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Individualism versus Collectivism: False dichotomy? Blackshirt 05/20/2020 (Wed) 23:43:51 ID: 28f717 No.110
Often people associate modernity with extreme individualism, but in a sense it seems more like an atomized herd pushed around and directed from above by Jews which allow them to seek identities in ultimately superficial things such as brands, television shows, video games, clothing, sex preferences, and even gender. A rootless herd of nigger-cattle. For individual strength they substitute sheer quantity, common sentiment, group activities. The less one needs others, the more powerful one is. True individualism is something almost non-existent today, this we seen within the Übermensch, who arises as a reaction against the psychology of the mass, he's the last uprising of man as a beast of prey against its captivity in soulless culture to shake off the limitations of modernity. And this does not even necessitate having no connection to a people and culture. Just as individualism is something that does not exist in the herd-society of today, so has the organic society of natural groups, blood and soil, been eliminated gradually.
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>>110 but that`s not what people mean when they are talking about individualism and collectivism, what they mean is what needs come first, the collective or the individual, modern society is individualistic because it preaches hedonism, freedom over duty, a collectivist society preaches self-sacrifice, duty over freedom, the fact that the masses are acting like mindless herds is essentially jews preying on the naturally collectivist mind of a human with pseudo-nationalism, but instead of fighting for the future of your people, you`re fighting for brands, sport teams, useless shit... it has nothing to do with collectivism. Also a collectivist society is not inherently against the Übermensch, fascism, being collective, places great importance on the individual, the leader is one, a individual, property is owned by individuals, the only thing is that the needs of the individual must be in accordance with the group.
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>>111 I looked up the exact definitions of the words and it seems that you are correct. Good post. While I of course stand by most of what I wrote in the OP, with the necessary corrections taken in mind what you add really completes it. It appears that years of ecelebs babbling about these words had twisted my perception of them.
>>130 What it boils down to is that strength and discipline decide if individualism and collectivism are good or bad. Are you an individual because you can be independent of others or are you just a hedonistic egomaniac who cannot stop his own greed? Are you part of a group because what needs to be done requires a group for the best outcome or are you part of a group because you have been forced to or do you seek to enrich yourself?
>>130 i understood what you were trying to say, it`s just semantics honestly, i believe that you were trying to highlight is that our modern society is not only trying to destroy the individuality of the people while also corrupting what we have in common, and not only through international capitalism, but also through marxism
>>140 >i believe that you were trying to highlight is that our modern society is not only trying to destroy the individuality of the people while also corrupting what we have in common, and not only through international capitalism, but also through marxism I'd say that is an accurate characterization. Maybe though I'd say that it's less "corrupting what we have in common", but eroding what we have in common and attempting to fill the void (or even having the void filled by outside hands) by ersatz substitutes -- but even this is largely semantics. It is definitely the fault of the two-headed beast of Marxism and International Capitalism though, because both more or less seem to have a utopian conception of the future and similar ideas of "progress". It might seem weird to say at first, but if you think about it, it is true. Utility is all that matters, this consists in "the happiness of the majority", something that is equated with leisure and bread and circuses. Authentic religion and spirituality has been progressively replaced by enthusiasm for "achievements of humanity" (progress) which is equivalent to labor-saving technology and amusement-making.
>>141 > "the happiness of the majority" it's not even the happiness of the majority, the people being exploited in china, India, Africa and central/south America aren't happy, the world as a whole has seen a rise in depression, suicide and mental illness, even in first world countries, the bread and circuses only serve to distract the people of their own sadness,(pics related) it's just the utility part, the power of finance, which tries to modernize places like Africa, for the sole purpose of creating markets where to sell products. >Authentic religion and spirituality has been progressively replaced by enthusiasm for "achievements of humanity" (progress) although i do believe they both have the same ideas of progress, but i wouldn't put achievements of humanity as the thing that replaced religion and spirituality, but on production and consumption of goods, profit and wealth, that's the main drive of the consumerist hell we live today, where what a certain nation product is dictated by what this nations is best at production, it's the utility part again, we can see this in how many nations produces huge amounts of the same product, only to waste it by selling it on the international market, and with the money buying products that could be produced at home.
>>157 >the world as a whole has seen a rise in depression, suicide and mental illness, even in first world countries, the bread and circuses only serve to distract the people of their own sadness,(pics related) This is spot on. It really is just distraction. Statistical rates of depression, anxiety, drug-abuse, suicide and other psychological woes continue to rise despite everything. It’s almost like a temporary period of great material abundance doesn’t lead to a fulfilling existence and true human happiness... >but i wouldn't put achievements of humanity as the thing that replaced religion and spirituality, but on production and consumption of goods, profit and wealth I guess you are right. Nowadays Mammon comes first in the pantheon, but I definitely think that there is a sort of cult around continuously pushing the limits in what we can do in terms of tech, regardless of consequences. It’s a spectacle for all. I don’t want to force my Linkola shit too much so I’ll say that for better or for worse its a Faustian bargain and it will end up how it ends up in the end. See for example the mass psychosis about going to Mars.
Well, I made a thread back at Hoppe-sama (R.I.P.) about the common legends of a superior man and how it insinuated a blueprint for a proper fascist man, however most posters sperged out about how Fascism can only be expressed trough collectivism and attempts at expressing fascism trough the individual were oxymoronic. I greatly disagree with the notion that we must wage war against the individual and that we can only extrapolate power from the group, I want a wolf-pack, not an ant colony
>>185 The fascist man embraces the amor fati life, is self-disciplined, not cucked by prevailing herd-sentiment and is ultimately life-affirming, exalting the body, strength, health, etc. Needless to say that one has to realize the unity of thought and action as well. "To know and not act is not to know". If you actually carry it out to its logical conclusion you'll probably end up dead though.
>>157 I hope you all realize the third image is clearly an attempt at humor. Porn addiction is a serious issue with society but so is paranoia and false evidence.
>>198 I think there is a misunderstanding on the nature of Unity, like Unity is the end-all-be-all and not a means towards National Rebirth and us finally reaching this sate-of-being. Leftists completely rejected the individual, and their systems withered with time because –and no-one wants to admit it– society is made out of individuals, it is not just a mass you can mold at your will. >If you actually carry it out to its logical conclusion you'll probably end up dead though You will end up dead no matter what you do, Your goal should be to transcend life and be completely satisfied with it at the time of your death. Manny romanticize The Young Death, but the actions that will make me feel satisfied are not thing that can be done in a few years, so I reject it. >>201 >t. Found the better porn
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>>201 I hope it is an attempt at humor but it's unironically impossible to tell.
>>185 >I greatly disagree with the notion that we must wage war against the individual but fascism doesn't wage war on the individual, fascism tries to put the actions of the individual in a way that benefits those around him, while also giving him the same characteristics of the golden age ideal >>201 maybe i should have put the coomer guy
>>207 Well said. I think it’s also important to look at what Hitler said on these topics as well. In Mein Kampf we can see that Hitler in no way denigrated the individual, in fact the power of certain individual personalities was outright stressed in some portions. It is not the masses which create the great inventions of the world, or who can inspire nations — it is rare individual geniuses, the best of the best of a race – people like Hitler himself, or Mussolini, Lenin, Mao, etc Love them or hate them all of these figured had these traits. And yet while Hitler realized that certain individuals could exert momentous influence on the world around them, he still recognized that each and every individual – provided that they are not utterly rootless and depraved – exist within a certain racial and cultural context. Fascism exalts the individual while recognizing the importance of the group. It is communism and other forms of leftism which are enemies of the individual man and his capacity for genius.
>>110 These are on b-ok.xyz and/or libgen.is They are exactly what you're into here.
>>403 I’ve been looking to get into Christoper Lasch soon
There wasn't an "individual" prior to contact with non-Indo European doctrine/belief. The earliest acceptable of the "individual" traces to Zoroastrians.
>>487 Wait, Serbian Serranofag says Monism and collectivism are firmly Jewish tho, surely you must apologize before his supreme majesty
>>488 (heil’d) I still don’t get how Monism is supposedly inherently Jewish or “proto-SJW” to use his favorite phrase. I forgot how he responded to being told that Cosmotheism, which is inherently pro-white, is monistic and pantheistic
>>492 His people were raped by the Turks and never got past the ptsd, he's so Balkan he's Balkanizing the White Race.
>>492 I mean, any retard can read the Bible and note how it's obviously a polytheistic Ontology, otherwise what the fuck is Yahweh so jealous about, and why is it so important to tear down the rival cult centers? Also, there's no hint of Monism whatsoever anywhere in the thing, either testament. Souls are different from each other and from God, Angels are different from God and so on
Yeah, monolatry is very obvious in the Old Testament from the parts that I’ve read. I don’t get how Christkikes pull these mental gymnastics between the Old and New. If only they had taken the Marcionpill (but he was still incorrect). There’s no message of “oneness” in the Torah really except for submitting to one god. Truly pantheistic monism is the final redpill, provided you view it not in a hippie way, but similar to the Aztecs, i.e. with some sort of impersonal dynamic force immanent within a reality defined not by being but rather becoming or change. I think it fits well with NatSoc’s affirmation of a Natural Order. >>493 Is he really a Serb?
>>497 I agree we need to reclaim Process Ontology for and from a Pan-European perspective, if not Pan-Aryan. I'm working on using Jacob Grimm's Teutonic Mythology to do this, but it'll probably be the next generation, or the one after that, that sees a practical result.
A note in that direction of course is the subject of The Fates, Norns, and Wyrd/Doom itself. Right wingers are so influenced by Aristotle and Descartes &c that they can't tolerate Fatalism, which is hilarious considering their preference for cyclical time and the work of Spengler (and Hegel &c). How can you believe in Racial Spirit among other things without a Fatalistic and Processual weltanschauung? It is the DESTINY of the White Race to ascend to Mastery. A Hero is one who faces his inescapable Doom. This is absolutely Germanic .
>>498 Weird, he seems so much less hostile there kek. >>500 I agree. I’ve not yet read that Aztec book, but I’ve been skimming through it, and it squares with a lot of what I already believed as a pagan, and it’s interesting to see it articulated in a Mesoamerican context. Through such views one can interpret polytheism as merely a metaphors or abstractions from the single unity and bridge the gap that there often is between the new and old. This type of view is not new at all either, as we see it touched upon by a Stoic in Cicero’s “The Nature of the Gods”. The names of the gods, it is said” were merely appellations given to the Stoic idea of “God” at work in different parts of Nature. Only an Abrahamic could look at this and cry atheism.
>>502 No, he's absolutely as hostile as he his here and elsewhere That thread: https://16chan.xyz/pol/res/26380.html
>>501 >preference for cyclical time It’s almost necessary to have a processual view to truly understand what is meant by this if one’s not just paying lip-service to the idea. I don’t why but a lot of those who have been influenced by Abrahamic thinking seem to think that the idea that the cosmos is processive and lacks entities, structures, and states of affairs that are static, immutable, and permanent is somehow nihilistic and brings them to despair and wallowing.
>>505 Being still completely encased by Aristotelian substance ontological ideology. Basically, being low cpu
>>505 Another mesoamerican tangent to explore: >PicRel: http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=13ABB396B67CA47E9D946D8EEBF6E663 Specifically where the King literally takes the identity of the previous Kings due to cyclical time and process Ontology, he literally is the Form of King, he is the biomovement of King, he has BECOME King
>>505 >>507 And of course this agrees with Esoteric Hitlerism as in Jung, that Hitler was possessed by the Racial Spirit to be the Volksführer
>>507 >>508 That part about kingship sounds super interesting. I skimmed through a bit but haven’t found the section yet, I will have to look in more depth later. I feel like I will be reading a lot about the Aztecs and Maya in the near future, as well as of course among ancient Aryans in general.
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Holy shit what did I tell you? Hostility INTENSIFIES note this shit: >Not any concrete book I'm afraid, I mostly read series of scientific articles, web pages, portions of archived books etc. to recognize the 'pattern' and then let my subconsciousness process it. Try using search engines, then some publications, then your 'blood memory' will give you hints what to focus on until you intuitively recognize the essence of the idea.
>>511 >blood memory Blood memory is real but I have a feel that this means "whatever I think is right". I'm gonna have to head over to 16chan. Screw your optics, I'm going in
>>488 >collectivism What you call "collectivism" was a term pushed by a degenerate Jew (repeat myself) woman named Ayn Rand.
>>518 >Ayn Rand >Collectivist Wut
>>519 You misread the post. She was the one who pushed the term "collectivism" as something to be opposed. She associated it with the Soviet Union (itself having a deep tie to Ashkenazi Jews). You need to recognize that the Jews have long been a race of narcissists and neurotics. "Individualism" as you call it is something that would only really be mass grown within an extremely low-trust kind like the Jews.
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>>511 Do you realize that you retarded goons are only proving me right by acting like total shills? Do you lack self-awareness so much that you think that no one will recognize your Jewish behavior? You truly are less conscious than bacteria kek. >Hostility A Jew cries out in pain as he stabs you. I'm not the one trying to larp some kind of political assassination on chans in a fit of psychotic jew frenzy. You are not exactly unrecognizable either :>) I must have really nailed it by debunking the core of your subversion, monism, universalism and good-evil false dichotomy. Imagine what would happen if whites entirely rejected universalist cuck (((morality))), embraced hardcore tribalism of their ancestors and made Holocaust real again. Hell, not only whites, but everyone else. Is this why you rats are scared of China so much? Because your masonic pseudo-moralfaggotry doesn't work on them and because they are as vile and ruthless as you are? Because they are, OY GEVALT, a competition?!! See, I can make screencaps too. Reddit spaced Hasbara gaslightning shilling for India as some kind of spiritual model. It is, if you want to wallow in your own shit (literally) for all eternity. >>492 Because if all is one, then there are certain ethical and moral implications when it comes to treatment of non-whites. You will see how quickly these kikes will start pushing for racial unity and uplifting and brotherhood of all races, along with other B'nai B'irth retardation. In fact, they did it on Julay as soon as people dropped their guard.
>>683 >Because if all is one, then there are certain ethical and moral implications when it comes to treatment of non-whites. Once again the example of Dr. Pierce's Cosmotheism blows this assertion that if a worldview is pantheistic / monistic that "there are certain ethical and moral implications when it comes to treatment of non-whites" out of the water. Think of the dynamic Whole for a moment as a human body. It is correct to say that every wart, pimple and blackhead partakes in our nature as a part of our whole being, but does that mean that these are valuable parts of the human body? The overriding importance is the role a thing plays, how it serves. Not everything serves, and somethings are manifestly harmful are useless just like warts and pimples on our own bodies. All takes part in the divine nature, but it must be viewed with this in mind. To say that all partake simply is saying that nothing in the universe exists independently of the universe as a whole. Dr. Pierce saw that the purpose of life is the increase of consciousness and he saw that our race, the White race, was the leading edge and the living agent of that increase in consciousness. I suggest listening to this video which BTFOs many of the assertions that cuckery and monism must necessarily coincide: https://archive.org/details/youtube-iHw5G5Uqjew
A question I wanted to ask: In Fascism, what freedoms are there for citizens? Do they have the right to speech, assembly, etc.? I want to learn more about Fascist politics, etc.
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>>2328 Freedom of speech doesn't exist. There's no country on this planet where you can say whatever you want without consequences, and rightly so. If we're in power subversives will have zero power to push their degeneracy, globohomo and demoralization propaganda and lies onto the population. The only reason this is allowed to happen today is due to memes like freedom of speech and freedom of the press (the last is merely the freedom of Jewish billionaires to pedal narratives to the masses regardless of the truth value or whether it is beneficial for the nation and its people). There is a reason why National Socialists burned books full of sick sexual content, communist literature, and other subversive teachings.
>>2328 >>2332 In other words you have the right to speak, to criticize and to question your government but if your dissent is deemed destabilizing or actively advocates for what is immoral or disgusting, it will be quelled, with force if necessary. Many American Fascists usually see the value in keeping Freedom of Speech with some slight modifications as a right, as it is part of our heritage, and Fascism is not incompatible with Republicanism, as it is Roman in its inception, though it is wholly incompatible with Democracy.
>>2332 If you'll allow me to play devil's advocate on one hand I can understand burning degenerate literature but at the same time I feel like not using some of the disease to create an immunity to it? It seems like completely denying it would make people more likely to search for it. I could be, and very well may be, wrong but I'm looking to debate.
>>2347 I'd appreciate you explaining how it can work with Republicanism. I'm aware there's plenty I'm unaware of and need to learn/unlearn, so I apologize for the constant question and interrogation. One thing I've been concerned with, as an American, is our rights particularly if we adopted a Fascist government.
>>2413 Figure out how to keep yourself more than 56% White.
>>2416 Aside from that :P
>>2412 Degeneracy in society needs to be understood in a very specific way. If something is degenerate, it's not conductive to man's healthy instincts, well-being, improvement (individually or in societal terms), environment or anything at all. Far too often this term goes undefined unfortunately. What is natural and healthy is necessary for the well-being of an individual or group, what is degenerate degrades, weakens and harms all of these. It's superfluous and there's zero reason for it to exist in society. Don't get the wrong idea though, I don't see the future as being some sort of austere monastery though -- this should be clear enough from how I mentioned "man's healthy instincts" above. I am no puritan, man has a sexual society, nudity is not inherently "evil" or "depraved" as Christfags would tell you it is, occasionally people can probably drink alcohol or eat shitty food without harming themselves in any significant way. We need to teach self-discipline and moderation. True freedom comes not from reckless indulgence in the lusts and desires, but from mastery of these "lower" instincts. It does no good to teach children about homosexuality and anal sex, it does no good to teach children that they can chop off their cocks and fill themselves with estrogen or testosterone to become a freak of nature, it does no good to teach that men and women are exactly equal in every way and interchangeable with each other, there's zero reason to allow people to be bashed over the head with propaganda telling them to hate themselves and their ancestors for what they did during wars, no matter how savage and violent it may have been. I could probably go on, but you get the point. https://www.bitchute.com/video/UlPCIj3sRSKv/
>>2419 >We need to teach self-discipline and moderation. That I can definitely agree on. Everything in moderation, etc. I agree with the rest, mind you. I just don't want to imagine a world where everything is, like you said, an austere monastery. I appreciate your answer greatly.
>>2413 America was modeled very closely on Rome in it's republican days, one of it's earliest symbols is where the name Fascist come from, if you are being objective you can see the very roots of what later became fascist thought in the writings and philosophy of the founding fathers, they too stood wholeheartedly against the French Liberalism under which we live now, when it happened they should have bolstered what was already a brilliant government system against the predations of those who followed, Liberte Egalite, Fraternite, but they didn't so here we are retreading the same ground in many ways and trying to figure out how we do not repeat their mistakes
>>2421 The Roman Republic/Empire was a clown show of disastrous mismanagement and seeking to emulate it in any way is dumb.
>>2427 and they still managed to conquer White Europe.
>>2433 They (as in the actual Romans) were more or less the same modern day North Italians or Frenchmen. This is shown by Ancient DNA and just looking at their art. So they were certainly White. One of the key parts in Rome falling apart was how the likes of Caesar kept extending Romanness to outsiders until everyone was a Roman (and so no one was a Roman). More importantly, their conquests of White Eurpoe as you call it happened when they were tribal federations.
>More importantly, their conquests of White Eurpoe as you call it happened when they were tribal federations. Which is basically most of the history of colonization as well. They weren't going to stop being tribal federations any time soon.
>>2435 Yeah, what's your point? The Actual Romans were White. Honkies. Doesn't matter how hard shitskins like Nicky Taleb LARP as them. The Rome that smashed Carthage until it was dead was a legitimate local identity rooted in BLOOD, not muh ideals or muh Constitution. To the extent that Roman-ness did not extend to those born out of sight of the city. This Rome smashed the Etruscan Kings and Carthage, then Greece and Egypt to boot. Rome was a dumpster when Rome was a no longer about blood but applied to anybody in the Empire who spoke Latin and believed in the Emperor. This Rome got its throat cut by the Germans and the rest of it got cleaned up by the Arabs.
>>2427 >The Roman Republic/Empire was a clown show of disastrous mismanagement and seeking to emulate it in any way is dumb. >>2433 >and they still managed to conquer White Europe. Absolutely correct. While it is true that organisation of the Roman empire was seriously lacking by modern standard, I've heard a history prof saying it's considered to be on par with modern Zimbabwe, for its time that was a milestone unparalled so far. If Romans had adressed their massive political and socio-economic internal imbalances, that is foremost to abandon their rabid self-destroying factionalism and the nepotism, and put their conduct on par with their spirit the empire would rule to this day. Their spirit should certainly be emulated.
>>2438 >that was a milestone unparalled so far. >I'm pretending places like India and Persia were never around
>>2439 >I don't know about Greek (sic) Sassanids and that actual Persia came into existence hundreds of years after Rome was founded >poo in the loo my ass t. history brainlet
>>2427 I was never saying to emulate Rome 100%, their mistakes, and Americas mistakes by extension, should not be repeated. In my opinion it's much better to not make the mistakes of our forebears and make our own instead at least then we will know we have tread new ground.
>>2440 Quit arguing and admit you just want power to obfuscated and for society to be all against all (which is what really happens in "Republican" society).

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