both being bovines.
>>20700 >Today I found out pajeets can eat buffalo meat but not beef, despite both being bovines. It's more a matter of it being illegal to eat beef due to religious significance but not illegal to eat water buffalo. Hinduism's core tenant is that you must never cause suffering for another living thing. In an ideal Hindu world, predators are basically expected to just magically disappear and everyone gets along with the cows and orangutans and sheep, etc. It's why India has the largest vegetarian population in the world, due to religious doctrine. Cows are one of the most sacred animals since one of their gods milked a divine cow in order to make the lands fertile for people to farm. While old Hinduism didn't take it to these extremes (you were in fact expected to eat beef at a funeral, for instance), new-age Hinduism cranks up the vegetarian pacifist undertones to 11 and so almost all of India's regions (except the North-Eastern ones that honor the old traditions and the Muslim regions) ban the slaughter of cows.
>>20710 And then there's the other religions or sects that take it even further. I knew one Indian guy who couldn't even eat root or bulb vegetables like onion, since it required killing the plant. No idea if he was a sect of Hindu or something like a Jain.
>>20716 Don't the Jains sweep the ground before them as they walk so they don't accidentally step on bugs?
>>20710 > India has the largest vegetarian population in the world Also the 2nd most diabetic population in the world (The chinks being #1, but it's expected that the poos will take their place by the 2040s). Wow, it's almost as if carbs are cancer and the only reason the human body can digest them is in case of emergency (starvation, winter)
>>20829 >Wow, it's almost as if carbs are cancer and the only reason the human body can digest them is in case of emergency (starvation, winter) Complex carbs maybe, but even then it's usually an issue of gluten, not carbohydrates. The issue is that cheap foods are mostly carbohydrates, not that stupid people eat mainly carbohydrates.
The media was really pushing hard for war today. I saw a bunch of news stories, interviews with western hohols, and so on talking about how Russian invasion was imminent.
>>20852 >Today They've been at it for the last two weeks.
Actually the coal mine story catches my interest. Usually the west doesn't give a shit about Russian affairs, so why are they mentioning this coal mine accident in the same breath they are discussing this alleged coup? Makes me think the glowniggers had something to do with that mine collapse.
I'm having trouble finding the video outside of The Daily Beast, but why is Tucker Carlson the only one who seems to give a shit about the fact that Ukraine is this generation's Vietnam? We have no business in Ukraine. The Cold War is over. Holy shit. https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-asks-why-would-we-take-ukraines-side-and-not-russias https://archive.md/RQcM9 Direct link because the 9 minute video is worth watching. Tucker shits on Mike Turner (Ohio house member) for several minutes. Turner has to keep backtracking and basically ends up calling Tucker a retard for asking why Americans are supposed to give a rat's ass about Ukraine.
>>20858 >The Cold War is over. Holy shit. Got to recreate the Cold War to make people forget of issues at home. But this isn't new. America has wanted Russia to be the bad guy for years now and has spurned every chance for cooperation if it means more opportunity to increase a defense budget because otherwise the evil ruskies will come. Of course now China is thrown in too for good measure.
>cold war = geopolitical tension are we not geopolitically tense right now still? lol
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look, a face with bright orange pink skin
>>20862 what did he mean by this...?

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