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Converting leftists Blackshirt 07/08/2020 (Wed) 22:39:00 ID: cff7c8 No.3059
It's no secret that eventually we will come across actual leftists with an interest in real class warfare instead of pseudo socialist radlibs with retarded notions of opposing a system that supports them wholeheartedly. It's important that we convert them and add their revolutionary spirit to the fold. Convince them of the ills of such materialist ideology and if failing that convince them of the merits of the third position and the standard of living it would bring to millions of lives. Avoid faggots like Vaush and if you were a leftist before converting posting ideas itt palatable to our unawakened comrades would be greatlty appreciated.
I think it is quite easy to redpill people on the importance of nationalism. For these types the best angle is environmental. More immigrants coming into the West means more people consuming and wasting resources on frivolous shit at the same level of the natives. Obviously immigration from this angle is undeniably a negative. Where I struggle though is how to even approach these people when it comes to racialism. The Jews have made this the cardinal sin to such an extent that even conservative types get nervous when you begin to point out how people living in different conditions for millennia might have changed in regards to intelligence and other traits. Unfortunately the greatest way to actually change minds is to have people actually dedicate time to studying these things, but honestly that's never going to happen. Normalfags don't read and I'm convinced that they hardly can. For most leftists they'll either follow the herd and become WNs if WNs ever came to power because its promoted by the establishment now or a minority be thrown in mass-grave when they refuse to reconcile themselves.
>>3063 I don't touch on racial aspects when I talk to them. It's too taboo and usually scares them away. I try to focus on tangible subjects that appeal to them and then try to work my way up to the topic of race. Ironically they're more palatable to the existence of nations and their corresponding identity but the takeaway is that everyone can be a part of the nation. Kind of like modern France in that aspect.
>>3065 I usually don't touch on racial issues that much either, at least with most interactions that I've had. You're right that for preliminary redpills it's usually detrimental. A good teacher teaches in accordance with the capacity of their audience, so it's good to start in places that win appeal and then (if it ever comes to it) to get into more controversial areas. Even if people can be won over to the existence of nations being an net-good, that's a win from the previous position if they were just purely globalist before in my eyes. I've also found it good to try to deconstruct ideas like "progress", "equality" and "human rights". Especially if they're atheists they have no real grounding for the latter two in particular except that it feels good to them. >but the takeaway is that everyone can be a part of the nation. Kind of like modern France in that aspect. The next step from here then is to open up on the etymology of the word nation in 'natio', tribe...
>>3059 Do you think board quality would improve with more lefty converts/lurkers around?
>>3185 All leftists must be killed even if they are related to you by blood.
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>>3185 It might make it slightly more entertaining, but it's doubtful whether it would improve board quality. Arguing with commies is fun, but unfortunately on /leftypol/ is almost impossible due to the Stalinesque moderation. One downside of AnonCafe (and really every possible place we could have gone) is that there's no real avenue for lefties to find us. In the past though we've had bad experiences even with Nazbol-types.
>>3185 Lel, no
>>3210 The good thing about having /leftypol/ next door back on 8chan was that every once and a while they'd screenshot some of our posts and cry about how much we hate workers or something. Good times.
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>>3059 Serious thoughts. You can only convert those who are still maleable, those who have no strong opinions >>3211 That was me, I feel so proud by the amount of buthurt I generated by just mentioning that maybe poor people are not the noble savages they would like to believe. I only saw the begining of the thread, I would have liked to see what it devolved into I also remember an autistic little fellow called Adolf Stalin, he was obviously A U T I S T I C and his posts were either unstructured rants or single sentences with no value like « I agree ». He also spoke a lot about personal matters so I know that his family did not supported him and that he was not certain what the future had for him a few months ahead. I suppose that he is now in /leftypol/ since he used to be banned from the 8chan's board and I am yet to find a poster with his exact posting pattern.
>>3215 I think Adolf Stalin hasn't managed to find us here yet. He's severely mentally ill and live in Section 8 housing with no job and is unable to drive a car at nearly forty years old. His videos are pretty lulzworthy: https://www.youtube.com/c/AdolfStalin/videos >That was me, I feel so proud by the amount of buthurt I generated by just mentioning that maybe poor people are not the noble savages they would like to believe. I have a feeling the guy you were arguing against in that thread was me, I remember arguing with someone here back in the day when I was still into Strasserist type stuff about worker stuff and minimum wage type stuff
>>3215 >>3218 >Adolf Stalin I thought he was the tripleposting retard, Khmer Rouge flag and the literal autist in the autism thread thinking autists and psychopaths are good for society. All of them were advertising their writings like he did on 8chan if I remember correctly.
>>3218 >Strasserist workers rights and means to end jewish explotation are literally and rightly core issues of fascism and Natsoc in particular
>>3222 Yes, that is the same guy. >>3224 Back late last year on Julay I wrote up a two-part rundown on Strasser's basic thinking (pic related). Looking over my screencap again, I still think that he's a decent thinker. In particular I agree with him on the importance of self-sufficiency and his suspicion of cities. Nationalism is completely incompatible with the logic of Capitalism as I see it. Where Strasser is completely cucked is when it comes to the Jewish Question, Christianity, the importance of race and on militarism. There's obviously nothing stopping one from just ignoring these parts of his original thought, though I don't know if I'd adopt his exact solutions for Germany or define myself as any sort of "Strasserist"
>>3185 That's what the original board was. Even I was making a transition into the left from my paleocon phase before I found this board. There was one board in particular that was I guess a proto-/fascist/ board that was filled with strasserists and tankies that had good discussion but it was far too slow and they all left. The board would benefit from having those lads post here.
>>3215 I remember him asking Cultured thug questions from live chat in his interview with Zoltanus, he's still a third positionist.
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>>3256 Speaking of CT's interview with Zoltanous there was some Adolf Stalin-related shitflinging in the comments that was pretty funny, we can even find him triple-posting in the comments when people bring up his past of felony domestic violence w/ two previous convictions. https://wqel.com/local/seven-sentenced-to-prison-during-tuesday-court-proceedings/
Just give them the 14 Words and 88 Precepts and let them react to them, digest them. From this, have a discussion and above all, let them talk. Don't oppress them. Just ask mild questions that will nudge them towards your viewpoint. In fact, after being ensconced in NS/FA for so long, you might have forgotten a thing or two which are not totally without merit from what composes their entire worldview, although obviously most of it is utter trash. Again, 14/88, don't waste your time. There will be plenty of future opportunities to push these neo-converts towards more content. Understand also that many of them have been literally physically afflicted, in that there is no point making them fill bad and weak just because they do not have an ubermensch /fit/ body or don't even have the genetics. Tell them they can contribute to making sure this will never happen again, that their sufferings will not be those of our children. But never derail from the goal of making them understand the Laws of Nature. One must protect life and make it beautiful. Destroy the clown world, egalitarianism and globohomo. Sanity in mind and body is something to strive for. Ask them what makes them so furious about NS posters and propaganda too. Is it normal that they get salty and start seething at the view of noble, functional families? Is it normal for girls to be look like trash and drown in vulgarity? Etc. Also, many hate authority and the military. This is fine, there are many free minds too. But they must understand that there are evil people out there who would not hesitate to destroy what you like: your life style, your environment (that's the ecology dash in the discourse), your culture and even your family. Some also think Das Kapital is a manual guide towards utopia. A few concise arguments against it are necessary. Attack (((Marx))), attack the writings, condemn the failures of communism as logical consequences of a model that is anti-natural and cannot work without an inhumane use of tyrannical power. Show how communism evolved in form and how it wrought destruction. But again, read the full content of 14/88, especially the 88 Precepts as they were made to win arguments. It is a key component of the future White religion's backbone. Anyone here who has not read the full range of 14/88 material is a LARPer.
>>5326 Good post. I think such a method would work well on leftists. Especially good too is the recommendation of the 88 Precepts. If anyone hasn't read these here, they need to, because David Lane truly understood National Socialism and the Natural Order, the latter being key to the whole worldview. PDF attached.
I would never start by trying to convert them anyway, not even if they were on the fence. I'd just build utilitarian relations with them. Compartmentalize. Have separate social circles for separate purposes. Leftists don't need to know what other circles you dwell in. Focus on specific collaborations instead. I'm perusing some leftist spaces to see where I can make inroads. Not for subversion purposes but for collaboration purposes. I'm not going to pretend that I AM a leftist but I'm not going to say that I'm not either. I'll focus on the specifics. And build up a network of direct, private contacts. Not just of leftists but in general. Imageboards and other platforms are nice public squares but email and encrypted chat are where the truly candid conversations get to take place. Jihad recruiters on Facebook know this. In that spirit, I AM building my own such network. Anyone who'd like to get in contact, let me know and I'll post info. Yes, I could be a fed. That's what OPSEC is for.
Trying to convert leftists is what led to nazbol trannies. Leftists are nothing more but cultist of liberalism and communism or both. They are massive retards who have no idea how the world works and even through conversion will still try to pose (((Stalin))) and (((Marx))) as "based" people. You could try finding a leftists who isn't a Jew and willing to completely shit on communism for NS or fascism, but it would be really difficult.
>>7206 What common goals do we even have with leftists to collaborate on?
>>7228 The only thing I can think of is removing billionaires, but that’s antisemetic and they’d take offense at that.
>>7229 And unfortunately our reasons for opposing capitalism are totally at odds too. For leftists, much of it stems from slave morality.
>>7229 >The only thing I can think of is removing billionaires, but that’s antisemetic and they’d take offense at that. No they don't. Have you never heard of their rallying cry, "Eat The Rich"? Does your idea of leftist ideologies stem from /pol/ boards? Those places are a false reality, be careful. The belief that being rich is jewish is more of a right-wing thing. The more moderate, less racist leftists see sociopathy and capitalist exploitation as the cause; if you killed every jew that won't make Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Bernard Arnault, Warren Buffet, etc. Kill Bloomberg and Bezos and they will just be replaced by more Whites and chinese, same wealth inequity problem.
>>7242 (meant Zuckerburg, Bloomberg and Soros, not Bezos)
>>7242 What the fuck are you talking about? Leftists are funded and will defend billionaires who fund them and suck them off. They ignorantly avoid calling out the actual problem wrong with our economy and system and that is that All billionaires who are abusive are all Zionist, have Jewish connections or are just Jewish. Leftists who cry "eat the rich" are loved and openly work with the rich.
>>7242 Leftists are puppets of the rich, hence why every mega-corporation jumps on the bandwagon with each and every new social issue that appears. They're clearly not a threat to the system. They are cheered on by them, funded by them and promoted by them in all of their media and from the halls of power. They are preaching the safest, most kosher ideas possible. >Does your idea of leftist ideologies stem from /pol/ boards? Those places are a false reality, be careful. It doesn't take browsing /pol/ to see that leftists are in league with the global elite. They think they are rebelling against society, but they are really an instrument for advancing the globalist cause. Useful idiots. Also we should kill Jews and capitalists like Bezos. It is certainly not an either/or scenario.
>>7248 >Also we should kill Jews and capitalists like Bezos Put that argument back into context, and it shows that Anon is full of shit when he says killing billionaires is seen as anti-semitic. Leftists may not agree on 'kill jews because they are jews' but they'll certainly agree on 'kill billionaires because they are billionaires', jewish doesn't change anything. And don't get them started on Fuck Israel. >hence why every mega-corporation jumps on the bandwagon with each and every new social issue that appears Almost everyone mid-to-far left DESPISES rainbow capitalism (I haven't talked politics with enough centers to know thier views). They know it's a cheap marketing pander that doesn't change anything and only serves to deflect. You think if Gates started saying "It's ok to be White", then the right anti-capitalists would ally with him? Of fucking course not. Won't stop his PR reps buying bots and news articles to praise it as a success. Communists+socialists and mega-corporations are as likely to get along as communists and Nazis. >>7245 >All billionaires who are abusive are all Zionist, have Jewish connections or are just Jewish. You're retarded. The issue is jewish capitalism rewarding sociopaths and nepotists, which occur in all races. Kill all the jews and the same thing will happen. Billionaires are inherently abusive. That's the only way to make that much money without inheriting it.
>>7250 >that Anon is full of shit when he says killing billionaires is seen as anti-semitic. It's essentially anti-Semitic due to the wealth concentration in this country disproportionately falling into the hands of ethnic Jews. As of a few years ago at least, despite being less than 2% of the population, 40% of America's top ten richest were...you guessed it, Jewish! >Almost everyone mid-to-far left DESPISES rainbow capitalism (I haven't talked politics with enough centers to know thier views). Everyone knows that "rainbow capitalism" is a gimmick to get customers. Even despite this, they actually support what they are shilling for. Both leftists and mega-corporations are globalists, both shill for equality, both shill against Whites, for homos and other sex deviants, the list goes on. >jewish doesn't change anything. Lol
>>7250 >You're retarded. The issue is jewish capitalism rewarding sociopaths and nepotists, which occur in all races. Kill all the jews and the same thing will happen. Billionaires are inherently abusive. That's the only way to make that much money without inheriting it. No you're retarded and it's quite clear you're a commie or a nazbol faggot, because even White billionaires like Henry Ford who hated Jews was someone who had benefited and helped the working class American. White capitalists have done a better job of helping the average worker than kikes. I still don't like capitalism, but the reason why it's been so shitty is because of the kikes who exploit and without it the kikes still have found ways to take over governments aka the Soviet Union, China, etc.
To say it's just billionaire is dumb, because Billionaires don't just magically become evil and most billionaires today and in the past have always had connections with Zionist groups such as freemasons, etc, etc. Your talking points is faggotry and has no valid truth to it at all.
>>7255 Just like you, I am no friend to capitalism, but like Hitler I believe that we must first "nationalize the people" in the hearts and minds rather than just nationalize property across the board.
>>7250 Communism,capitalism and billionaires have been working with each since WWI. Leftists are fake and stupid they don't really hate capitalism because true anti-capitalism is not hating it because muh class inequality, but because it's too materialistic. Commies still buy product and shill HBO whenever they include gay Marxists in their shows. Even if you get rid of rich billionaires you still have the threat of semites which is the thing that most billionaires in the world are and look up to. Left wingers even when they are against billionaires are still anti-White, anti-nature, anti-religious, materialistic, and degenerate, so they would only end up becoming our enemy in the end. Why should I put all my effort and focus on billionaires when an enemy known as the Jews are the ones who occupy our system in the first place? You sound like a nazbol or leftoid /pol/ retard who thinks that (((Marx))) was right about the current state of the world.
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https://twitter.com/Geocon19/status/1301152328972668928 >So, you are right in that "capitalism" "distorts" Leftist theory. But given how much of the modern Left was created by these sorts of archcapitalists you hate so much, I'd say that's a pretty dangerous line of thought to go down.
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Big Business has been backing leftist revolutions from the very beginning. Jacob Schiff is one of the big names here. He was spreading anti-Tsarist propaganda among the Russians POWs in Japan as early as 1905. /leftypol/ likes to act like the coming of the Bolsheviks to power had Big Business shitting its pants, but in reality was quite the opposite. Resources were being opened up for the first time, it was even reported in 1917 in the New York Times that while some were a little on edge about the situation in Russia, "this news was by no means unwelcome in more important banking circles". Capitalism and Communism are two sides of the same coin https://www.counter-currents.com/2013/10/wall-street-and-the-march-1917-russian-revolution/ >>7260 >You sound like a nazbol or leftoid /pol/ retard who thinks that (((Marx))) was right about the current state of the world. Keith Woods then?
>>7279 Keith Woods is a kike, I don't care if he is genetically or not, but sounds exactly like a jew. I wouldn't be surprise if he found his way on to here just to shill his retarded talking points.
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>>7282 Even if he isn't genetically Jewish, he shills for Marxism and Duginism, so he might as well be a Jew.
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>>7285 >>7282 Kike Woods also claims that Cultural Marxism doesn't exist.
>>7286 >Ethno-nationalism is just another form of liberalism But every nation for every race and crying about muh paki niggers isn't? He is mentally impaired?
>>7287 He'll be an open Marxist within a year or two, mark my words. Some of the other figures who laud them are suspect in and of themselves, just see Cultured Thug. Cultured Thug for one is not fully White, and two, he seems to entertain the delusion that America can become some sort of multicultural "Roman Empire". He has gone soft and spends his time praising non-White dictators.
>>7287 >every nation for every race How is that liberalism?
>>7296 Liberal or not, it’s cucked. I have a feeling that most White Nationalists only pay lip-service to universalizing nationalism for optics reasons. Any other reason would not make sense, because the claim that that every ethnic group or race should have a state of its own is just moralfagging plain and simple. The Laws of Nature dictate that the strongest group prevails. No one has a right to existence or a right to a nation-state of their own. Nature tramples over rhetoric of this variety each and every time. The strong prevail, the weak are destroyed or enslaved. This is what constitutes natural justice. Everyone adheres to this view deep down at an instinctual level if they have not been thoroughly denatured. Any healthy individual or group would tread upon others to secure the existence of their people and a future for their children.
>>7296 It's liberal because it means that Whites shouldn't naturally rule over other races and become the dominant animal. but instead seek to watch over other races and make sure their shitholes aren't being occupied by races. TLDR its just another brand of progressive humanism.
>>7296 Here is a better question, how is Ethnopluralism even fascist? Fascism is about the natural order and its laws, just because a bunch of neo-nazis and certain fascists support doesn't mean its a fascist itself.
>>7301 >>7303 ethnoglobe is retarded cmv
>>7371 Ethnopluralism is actually retarded and only makes White cuckold and weak.
>>7374 In what ways?
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>>7371 Neither of those posts necessarily imply ethnoglobe. However, ethnoglobe is by no means a retarded or irrational view. It's no mistake, I think, that ethnoglobism has taken root here lately, or that this idea is spreading on places like Neinchan as well.
>>7377 I agree that an ethnoglobe isn't irrational, I simply don't see it as being feasible. What irritates me is the faggots who come in here and say "X is the only solution" or "Y is the best solution", without giving any sort of idea as to how this could be implemented, while cringy shit about "HURR DURR DA NUTSIES WILL CONGER DA EARTH ITS DA LAWS OF MUH NATURE HEEL HINKTLER"
>>7382 And to add I believe that most of the non-White populations would decrease naturally if Whites were end all foreign aid
>>7382 Unfortunately for every one post like the two screencaps I posted in my previous post there are a dozen LARPy ones that don't have any of the sophistication or arguments behind them. Once one begins to think of ethnoglobe more as racialization of Linkola's ideology + Spengler's discussion of the immanent decline of White civilization in 'Man and Technics' (this is where the talk about technology being disseminated comes from mainly), it will seem a lot less out there in some ways. >>7383 This is true to an extent, especially for Africa.
>>7382 >"HURR DURR DA NUTSIES WILL CONGER DA EARTH ITS DA LAWS OF MUH NATURE HEEL HINKTLER" Holy autism are you really this ass mad mutt because we don't see that mixed niggers like you don't deserve a nation?
>>7376 >providing for others outside my volk with no regard to blood doesn't make me a cuck
>>7392 >adhom projecting much ;>) >>7388 heiled Well thank you for shedding light on this the concept seemed ridiculous to me, but those screencaps were very helpful, my view has been changed >>7397 thats not ethnopluarism, thats White mans' burden, and I never said we should help non-Whites anyway
>>7399 Ethnopluralism only works if you have all other races spend their time trying to establish a nation for ever race which is retarded. White mans' burden is not only real, but I've seen cucks use it as the "White man needs to make up for their conquests by helping creating multi states." Fighting and dying for Ethnoglobe is better than fighting for a something that is completely fucking retarded and doesn't work in any way or form.
>>7399 Also you really shouldn't cry about muh adhom when you're strawmanning and didn't understood what other anons just said like you did with >>7382
>>7402 Ethnopluarism simply says "a psace for every race" or some gay shit like that, which means that live in their own territory whether they create a nation or not and are left to their own devices, meaning ethnoglobe will occur naturally >>7404 Yes it was rash of me to cry adhom when I was strawmaning, my point is that the arguments that they have made are not realistic
>>7402 >Ethnopluarism simply says "a psace for every race" or some gay shit like that Yeah I obviously know what it means and my point here is that it cannot work due to the differences and stubborniness races have against each other along with the fact it's just pointless to impose on the world, because it's almost impossible to not have other races and nations to have go at war with each other. >meaning ethnoglobe will occur naturally Disagree, because while certain niggers will have several failed states without aid coming from the West ,other races and the smartest niggers of Africa and the East Asians will be smart enough continue to upkeep their states as long as they can and also mass populate and industrialize across their respective nations. The reason why anons want Ethnoglobe in the first place is because of the fact that many niggers, spics, chinks, etc, etc have all been doing nothing but mass populating and polluting the Earth and harming nature herself and the fact that many races becoming anti-White for petty or no reason at all.
>>7416 spics and niggers would either be fucked or unproductive without White aid as for chinks if you took away communism regional nationalism would sprout and that would be the end of chinkdom, anyway I'm much concerned with saving our own nations than taking over the world at the moment
>>7418 >spics and niggers would either be fucked or unproductive without White aid They would be fucked, but not in the good way, but rather just creating more filth and probably making things even worse with mass migrations and ruining the environment. > if you took away communism regional nationalism would sprout and that would be the end of chinkdom For the Chinks in Chinkland this is probably true, but it's not the case for places like Japan. >, anyway I'm much concerned with saving our own nations than taking over the world at the moment No one here is saying that we shouldn't focus on creating a nation for us first, but rather this will become one of the future goals we have in store for the future once we have successfully created a nation that strengthen our race. The whole conquering the world thing comes latter rather than sooner.
>>7420 >They would be fucked, but not in the good way, but rather just creating more filth and probably making things even worse with mass migrations and ruining the environment agreed although higher caste indians are on the same level as Whites, I think it would be interesting to see if they start a eugenics program of sorts >For the Chinks in Chinkland this is probably true, but it's not the case for places like Japan japanese would rather keep to themselves and draw cartoons they aren't even close to a threat >No one here is saying that we shouldn't focus on creating a nation for us first, but rather this will become one of the future goals we have in store for the future once we have successfully created a nation that strengthen our race. The whole conquering the world thing comes latter rather than sooner. it should be considered yes, but for now I'm of the opinion that europe, america, and the anglosphere is enough
>>7422 >japanese would rather keep to themselves and draw cartoons they aren't even close to a threat They're an impotent puppet land.
>>7416 Ethnoglobe *was* basically inevitable until ~200 to 175 years ago. Already had Whites supplanted hundreds of Indian cultures and geoups through conquest and through natural selection as gorillions of Indian savages succumbed to diseases and superior technological might. In a few centuries, North America became de facto White land. It’s hard to even imagine that the area I live in today was once crawling with featherniggers. Similar things happened in Australia with the Abos. Respected biologists of the late 19th century were still predicting the coming extinction of (most of) the non-White races. Take Ernst Haeckel for example – an extremely influential evolutionist, eugenicist and Social Darwinist. In his book “The History of Creation”, written in the 1870s, he wrote the following: >While European tribes spread over the whole globe, other tribes or species of men every year draw nearer to their complete extinction. This is the case especially with the redskins of America, and with the copper-coloured natives of Australia. Even if these races were to propagate more abundantly than the White Europeans, yet they would sooner or later succumb to the latter in the struggle for life. And he’s not wrong, what changed was total Jewish control, the dissemination of White technology and the destructive idea of the White Man’s Burden.
>>7434 >featherniggers Check your anthropology dude. It's feathergooks.
>>7397 Not exterminating all other races, especially that do not objectively represent a problem, does not mean you have to help them. Your logic sucks.
>>7301 >MiR Half the book is really cringe worthy material tbh, and that's coming from someone who doesn't see in Nature where it's written that we should give a shit about other races' well being.
>>7288 >CT So worse than Sargon. Unsurprisedeon.
>>7279 >Capitalism and Communism are two sides of the same shekel Corrected.
>>7250 Leftists are egalitarians and cannot cope with biological determinisms and dharma. They're lost, only useful as working hands but oblivious to blood and faith. They're just jealous materialists who want to have a piece of the cake too and be happy like well fed pigs that feel useful and full.
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>>7522 To be quite honest, I'm not really a fan of the book's message either. To individualistic for me, not to mention that superior numbers often constitute superior might, and would therefore under that type of thinking constitute right. I obviously do adhere to this type of thinking to an extent, but more in a collectivistic sort of way, and with reference to the Laws of Nature. I just kind of like the picture. >>7525 Here's the proof that he's not fully White too, go to 39 minutes in this video and listen a bit: https://archive.org/details/CulturedThugKnowAMansLibraryKnowTheManReUpload He's of Karakalpak ancestry, a Turkic tribe. Funnily enough this picture that I found of some on Wikipedia fits the CT phenotype to an uncanny degree
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>>7288 This thread went to shit immediately after getting revitalized. >CT bad cause he not 100% Bavarian phenotype like me Just more empty platitudes from /pol/ refugees that would reject even the most loyal of comrades on the basis of 20% admixture. Also leftists actually have a good critique on capitalism and citing Ford as the extremely rare gentile billionaire outlier doesn't convince anyone with two braincells to rub together that this system isn't corrupt from it's very inception and we should be done with it. Many leftists aren't going to come to fascism, especially the "leftists" of today. It's still fucking retarded to reject the few that do come over on the basis of being stuck somewhat in material leftist views, the whole point is you converting them.
>>7723 20% admixture is a lot and shouldn’t be downplayed. The younger two boys in this pic are quadroons and you can still obviously tell that they are not fully White. Granted, CT is part Turk, not nigger, but it shows still. This is the least of his issues, but I don’t want to derail the thread any further.
>>7724 Couldn't really care even if he was part nig, the more people that think as fascists do the less problems we have to worry about, that includes even non-Whites. We don't have to worry about nigs trying to kill Whites or breed with us if our worldview was the norm instead of liberal capitalism. Besides CT has kids that are Whiter than him so I would think he has an interest in keeping Whites on top and it shows in that he still wants America to be White dominated even with the different ethnicites in place.
>>7723 is dad kapital the one that has marx's critiques of capitalism
>>7736 I only read parts of it but it looks like it, although he's not the only one to give a critique on it. He goes full retard with material dialectics and anarkiddies prop him up for this idea that he essentially corrupted from Hegel. >>7228 Freeing workers from the stranglehold the society keeps on them that capitalists support, fewer work hours, social programs for workers (although many leftists want useless shit), and depending on the leftist a strong state. The big thing that keeps them at an arms length from us is class collaboration but there were many 3P movements that didn't have that, importance on race which yet again not all 3P movements had that, and a spiritual base rather than a material one which is probably the biggest crux between us and them since all our movements had that but none of theirs.
>>7723 >Leftism have good critique on capitalism Leftists critique on capitalism are usually that it's not materialistic enough and doesn't allow them to be lazy cucks who doesn't want to jack shit all day. Leftists criticize capitalism for all the wrong reasons.
>>7782 >Leftists criticize capitalism for all the wrong reasons. This. Their critique is often based off of "exploitation", "inequality" and "unjust hierarchies". They don't care about race, nationalism, the destruction of tradition, etc.
>>7784 Not only that their solutions for countering it is nothing, but reinforcements of capitalism with the belief that the state will make everything better. All Communists country have openly used capitalism while acting as anti capitalistic.
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>>7787 I have often said that communism is merely industrialism with a coat of red paint. Ideas such as the collective ownership of the means of production are a fiction. They don't own anything, they are in the same relationship to the machine or to a boss as they are under capitalism. I think this is what you are referring to when you say that "All Communists country have openly used capitalism while acting as anti capitalistic." The only real difference is that the profit is ate up by the state and that workers might have some more services available to them such as healthcare, but even this has been adopted by most capitalist countries.
>>7723 >Just more empty platitudes from /pol/ refugees that would reject even the most loyal of comrades on the basis of 20% admixture. 1/5th is quite big already. If spread to a whole people, it would be critical. The art of proportions is to define when and how too much is too much, both in terms of ratios within the individual and in the equally relevant numbering of such members within a group which aims at homogenizing its biological roots. There is an obvious need for racial preservation but it should not stand against relevant alliances. If mixing there could be, it should always be outwards, with excess White blood altering the non-White elements at the periphery of the White world, so that non-White elements would not be allowed to get into the center of the community.
>>7782 Pls clarify.
>>7829 Relevant alliances with who to be exact?
>>7831 Marx and the other communist pigs sought the desire for power, plebbit science and hedonism of utopia, because they despised their current lifestyles and living of heritage, ethics, and tradition because they thought it was abusive.
>>7723 >Also leftists actually have a good critique on capitalism Give an example. Most leftist thought is literally Judaism (more specifically the Messianic Age) having been clothed in the language of the Enlightenment
>real class warfare Real class warfare doesn't exist. If society were to face real civil unrest, all the classes would dissolve into a malaise as the economy erupts and mass looting would be everywhere. Even the richest man wouldn't have power. Neither would the poorest man either. All the power would essentially fall on the state, with it's superior military and communication. And once order through martial law happens then class would only be dictated by how much military and political power you have, which isn't unlike what the Soviet Union was. Most leftists are too busy consooming nintendy switch and coca cola to be actually fighting capitalism. And Antifa is controlled op funded by rich (((oligarchs))) burning down small businesses, so that amazion can build new warehouses right over the rubble. So safe to say consumerist capitalism isn't going away anytime soon.
>>7925 >hedonistic That word keeps being thrown around. What exactly is hedonistic? Must everyone stop being hedonistic because it's evil? I mean I play vidya. I believe that as long as you have a serious life, people need some rest so they just relax for a while. Unless I'm reading you wrongly?
>>7928 What is Enlightenment to be exact? Is it all about being happy since it's "enlightening"?
>>7959 The Enlightenment is a collection of ideas worships reason above all else, is based around progress, freedom, social contract theories, etc. It was also what started to undermine religion in general, because reason was applied to religion as well by these people, resulting in Deism, which quickly morphed into Skepticism, Materialism and Atheism. Almost all liberal today pozz results has its roots in the Enlightenment. >>7958 >What exactly is hedonistic? In an ethical sense it refers to the claim that the only true good is pleasure, and what is bad is painful / dis-pleasurable. In a broader sense as it is more often used here, it is living a shallow life merely pursuing bodily pleasures with no higher purpose or goals, such as most of humanity lives today.
>>7961 What's wrong with reason? Why should religion > reason?
>>7967 Your mistake is thinking that reason and religion are necessarily incompatible things. Many people here speak of Nature in religious-like terms, and many of them use the power of their intellect to induce and deduce various Laws of Nature, and indeed the intellect is the faculty of knowing specific – on Earth at least – to humans in greater or lesser degrees depending on intelligence, race, sex, etc. Romanticism was a reaction against the Enlightenment, and it is what spawned new interest in folk culture, national and ethnic origins, paganism, admiration of the sublime and beauty of Nature, and man’s connection with it. Out of this was born the Völkisch movement, much of which the strict rationalist would call “irrational”. In fact if you even look up “fascism irrational” you’ll see dozens of articles and sites attacking Fascism and National Socialism as “irrational”, rejecting Enlightenment ideals and anti-intellectual — and all of this is true! — to an extent. We cannot be strict rationalists, as I assume that many of us do not wholly condemn the irrational, i.e. instincts, feelings. While I have rational grounds for wanting to preserve our people, I have irrational desires to do so as well, based merely on instincts and emotional reasons. And I see nothing wrong with this in the slightest. I value my own subjective desire for the White race to survive. Anti-intellectualism is another thing which Fascism undoubtedly is — Giovanni Gentile comes right out and says it. This doesn’t mean what lefties say it does, see the infograph attached to my post.
>>7972 >While I have rational grounds for wanting to preserve our people, I have irrational desires to do so as well, based merely on instincts and emotional reasons That's understandable. Peoples are closer with their own kinds. For me, when I mean irrational I mean that we may have instincts of feelings that may make us become worse. Like racemixing and what not. I have that situation for me. For example, I find women onf my own race not that good looking but i naturally find better looking women in the upper races. How does one suppress this sinking feeling? Do I believe in a religion for this (going back to point)?
>>7973 >For example, I find women onf my own race not that good looking but i naturally find better looking women in the upper races. How does one suppress this sinking feeling? Whites are universally more desirable on average, but to use some of that reason in our heads, it is clear that race-mixing brings greater harm than good for a variety of reasons, regardless of the races involved. Just peruse this pastebin: https://pastebin.com/tGMEhbhf Rootless mutts also have many issues in life due to who they are, and anyone who produces them is unwittingly contributing to a homogenized judaized world. >How does one suppress this sinking feeling? For me, reading the facts alone and seeing the results of such pairings is enough to turn me off of stuff like that by and large. Concerning religion, unless you were to become like a monk or something I doubt any of the mainstream ones would help you do to their typically universe natures and nonsense such as spiritual equality.
The thing leftists fear the most is the loss of their perceived liberty. They fear authority of the strongest form. They reject the interdiction on any form of speech. We need to work hard on this and decide how much authority, order and violence is necessary.
>>7891 The less primitive and less degenerate people. Without much surprise, we can already think of the Japanese. Smaller Shia groups in the Middle East can be worked with. Even mixed countries like Lebanon and Syria are potentially acceptable as allies in order to pacify their neighboring areas. Not Israel though. Jews must be defeated forever. This, however, must only be done as long as Whites assert their power. Our actions and might must command respect. Order will follow.
>>7961 >The Enlightenment is a collection of ideas worships reason above all else, is based around progress, freedom, social contract theories, etc. It was also what started to undermine religion in general, because reason was applied to religion as well by these people, resulting in Deism, which quickly morphed into Skepticism, Materialism and Atheism. Almost all liberal today pozz results has its roots in the Enlightenment. Deism does not lead to skepticism. It leads to a greater understanding of spirituality. It brings us closer to the Laws of Nature. Deism is radically at odds with Abrahamic cults and other belief system that shun the world, entirely missing the point of its existence. The world might have problems on many planes, but its very essence is not flawed. This said, if it has been created for higher life forms to exist and engage in activities of the richest kind, thus paving the way to beings such as enlightened humans, then it is possible, no matter how insane it sounds, that the planet could be purged violently because degeneracy would have reached levels beyond any salvation. There will be a great war anyway, because humans have become too many and too degenerate.
>>8031 I can see how Deism led to stuff like atheism. As I understand Deism, God didn't engage with the material world. He set it in motion and then let it run according to its own naturalistic / mechanistic laws afterwards. It's not hard to take this basic position and then subtract God entirely from the equation and just to say that somehow these laws just operate on their own accord and no God is necessarily needed. What I think is superior is pantheism. Deism still implies a sort of "otherness" or separation from the world, and pantheism of course, an identity of world and God in one sense or another. This, in my mind, accounts for the appearance of design in the world, and does away with the Abrahamic-esque creator who is, like the Jewish one, wholly separate from creation and utterly useless afterwards like a man who winds up a watch and leaves it running. You're definitely right though that a lot of what became associated with the basic idea of Deism is not essential to the concept, such as many of the Enlightenment ideas that often came attached to it.
>>8046 >the Abrahamic-esque creator who is, like the Jewish one, wholly separate from creation and utterly useless afterwards like a man who winds up a watch and leaves it running. Except Abrahamic theology isn't deistic. Every atom is controlled directly by God. Everything that happens in nature only happens because God commands it.
>>8049 That's why I said 'Abrahamic-esque', and only in the sense of its creation and being wholly separate from it. From how I understand it, the Abrahamic God is perfect in himself even without the creation, it's not necessary to his existence, it's entirely contingent upon him. The deistic, as I understand it at least, is similar, although it is more mechanistic.
>>8046 >I can see how Deism led to stuff like atheism. As I understand Deism, God didn't engage with the material world. He set it in motion and then let it run according to its own naturalistic / mechanistic laws afterwards. It's not hard to take this basic position and then subtract God entirely from the equation and just to say that somehow these laws just operate on their own accord and no God is necessarily needed. There is a risk that with time and ill intent, some definitions of Deism might have been slightly tweaked or even revised. This happened for dictionaries. Pick a classical one from before 1903-1905 and check the definition for any word which we know should have a heavy racial foundation but is devoid of in our modern version of it (like "folklore"). The same is done by those who want to enforce the Abrahamic "understanding" of the universe. Nevertheless, any observation is of limited value if it's not put into practice. I like those argue that true spirituality is not faith but knowledge through application and practice, thus the uncovering ("revelation at a personal level") of very real yet invisible truths. Sound is invisible and yet true. It's just that some elements are less obvious. Gravity too. Thoughts and memories too. But Deism does not separate the Maker from the Made AFAIK. It certainly paves the way to Pantheism or even Panentheism, the latter being perhaps even superior for including the infinite multiverse theory. Besides, isn't it equally easy, then, to fall into atheism when starting from a premise where the world is not divine and merely a place for God to intervene in, and then to claim that because of a lack of such godly evidence, all there is is this non-god, non-divine reality?
>>8211 >some definitions of Deism might have been slightly tweaked or even revised. This happened for dictionaries. Pick a classical one from before 1903-1905 and check the definition for any word which we know should have a heavy racial foundation but is devoid of in our modern version of it (like "folklore") I had not considered this, but it is very possible. We have seen in the past few years alone how the dictionaries all capitulate to the changing leftist discourse in order to redefine things to their benefit and therefore control the people, it would not surprise me in the slightest if this has been done gradually over time with other things. I will have to redpill myself on this sometime in the near future and dig up a few old dictionaries from a century or so ago and find out. >But Deism does not separate the Maker from the Made AFAIK This is at least the understanding that I have gotten from reading various short things on them (but not by them, admittedly). Here is one example: >Deism was represented as the view of those who reduced the role of God to a mere act of creation in accordance with rational laws discoverable by man and held that, after the original act, God virtually withdrew and refrained from interfering in the processes of nature and the ways of man https://www.britannica.com/topic/Deism I know that Britannica is probably suspect to an extent as well, but this is in line with what I have read elsewhere on them. Basically God created the universe, set it in motion and them left it run on its own accord according to naturalistic principles. Maybe I have read into it too far through positing a sort of radical separation between Creator and creation, but it certainly sounds like that, according to this view point, the universe was created and then left running like a wind-up watch or something. I agree with you though that it certainly paves the way towards something like pantheism or panentheism, I see myself as closer to the former personally. > I like those argue that true spirituality is not faith but knowledge through application and practice, thus the uncovering ("revelation at a personal level") of very real yet invisible truths. I agree. Through use of reason we can uncover the Laws of Nature and apply to them our lives and societies. This is what National Socialism, more or less, was founded on as I see it.
You can't convert leftists, these morons will still uphold their communists and liberal stance on things while trying to be "pro-White". I've seen an idiot claim that Marxism-leninism was pro White, anti semetic, masculine, etc, etc. Despite the fact that the Marxist leninist were clear cut and dry that racism was fascist and evil.
>>8213 >This is at least the understanding that I have gotten from reading various short things on them (but not by them, admittedly). Here is one example: >Deism was represented as the view of those who reduced the role of God to a mere act of creation in accordance with rational laws discoverable by man and held that, after the original act, God virtually withdrew and refrained from interfering in the processes of nature and the ways of man >https://www.britannica.com/topic/Deism If God can virtually withdraw from his creation and can chose to interfere, then both are clearly separate and we're dealing with theism here, and thus the only difference remains in the interventionism. It's mad because if the creation is not in God, and since only God is divine (by sheer and obvious definition), then anything outside of God is non divine, yet works only because, in the case of the creation, it is organized and then moved according to Laws that are finding their origin in God, but the whole matter, radiations, etc., all of this is not divine. This is what this definition provides. To the opposition formulated earlier on, the lack of interventionism can be explained not by a withdrawal (which would be impossibe with pantheism) but by the universe being God (God changed so as to become something else, where the universe is God or perhaps an attribute of God), so God does not intervene of Himself, with intervention here understood in the classical theistic way as a break from inaction to action into something, a change, perhaps even somehow irregular. But it is getting me slightly annoyed. I now have to look into 19th century encyclopedias to know how much of this is correct, taking into account that back then Christianity was a greater influence on writings too, which is not going to make the research easier at all, especially if one begins to combine the value of deism with the action of several Gods. This is beyond the topic of this thread but it's worthy of attention nonetheless!
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>>8455 I'm gonna be dumping a handful of old encyclopedia definitions of deism that I took the time to dig up. The first one is from a 1901 dictionary and encyclopedia, "International Dictionary and Encyclopedia". Obviously read it yourself, but the gist of this one's attempted definition is one who believes in God but denies the necessity or existence of revelation and that nature is a sufficient guide. I like that definition honestly. I could probably be lumped under that definition honestly. https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/100156061 I'll post a few more.
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This is from an 1870 encyclopedia, again stresses the belief in God and lack of revelation https://archive.org/details/zellspopularency01colauoft
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Last one I'll do for now. This one is particularly interesting. The writer of the entry says Theism and Deism ought to be synonyms but that Deism has become associated with certain English freethinkers such as Locke who didn't care for religious revelation and instead relied on knowledge and reason. I think all of these that I've posted are pretty spot on. https://archive.org/details/globeencyclopaed02ross I do want to dig up something on race real quick just for the lulz so I might do that real quick
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Back when we could admit the obvious. It's honestly hilarious how spot on they are about niggers today writing over 120 some years ago. They even pointed out that they are loud and like noisy music. Sage for extreme off-topic and multiposting.
>>8465 Niggers used to sing and do soft music and now they're getting mainstream attention because "fuck Whitey, i want the bling bling"
>>8465 it's almost like different races/ethnic groups have longstanding inherent differences from each other. no amount of cultural marxism or diversity gospel can alter reality, try as it might.
>>8465 Holy fuck. That is spot on.
>>8465 >American Indians >Malays What was he saying about Malays and American Indians?
The pursuit is not exactly fruitless, is just that the results will be underwhelming. As I said, men cannot be molded back once their identities have settled. When that happens—if ever—we cannot say, some retain the personality they developed when they were 13, some keep their minds unbound. The first group are slaves, they will forever be trapped in their mindset, no matter where they find themselves in. Leftism is based off this way of thinking from those who are marginalized (and ruthless capitalism is from the master's view), so, it is only natural that all leftists who are deep into the ideology are complete slaves. Even if we eliminate all marxist ideas and rationalizations, we will still get a defective human, fill his head with right-wing ideas and you will get an angry failure who now blames jews and women for all his problems, instead of wasting his time in discussions about unions and intersectionality, he would be talking about circumcision or how a Hollywood movie is literally White genocide. Fascism is abstract, unbound, and esoteric; it will never be understood my these kinds of people, now should be insult its name my pretending it to be possible. And while unrelated, I want to add; this does not only apply to leftists, manny so-called « third positionists » also suffer from this. When using a spectrum to gauge someone's ideology you may have imagined that not having strong opinions about anything will put you on the same category as having strong opinions which are all over the place. This will risks categorizing Fascist men alongside slaves of fringe ideologies, be aware of the angry sheep in wolf's clothing. The only thing I can see some future with is to use these converts as golems, they are already empty shells, no matter what ideology they use to paint their excuses. But having those people stay on the left and let the degenerate them from within is also an option, we would have to consider whether their long-therm corrosion of the left would give us a bigger advantage than to use them as golems. >tl;dr: Instead of trying to convert them, we should be taking advantage of them
>>8973 The songs that Malays tend to sing and play music to tend to be sad. He was right about that
I think a good number of leftists will never be able to more close enough to our position, but they can be nudged very far to the right nonetheless as many of them operate with a good heart but little knowledge of facts and natural laws. They're naive softies and have very warped notions of justice. They also tend to be rapidly revolted by any authoritarian system unless they're really antifa radicals who dream of hardcore marxism (these individuals are dangerous and nearly all of them will not bulge and will have to be dismissed). Authority, especially in a liberal world, is frightening. They assume it would be automatically excessive. Truth be said, fascism and national socialism have certainly not fallen short of examples of this excess of power applied in all sorts of domains which should have remained within the hands of local groups of people. The best demonstration of this is how after its defeat, no force remained in Germany so as to oppose in a way or another the alien authorities. Minds were crushed, people aghast, just like shocked children without parents. It was easier to destroy the state than attack every single local group and family. But when the state invited itself everywhere and took control of families, it was crossing a line that proved detrimental to the success of the doctrine. In other words, too much "statism" had a thing to do in its undoing.
>>3059 What are anons' response to leftists who claim fascism is just crony capitalism?
>>12065 >Discussing with lefties Don't waste your time with them
>>12065 I ask them to support their claims. I’m sure we’re all quite familiar with how we talk and how other fascists talk being on /fascist/ and all – how can leftists reconcile the fact that fascists and White Nationalists constantly berate capitalism and blame it for globalism and homogenization, yet still be supporters of capitalism? Are we just dupes of the bourgeoisie? Oftentimes I think this comes down to how one defines terms – these people are often operating off of a Marxist terminology where as long as any sort of wage labor exists, or if private property still exists, you’re a capitalist state. There are even Marxists who claim that the USSR was just “state capitalism” the whole time. I would also point out cases to them such as when Hitler seized control of Junkers Aircraft and Motor Works due to the fact that Hugo Junkers refused to contribute to rearmament. The national interest came before the interest of capitalists here. The goal of the Völkish state was communal harmony and the interest of the Volk. Hitler was more concerned with ending class warfare and nationalizing the minds of the Volk rather than their businesses. Hitler was no “capitalist” though and most if not all real Fascists are against the type of unbridled capitalism of modernity
>>12086 I don’t know about in real life, but when the occasional lefty crawls in here it’s always been a good laugh.

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