>>24046 I like St. Patrick but I don't much care for St. Patrick's Day, at least not as it's celebrated in America. Unless you live in an Irish-American enclave or are in Chicago or New York where there may be actual festivities it's just an excuse to get drunk on Irish whiskey and Guinness, which for me is probably the last thing I need right now. If you want to eat your once-a-year serving of corned beef hash, be my guest, but I don't think I'll be participating.

>>24047 I was confused by this question until you reminded me this is a thing in America. How did that happen? Was it commercialism like St. Valentine's day or was it popularised by actual Irish? St. Patrick is mostly known for his defence of the trinitarian doctrine and conversion of the Irish. Make it a day celebrating that.

>>24048 >Was it commercialism like St. Valentine's day or was it popularised by actual Irish? In big cities with substantial Irish populations I'm pretty sure it was the actual Irish who popularized it, but it's devolved over many decades into being this day where people dress up as leprechauns and take part in vaguely Irish activities like drinking liquor and eating food that's been dyed green. I have no idea how it's observed in Ireland or elsewhere in the world, if at all. >St. Patrick is mostly known for his defence of the trinitarian doctrine and conversion of the Irish. Make it a day celebrating that. That's a good way of looking at it.

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>>24048 >How did that happen? For most Americans, St. Patrick's Day is the last vestige of their Irish heritage they still celebrate and cling to. Over the years, because Americans forgot everything that made them Irish, St. Patrick's Day celebrations and the Irish-Americans themselves became a gross, cartoonish self-caricature. Somewhere along the way they lost respect for themselves, and thus lost respect for St. Patrick's Day. >Was it commercialism like St. Valentine's day or was it popularised by actual Irish? Sure, commercial companies capitalized on it. But I think the root of the problem is deeper: spiritual Americanization. Regarding the popularization of St. Patrick's Day, the cult around St. Patrick developed in Ireland around the 600s or so. It became and official church Holiday in Ireland in about the 1100s. To compare it with American holidays, these days in Ireland it's sort of like a mix between Thanksgiving and Independence Day. Today Ireland is growing increasingly secular and irreligious, like the rest of the Western world. Thus Patrick is not so much celebrated for bringing Christianity to Ireland as he is instead for bringing *civilization* to Ireland. And St. Patrick's Day is, after all, Ireland's National Day. This is a recent development though, starting really only in the 1960s in Ireland. The religious aspect isn't totally gone though, that's why st.patricks day is still has this quiet respectful tone in Ireland despite the celebations. >St. Patrick is mostly known for his defence of the trinitarian doctrine and conversion of the Irish. Make it a day celebrating that. Never going to happen in our secular world.

>>24070 Isn't the supposed "justification" for being debauched on St. Patrick's Day that his intercession allowed Christians to take a break during Lent?

>>24070 "irish" americans are less irish thsan the average englishman

the Guinness family of fame and renown, whose brewery is of much note and honour, were Protestants for your information

>>24073 >"irish" americans are less irish thsan the average englishman Yeah it's not that simple, mate. I'm not going to defend the ignorant, cringey behavior that gets played up on T.V. Nevertheless, there is a living cultural continuity present in America, like it or not. But this is the internet so I'm not going to change your mind anyway.

>>24071 Hmm... I've never heard that before. St. Patrick's Day is a Holy Day of Obligation in Ireland, and feast days cannot simultaneously be a day of fasting. But I understand that as more a coincidence than an act of his intercession because Patrick's died on 17 March. There is no extant record or myth that I've encountered to say he died specifically during Lent to provide the Irish a relief during the 40 days. Even if the intercession justification were true, that would only count in Ireland. St. Patrick's Day is not a Holy Day of obligation outside of Ireland. Or at least not in America, anyway.

>>24078 >Even if the intercession justification were true, that would only count in Ireland. St. Patrick's Day is not a Holy Day of obligation outside of Ireland. Or at least not in America, anyway. I think St. Patrick's Day is a first class feast day in dioceses which have St. Patrick as their patron. Even in other dioceses where he is not, it's not too uncommon for bishops to grant a dispensation to eat meat because I suppose the faithful cannot go without their corned beef.