/christian/ - Christianity

Discussion of Christianity, the Church, and theology

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John 3:16 KJV: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

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Anonymous 09/09/2023 (Sat) 08:09:57 ID: ef47c9 No.25466
Do you believe in Purgatory?
>>25469 Thanks
>>25466 I see nothing Biblical about the idea Anon.
>>25470 Y/w Anon. I severely truncated my original answer (and my newer rewrite), b/c after a few minute's study I realized I didn't understand the underlying scriptures-related as well quite as I'd thought before. :) >>25472
>>25473 I'll go ahead and add the scriptural reference I had intended to add about God's fairness & impartiality in judgment (which then led to my changed reply). https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+2:12-16&version=LSB
>>25466 I'll say it makes sense logically, how people who fall short of the glory of God can be in his presence. But scripture is mostly silent on it and the scripture used to support it apart from being apocrypha is contentious at best.
>>25476 In the Garden of Eden, Adam tried to cover his own sin, but God rejected Adam’s attempt, and provided him instead with a covering that required the death of an animal: “[7] And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.” “[21] Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.” Genesis 3:7, 21 KJV >I'll say it makes sense logically, how people who fall short of the glory of God can be in his presence. “[6] But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” Isaiah 64:6 KJV “[21] But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; [22] Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: [23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” Romans 3:21-23 KJV “[6] Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,” Romans 4:6 KJV “[30] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. [31] But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.” Romans 9:30-31 KJV “[3] For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.” Romans 10:3 KJV “[5] For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.” Galatians 5:5 KJV “[9] And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:” Philippians 3:9 KJV We all fall short of the glory of God. Even what is righteousness in man’s eyes is filthy rags in God’s eyes. Just like God provided a covering for Adam and Eve that he would accept, he has provided a covering for us in Jesus Christ. When God looks at someone who has trusted in Jesus, he sees the righteousness that he has imputed, not what we presently are, in the flesh.
Purgatory as defined by the Vatican is the fairest thing.
The concept of Purgatory, a place of temporal punishment, comes from 1 Cor 3:13, 15 and dates back to the Council of Lyons in 1245. "10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames."
>>25571 That there, that's proof that you will feel morose when the house you tried to build for good retained some sin and was burned. What that is not proof of is a whole other universe on top of the canon/doctrine you have already established. I get that fighting an Italiano-German emperor is scary but that doesn't explain why you would make a really big extrapolation doctrinally. You would think that I could find arguments both for and against, spoken succinctly and decisively in the meeting at Lyon with either evidence for their case, given the thing's significance. But all I can find reference for are those things decreed, and basically nothing for their evidence or rationale. What was said after the fact? Did it become 'this must be right because the previous council said so'?

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