>>552 It wouldn't because Communism is atheistic by nature which means it would get rid of any religious practice.

>>557 >Communism is atheistic by nature No it isn't. While we would certainly expect spirituality to decline due to alleviating "the sigh of the oppressed creature", this by no means implies its extinction. Evidence suggests people were spiritual in primitive communism, likely some form of animism. So spirituality would remain even in communist society, partly because not even such a society can explain why there is something rather than nothing.

>>559 How can you say it isn't? Communist regimes have always been zealously atheistic and materialist - denying the unseen, claiming people control their own fate, etc - and suppressing religion and religious practice in any form except what serves the state. We can even see some of these tyrants claiming they are gods and demanding the people to worship them!

>>560 I am talking about communism as a mode of production, not Marxist-Leninist states. In the case of the USSR for example, their actions were informed by the practical need to suppress the Orthodox church given the latter's cooperation with the Tsarist regime. You are correct of course that communists are materialists first and foremost. Spirituality is not at odds with this, since it concerns itself with the immaterial, with the unseen as you say. So long as there is no "stepping on the toes" then there is no problem. >We can even see some of these tyrants claiming they are gods and demanding the people to worship them! Such as? My initial question remains unanswered. It seems to me that should communism come to pass then it necessarily means the aufhebung of zakat. What is Islam without the need for zakat?

>>561 I suppose in a hypothetical system where money doesn't exist, provisions governing money would no longer apply either, yes. >In the case of the USSR for example, their actions were informed by the practical need to suppress the Orthodox church Don't pretend it's only the church that was oppressed. The Soviets were at war with Islam. Shutting down mosques and madrasas, burning Islamic scriptures, and doing everything to break the religion and prevent it from being practiced in order to export their doctrines to Central Asia and other Muslim lands under their boot. They failed, and finally, the Mujahideen were the ones that brought the USSR to its knees. >are correct of course that communists are materialists first and foremost. Spirituality is not at odds with this, since it concerns itself with the immaterial Denying the Unseen is Kufr, and Islam is at odds with Kufr. >So long as there is no "stepping on the toes" then there is no problem. There is going to be "stepping on toes" because Islam isn't mere spirituality, it's a complete way of life for all private and public affairs. The Muslims are one religious community, we obey Allah and His Messenger, we love what Allah loves and we hate what Allah hates, and we ultimately aim to establish Allah's Law as the highest law. Communists hate this, and have always been trying to stamp out religion altogether, because they demand a godless society where only they are obeyed. That's why Islam will always be in opposition to communism, or any other secular ideology for that matter. And that's why a Muslim who practices Islam is going to be seen as an existential threat by communists: "Here's someone who doesn't idolize our state, who doesn't follow our 'revolutionary and progressive' doctrine, who is outside of our total control." >Such as? North Korea comes to mind, where bowing to statues of the dictators is mandatory, and they sing songs praising them as holy figures. Cults of personality have always been a staple of communist states.

>>562 >Don't pretend it's only the church that was oppressed. I suggest no such thing. The CPSU's atheist zeal was in many ways a hindrance to its goals. >Denying the Unseen is Kufr, and Islam is at odds with Kufr. Then you are in luck because communists concern themselves only with that which can be seen, only with the material. One merely needs to not be an obstacle to class struggle. If the CPSU attacked Muslims who were not a hindrance to class struggle then they were in error. >The Muslims are one religious community You mean like Sunni and Shia? >Communists hate this, and have always been trying to stamp out religion altogether, because they demand a godless society where only they are obeyed. Liberal nonsense. >And that's why a Muslim who practices Islam is going to be seen as an existential threat by communists Again, so long as Muslims do not impede class struggle then there is no problem. >the Kims == god-emperors meme This is simply wrong. >communist states An oxymoron.

>>559 >No it isn't. Lol what? Of course it is. It's part of the ideology, a main component. >primitive communism, likely some form of animism This is /islam/ not /animism/ and the queation was about zakat

>>563 >One merely needs to not be an obstacle to class struggle The struggle is between Faith and Unbelief, not between classes. The communists have chosen their side and we have chosen ours. >You mean like Sunni and Shia? Ahl al Sunnah are Muslims, the Shia worship graves. >Liberal nonsense I can assure you that I am not a liberal. >Again, so long as Muslims do not impede class struggle then there is no problem. Islam is the religion of bringing all people into God's faith and establishing harmony and peace between them. We're gonna impede your "class struggle". Now what would you like to discuss? Your question has been answered. Are you only here to make smart half-baked remarks now?

>>564 >Lol what? Of course it is. It's part of the ideology, a main component. All that you need to know to resolve this confusion is to know that the material and the immaterial are separate. They must by necessity be of a different nature. We could call this distinction an act of Allah. >>565 >The struggle is between Faith and Unbelief, not between classes. Belief cannot be ascertained outside the mind. If you think otherwise then you have entered the realm of neurology. It would do you good to understand the difference between base and superstructure. >Ahl al Sunnah are Muslims, the Shia worship graves. The Shia belief implies that everyone is Muslim. This is a point I have raised with Jews. >I can assure you that I am not a liberal. Yes you are. You deny class, and you deny that the goal of communists is democracy. This is a common liberal trait. Denial of class struggle is tacit support of class society. >all people into God's faith This will literally never happen. All it takes is a single nonbeliever. Islam will perish long before. So says the archeological record. >establishing harmony and peace between [people] https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1913/03a.htm I admire your spirit, and this is a point I would not mind discuss further.

>>561 Islam is about the seen and the unseen.

>>566 >that the material and the immaterial are separate They are inseparably connected. God says: اللَّهُ الَّذِي رَفَعَ السَّمَاوَاتِ بِغَيْرِ عَمَدٍ تَرَوْنَهَا ۖ ثُمَّ اسْتَوَىٰ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ ۖ وَسَخَّرَ الشَّمْسَ وَالْقَمَرَ ۖ كُلٌّ يَجْرِي لِأَجَلٍ مُّسَمًّى ۚ يُدَبِّرُ الْأَمْرَ يُفَصِّلُ الْآيَاتِ لَعَلَّكُم بِلِقَاءِ رَبِّكُمْ تُوقِنُونَ "Allah it is Who raised up the heavens without visible supports, then mounted the Throne, and compelled the sun and the moon to be of service, each runneth unto an appointed term; He ordereth the course; He detaileth the revelations, that haply ye may be certain of the meeting with your Lord." (ar-Ra'd 13:2) The Unseen is simply that which cannot be perceived by human senses. The Seen and the Unseen are inseparable; consider how the soul is connected with the body. Consider also the Salah: The connection of man with his Lord. If the Seen and the Unseen were completely separate, as you claim, then there would be no Salah, as it would be impossible for a man to connect with his Lord. No, even that which is veiled to humans affects and interacts with that which we can perceive. God Himself is in the Unseen, as are the angels, jinns, and the worlds of the afterlife, and all of these undoubtedly and profoundly affect us humans as they give meaning and purpose to life and existence itself. >Belief cannot be ascertained outside the mind Faith is manifest through practice. Establishing the religion means giving Allah His Right to be obeyed exclusively. It means establishing the Salah and giving the Zakat, enjoining the good and forbidding the evil with the hand, tongue and heart, judging between people according to Allah's revealed Law, and learning, teaching and applying knowledge of the religion. Islam is not a private matter. It does not hide itself in people's homes. It is to encompass all parts of life and govern all affairs. Did Muhammad (peace be upon him) tell his companions; "now just go back to home and keep it to yourself"?! No. They came together and built an Islamic state and society founded upon faith, and you could see this even if you couldn't see inside people's hearts. >Yes you are. I do not follow any of your secular ideologies, all of which are misguidance and a means for evil to spread. >deny that the goal of communists is democracy I don't care which non-Islamic system you want to establish. Did you think this was a point in your favour? The unfortunate fact is that you deny God's sovereignty and His right to legislate for his creation, demanding of people that they leave God's revelation and follow your man-made doctrine instead. This makes you disbelievers and tyrants. God says: وَقَاتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّىٰ لَا تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ وَيَكُونَ الدِّينُ كُلُّهُ لِلَّهِ ۚ فَإِنِ انتَهَوْا فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ بِمَا يَعْمَلُونَ بَصِيرٌ "And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do. " (al-Anfal 8:39) God says: وَمَن لَّمْ يَحْكُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ فَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ "Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are wrong-doers." (al-Ma'idah 5:45) أَفَغَيْرَ اللَّهِ أَبْتَغِي حَكَمًا وَهُوَ الَّذِي أَنزَلَ إِلَيْكُمُ الْكِتَابَ مُفَصَّلًا ۚ وَالَّذِينَ آتَيْنَاهُمُ الْكِتَابَ يَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهُ مُنَزَّلٌ مِّن رَّبِّكَ بِالْحَقِّ ۖ فَلَا تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْمُمْتَرِينَ "Shall I seek other than Allah for judge, when He it is Who hath revealed unto you (this) Scripture, fully explained? Those unto whom We gave the Scripture (aforetime) know that it is revealed from thy Lord in truth. So be not thou (O Muhammad) of the waverers." (al-An'am 6:114) إِنِ الْحُكْمُ إِلَّا لِلَّهِ "Legislation belongs to none but Allah." (Yusuf 12:40) >This will literally never happen. It already has happened. All of humanity was originally upon Islam. Kufr did not appear until after the time of Idris (peace be upon him). See >>226 . From this it becomes clear the original struggle has been and still is between good and evil, truth and untruth, faith and unbelief. Narrated Ibn 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) gave a Khutbah to the people on the day of the conquest of Makkah, and he said: "O you people! Verily Allah has removed the slogans of Jahiliyyah from you, and its reverence of its forefathers. So, now there are two types of men: A man who is righteous, has Taqwa and honorable before Allah, and a wicked man, who is miserable and insignificant to Allah. People are children of Adam and Allah created Adam from the dust. Allah said: O you people! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honorable of you with Allah is the one who has most Taqwa. Verily, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware (49:13)." (Tirmidhi 3270, Grade: Hassan)

>>570 >It already has happened. All of humanity was originally upon Islam.