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"The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war." - Otamin

Asian military history Strelok 12/14/2020 (Mon) 12:30:01 No.10850
A thread where we can discuss anything from horse archery to why the two Koreas should be reunified as part of the Great Japanese Empire.
>>11940 Thanks for using wayback, btw. The idea that anons still continue to use the cuckflared archive.today sites it beyond me.
>>11942 I started doing it to avoid having to paste the original link since you can't automatically tell where an archive.today page actually leads, and Wayback seems to have cloned whatever method archive.today uses anyway and can take the traffic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Nepalese_War#Second_Invasion >Tibet had been using Nepalese silver coins since the time of the Malla kings. When Prithvi Narayan Shah of the Gorkha Kingdom launched an economic blockade on the Kathmandu Valley during his unification campaign, Jaya Prakash Malla of Kathmandu faced an economic crisis which he tried to alleviate by minting low quality coins mixed with copper. After Prithvi Narayan Shah successfully conquered the Kathmandu Valley in 1769 and firmly established the rule of the Shah dynasty in Nepal, he reverted to minting pure silver coins. But by then the damage to the confidence of the Nepalese minted coins had already been done. The Tibetans demanded that all the impure coins in circulation be replaced by pure silver ones, a demand that would place a huge financial burden on the newly founded Shah dynasty. Prithvi Narayan Shah was not willing to bear such a huge loss in a matter for which he was not responsible, but was willing to vouch for the purity of the newly minted coins. Thus two kinds of coins were in circulation in the market. The case remained unresolved due to his untimely demise in 1775, and the problem was inherited by successive rulers of Nepal. >By 1788 Bahadur Shah, the youngest son of Prithivi Narayan Shah, and the uncle and regent of the minor king Rana Bahadur Shah, had inherited an aggravated coinage problem. On the plea of debased coins, Tibet had started to spread rumors that it was in a position to attack Nepal; and the Nepalese merchants in Tibet were likewise harassed. Another sore point in Nepal-Tibet relationship was Nepal’s decision to provide refuge to the 10th Shamarpa Lama, Mipam Chödrup Gyamtso, and his fourteen Tibetan followers. He had fled from Tibet to Nepal on religious and political grounds. Yet another cause for conflict was the low quality of salt being provided by Tibetans to Nepal, since in those days, all the salt in Nepal came from Tibet. A Nepalese delegation was sent to Tibet to resolve these issues, but the demands made by the Nepalese were rejected by the Tibetans. The Nepalese found the quarrel over coinage a good pretext to expand their kingdom and to raid the rich monasteries in Tibet. Thus, Nepal launched multi-directional attacks on Tibet. So there was a war between Tibet and Nepal in the end of the 18th century, started over the quality of silver coins and salt.
>>11440 '96 and '05 look like toys, plastic helmets and awful dollar store patterns. Do they actually work well in China? >2015 So they're always 20-30 years behind?
>>12062 Depends. On some fronts more than 50 years behind (see aircraft engines, ships). On others they are up to date if not slightly behind by a year or so (See Rockets, APS, lasers that arent powered by nuclear). >helmets None of them work well in all of china, only the eastern half. Desert camo for Qinghai and Xinjiang, and alpine variation for Tibet (that looks more like a grey artic tbh), doesn't include urban pattern too.
>>12063 >None of them work well in all of china Obviously, it's a huge country, but even in the mountainous/arboreal locations those patterns look more like toy versions.
>>12064 It's mainly designed for use in the jungle in southern China and along the Siberian border with the Ruskies. There's been more emphasis on Tibet recently since the real fight seems to be along the Xinjiang border with the ruskies (not so much the north east... kinda like US rust belt there), and the southern border because of Vietnam.
>>12066 >the real fight seems to be along the Xinjiang border with the ruskies Are they preparing for a potential conflict with Russia, or is it because they simply feel that the area is currently undefended?
>>12067 The Chinese-Russian relations are one of necessity. The Uighur independence movement started with the Soviets supporting Eastern Turkmenistan in the 50s. So thats why (also lots of natrual gas and oil supposedly). It also can cut of the trans-siberian railroad and cut off the rest of the Russian Far east. since's its close to it and allow for the severing of Russia in two.
>>12064 > those patterns look more like toy versions They're made in China what did you expect.
>>12068 >The Chinese-Russian relations are one of necessity. I'm well aware of that, but one would think that neither of them wants to clash right now, when the world is in disarray and both of them can strengthen their position. That's why I'm asking if they are preparing for an attack in the foreseeable future, or if they are building up their military just in case. >its close to it and allow for the severing of Russia in two. Looking at a map, they only have a rather small common border, and even that is in the middle of a mountain range. Although I imagine Mongolia and Kazakhstan would get involved in a way or an other, and that widens the front quite a bit. It still looks like a plan that will go horribly wrong no matter what.
>>12072 >strengthen their position No, China would much rather let the EU be strong with a weak Russia. The seconds the US goes down China and Russia will go at it. It'll be EU/China/Pakistan vs RU/India/UK TBH a US-Russia rapprochement would be really nice for geopolitics right now but won't ever happen >mongolia They won't get involved (or rather, neither of them will let them get involved). First thing that happens in a Sino-Russian conflict is that Mongolia gets mined to hell and back by the Chinese if not straight up nuked. >Khazakhastan Yeah its China vs Khazakh and Russia.
>>12073 I know the UK has it's issues with the EU but would it really side with Russia over them?
>>12073 >implying the EU is ever in a position to do much of anything except self-harm
>>12073 >UK on Russia's side >EU on China's side I don't really see that happening. That war would be a logistical nightmare for Russia, fighting a two front war between such vast distances. They'd do whatever is necessary to keep the EU out. If Germany were smart they'd demand East Prussia back for non-aggression pact. tfw it will never happen
>>12075 >Mandatory diversity quotas >all transgender brigade >Muslim divisions >pantyfa put in auschwitz for CCP 5th column >all of Europe's problems wiped out in one war
>>12080 What if the enemy has the ingenious idea of going for the population centers since that military would be incapable of resisting?
>>12082 War crime bombing in WWII showed that doesn't have much of a demoralizing effect. In nearly all cities that were bombed war support actually went up.
>>12085 War support can't go up if there is nobody left alive to support the war.
>>12087 That's why the USAF conducted firebombing instead of "terror bombing" since the Blitz didn't work on the Brits despite the fanfare.
>>12088 I'm referring to their crowning achievement here: nukes. A nuclear strike destroys most of the infrastructure and kills most of the people in a given city, so their war-making potential is simply gone for the most part. Also, it was USAAF back then.
>>12085 >War crime bombing in WWII showed that doesn't have much of a demoralizing effect. There's some research though that indicates that it was only the disciplined or totalitarian character of the societies in the West back then which helped themto endure. Today bug people might endure it, India would crumble like a paperbag. >>12089 Who would use nukes these days while knowing the favor will be repayed in kind? That might be something a small cult like group of crazed doomer fanatics might do but even the most likely candidate a hardcore islamist turned Pakistan would still be too rational to do it.
>>12090 Bug people only endure because their government has made sure the illusion of the social contract remains in place. The moment it's gone, the bugs will turncoat.
>>12090 Property crime increased during the bombings but the government was able to portray a united response. Today the government would be too busy infighting.
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Chinese propaganda bureau releases footage of PLA Navy practicing tactical Engrish. New leather uniform Kim with ushanka.
What would happened with China if Japan doesn't attack in 1937? Would the warlord era go on into the 1940s? Would there be a civil war between the nationalists and the communists?
>>12090 >India would crumble like a paperbag. Wouldn't be so sure about that. They can get pretty patriotic.
>>12783 >Would there be a civil war between the nationalists and the communists There already was one in the middle of World War 2. The truce was a joke.
>>12785 This. American generals were constantly butthurt that Chiang spent more time fighting the commies then he did the Nips.
>>12785 But as far as I know the Japanese attack unified the warlords against them, and it also gave an opportunity for the commies to come out to the open. That's why I can imagine an alternative scenario where warlordism keeps going on much longer, and the reds use that to work in the shadows and suddenly take over a few large parts of China in a series of uprisings. Because if that's the case then Japan could have played the warlords against each other and then support the ones who are in their pocket so that they are going to be the nationalist leaders during the civil war.
>>12812 >what is the Xian incident
Harvard professor sparks outrage with claims about Japan's 'comfort women' https://archive.vn/3VMqy >A Harvard University professor has sparked outrage among fellow academics and campaigners after claiming that women forced into sexual slavery by the Japanese military had chosen to work in wartime brothels. >J Mark Ramseyer, a professor of Japanese legal studies at Harvard Law School, challenged the accepted narrative that as many as 200,000 “comfort women” – mostly Koreans, but also Chinese, south-east Asians and a small number of Japanese and Europeans – were coerced or tricked into working in military brothels between 1932 and Japan’s defeat in 1945. In an academic paper published online late last year, Ramseyer claimed the women were sex workers who had voluntarily entered into contracts – a view supported by Japanese ultra-conservatives seeking to whitewash their country’s wartime atrocities. >The article, titled Contracting for sex in the Pacific War, was due to appear in this month’s issue of the International Review of Law and Economics, but the issue has been suspended as Ramseyer’s claims come under increasing scrutiny. The journal issued an “expression of concern” and said the piece was under investigation. >In a separate article for the English-website of a rightwing Japanese newspaper, Ramseyer rejected the widely accepted account of the comfort women system as “pure fiction”, claiming that the Japanese army “did not dragoon Korean women to work in its brothels”. He added: “Expressing sympathy to elderly women who have had a rough life is fine. Paying money to an ally in order to rebuild a stable relationship is fine. But the claims about enslaved Korean comfort women are historically untrue.” >Prominent academics challenged the veracity of Ramseyer’s research, saying they had found no historical evidence of the contracts he described in his article. Harvard historians Andrew Gordon and Carter Eckert called for the original article to be retracted. “We do not see how Ramseyer can make credible claims, in extremely emphatic wording, about contracts he has not read,” they said in a statement. >The US state department described the comfort women system as an abuse of human rights, although it did not refer to Ramseyer. “As the United States has stated many times, the trafficking of women for sexual purposes by the Japanese military during World War II was an egregious violation of human rights,” a department spokesperson told South Korea’s Yonhap news agency. >Hundreds of scholars have signed letters condemning Ramseyer’s article, and last week North Korea’s state-run DPRK Today published an article calling him a “repulsive money grabber” and a “pseudo scholar”. >The issue has soured relations between Japan and South Korea since survivors first went public in the early 1990s. Only 16 women recognised by the South Korean government are alive. In late 2015, Japan and South Korea said they had “finally and irreversibly” resolved the issue when Japan agreed to contribute ¥1bn (£6.7m) to a foundation to support survivors and their families. Japan continues to insist, however, that all official compensation claims were settled when the countries normalised diplomatic ties in 1965. >In 2018, South Korea’s president, Moon Jae-in, effectively nullified the settlement, saying it did not reflect the wishes of the women. The issue flared up again in January this year, when a South Korean court ordered the Japanese government to pay damages of 100m won [£64,000] each to 12 women. Japan indicated it would ignore the “utterly unacceptable” ruling, citing the principle of sovereign immunity, which grants states immunity from the jurisdiction of foreign courts. >In response, survivors called on the South Korean government to take their case to the international court of justice. “Japan is just ignoring the ruling, while not even appealing it,” Lee Yong-soo, a 92-year-old survivor, said last month. “I am not asking for money. We have to receive complete acknowledgement and an apology from Japan.”
>>13900 I'm not sure what I hate more: the formatting of these online tabloids, or that I always fuck up when I try to tidy them up by contracting the paragraphs.
>>13901 Do the editing in an editor that you can turn on line numbers. Then you can easily detect each separate line, which you can greentext. Don't sweat it Strelok but still, it would be better if you made your own commentary too.
>>11668 >>11666 >>11751 >>11863 >>11866 >>11872 what would happen if something really really really bad happened to china. Apocalypse-tier. China neutered, industry gone, what does that mean? Who benefits, who falters? Do global supply chains still work? (not just talking 3 gorges)
>>17880 The world would hit American Great Depression levels of shit for a period of 6-8 months as the various nations rebuilt their industries and then over that period again things would slowly go back to normal except things would be a little more costly, last a little longer, and 'Made in India' would be the new 'Made in China'.
>>17880 >Do global supply chains still work? Most of the major routes like the Suez would still be used by other countries. The only question is if the supply chain becomes more homegrown or not. Personally I think a few countries see the value of making at least some portion of as many goods at home. But then you have America and others who chase the cheapest labor and will never choose home industry if it costs less elsewhere. >>17881 >Made in India Don't discount Vietnam either. They have also been vying as a spot for cheap goods; they certainly are willing to treat their people like shit to do it.
>>17880 >China neutered, industry gone, what does that mean? Who benefits, who falters? Do global supply chains still work? If anything like that happened, it wouldn't be overnight. First and foremost an immediate request (read: begging) for North Korea to normalize relations with South Korea would be required to prevent a true global world war. That aside, assuming the absolute worse case scenario of a massive war, Taiwan would claim the ports and facilities within military range, India would retake the Tibetan parts, Mongolia or Russia would take the Muslim parts, North Korea would take some ports near them (and similarly with South Korea or Japan if Russia doesn't get it first), and that would likely liberalize their economy and eventually get them to become Neo-China. The rest would probably form a handful of cultural-linguistic boundary states that would either remain separate or become a Myanmar-like/India-like country after time passes. Asian coastlines would actually be safe once more and tour cruises could pass through without being swarmed by the rapey kind of pirates. As >>17881 suggests the entire world would go through a Great Depression and suicides would skyrocket, possibly civil wars would be fought by a generation fucked over by Boomers, Corporations, Governments, Chink Flu, and the immediate global supply collapse this would bring. I estimate it could be closer to 5-10 years, but if you could survive that shit show, the emerging diversified Asian economy would bring about a new Golden Age. Or it could bring dystopia, this is clown world after all.
Any late Cold War countries in Asia that were genuinely neutral (not like Japan), could field an effective volunteer fighting force, and weren't communist?
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https://yewtu.be/watch?v=oErYYBNCHh4 This is a 6 part retelling of the Pacific war, and it goes into Japanese tactics a bit. Now, one thing I've realized before is that Japs liked bayonet charges so much because the average Japanese company had lots of machine guns and mortars compared to the average chink company, because the latter was often lucky to have anything more than one or two machine guns and enough bolt action rifles for everyone. Of course there were better equipped Chinese units, but those were the exception. It means the Japs could effectively suppress the average enemy unit and charge across an open field, because anyone who started shooting at them would face a whole lot of bullets and grenades flying at him. The average Japanese soldier was also better trained and better fed, so he had a good chance of winning in a bayonet fight. All of these together made the banzai charge an effective tactic there, even if it was somewhat costly in lives. But that wasn't a concern for them. I strongly suspect the chicoms started putting bayonets on their AKs because they were so used to melee that not having a bayonet was not an option for them. But what I really want to say is that Japs really liked infiltration and night attacks, and that is exactly what the chinks were doing during the Korean war. So I wonder, were Chinese tactics based on what they learned fighting the Japanese?
>>17948 >That were genuinely neutral Don't exist during the Cold War. Arguably Bhutan, but they were just a hedonist Buddhist sect camping out in the swamps below the Tibetan mountains. In almost every case where a "neutral" country existed, either America, Russia, or China was involved secretly if not overtly. My personal favorite is Indonesia. Originally the US was filming a fake pornography of the Communist party's leader set up to look as much like him as possible, until militants in Indonesia started launching a coup leading to the political plan being scrapped. Then, the US embassy proceeded to offer "asylum" to the commies being murdered in the streets so that they could hand over a list of names to the Indonesian military, all while claiming to be a "neutral party" in it.
I like the JGSDF wheeled tanks as QRF or expeditionary force. Now I hope some force adopts DMR's sots full power rifle cartridges for everyone. With varying degrees of optics for more specialized roles.
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>>18989 >Now I hope some force adopts DMR's sots full power rifle cartridges for everyone. What do you mean by this?
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I don't have anything to say, except that I like this thing.
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>>10850 Mongols ~ World History #17 by Crash Course https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szxPar0BcMo >>10850 KAI KF-21 Boramae - Korean Future Fighter Program: will it be good? K2 Black Panther tank looks sick.
Asian military history consists of: >Send a bunch of soldiers to a field >Everyone dies >Someone wins by consuming an entire village
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JSDF keeps training up by fighting Gojira
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Jap F-2 is just an updated F-16. lol
>>40973 I'm surprised they're already establishing a future fighter program given the K2 is one of the newest MBT's to be designed.

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