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Asian military history Strelok 12/14/2020 (Mon) 12:30:01 No.10850
A thread where we can discuss anything from horse archery to why the two Koreas should be reunified as part of the Great Japanese Empire.
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>>10930 They were sort of surrounded by a mostly-American embargo that kept them from really doing that since they fully expected the Americans to mysteriously get involved before orders should have arrived if they were to engage that region in any way without dealing with the Burgers first.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Talas It's kind of strange to realize that there were Chinese-Arab battles in history.
China has had its worst blackouts in years because of its boycott of Australian coal over its call to investigate the origins of the coronavirus early in 2020: China suffers worst power blackouts in a decade on export boom, coal supply shortage >Businessman Lin Xianxin was finally starting to see his luck turn around after production at his Wenzhou factory was disrupted by the coronavirus pandemic early this year. >With China’s economy rapidly recovering from the outbreak and the close of the year bringing a rush of seasonal orders, Lin was running his factory at full capacity and well on his way to recouping his first-quarter losses. >But all that came grinding to a halt on Tuesday last week, when authorities cut electricity to his business. >“It hit us badly,” said Lin, the manager of Wenzhou Ming Yu Packaging in the eastern port city. “Cutting off the electricity at the busiest time of the year is unreasonable. All the orders after Tuesday had to be delayed, and some may be cancelled.” >Wenzhou has not seen large-scale electricity rationing in years, according to Lin, and this month’s blackouts – three in total – would cost him 50,000 yuan (US$7,637) per day. >For a small factory like Lin’s, still struggling to get back on its feet, the losses are huge – and he’s not the only one feeling the pressure. >Provinces across China are struggling with the worst blackouts in nearly a decade. With exports booming and the appetite for electricity surging in the industrial sector, this year’s winter power consumption has exceeded that of the summer months for the first time in about 10 years. And power generation cannot keep up with demand. >This year’s annual consumption is projected to increase 3% from 2019, despite the impact of the coronavirus. China’s power consumption in November alone stood at 646.7 billion kWh, the highest level in 27 months. >More than a dozen cities in Zhejiang, Hunan, Jiangxi, Shaanxi and Guangdong provinces have imposed limits on off-peak electricity use for factories since mid-December. Week-long blackouts in different areas have been imposed in Shenzhen, China’s tech capital, which has the nation’s highest gross domestic product per capita. >A source close to the national power system told the South China Morning Post that electricity restrictions will be imposed this week in the eastern province of Jiangsu, as well. >Many analysts have linked China’s current predicament to its ban on Australian coal, but the government has denied that is the cause. >Beijing restricted a number of Australian imports, including coal, after Canberra called for an investigation into the origin of the coronavirus, which was first identified in China, early this year. >Cargo ships holding as much as US$500 million worth of Australian coal have been anchored off China’s coast waiting for permission to unload as the row between the two nations shows no sign of easing, Bloomberg reported last month. >Australian coal accounted for about 41% of China’s total coking coal imports last year, and about 25% of thermal coal imports, according to China Coal Big Data Centre, a Shanxi-based think tank focusing on energy issues. >Most thermal coal imported from Australia is used in central, southern and eastern China, particularly in coastal cities, as the cost to ship it north is too high. As a result, the Australian coal ban has had a larger impact on these cities, said one analyst, who asked to remain anonymous because of the sensitivity of the topic. >Multiple sources in Chinese media told the Post they had been ordered not to link the recent electricity cuts to restrictions on Australian coal. Global Times, a state-backed tabloid, said on Saturday that “Australia’s coal import ratio is only 2%” and it had “nothing to do with China’s temporary power shortages”. >Disruptions in domestic coal supply have only added to the power generation problem. >China tightened standards this year for the reopening of mines closed after accidents, which has been a blow to domestic coal production. >In the first 11 months of the year, 13 accidents occurred in Shanxi, China’s coal mining hub, killing 26 workers. As a result, the province is expected to shut down all of its small coal mines with annual capacity below 600,000 tonnes by the end of the year. >Coal production in Inner Mongolia, home to a third of China’s coal output, has been disrupted, too. Corruption probes launched this year into the development of mines over the past two decades have hurt output in the autonomous region, which has 523 mines with a combined capacity estimated to be 1.3 billion tonnes a year. >Because demand for coal has surged above available supply, coal prices have skyrocketed since October to their highest level since May of 2019. >Coal imports fell 15% in November compared with a year earlier and were down about 21% from October following restrictions on imports from Australia and Indonesia. https://web.archive.org/web/20210103122934/https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3115119/china-suffers-worst-power-blackouts-decade-post-coronavirus
>>11666 I take the commie party doesn't realize that such an open economy relies on trade, and so restricting it as a form of punishment can hurt them just the same, if not more. But due to their culture they have to save face, and they can't start punitive campaigns, so mean words and trade sanctions are their only two options. I hope it will lead to a downward spiral where they will be more ˝aggressive˝ and sanction other countries even for the smallest ˝insulst˝ just to prove themselves how strong and important they are, but then every sanction weakens their own economy, and they will feel that their only option is to be even more ˝aggressive˝, and so they will sanction even more countries. In the end they will destroy the economy they built up over the decades.
>>11666 China is both one of the largest coal exporters and importers at the same time. Mainly because its not easy to transport it en mass from nothern china down south (humidity really fucks it over too). Easier to import from Aus and export the coal from Manchuria to best korea, SK, and Japan. Strange logistics game going on, we'll see if they can substitute it from someone else or build enough infrastructure (hint they wont: Because of mountainous terrain).
>>11668 Couldn't they turn the coal into gas or liquid and just pump it south on pipelines? It's a relatively simple process, and I even remember years ago finding a video by a chink company that was working with this technology. Of course those coal power plants on the south are most likely set up for steam turbines, and although you can just burn the gasified or liquefied coal to produce steam, but gas turbines or diesel engines would be better. Not to mention that building up the infrastructure will take years at best. Really, they should have thought about it before they start playing this game.
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Chinese have deployed tanks opposite Indian army outposts on Sino-Indian border
>>11672 How strong are the chinks and hindu tanks?
>>11676 IIRC the Chinese were performing exercises with a new lightweight tank in the summer for high-altitudes. The Indians only need to defend with their T-72s and T-90s though.
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>>11671 Chinese coal is not high quality, its usually Subbituminous and lignite. I don't know if that affects liquidifcation. The real reason is because the mountain ranges a pipeline goes through would be unstable and thus and earthquake then the entire eastern half of the chinese yellow/yangtze river drainage basin would be big dead >>11677 >>11677 The ZTQ 15 (Export is VT-5)? It's designed for high altitude/ marshland terrains (read vietnam) and is (supposedly) amphibious. The chinese claim it to be able to resist the 3M42 (??? Not sure what this is refering to because its not in GRAU index iirc- GRAU would be 3V(B/K)XX), can pen a T-90s frontally and has no issues with the T72M at range The question is what range can they pen the T-90S with?. >『VT-5轻型坦克经过这样改进和升级之后,整体作战能力又有明显提高。由于战斗全重较轻,发动机功率大,它更能适应南亚热带水网作战环境。105毫米线膛炮采用中国新一代尾翼稳定脱壳穿甲弹,可以击穿T-90S主战坦克车体,其他例如T-72M更是不在话下,配备了FY-4反应装甲之后,也能抵御3M42尾翼稳定脱壳穿甲弹攻击。』 It that is to be true, said tank has no side/top armor, and the engine capacbilities of the chinese have improved from the 90s (plausible, biggest issue with previous chinese tanks was armor though... Not that it matters if your engine can't run in tibet). According to chinese state sourcesit uses a 105mm APFSDS round that shoots projectiles capable of penetrating 500 mm armored steel at 2,000 metres. >http://tv.cctv.com/2020/04/07/VIDEGF5bLefg5DPpbvjVRMBm200407.shtml >picture related is state photograph prototype Supposedly the ZTQ-15 doesn't have a laser sight, I wonder if its because of adverse weather its supposed to be fighting in (tibet/southern china) or weight concerns? Wikipedia I know, I know gives an uncited source for the T-90MS and a cited T-90A as follows: Only T-90A Kontakt-5 800–830 vs APFSDS 1150–1350 against HEAT T-90M / T-90MS Relikt 1100–1300mm against APFSDS 1350+mm against HEAT My guess is that the Indian version lies somewhere in between these two numbers. that leads to roughly 830-1100mm against APFSDS and 1150-1350+ against HEAT as a conservative estimate Also the weight of the T90MS / A would be in the range of 46-49 tons. That puts it at a pretty bad disadvnatage against the more mobile light tank. In this case, I'd expect the chinese tank deployment to be a defensive one. After all, India has has the advantage with shorter supply lines and more favorable terrain. At the same time, I wonder if the T-90s can go at the altitude? I know the Chinese imported engines from the Americans on their trains for the longest time were one of the few things that was reliable at above 3000m. So either the Chinese deployment is a show of force and not really meant to be offensive, or between now and April of last year the Chinese came up with some super sekret round that shits on most modern MBTs. I have doubts about the former. Maybe it the ZTQ can fire some sort of ATGM?
>>11680 I meant latter, but the point still stands. We know that India has access to the 9M133 Kornet and the 9m119 Sivir/refleks, the question is, how many, and if weather/terrain is favorable to the combat conditions (after all, you can't hit a tank you can't see). Keep an eye out for a Chinese research flight on the border, most likely it will be seeding silver to cause rainfall.
>>11682 >during the Qin Dynasty, that some arrows were forged in a cellular manufacturing method instead of the traditional assembly line method What does any of that mean?
>>11683 Assembly line is where one person does one job continously, think of it as down the line A->B->C in large lots Celluar is a "Just in time" AKA: Modern day consumerisim bullshit theory system where a person(s) instead of makes it in linear steps, makes them in small batches without moving between departments in large batches and usually in a U shaped bend to save space. It's interesting how sometimes "novel" ideas have had much larger historical examples that were forgotten.
>>11680 The Chinese might have some new ideas after seeing the Azeri drone use in 2020.
>>11672 I could be mistaken but didn't both China and India agree not to keep any firearms or explosives on the border? Unless those tanks have no ammunition, this is basically an act of war right?
>>11721 They both went ahead and militarized the border after June because the loophole of allowing informal melees had already gotten people killed.
>>11666 I hope the three gorges dam is too damaged to withstand anudda round of flooding.
Are there any documents or physical shit about the nippons ancient warfere and warriors? And also why did china get so much late into the iron age? Why did the always used lammelar? What was it's main selling point? Also are there any documents about the "Iron budha" or chinese catapharct and or early chinese units and warriors?
>>10940 Drilling for oil is more complicated than "there is oil here." There's about 30 trillion dollars worth of oil under North Dakota, but with modern equipment we can STILL only access the surface shit. Similarly most Chinese oil wells are not profitable without modern drilling techniques that go several thousand feet deeper into the earth than methods available in the 1930s/1940s. The reason the Saudis are so well off today is because they have shallow oil wells instead of deep oil sand deposits that the rest of the world deals with and has to process to extract crude from.
>>11667 They'll just learn the true meaning of "let them eat cake" since the government itself is nice and fat while everyone else starves. You're likely to see rhetoric where the Commie party are shown eating feasts while people are rationing food here in the next few months due to food shortages.
>>11751 How damaged was it from the prior flooding? I hadn't heard much happened to it at all.
>>11863 Not that much. The concrete had warped, but concrete is supposed to do that under heavy loads from a materials engineering perspective. Another round of major rainfall would fuck over food production more than it's fucked right now, but even the CCP isn't stupid enough to allow a bread famine to happen during their military expansion years, so they probably made minimal repairs. Plus last year's storms really were freaks of nature. They're still going to experience famine and rain like last year would make it worse, but the government would have to be collapsing to allow that dam to collapse. Doubly so when they're suffering from energy dependence.
>>11866 >rain don't forget, the CCP was heavily seeding clouds with AgI packets. I wonder if they'll cut back on it this year.
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>>11940 Kek. What I find even more humorous about this is the women and soys feeling qualified to ridicule the soldiers as 'boys', implying they could even stand up to the basic training, much less the austere conditions of deployment in such a barren landscape. And that's simply if the peace holds...
>>11940 Thanks for using wayback, btw. The idea that anons still continue to use the cuckflared archive.today sites it beyond me.
>>11942 I started doing it to avoid having to paste the original link since you can't automatically tell where an archive.today page actually leads, and Wayback seems to have cloned whatever method archive.today uses anyway and can take the traffic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Nepalese_War#Second_Invasion >Tibet had been using Nepalese silver coins since the time of the Malla kings. When Prithvi Narayan Shah of the Gorkha Kingdom launched an economic blockade on the Kathmandu Valley during his unification campaign, Jaya Prakash Malla of Kathmandu faced an economic crisis which he tried to alleviate by minting low quality coins mixed with copper. After Prithvi Narayan Shah successfully conquered the Kathmandu Valley in 1769 and firmly established the rule of the Shah dynasty in Nepal, he reverted to minting pure silver coins. But by then the damage to the confidence of the Nepalese minted coins had already been done. The Tibetans demanded that all the impure coins in circulation be replaced by pure silver ones, a demand that would place a huge financial burden on the newly founded Shah dynasty. Prithvi Narayan Shah was not willing to bear such a huge loss in a matter for which he was not responsible, but was willing to vouch for the purity of the newly minted coins. Thus two kinds of coins were in circulation in the market. The case remained unresolved due to his untimely demise in 1775, and the problem was inherited by successive rulers of Nepal. >By 1788 Bahadur Shah, the youngest son of Prithivi Narayan Shah, and the uncle and regent of the minor king Rana Bahadur Shah, had inherited an aggravated coinage problem. On the plea of debased coins, Tibet had started to spread rumors that it was in a position to attack Nepal; and the Nepalese merchants in Tibet were likewise harassed. Another sore point in Nepal-Tibet relationship was Nepal’s decision to provide refuge to the 10th Shamarpa Lama, Mipam Chödrup Gyamtso, and his fourteen Tibetan followers. He had fled from Tibet to Nepal on religious and political grounds. Yet another cause for conflict was the low quality of salt being provided by Tibetans to Nepal, since in those days, all the salt in Nepal came from Tibet. A Nepalese delegation was sent to Tibet to resolve these issues, but the demands made by the Nepalese were rejected by the Tibetans. The Nepalese found the quarrel over coinage a good pretext to expand their kingdom and to raid the rich monasteries in Tibet. Thus, Nepal launched multi-directional attacks on Tibet. So there was a war between Tibet and Nepal in the end of the 18th century, started over the quality of silver coins and salt.
>>11440 '96 and '05 look like toys, plastic helmets and awful dollar store patterns. Do they actually work well in China? >2015 So they're always 20-30 years behind?
>>12062 Depends. On some fronts more than 50 years behind (see aircraft engines, ships). On others they are up to date if not slightly behind by a year or so (See Rockets, APS, lasers that arent powered by nuclear). >helmets None of them work well in all of china, only the eastern half. Desert camo for Qinghai and Xinjiang, and alpine variation for Tibet (that looks more like a grey artic tbh), doesn't include urban pattern too.
>>12063 >None of them work well in all of china Obviously, it's a huge country, but even in the mountainous/arboreal locations those patterns look more like toy versions.
>>12064 It's mainly designed for use in the jungle in southern China and along the Siberian border with the Ruskies. There's been more emphasis on Tibet recently since the real fight seems to be along the Xinjiang border with the ruskies (not so much the north east... kinda like US rust belt there), and the southern border because of Vietnam.
>>12066 >the real fight seems to be along the Xinjiang border with the ruskies Are they preparing for a potential conflict with Russia, or is it because they simply feel that the area is currently undefended?
>>12067 The Chinese-Russian relations are one of necessity. The Uighur independence movement started with the Soviets supporting Eastern Turkmenistan in the 50s. So thats why (also lots of natrual gas and oil supposedly). It also can cut of the trans-siberian railroad and cut off the rest of the Russian Far east. since's its close to it and allow for the severing of Russia in two.
>>12064 > those patterns look more like toy versions They're made in China what did you expect.
>>12068 >The Chinese-Russian relations are one of necessity. I'm well aware of that, but one would think that neither of them wants to clash right now, when the world is in disarray and both of them can strengthen their position. That's why I'm asking if they are preparing for an attack in the foreseeable future, or if they are building up their military just in case. >its close to it and allow for the severing of Russia in two. Looking at a map, they only have a rather small common border, and even that is in the middle of a mountain range. Although I imagine Mongolia and Kazakhstan would get involved in a way or an other, and that widens the front quite a bit. It still looks like a plan that will go horribly wrong no matter what.
>>12072 >strengthen their position No, China would much rather let the EU be strong with a weak Russia. The seconds the US goes down China and Russia will go at it. It'll be EU/China/Pakistan vs RU/India/UK TBH a US-Russia rapprochement would be really nice for geopolitics right now but won't ever happen >mongolia They won't get involved (or rather, neither of them will let them get involved). First thing that happens in a Sino-Russian conflict is that Mongolia gets mined to hell and back by the Chinese if not straight up nuked. >Khazakhastan Yeah its China vs Khazakh and Russia.
>>12073 I know the UK has it's issues with the EU but would it really side with Russia over them?
>>12073 >implying the EU is ever in a position to do much of anything except self-harm
>>12073 >UK on Russia's side >EU on China's side I don't really see that happening. That war would be a logistical nightmare for Russia, fighting a two front war between such vast distances. They'd do whatever is necessary to keep the EU out. If Germany were smart they'd demand East Prussia back for non-aggression pact. tfw it will never happen
>>12075 >Mandatory diversity quotas >all transgender brigade >Muslim divisions >pantyfa put in auschwitz for CCP 5th column >all of Europe's problems wiped out in one war
>>12080 What if the enemy has the ingenious idea of going for the population centers since that military would be incapable of resisting?
>>12082 War crime bombing in WWII showed that doesn't have much of a demoralizing effect. In nearly all cities that were bombed war support actually went up.
>>12085 War support can't go up if there is nobody left alive to support the war.
>>12087 That's why the USAF conducted firebombing instead of "terror bombing" since the Blitz didn't work on the Brits despite the fanfare.
>>12088 I'm referring to their crowning achievement here: nukes. A nuclear strike destroys most of the infrastructure and kills most of the people in a given city, so their war-making potential is simply gone for the most part. Also, it was USAAF back then.
>>12085 >War crime bombing in WWII showed that doesn't have much of a demoralizing effect. There's some research though that indicates that it was only the disciplined or totalitarian character of the societies in the West back then which helped themto endure. Today bug people might endure it, India would crumble like a paperbag. >>12089 Who would use nukes these days while knowing the favor will be repayed in kind? That might be something a small cult like group of crazed doomer fanatics might do but even the most likely candidate a hardcore islamist turned Pakistan would still be too rational to do it.
>>12090 Bug people only endure because their government has made sure the illusion of the social contract remains in place. The moment it's gone, the bugs will turncoat.
>>12090 Property crime increased during the bombings but the government was able to portray a united response. Today the government would be too busy infighting.
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Chinese propaganda bureau releases footage of PLA Navy practicing tactical Engrish. New leather uniform Kim with ushanka.

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