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Indo-European Religion / Paganism Thread Blackshirt 04/28/2020 (Tue) 19:39:58 ID: fe0edb No.10
Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Asatru, Rodnovery - whatever you like to study or even practice, post about ITT. Channels: Survive the Jive: https://www.youtube.com/user/ThomasRowsell DharmaNation: https://www.youtube.com/user/DharmaNation Partial ThuleanPerspective Archive: https://www.bitchute.com/channel/hhoe86QNkKLo/
>>5928 >New DharmaNation video that might be worth watching, Vanquishing the Tiger of the Kali Yuga At 22:15 he uses the term "Men Against Time", WEW This video was basically "The Lightning and the Sun" in speech form without overt references. We got a mention of Evola too, but he said that we must "vanquish the tiger", not ride it. Basically we must become men against time, as he literally said himself. At around 36:15 he starts mentioning revisionist history and how the true history of "our people" will be revealed, blaming cultural Marxists in academia. Based
>>3870 How would you describe Genghis Khan in the Lighting and the Sun context?
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>>6092 He's a Man in Time. Usually when this term is used people are using it to disparage lemmings, but Savitri Devi uses Genghis Khan as an example of a pure Man in Time, embodying "Lightning". This is pretty fitting, I think, because Genghis Khan seems to just have conquered to conquered, and to win glory and power for his "Golden Family". Unlike Hitler, who was lightning and sun, he had no higher goals towards race or nation, or the Natural Order. Devi identified him at points with Mahakala, all-devouring Time
>>6097 What are some good reads on Mahakala? Mahakala has been becoming a bit of an interest to me but alot of the information seems to just be some superficial stuff and not rituals or his mantras.
>>6265 I wish I could answer this question for you. After reading Devi's book I had my interested stoked in regards to Mahakala, but just like you I can hardly find any good information at all. I've read in one dictionary of religions that he represents Shiva in his destructive aspect, and also represents death. Beyond Hinduism he appears in Buddhism as a dharmapala or a door keeper of Buddha's temple, and is known among the Mongols as 'protector of the tent' (gur-gyi-mgnon-po). It's an interesting god, and I wish I could find more on him. You'd think that a deity of time, something like Chronos or Father Time, would play a much larger part than they usually do. Perhaps it just appeals to the wistful sensibilities I have though I will have to see if I can get an answer to this from someone here soon.
>>6270 Forgot to mention though that some of his mantras are based. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkY4rhWveJw
>>6271 love that Mantra, I listen to it along to this one https://youtu.be/W3EUTgrgXNc in the video you posted there was supposed to be an English translation in the description, but the link is 404 sadly.
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>>6275 Wow, I really like this one. From the recommendations to the side from clicking on your mantra I got recommended this video. It give a bit more info that you might find interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seD39kEvTLU
>>4138 >vaishnavism is an end of the world doomsday religion where attachment to the material world, your nation, and your race, are viewed negatively. >literally anti-14/88
>>4138 It seems to me that Krishna here is just relaying classical wisdom of the warrior path. The Hagakure, coming from a different standpoint, of course, also teaches not to worry about victory or death. What is crucial is action. Hitler fits into this legacy. He forged ahead regardless.
>>6580 >literally anti-14/88 very much so. i guess im the first to blow the whistle on this, i havent seen anyone else mention this. vedic knowledge on the nature of reality and the self, on society and politics, etc, can still be invaluable information for us. Be aware though that the end conclusion is just as poisonous as abrahamism. to where should we turn to for spiritual guidance for our people?
>>6864 I've been gravitating towards some of the types of ideas expressed in David Lane's 88 Precepts. He touches a little bit on spirituality within it. I think that the laws of Nature can provide much guidance for our people. And these are not just mechanistic laws, they are an expression of God, and nor is reality exhausted merely by matter. Looking into philosophy and the world around us is a good way to start thinking about what we should believe and what is the way forward for our people. My issue is that even if I think that the idea of intelligent design within Nature or that we are governed by the laws of Nature is very persuasive, I don't know if normalfags would be taken in by it in this bare form. The perfect system would take such facts that I have discussed above in this post (albeit in a more sophisticated and accurate way) and clothe it in various degrees of allegory and myth. It is more difficult for lemmings to have direct access to truth, so a more roundabout and tortuous route is required. The result may not be strictly true in itself, but would remain true in respect of the lofty meaning and profound truths contained within it. It's worth noting that many of the ideas of a "Natural Order", or Nature as a source of values and the like are all found within ancient pagan ideas and philosophy. I think about this issue a lot, and may be way off the mark, but the religious aspect is key to our movement, and few people understand this.
>>6868 Is the central basis for those precepts just the preservation of beautiful aryan women?
>>6874 It is much more intelligent than that. Read it for yourself, David Lane was a treasure. https://nationalvanguard.org/2013/06/the-88-precepts/
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If only we could bring back some practices of our ancestors such as the extraordinary trust and generosity they had towards strangers. This was what any pious man was expected to do. I am referring specifically to the practices of hospitality and guest friendship. Reading stuff like how Telemachus in the Odyssey was received and treated by his hosts and the practice of xenia in general is almost unbelievable to how people act today. Of course taking a guest in was taking a risk, as some stories of the Greeks show though. Something like this an only function in a high-trust society like we can hardly imagine. Such practices encourage cooperation and reciprocal generosity, and the stranger may pay this back in time. The whole community benefits. The Havamal stresses hospitality as well, showing that this appeared all over Europe: >Hail, ye Givers! a guest is come; >say! where shall he sit within? >Much pressed is he who fain on the hearth >would seek for warmth and weal. >He hath need of fire, who now is come, >numbed with cold to the knee; >food and clothing the wanderer craves >who has fared o'er the rimy fell. >He craves for water, who comes for refreshment, >drying and friendly bidding, >marks of good will, fair fame if 'tis won, >and welcome once and again. [...] >A guest must depart again on his way, >nor stay in the same place ever; >if he bide too long on another's bench >the loved one soon becomes loathed.
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https://www.youtube.com/user/VikingWidunder good sources for norse mythology?
>>7518 If you're talking about books there's of course this list here >>11. I kind of like Jackson Crawford's channel which focuses on the Norse language and myth too. https://www.youtube.com/c/JacksonCrawford/videos
>>7697 are there concepts and ideas from pre-christian european religions that could be used to guide the policy of the state?
>>7710 One could find, in a rather prosaic ways, many ideas at the core of the laws even up into the early medieval times. The Germanic and Celtic books would also help there. Admittedly, the range of sources is as broad as the question itself.
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What do you guys think of Marcus Aurelius? He wrote of many things that are often spoken about on this board such as living in accordance with one's own nature, and how this 'path' is coterminous with living in accordance with Nature / the Whole, constant change as a principle of the universe, and a view of the cosmos as an ordered whole preceding through cycles.
So why did the Romans exempt the Jews from worshiping their gods. Even in an Empire which has a history of BTFO'ing the Jews occasionally, we still see them getting special treatment.
http://honortheroots.com/basics-of-asatru/ >The ancient Northern Europeans viewed the soul in the exactly same way the Hellenic religion viewed the evolution of the soul. The goal of the soul was a natural evolution or progression. From human the soul has the possibility to become a hero. From hero the soul had the possibility of becoming a demi-god. From demi-god the soul could become a god and beyond. Can any of you confirm that they believed this?
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>>8396 Well, at the very least for now I can provide you some information on the dead in the Hellenic religion from the book 'Greek Religion' by Walter Burkert. In relation to Homeric beliefs, he says is that what leaves the body at the moment of death is the 'psyche', which means 'breath' in ancient Greek. The psyche enters the house of Hades. It is not a soul as a bearer of sensations and thoughts, nor the person. From the moment it leaves the dead it is also termed an eidolon, or a phantom image. They're a dreamlike form that is not tangible by mortals, they'd go right through them, but on appropriate occasions they can be seen. They're not conscious either. In the Odyssey they are unable to speak to Odysseus until they drink sacrificial blood from an animal. Despite this we see some people condemned to eternal punishments like Sisyphus and Tantalus The ultimate desire of the dead is for a proper burial. Again we can see evidence of this in the Odyssey, where Elpenor asks Odysseus for a proper burial so he can be at peace, and Patroclus begs Achilles for the same. On heroes, this book says that "In later usage, however, the hero is a deceased person who exerts from his grave a power for good and evil and who demands appropriate honor". A page or two later it is said that "Whoever has died is not a god; whoever is honored as dwelling in his grave in the earth must have been a mortal - preferably, of course, a mortal from that greater, earlier age. The gods are elevated as an exclusive group into an ideal Olympus; whatever is left behind is subsumed under the category of demigods". So basically it seems like no god is a hero, and no hero can be become a god. The amount of gods is fixed, but new heroes can arise whenever a family, cult association or city passes an appropriate resolution to bestow heroic honors. There was even a term "apheroizein", to heroicize. The only exceptions seem to have been Heracles (who already had Zeus as a father) and Dionysus (who was either fully divine in some myths, or a demi-god depending on the myth). There's some stuff on the philosophical religious debates that went on, but nothing seems to talk about "becoming a god" or evolving into a higher state of existence. There's talk of an immortal soul among these people, or that the soul is a small portion of god (as Diogenes of Apollonia said), but not much else. Based on some of the LARPy pics on that page I'm not very surprised.
>>8399 Whether he is wrong or right, it's still weird to lie or take this information as objective. Is there any sources or persons who might of believed that the soul would evolve?
>>8394 The Roman argument for allowing the jews to keep their atheism was because jews have been atheists since the founding of Rome and were therefore 'traditional atheists'. Roman Emperors eventually started putting their statues in the jewish temple and it was declared that when jews worship Yahweh they are worshiping Jupiter. In 130 Emperor Hadrian completely destroyed Jerusalem and built a temple dedicated to Jupiter and Venus (where the church of the holy sepulchre is today) and banned jews from entering the new city of Aelia Capitolina.
>>8414 You'd be surprised how much shit people are just willing to make up and pass as "totally traditional and exactly what our ancestors believed". The closest thing that I can think of is Hindus who say that the soul can be reborn with a physical body that is lower or higher due to karma, but the individual soul itself never "evolves", it is unchanging and eternal, and this spiritual core self is identical in all life. We know that this type of view did occur in Europe too, as among the Orphics and Pythagoreans who believed in reincarnation and a possibility of liberation, but again it seems like this is more of a return to one's true spiritual nature than any sort of "evolution"
>>8414 The whole evolving into a God thing doesn't even make sense. I don't think there's anything in the sagas or any info whatsoever that says it's possible for you to become a God, especially with the soul evolution thing that makes zero sense as well.
>>8399 >>8421 But don't Hindus and some Dharmists believe if you follow natural law and do good in life, you can become a God yourself?
>>8438 Yeah but it's different from what the one anon is asking about, see >>8418
>>8440 I'm a bit retarded today and still trying to comprehend this myself. So if the soul is unchanging and eternal and it's possible for a mortal to become a God. How does a mortal exactly become a God, it just doesn't make sense to me. Unless all souls are able to become Gods or something.
Just how powerful were Vedic/hindu, Hellenic, Norse, Celtic, etc Gods were? It's stated and seems like that Gods like Zeus and Odin weren't omipotent or All-powerful, but only contain supernatural abilities, but did they have the ability to create things out of reality or were they just really strong like in Marvel comics/movies?
>>8442 The gods in some of these systems have souls themselves, qualitatively identical with our own. Often, as I have heard, they too are mortal and subject to rebirth. This is especially true in Jainism and Buddhism, and I have heard this claimed by some in Hinduism too. In the varieties of Hinduism that I have read about (mainly Vaishnava) the gods have their source in God, or the Supreme Being. We can see this in Bhagavad Gita 10.2, where Krishna says: >Neither celestial gods nor the great sages know my origin. I am the source from which the gods and great seers come. This source spoken about above is the ground of all being, it's eternal and necessary reality. These lesser gods may be extremely powerful or live for millions of years, but they are not omnipotent or anything. These are the ones that people have a chance of being reborn as in these belief systems. You can't really become the Absolute though. The true self / atman originates from God, and are one with God, but are yet different from God. We're of the same substance, but finite and contingent. I'm not entirely satisfied with this response but after rewriting it a half a dozen times, this is at least passable in my mind, and hopefully it will clear up a few things. I pulled most of the info from Hindu stuff as it is likely clear, I didn't really even touch stuff in Europe. Also here's a video from a guy who basically says what I am saying here on the gods. It's worth watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_YU4fAWdC0 >>8466 Read the response above you in this post and it might clarify a things for you in a roundabout way. They definitely shouldn't be described as omnipotent, but were extremely powerful, far more than any (((Marvel))) character would be. It's worth noting that in some philosophies though Zeus was described in such a way that he hardly resembled the Zeus of myths. For example, just look at how many Stoics spoke of "Zeus": >For Epictetus, the terms ‘God’, ‘the gods’, and ‘Zeus’ are used interchangeably, and they appear frequently in the Discourses. In the Handbook, God is discussed as the ‘captain’ who calls us back on board ship, the subsequent voyage being a metaphor for our departure from life (see Handbook 7). God is also portrayed as ‘the Giver’ to whom we should return all those things we have enjoyed on loan when we lose close relatives or friends who die, and when we lose our possessions through misfortune >Stoics hold that the mind of each person is quite literally a fragment (apospasma) of God (see Discourses 2.8.11), and that the rationality that we each possess is in fact a fragment of God’s rationality; https://iep.utm.edu/epictetu/#SH4f Marcus Aurelius can be found saying similar things in his Meditations, where the governing principle of the world-order is variously referred to as Zeus, Nature, the Whole, Law, Fate, etc. He says like Epictetus that our rationality is a fragment of God, but he also talks about perfect gods which are concerned with human welfare, are able to read one's thoughts, never die, etc.
>>8469 Thank you for explaining and I hope the question wasn't embarassing with the whole marvel shit, I just needed an explanation and comparing and understanding the non abrahamics and abrahamics.
>>8524 No problem, anon. It's important to address the Marvel shit anyways since the Jews have co-opted and perverted the gods of our ancestors and turned them into a cashcow
vedic philosophy (hinduism) states the soul never changes and is part of god the same way a drop of water is part of the ocean. different sects have different opinions on whether ones true identity is god or only a part of god. all of them agree on that you can merge with god, but not all say that this is the meaning of existence. Jain philosophy states that the soul does change and that the meaning of existence is to evolve into a "perfected being" that is omnipotent and omniscient and travel upwards to a permanent realm where activity ceases. the philosophy of reincarnation and becoming "a god" in these religions is that the soul is distinct from the body, and according to your karma you can be born as an extremely powerful entity in a heavenly realm. there are multiple realms of heaven. this doesnt mean that you become a god like in mormonism, where you would go on to create your own universe or planet or whatever. "gods" and "heavens" are sort of poor translations. the abrahamic concept of heaven, a realm where you live a permanent spiritual existence with god is more similar to vaikuntha in vedic religion than devaloka(the vedic heavens). the vedic heavens are very much material realms just like this realm is and the beings that inhabit these realms (the gods) are just very powerful beings who live exquisite lives of paradisaical pleasure (they still experience suffering though, wars with the demons, etc). when their lifespan is over they go back to the cycle of reincarnation as we do. prabhupada made the analogy that becoming a god can be like being appointed a position in government where you are tasked to minister something under the orders of the supreme god (paramatman). knowing that the souls existence is eternal and having no end or beginning it isnt improbable that at one point all of us could have been gods in heaven and still eventually winded up here, the same idea is more or less true in jain philosophy.
>>344 >>345 I need to look into this guy more. That chart you posted in interesting > From eternity souls have different qualities or potentialities (different “aptitudes”). Because of the eternal difference in their qualities and potentialities, souls have different destinies. Some (those with “an innate aptitude for good”) are destined for various levels of bliss. Others (those with “an innate aptitude for evil”) are destined for different levels of suffering. (Thus Dvaita is one of the few Hindu schools with something like a doctrine of eternal damnation. Some souls are permanently bound to this world with its endless cycle of births and rebirths.) The important point is that these differences in the souls' qualities and potentialities (“aptitudes”) are determined by God's will. Hence, says Madhva, “The Lord is the real doer, and the cause of the soul's activity.” (Quoted in Lott: 114) Everything depends upon the divine will, and salvation is through grace alone. (It should be noted that Madhva's view was modified by some of his followers) https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/concepts-god/ >>8550 In light of what I posted above, am I right in remembering that Jainism too had the idea of souls that would never reach the highest stage of existence?
can vedanons bridge the atlantean (egypt/persian/indian religions[read alfred rosenberg[) to chaldean/gnostic/hermetic theology and thus to the christian? i have been struggling with the information and unable to make a proper compass. i think that this line of thought is what the collective masses here need
Redpill me on the reason for historical pagan "tolerance" of other religious traditions. To a certain extent I can mind discussion over certain issues, but to allow a free-for-all is simply nonsense in my mind. The Laws of Nature can be scrutinized and understood, making them more or less clear to people, but even though there can be debate over that, the Laws themselves are beyond change and dispute. I can't help but come to totalitarian conclusions here.
>>6271 God damn you have to chant all of what he says?!
>>8708 That video is some Vajyrayana Buddhist thing, I'm sure what exactly it is. Most mantras I've ever heard of are only a few words or lines long at most.
>>8709 But most mantras also require you to repeat lines for a million times to get them to work?
>>8712 It's usually repetition of one mantra
>>8717 It's usually repetitive of one mantra having to be said up to one to ten million times over and over again. You can only say a mantra over a hundred times and hour, meaning that not even within a year or two you will be able to chant the next mantra.
This post will put us at bump-limit. Any tips for the new OP or what I should include?
>>8585 Bridging jesus to india is easy and has already been laid out. Maybe look into the connections between judaism and vedic mythology. Abraham is the father of all jews and his wife is sarah. In vedic lore brahma is the creator god (at the behest of supreme god) and his wife is saraswati, there are more connections people have found, its easily searchable on the net.
>>8727 The Old Testament is little better than tribal god-worship. The real Vedic-esque stuff is when Jesus came, but the Jews were just too spiritually benighted to understand.
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>>8732 where did you get that video??? i
>>8778 That's some of my OC

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