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John 3:16 KJV: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


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Repentance? Anonymous 01/14/2023 (Sat) 23:00:54 ID: 277326 No.23432
Has the definition of "repent" been changed over time? Should "repenting of sin" be included when preaching the Gospel? Does it turn the free gift of salvation into a works-based program, denying that Christ's life, death, and resurrection was sufficient to reconcile us to God? I used the following Bible word search website as a resource to find every time the word "repent" was used in the KJV Bible: https://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/kjv/simple.html In the Bible, the word "repent" is used 112 times. Forty-six times in the Old Testament, and sixty-six times in the New Testament (I've excluded its apocryphal uses). Out of 112 times, only five times was it used in reference to "repenting of sin", and never used that way in regard to the Gospel or eternal salvation. Contextually, it commonly means one of the following three things: -Changing one's mind (whether God or man); -Being grieved inwardly (may include regretting); and/or -Turning from worshipping idols to worshipping God Examples of God repenting (many cases, only a few listed for brevity. Some uses are God deciding a different course of action, some are Him being grieved): >"And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart." -Gen.6:6 >"And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people." -Exod.32:14 >"...and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel." 1Sam.15:35 Examples of repenting meaning "turning to believing the truth (from falsehoods or idolatry)" (these are most used in reference to eternal salvation): >"For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him." -Matt.21:32 'Repenting' meaning 'believing John the Baptist'. >"And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel." -Mark.1:15 'Repent' meaning 'believe the gospel' >"And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." -Luke.16:30-31 'Repent' meaning 'being pursuaded to believe the truth'...
>>23432 (cont.) >"Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." -Acts.11:17-18 'Repentance' meaning 'ability to believe the gospel and be saved'. >"Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead." Acts.17:29-31 'Repent' meaning 'turning from graven idols to believing in Jesus'. >"Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." Acts.19:4 The 'baptism of repentance' was a command to believe in Jesus. >"Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." Acts 20:21 'Repentance toward God' meaning, 'turning from idols/falsehoods to worship God'. >"In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;" 2Tim.2:25 'Repentance' meaning 'ability to acknowledge the truth' >"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God," -Heb.6:1 'Repentance' meaning 'turning from works to faith in God'. >"I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent." Rev.2:2-5 A church with good works, discernment, patience, and no sins listed save 'leaving its first love'... is told to repent or lose its place. Were they so busy with good works that they forgot why they were doing them (i.e.: their love for Jesus)?...
>>23433 (cont): Every example of the word "repent" in regards to sin: >"And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed." -2Cor.12:21 This would be one of the only five examples I could find of 'repenting' in regard to sin; however, this is a letter to a church of believers. These people are already saved. This isn't part of the Gospel, it's part of discipleship. >"I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds." -Rev.2:19-22 This is Jesus' message to a church of believers. These people are already saved. This isn't part of the Gospel, it's part of discipleship and chastisement. >"Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent." -Rev.3:3 This could be in reference to both sin and correct doctrine. This is Jesus' message to a church of believers. These people are already saved. This isn't part of the Gospel, it's part of discipleship and chastisement. >"And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts." Rev.9:20-21 >"And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds." Rev.16:9-11 These verses are similar. The first repentance referenced in each is turning (changing mind) from worshipping idols. The second repentance is a good example of repenting of sins, however it's not part of the "everlasting gospel" preached to these men in Rev.14:6-7. They were commanded to "Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters". They were not commanded to "repent of their sins". It's just a true statement to show why their punishment is just.
>>23432 >>23433 The original Greek word used in the gospels is metanoia which refers more to a spiritual transformation. When it was translated into Latin the word used was penitentia from which we got our English repent. There is a flaw in the Latin term and the English usage that was derived from it because it frames repentance as being centered around punishment and clemency rather than reformation. Interestingly the Protestant Reformers actually recognized this and if you look at the Geneva version, the precursor to the King James Version, they used the word "converted" to translate metanoia rather than the traditional repent, as the medieval church instituted a whole system of penititential works around the concept that they sought to cut through to return to a more pure gospel message.
>>23432 >Should "repenting of sin" be included when preaching the Gospel? Yes, but only if repentance is fully understood. When you repent of a thing you 1. Stop doing thing 2. Recognize thing as sin and abhor it 3. Stop trying to justify having done thing in the past 4. Actively reject the temptation to do thing ever again It has nothing to do with paying money or tribute or honor to any man or organization made by men. Those are abuses. Even abstract acts of penance are questionable. At best they are as Matthew 6:16 "When you fast, do not be somber like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they already have their full reward." At worst they seek to preempt the judgement of God and deny His mercy. Repentance is best explained by Romans 12:2 "Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind." >Does it turn the free gift of salvation into a works-based program, denying that Christ's life, death, and resurrection was sufficient to reconcile us to God? Salvation is not a free gift. You must believe that God raised Jesus Christ from the dead and you must stop sinning. Both are a form of repentance. Then, when you are ready, God will give you works to do according to the measure of your faith and ability. But these works will be a joy, serving the living God, rather than the obligated misery of human penitence. There is already enough suffering in this world without inflicting it upon ourselves.
>>23441 >Salvation is not a free gift. It was the costliest gift that ever was, or will be. But it was paid for by God with the blood of his only Son. He gives it freely to us: 1)"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." -Eph.2:8-9 2)"But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." -Rom.5:15-19 3)"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" -Rom.3:24 4)"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." -Rom.3:28 5)"And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely." -Rev.21:6 6)"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." -Rev.22:17 >4. Actively reject the temptation to do thing ever again By that definition, the apostle Paul was unrepentant: "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do." -Rom.7:19 "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" -Rom.7:24 >Repentance is best explained by Romans 12:2 Here Paul was speaking to believers. He was discipling, not preaching the gospel. Encouraging brothers in Christ to live holy lives is perfectly fine. Making it a condition of salvation is not. Read Romans 4:3-8. Our righteousness is an imputed righteousness. God chooses to see us as righteous because we're in Christ, but without that covering, let's not delude ourselves and call God a liar... we're not righteous at all.
>>23445 It seems you misunderstand, or perhaps I misunderstood you. A 'free gift' implies it's available to anyone without obligation like a pack of tissues handed out in the street. My point is that there is an obligation. Not to live according to the sinful nature but according to the spirit. You have written an awful lot of words trying to convince us of something but what that thing is is not clear to me. Can you state your views on repentance succinctly?
>>23448 After reading every one of those 112 scriptures, I'm thinking "repentance" as used in the Bible regarding salvation is referring to faith alone in Jesus. I would agree that you have to believe God raised Jesus from the dead, but I don't see any scriptures that make one's salvation additionally-contingent upon a cessation from sin. Every saved person should strive to live a holy life free from sin, and this the epistles entreat us; but even if we don't: "...to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." -Rom.4:5. For the longest time, I assumed repentance meant "turning from sin", or what the common parlance of our day defines it as. How many evangelists on TV and radio would always add "turn from sin" to the promise of this "free gift"? If you have to turn from sin to be saved, then it's not a free gift. That kind of obligation is a mountain so tall we could never climb over it. It's so disheartening that you couldn't even call such a gospel "good news". But the real good news is that even though we all die because of Adam's transgression, we believers will all have eternal life because of Jesus' righteousness.
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>>23441 If you don't accept that you have been called to salvation by God in your heart, attempting to live in the spirit on human terms is futile. You have to recognize that Christ as Lord has the power to purify your being of your sins through His atoning sacrifice first as the good news on which you premise your repentance. Unless you set your hope on faith in the truth of His resurrection, victory over death, and the certainty of His coming Kingdom, you'll immiserate yourself over your individual powerlessness over sin, despair that you have too much sin such that no amount of repentance will ever be enough, and set yourself up for failure in worldly mindedness. "If for this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are of all men most to be pitied," as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:19. "But in fact," he continues, "Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep... Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 'For God has put all things in subjection under his feet.'" 1 Corinthians 20, 23-27; and furthermore "For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: 'Death is swallowed up in victory.' 'O death, where is thy victory? O death, where is thy sting?' The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain." 1 Corinthians 15:52-58 Amen.

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