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Fascist Architecture General Blackshirt 05/22/2020 (Fri) 21:18:09 ID: e810f7 No.188
What architectural style does /fascist/ prefer, ornate classical architecture, or the more austere "stripped classicism" favored by Speer?
>>188 Depends on the nation you build in.
>>189 Not necessarily. Classical architecture is a broad term that varies from nation to nation. For example, French classical architecture would be different from German classical architecture, but they both reflect their nation's traditions. Stripped classical is more simplified and utilitarian, without being as ugly as other utilitarian styles (such as modernism and brutalism) I personally think it depends on the purpose of the building. A Capitol building should be more ornate and decorative, while something like the DMV should probably be more stripped and austere.
I'm definitely a fan of Speer's stuff. I love the huge, imposing buildings. Very grand and powerful. It's really a shame that Berlin never got redesigned.
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>>188 >What architectural style does /fascist/ prefer Deepens on the nation, architecture should express the culture and history of their builders and the place it was built in. While I respect individual vision and recognize Architecture as art, I reject Architecture which only serves to showcase the artist as an individual while completely ignoring the local population, instead I would encourage Architecture which showcases it's comunal nature (some design, some do the bricks, some the reliefs, etc) or are done by someone who understands the local culture and respects it, absolutely no « The Finnish architect Spräänmdo Spordo was hired to rebuild Seoul's city-hall, he said the surrealist steel and glass behemoth that now dominates the landscape was inspired by a plate of kimchi he once had, his admiration for Danish Neo-Post-Pre-Proto-Ethnoprimitivist architect Bjørgen Askel can really be seen in his liberal use of parabolic stairs inspired by Amazonian Anthills ». Beauty should not need years of academic indoctrination in order to be seen, although we must also not fall into the modern, simplistic and mass-appealing excuse for beauty de see everywhere now. Being Fascist architecture I expect an emphasis on human figures, more relieves in public places, historical references and a sense or harmony in how each element interconnects, but that is a matter of city planing. >P.S. Fuck cars
And then there is Authoritarian Architecture, I really like it, but I have no idea on how to implement them in a city, so I would keep them isolated and to a minimum All these examples are sculptures by Renato Nicolodi
>>199 I like that. It's like the intimidating appearance of brutalism, without the ugliness.
>>190 while a dmv shouldn't look like a castle european or asian it should still be modest and not an eyesore. let it blend in with the local architecture.
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Now you've done it, a hard topic. >>197 You are the Mex, right? I don't think you read it but i once made a post criticizing many of your points once in another board back in the 8 place when you made something discussing national architecture around mid-60's, now that i've read you more and i understand where your ideas come from i want to apologize, even if i think that post was unread by you it was pretty harsh and took things with a very regionalist tint which i possess at times, although in strict arch things i still hold some of those points. Back on point, everyone has the right idea: Arch style depends on the nation and culture at hand, and i would dare it just depends mostly on the cultural region than nation, this will bring us into what a nation is and the fact a nation/people and a state-nation are two different things being peddled as the same in the last century or so, hence the confusion by many average civilians when faced with this discussion. Now the style itself depends on the actual physical region first, the function thing, what it's build for to withstand, then the psychological thing comes into play: It is going to be a government, work or residential building? If a gov place, for example, then it is supposed to be caring and welcoming like a Secretariat of Health or something imposing and intimidating like a Ministry of Defence? And then after these 2 comes the form factor doctrine with its ornamental/deco aspects which are what most people see, if done in such ways it can even be perceived first than even space, which is paradoxical in theory. While i don't want to bring any controversy it is worthwhile to mention 2 famous examples of fascist architecture, mind you for very obvious reasons scholars and theorists after WWII are biased against these kind of things but they cannot hide they had a clear ideology behind them and served a purpose, and for all their butthurt also speerheaded many advancements in architecture. First it's the one i know many will dislike because of its innate characteristics, but they are ideologically "justified". La Casa del Fascio of Como, Lombardy in Italy by Giuseppe Terragni, nowadays revizioned as Palazzo Terragni, is a rationalist/functionalist building made in the mid-30's to store the local gathering of the Fascist party, hence the name "House of the League". While on the surface it's your typical modernist house, Giuseppe knew fully well he was going to get his ass kicked if he just pulled a shoebox project like they did back then and actually studied the surroundings along with his knowledge of renaissance architecture of Italy. He roughly organized spaces like in the italian city-states, hence directly making reference to the old governmental places in old Rome, and made a well-illuminated atrium as the central place just like the palazzi of the landlords. The thing about the party wanting a building of such style was because of costs and image, first there wasn't that much money to make full-on palaces in every city they needed a branch, second because in such a rural place (back then) they needed to give the message of technological advancement (as italians loved the hell out of Futurismo) and because they needed to make hold of the presence of a new era, and what more so than a highly-modernist building in the middle of the old city while not losing the basic scale of grand spaces. The result itself went a bit over the top in terms of bringing new things to the table but it was considered a great piece of theory in practice and people supposedly did feel its intended purpose. It was later on decorated with frescoes from several painters well-versed in the aforementioned futurismo, just like stridentismo and some nouveau stuff. Later on after the war it was repurposed as an italian IRS building and most traces of the old era taken down or painted over. The building served its psychological purposes well, not to mention the functional ones (respecting history "in theory") and even went on to be a flagship example of the ever-so-innovative italian designers. Shame the guy then was thrown as army support line to Stalingrad and came back mad as hell and died relatively young from cardiac problems after a short-spell of general illness. >>212 >brutalism, without the ugliness. Brutalism is not ugly.
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>>217 >Brutalism is not ugly. I respectfully disagree
>>220 the fuck even is that last one
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The second example is something most of us probably know already, the new wing of the Reich Chancellery, The Neu Reichskanzlei in Berlin, Germany by Albert Speer, is a highly lavish and very effective concept of governmental architecture. One day Adolf told Albert he wanted a new wing of the chancellery because the old place was not very good for the party's activities, which were plenty in terms of organization, along with personal headquarters and secretly a future bunker area, he gave the entire side street, by that point with the old stables and services areas demolished just for him, and a pack of official budget orders to do whatever he needed, the catch was he needed that within a year. Speer gladly accepted but in secret the dude would go on to sleep little in his passion to deliver, and he did in grand fashion. Taking his own refined skills in Stripped Classicism (also called Clean Classicism) he started conceptualizing the needs: Sturdy and well-built, grand and holding the culture/reich's ideals. The most apparent thing is the decoration but like in all these new trends in architecture, ornamentation came with innate texture instead of man-made ones (Speer clearly understood Adolf Loos' writings) and even went a step ahead in reducing costs of the same, but more on that later because the real protagonist was another one. Albert ran a system in which he created a route to see the Fuhrer, if someone had a meeting with him or simply wanted to see him the route should be a psychological ritual, and if we judge by pictures Speer did a great job, the trip itself is extremely intimidating, especially if said visitor was a rural person not used to such dimensions in building. I was going to write the route from what i remembered in a book but i found an excellent text from Speer pin-pointing the journey: From Wilhelmsplatz an arriving diplomat drove through great gates and walk later into a court of honour. By way of an outside staircase he first entered a medium-sized reception room from which double doors over 5 meters high opened into a large hall clad in mosaic. He then ascended several steps, passed through a round room with domed ceiling, and saw before him a gallery 150 m long. Hitler was particularly impressed by my gallery because it was twice as long as the Hall of Mirrors at Versailles. Hitler was delighted: "On the long walk from the entrance to the reception hall they'll get a taste of the power and grandeur of the German Reich!." The series of rooms comprising the approach to Hitler's reception gallery were decorated with a rich variety of materials and colours and totalled 221 m in length. Clearly Adolf knew the concept, before they even reached him they would already be intimidated and in an inferior position, it's after all a long walk through absurd reception halls and security checkpoints, both densely texturized, to then reach a gallery full of high-ranking members and soldiers, after walking and seeing/hearing all the people at the disposal of the Fuhrer you reach a very tall secretary reception to finally walk in into the man's office. Adolf seems to have requested Speer reunions just to gaze into the plans and say nothing as the architect mentioned he let him do anything as he was already impressed. The place was finished 2 days in advance and won Albert Speer any kind of recognition for being a good planner, hence why he got high-ranking places in the war. Costs were high but still under the expectation, an example was the marble halls and decorations, our dude here used limestone cut with high duration saws (something normal nowadays but back then unusual) and then had them be polished hard until they reached a very strong color. The process was very long but still reduced costs very highly if otherwise marble was used, also construction was quick because check the ceilings: Stripped Classicism, even as the name states otherwise, uses many modern techniques or old ones rarely used but effective in large scale/mass area constructions because it was "modulated" or done in "cast" units. In the case of the ceilings/roofing these were done with a functionalist grid design, something very rationalist and german in those days due to the Bauhaus/Werkbund newly-found legacy, and build with reinforced concrete (re-bar skeleton with concrete) making it by de-facto a brutalist building. Thing is, even when its current iteration was made around those years in Germany, that kind of construction appeared in old Rome (sans steel elements), one primary example is the all-famous Roman Pantheum, showcasing a giant cement/high-density concrete dome in square grid... little less than 2000 years ago, and the Reichskanzlei reminisces of it in the Ocular room serving as checkpoint from the Mosaic Hall and the Marble Gallery, although without using the dome's form itself as weight support. Mind you this is just a part, sadly after the war the allies did a mess and the entire thing got demolished, but it took its time and proved Speer as class having withstood the entire bombing without c
>>220 Do you want me to post a screencap or do i write it up again? Not an aggressive comment but i cannot find the images at hand. >>199 >Authoritarian Architecture That's a ZOG term, the proper term for classification is Stripped Classicism or in the more extreme cases... i forgot the term but a handful of architects drew about it, one called Étienne-Louis Boullée and much, much later on Speer and a bunch of commies did too. Known sometimes with the soviets as Constructivism.
>>220 Brutalism isn't meant for a society that wants to strive forward. It's the perfect environment for dread and oppresion due to the lack of curves, something that is instinctive in nature. It's purely artificial, it doesn't have any hint of human expression, and it's main reason for it's use would be utilitarianism. It's a pretty great aesthetic, but it's not the one where you should live in. Purgatory may look a lot like it.
>>220 >>223 Screw it, here's a repost of mine sorry bud ''Brutalism is first and foremost a construction system instead of merely a stylistic/conceptual one, one which serves 3 purposes: building durability (if done like it was supposed to), rapidness in construction wherever the place (if an industrial sector is near) and high plasticity (if you have top-tier woodworkers). And its dense nature provides a very strong object visually, hence being the preferred way for government institutions and monolithic companies, as most banks and institutions employ it. The bigger picture that seems to be missed is that concrete and steel have roughly the same properties in terms of elasticity, and both are highly common materials that can be mass produced and easily applied anywhere, reinforced concrete is a constructor's dream. While many examples have worked against the spirit of its local population (see pic 1, a grey but brick-based area with notable angled roofing) due to gommie ideologies and low-budget approach of a government (consequence of the infamous International Style and overall justdoit mentality) you also have craftsmen who have molded the system into their local surroundings (pic 2, geometry and pathways done to mimic the moutains surrounding the city and antique buildings) and some others, like the majestic Paul Rudolph, have even turned it into a Bourgeoisie architecture itself (pic 3 and pic 4 from Hernandez Navarro). It might not be always grey as you can tint it at pleasure, plus it can be highly ornamental if you have the money, a high plasticity and choice of color makes it playdough for a man conscious of his culture. Also pic 5 is a place called Habitat 67, a highly-Functionalist Brutalist building done in the classic "let's erase all trace of identity and culture" way of modern-era architecture, done by Israeli architect Moshe Safdie. We can go further mentioning who were the inventors of that kind of reset-everything architecture that was the modern movement, but let me just say that you are more likely to known the answer, the surprising part is that in the middle of it all there were well-meaning germans and austrians that would regret it, and also Mussolini-era italians who weren't expecting a reversal of their ideologies.'' That last part refers to Austrians inventing their Viennese Secession architecture school that refers to them parting ways of their local, and somewhat continental, tradition of ornamenting every single thing in a building, one of the big shots in the movement was a dude called Adolf Loos who had an unorthodox humor and wrote a manifesto called "Ornament & Crime in his usual tongue-in-cheek attitude, sadly for him germanics are prone to taking things too seriously and ran with it, rallying and making a strong movement towards no ornament at all. The Germans because the Werkbund'', who wanted to lower costs while still being human spaces in the context of industrial areas, got carried out due to the ease of application and the Bauhaus, in their internal politics, made the sterile and too-efficient plans the norm for most anything for the sake of money. And the Italians because they refined the rationalist idea with their natural flair and unknowingly made it vogue for the rest of the countries, like Japan. In short: Brutalism is a way to use materials and tools, not an artistic style itself, hence why it can't be ugly in principle
>>226 the execution of brutalist architecture tends towards the ugly at best and de-person-ing at worst. it is most unnatural, with jutting edges and not a curve to be seen. a building's appearance greatly effects those who inhabit it, use it, or see it often, and seeing a drab slab of concrete every day is pretty shit. governmental buildings and the houses of the well-off should reflect the pinnacle of local design, but the poorer shouldnt be condemned to soviet blocks. schools and universities should be inviting, as knowledge betters the self, while hospitals should have an air of cleanliness while rejecting the sterility that comes with brutalism. the only place i see brutalism fitting in is military bases both within and outside the nation.
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>>228 Are we going to turn a blind eye to the pics at hand in said post? The argument you are giving me is the same as weapons are bad because they harm children, knowing full well that's not the case and it's not for kid killing but for defense, and they don't even act at all it's the individual who's using it doing the shooting. Brutalism is a system to build things, architects are just a bunch of lazy fags/are given 2 weeks to make a project for construction and avoid ornamental details. I don't know what's not to understand about that, and if we go with >>220 for ugly then we have the case of rare/showcase examples and the last one being a 3D render. Blame the architects and designers, not the construction system, you still can texturize it, tint it, cover it in stucco, put windows, make curves if your workers are not a bunch of elementary school drop-outs and design it in scales fit for a human. While i agree about the general image of public institutions having to be inviting and not a closed grey block, it still doesn't mean it's a style.
>>225 >Purgatory may look a lot like it. I think you have something here. It makes for very striking images but living in its shadow compresses and starves the human spirit, and it is precisely that human spirit given nourishment that vitally animates societies.
>>217 Do not stress about it, I easily forget things like that >>223 I dod not wanted to use the therm « Brutalism » because, as >>226 said, brutalism is less about imposing and more about materials and practices, rejecting Bourgeoisie ornamentation and thinking that the only way of representing « The people » is by stripping everything into flat and utilitarian faces. I find it funny that even if they were wrong they still nailed Brutalism as an analogy of the communist spirit. However, I would like to set up an exception, that being my country. Wewuzing for us would mean Precolumbian architecture, which was monolitic and imposing, while they were originally full of color nowadays we see them as bare rock and mortar, so it is quite easy to use brutalist-style in a way that is relevant to us. Still, there are manny bad examples because Mexico was NazBol strange in its relationships with the Western and Eastern blocks, we accepted manny Spanish Rep*blicans and thus gained an influx of communist sympathizers with big aspirations and no respect nor knowledge of our culture.
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Here is the Heroic Military College Agustín Hernández - Manuel González Rul (1/2)
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Heroic Military College Agustín Hernández - Manuel González Rul (2/2)
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Tijuana Cultural Center (CeCuT), the only place I truly like in my city, I took the picture of the garden, nice to see how much it has grown, it will serve as inspiration for when I finally get to have a garden
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And lastly Mexico's Nacional Antropology Museum, if you ever get to visit Mexico City then I recomend this place and Chapultepec Castle Which the Americans turned into Proto-Columbine back in the war. I sprinkled in some of the exhibits just to draw more comparisons (1/2)
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(2/2)
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I almost forgot about the Chamber of Deputies (Green, White and Red) and here is the front of the Anthropology Museum
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I love the gothic style, its been represented as a very brooding, dark style in many things but personally I see it as testament to the creativity and aspiration of man. Some of the vistas in the remaining gothic structures are awe inspiring given the tools of the time they were created in., and they resonate with western and eastern europeans and americans. They are spacious, they have so much fine detail, so much work and idealism put into every small brick that you can get lost scrutinizing each shape for hours. I'm not even religious personally but I wonder how anyone can feel close to god in a modern 2:2 concrete box converted into a church instead of merely gazing upward into a grand vaulted ceiling full of frescoes and devotional paintings. The aging process on the stone outside of most modern gothic structures only makes them more imposing and impressive as you can see that they have stood the test of time and are treasured and cared for. Clearly notre dame had to be burned down to crush the last glimmer of aspiration in the local white population. I'm not calling for every residential house to be turned into a brutalist 40k hab block. But some creative and government spaces and common areas would look great in early and modern gothic-fusion designs. anything to escape this cheap OOPS ALL WINDOWS modern jewcube design
>>246 >my city >Tijuana Eeeeew >Wewuzing for us would mean Precolumbian architecture >Mesoamerican culture >Tijuana I know your background by now but i still find funny our old saying here in the Northwest: No true northerner lives in Tijuana. I know you are actually one but i had to say that because banter many americans think it's the pinnacle of the region, while being basically a Mexico City colony in the middle of the region most adverse to them, not to mention filled with tons of non-mexican central americans kicked from the US. So back to the point, Hernandez Navarro is/was a savant (and an asshole) but he truly is the country's best architect, Colegio Militar it's a monumental thing but what really sells it for me are the details and natural illumination solutions he thought about, the pool/swimming training areas look like temples with their skylights. >>250 >gothic style >dark It is seen as such but do not be swayed by its neo-gothic buildings that are actually more norman than anything, the original one had to be one of the most luminous styles around. The Goths/Germans even invented a way to make crystal that actually passes/multiplies more light when it enters, i think it was lead or some other metal. They would do it again when they developed camera glasses later on but that's another story. >I wonder how anyone can feel close to god in a modern 2:2 concrete box converted into a church Seclusion, >>225 said it well, it is a feeling of purgatory although i think i interpret it in a "positive" manner unlike he did. Holiness is space perception + light, gigantic spaces full of detail revealed in shadow and claustrophobic places with a small shiver of light are both religious but give their different feelings, one gives immensity and tiny speck feelings while the other strikes hope in the middle of despair or a sterile barren environment where God still prevails. >jewcube design Funny that you mention that in a christian church post, that reminds me of another post i did time ago when i stumbled upon something in San Fagcisco once...
>>252 >No true northerner lives in Tijuana I am Sinaloan, so you are kinda-right, the only reason to live in Tijuana is all the money Californians trow at you. I would not go back to Sinaloa because Why would I? but as soon as I can I am leaving this city to live somewhere else while still holding business here, although I do plan on staying in Baja. >natural illumination solutions I actually really like that and it is one of my biggest concerns when abdicating for traditional architecture. I like well-illuminated buildings, but hate glass-blocks, by main ideas are things like courtyards, light-colors and to waste as little sky-light as possible. Traditional Central Mexico buildings are an example of this. Pic related too, this is a problem people of the past had too, so is there where I should look for inspiration
>>259 I'm an idiot

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