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General Discussion on the next Cup Anonymous 05/05/2020 (Tue) 20:34:14 No.9
Use this thread to ask questions about the cups or tournaments. PES 2017 I reckon was the last version we used in the cup. But as I said, while PES is the go-to since we take inspiration from the 4CC, other games with customization are more than accepted as suggestions for future cups. I myself wanted to create an NBA 2K1X cup given that the modding tools for that game are quite expansive, see: https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=1CVFcSSNGGI[Embed]
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>>903 Thank you! This is a lot of work and I appreciate you for doing it.
>>903 neko.bar seems to be down
>>931 Looks like something on their end. Can't get to any of the neko sites, not just the peertube.
>>931 >>932 It's back again
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Can MMD models be used in-game?
>>963 Yes
The test stream looked fine and the shitpo- commentating was better than I expected based on the size of the audience. The wiki could use an update now that the test stream is over, the pot draw date is known and the logo for the cup has been revealed.
>>996 Updated. Also, every friendly should be up on NekoBar tomorrow, as I've been able to splice them from the stream yesterday.
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>>998 Hey, could you please upload the finals too or can someone provide links to them? That would be great! I'm refining some tactics right now, its a bit hard to do that without material to study.
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What size is best for cytu.be emotes?
>>1035 Just an anon here. Try to have an horizontal aspect ratio if possible, to eat up the least amount of chat lines. Also, the final pic gets eventually resized by the "admin", so the bigger is the original, the more details it loses.
Quick update on the video progress. I'm still waiting for the videos from the second day of matches. I've got the third day uploaded and the fourth day is ready for upload. I'll do the knockout stages next. They'll be in a temporary playlist since NekoBar is a little fucky with ordering videos in playlists. Once I get those Day 2 videos, I'll be able to put everything where it belongs. >>1028 I can start with the finals first then.
In the 2015 Cup every single match had a truck load of goals but now it's as if they're all either 1-1 or 1-0. What happened?
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Nice "Cup" you got there, faggots I bet it even breaks 100 viewers, when 2 "big" teams play chuckles in texas
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>>1097 We may not have viewers but we do have otters
>>1092 PES differs from most modern sportsball games in that the AI plays differently from year to year. Some years the AI is quite tuned for scoring, while others, they play to the true spirit of divegrass and every game is a 0-0 win for nobody. PES 17 is somewhere in the middle, but it leans a bit more to the true-to-life side. Also, the goalie are allotted more skill points in these Cups than they were in the first two, so that helps(hurts).
>>1102 invitationals are comfy. I liked /pol/league and /vr/ league myself(even leftypol participated, in the last two of the former)
>>1100 Very impottant
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>>1112 Thanks! Very appreciated.
Do player icons appear in the game plan menu, or only on the wiki roster?
>>1144 For now, only on the wiki. I'm aiming to have the game organized enough to do that in the next Cup.
>>1145 All good, that just means I don't have to crop them to 1:1
CRASHING THIS DRAW WITH NO SURVIVORS!
Question: Why are we doing penalty kicks (boring) instead of extra time (fun) for tied games?
>>1315 For group stages (this week and the next two) there are neither, draws are allowed. After that, the knockout stages can't have drawn games, there must be a winner. If the regular 90 minutes ends in a draw, extra time is played for and extra 30 in-game minutes and then if it is still a draw after that, penalty shootout is a last resort to break the tie. Penalties are the only guaranteed tie-breaker in PES and are a normal feature in cups. The only in-game alternative I can think of is setting up a golden goal rematch but that would most likely take longer to finish and be less reliable (imagine a 0-0 match being prolonged until someone scores, it could easily be another 90 minutes)
Since most games will be played at Konami Stadium and I assume the billboards are constant per stadium, can you cycle the textures around every game day?
>>1343 Billboards are not constant per stadium. They *can* be, but PES has a specific set up that I've hijacked to be used in ICUP matches. So we have the same set of billboards rotating though regardless of match/opponent.
Reminder to get hyped for /eris/ v /sp/ >/eris/ has gold and bronze on the right-side attack, along with most of the team >/sp/ has all four medals on the left-side mid and defense could SKF not bring himself to rig the all-out attack plan? >both aggressive gegenpress counter-attack
>>1419 So you're saying they're only gonna play on half of the pitch?
>>1425 Mostly, yeah. They're also both very aggressive teams. We'll have to make sure the riggers show the "Attacking Areas" summary and see how one-sided the game is.
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>even a literal discord circlejerk meme-vitational held just so that people can experiment with new teams/aesthetics gets more people than the "main" redditchan cup
How do we get a new stadium? I intend to get an existing stadium as a base and modify it with Blender (there are tutorials on implyingrigged and youtube). Can we pick any base stadium or do we get assigned a remaining one? For example, could I pick the one /otter/ is based off, and all the camera angles will be the same as well?
What's the deal with pre-match substitutions? I saw some games start with excellent-form players left on the sideline, I just assumed all non-medal players got replaced if they had a sub in better form, unless the sub strategy said otherwise.
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Hey SKF, I know it's a lot to ask given that the cup is already pretty intense as far as organizing goes... But could I trouble you to add at least one custom animation from PES 2017's library of celebrations to each player who plays as a Forward? I just think it would spruce things up, so that when a goal is scored we may get some fun animation to go along with it. If they could be randomized, all the better, to be honest.
>>1775 Animations are not something I've looked at yet in terms of modding in. If it's something as simple as a copy-paste to a folder, then fuck yes. >>1774 The way PES plays, a lesser form medal will generally always outproduce an in-form non-medal player. I'd never take off a Gold for a 77 who's in top shape. There's also a few teams who left specific instructions NOT to start certain players due to the Super Sub ability.
>>1780 I've looked slightly at it, and unless >>1775 refers to creating them from scratch, then it's just adding it to the DLC list
>>1781 I assumed they were talking about the in-built goal celebrations (can be changed in save editor or in-game). For example, Emperor Norton I does a backflip. It would take about 10-30 minutes to randomly pick them for the forwards, and it would be nice for teams to pick specific ones (like shooting gun celebration for /k/). I haven't looked at the DLC ones yet, any cool ones?
>>1780 So, if I left instructions to pre-game swap out every single player that can be exchanged for a higher form sub in the same position, would that be allowed and fair? (It's an extreme example, I wouldn't necessarily recommend doing this; it would usually result in a significant height disadvantage and mid-game sub form disadvantage if many players ended up being swapped at the start)
>>1780 Actually it's even easier than that, PES comes pre-loaded with about 120+ goal celebrations and you can pick 2 per player. Generally, if you don't pick any, then the usual animation of all the players going up to the scorer and congratulating him would play. However you can put just one of the celebratory animations and leave the other one set to default or none or whatever that version of PES names it and you could have either play when a goal is scored. Also yes apparently you can add custom animations. https://www.yew.tube/watch?v=N3G151tdkTk >>1782 Yes that's what I meant.
Requesting someone add to the wiki which version of PES was used for each cup page.
>>1783 If we keep the same system of a text doc for strategies, yes. You could list something like, "start game with the most in-form player in each position" and it could be followed by the rigger. >>1793 That's an easy add to the infobox. It'll be done before the night is up.
>>1794 Awesome, thanks for that.
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Alright with the bow officially put on the 6th Cup it's time for me to start putting attention towards the 7th Cup. There's obviously an appetite for it, what with the "G-Cup" page being up on the wiki already, but I did want to get my thoughts out there before we officially move in one direction or the other. The first question that needs to be answered is whether the next Cup we put on is going to be ICUP 7 or some different kind of Cup in the interval. Infinity Cup 7 We'll easily clear the threshold for teams this time around which means we can have a no bullshit, 8 groups of 4, 16 team Knockout Stage Cup. That being said, we'll probably overshoot the 32 team mark fairly easily, which begs the question "What do we do with the extra teams?" Depending on the final number it could be as awkward as it has been the last few Cups, possibly with teams playing in a qualifier and not even making it to the Cup proper. I assume that will piss several people off, which is not ideal in the slightest. Also this option requires the most work for everybody involved. Non-Infinity Cup I've been going back and forth on calling it a Shitpost Cup, since it very well may not be. The currently floated idea of national boards duking it out over a non-ICUP Cup is entertaining. That being said, there's been some interest in people running what are basically meme teams, squads that are centered around a fun idea (/toddcollins/) or a single topic (/jojo/ & /fast/). They'd certainly be out of place in the "G-Cup" setup, but they don't need to be written off. We could form a non-national division as part of this tournament, maybe have the winner of the shitpost side meet the winner of the national side a la the early Super Bowls. Specifics like that though will have to wait until the numbers picture is a little clearer. This option is what I'm leaning towards running, as I figure it will be more laid back, and I'll be able to take time to rejig PES a bit, make it even cleaner moving forward. Going this route also opens up some fun options. If we don't take it seriously we can set up some simple roster limits that aren't a giant time sink like they can be for the ICUP. Could even a roulette format, where I stick a bunch of options in Random dot org and the numbers pick stipulations. It means less work for the boards/managers submitting and it makes things easier for me as well. This is all open to suggestions so let me know what you guys think of the options.
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>>1886 >Infinity Cup 7 We'll easily clear the threshold for teams this time around which means we can have a no bullshit, 8 groups of 4, 16 team Knockout Stage Cup. That being said, we'll probably overshoot the 32 team mark fairly easily, which begs the question "What do we do with the extra teams?" Depending on the final number it could be as awkward as it has been the last few Cups, possibly with teams playing in a qualifier and not even making it to the Cup proper. I assume that will piss several people off, which is not ideal in the slightest. Also this option requires the most work for everybody involved. Regarding that, I may have a solution that makes everyone happy and lets people participate in at least a couple of matches before being tossed away (as opposed to playoffs and all), but it all depends on the number of participating teams. Now, we know that the only "workable" formats for Group stages are those that are divisible by 4 (so 16 teams, 32 teams, 40 teams etc.) with additional adjustments to the final standings to make sure that the Knock Out stage has a number of teams divisible by 4. With that in mind, I propose the following extra rules as far as participating teams go, with N being the number of teams: - If N can only be divided by 4 or multiples thereof, there's no problem at all and we can just play normally (i.e. 64 teams get divided into groups of 4 teams each, meaning we get 16 groups of 4 teams each and only the top 2 teams of each group go on to the knockout stage); - if N can be divided by 4 but also by 3, we'll first have two rounds of group stages followed by a knockout stage between the remaining teams (i.e. 48 teams get first divided into groups of 4 teams -> 12 groups of 4 teams, which allow 24 teams to proceed to 8 groups of 3 teams, with the final 8 teams proceeding to a knockout stage); - if N can be divided by 4 but can't be divided by 3, we'll proceed as in the Infinity Cup 6, with the first two teams of each 4-teams-group proceeding alongside a suitable number of best-third-places (i.e. 28 teams go in 7 groups of 4 teams each, with 14 teams proceeding as normal and another 2 teams being chosen as the best-third-places); -if N can't be divided by 4 but is still an even number OR N is an odd number of teams, then we'll go through the following special procedure of eliminating teams until we reach a number of teams divisible by 4: Let's say we have 9 teams: A B C D E F G H I >We randomize matchups and pitch each pair of teams: D E G H A I B C F >We divide the teams into pairs (if there's an extra one, we mark it down for the time being) D E - G H - A I - B C - F >All the pairs of teams square off in a direct elimination match (no draws allowed, we go to either extra time or benuldies), and the teams that win get immediately promoted to participate in the actual cup Winners: D G A C (4 teams) Marked: F Losers: E H I B >The Losers get randomized again for their new order, while the team that was Marked is the first that gets to play the next elimination round (also no team must be marked twice): F H - B E - I >Another elimination round goes by and we have the following teams: Winners: D G A C F E (6 teams) Marked: I Losers: H B >We proceed further down the elimination matches until we have a number of Winners teams that can be divided by 4 (8 in this case). So for example H I - B ---------- Winners: D G A C F E H (7 teams) Marked: B Losers: I --------- B I ----------- Winners: D G A C F E H I (8 teams) Losers: B (ELIMINATED) Obviously in a more realistic scenario you're going to have more than one team getting eliminated, or even having to choose among a number of Losers that would result in more teams added to the Winners than those enough to make it divisible by 4. When that happens, i.e. you need just 2 more teams but going through the process would result in 5 more winners, then you immediately eliminate all teams that just lost, take these 5 winners, add the marked team to them and proceed to go through whatever kind of tournament can eliminate them the fastest i.e. with 5+1 teams just go with two groups of three teams and pick the winning teams. ADDENDUM: when playing with groups of 3 teams, instead of following a schedule, to ensure that there's enough interest in each group, let the team that lost the first match play against the one who has yet to participate in any match, just so we don't have situations where one team wins both matches back to back so it automatically rises to the next stage.
>>1887 Actually let me perform another example of the last one. Let's say we have 57 teams participating in the tournament, but the rigger decides that they want to cull them to be less than 50: We would have 28 matches, with 28 winners, 28 losers and a team marked for the next round. We could stop there, and have a cushy tournament with 28, but let's say we proceed, changing the marked team: we would have 14 matches, with 14 winners (which, summed to the original 28, would give us 42 playing teams), 14 losers and a marked down team. Let's say that the riggers don't want to go any further and want to cull it down to 40 teams: the last 14 winners don't immediately go to join the 28 who already won, but rather square off against each other, with the first 7 winners added to the pile (28 + 7 -> 35) and the remaining 7 repeating the same procedure, so 3 more teams would win and go on and 4 would stay behind (35 + 3 = 38) and finally the last two winners go and join the pile, netting us 40 playing teams, easily manageable in 10 groups of 4 for the actual tournament. Also, we can easily pick and remove cursed teams from the tournament, like with /test/, /reddit/, /just/ etc. so this is only something that must be used when the riggers absolutely want to cull teams.
>>1888 >>1887 That last bit is complicated, but then again, these things usually are. God forbid we ever get to 60+ teams, I'm just going to throw in the towel and move to the Elite/Babby system that exists for the other Cup. The problem with hosting the ICUP this Winter isn't the bracketology though, it's ALL of the work that will be involved. >Also, we can easily pick and remove cursed teams from the tournament, like with /test/, /reddit/, /just/ etc. so this is only something that must be used when the riggers absolutely want to cull teams. I'm trying to keep those teams out of the Cup proper, which is why you saw the first two you listed in the last place / first place matches. I think instituting a completely separate Cup for those kinds of entries will be good, it lets people be a little creative without getting in the way of the board vs. board spirit of the ICUP (Though that's board(s) now considering how things have developed)
>>1886 So exactly how many active AND prospective teams do we have here, and who are they? Do we need more or less of them?
>>1890 >So exactly how many active AND prospective teams do we have here, and who are they? I'm going to assume the teams that participated in ICUP 6 will be active. That being said, here's a list of every prospective team that I found: >/argentina/ >/britfeel/ >/dup/ >/fast/ >/gamergate/ (possibly merging with /gamergatehq/) >/hyper/ >/islam/ >/jojo/ >/k/ >/pol/ >/toddcollins/ >/toy/ >/tg/

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