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I'm pagan leaning towards christianity Anonymous 09/17/2022 (Sat) 19:13:42 ID: 59ba55 No.18177
So, I'm a pagan that has recently become pretty pro christian out of my own "epiphany" or "revelation" of sorts. I pretty much support all the fundamentals of christianity and I'll tell you why I support these fundamentals. >it's anti-cheating (for a lack of a better term) It brings real emotional and psychological harm to faithful partners in a relationship. Marriage and having sex only inside marriage makes it extremely easy to "weed out" unfaithful partners. >it's anti-porn and anti-masturbation It's as harmful to your brain as heroine, it lowers your testosterone levels, and keeps people from finding a mate. I think I'm fucking done masturbating. I haven't done so for the last 2 weeks. Nothing good can come from it and it's not going to hurt me to not do it. >it's anti-homosexual The only good things gays produce is the molestation of little boys and the spreading of disease, which is in fact nothing good at all. The only thing I can come up with is that gays need to be killed. If we just kick them out, we'd just be handing the problem to someone else. And if we imprisoned them we'd either be condoning that kind of depravity with them fucking each other when the guards aren't looking, or solitary confinement which is no life to live at all. >It's selfless and anti materialistic Being selfless is what makes any healthy society. You could have all the wealth in the world and that's not going to make you happy. What does however make people happy is reproducing with a loving partner and being selfless. >it's anti usury Usury is the process of making money off interest on loans. Gaining money from nothing is exactly what the jews are doing to us now through the banks. To tell you the truth, for the last couple years I used to hate christianity with an absolute passion, railing against it on imageboards in fact. If I continue to think that christianity is jewish and rejecting christians version of events, I mise well be saying that there is no hope for people at all. I also find it fishy that jews are promoting islam over christianity if christianity was indeed jewish. And the fact that christianity and it's doctrines are fundamentally healthy for society. Don't get me wrong though, I still think christians were way too harsh on christians and 'pagans' than christians were against the jews.
What kind of pagan? Hindu, african animist, shamanist or f*minist witch?
>>18178 None of them. I more or less just admire ancient roman gods
>>18179 You're not pagan. You're just history geek.
>>18177 >CTRL+F "God" >Zero results So do you even believe in God, and all of the prophecies for Jesus, and the resurrection, or are you just trying to create a checklist of what (you) like socially, politically and historically and to adopt a religion as a front for that? Not saying that you having those values is bad, of course, but pagans and many adjacent to them online are solely concerned with political and social ramifications of doctrines and systems rather than believing that God is real, and wanting to learn His will. > Don't get me wrong though, I still think christians were way too harsh on christians and 'pagans' than christians were against the jews. Christians are harsh on heretics because wrong understandings of God will lead you into hell. Even worse with pagans. The idea that pagans were completely and utterly debased is false, but they definitely gave place into their society to sodomy, pederasty, idol worship and other satanic and superstitious practices. The extirpation of all of this was a blessing. You're ridiculous if you think that Jews had it easy in Christian societies, though. Too many /pol/ users are just mad that Christianity doesn't support outright genociding a group.
>>18182 >So do you even believe in God and all of the prophecies for Jesus, and the resurrection, I honestly do not know. I'm reevaluating myself and my beliefs. I definitely don't hate you. I'm thinking about believing in all of it, but I'm just not sure yet. >many adjacent to them online are solely concerned with political and social ramifications of doctrines and systems You're delusional if you think pagans in the past willingly converted to christianity without thinking of the benefits of adopting it. >Christians are harsh on heretics because wrong understandings of God will lead you into hell. Ok fine. But, is having a few minor misinterpretations here and there really going to send someone to hell? I honestly believe some christian countries just used it as an excuse to plunder other christian countries. >but they definitely gave place into their society to sodomy, Not all of them were though. Germanic pagans pre christianity threw homosexuals into the bogs. And jews today try to say that those very pagans were "celebrating them" by executing them. What a joke. >Too many /pol/ users are just mad that Christianity doesn't support outright genociding a group I'm not for that at all, no. What I am for though is absolute imprisonment of all jews for life separating the males and females from each other. Praying doesn't work for them anon, if it did, judaism would be a dead religion. To you, they are the very people who killed christ. I think christians need to stop acting like they are anything but the killers of christ.
>>18177 At this point, you should pray to God for guidance, seek out a theologically sound Christian church and start attending. Asking the pastor and other Christians there, questions.
Know that God HATES pagans
>>18197 I guess I will. I have nothing to lose and if rainbow flags or on or inside the building, that would be easy to steer away from. Problem is, I don't know exactly what constitutes as a "theologically sound" church. Is the mormon church a theologically sound church? Exclusion of blacks from the church does appeal to me
I also don't know how to pray to god for guidance. I have no idea what I am doing. Also, I'm I right in saying that the Old Testament isn't 100% the word of god? For example, Jesus Christ himself is not for physical circumcision, yet in the Old Testament it says you should be. I don't know why god would come down to earth himself if this wasn't (at least partially) true. That's like the only way I know how to reconcile some supposed contradictions between the OT and NT
OP posting from work. Like, I want to believe christians but I feel I am in need of guidance. Christians in real life have also been nothing but good to me
>>18177 Well done on the nofap and good luck. You should pay attention to this post >>18182 Your religion shouldn't be selected from a list based on how much it conforms to your existing social and political beliefs. Christianity is not about achieving a better society here on Earth. It merely does so as a natural consequence. Christianity is about our relationship with God and our restoration/lifting up to what we were created to be. It's about being fixed. You can think of it like we're robots and our manufacturer is trying to fix a serious, systematic malfunction in us. Of course, if our relationship with God is restored, we're going to be able to relate to each other better as well. It's just all part of the fixing. The fixing is a lifelong process though (longer if you believe there's some kind of purgatory) so that's why we're still not very good at it. It is said that politics is downstream from culture. Well both are downstream from religion. All the benefits of Christianity you described are nothing more than the runoff from the overflowing cup that is God's grace to us. I want you to direct your attention to the cup. >>18185 It's true that a component to the conversion of Europe was the advantages a ruler could get out of it in terms of social order. It's also true that many people refused to give up the faith in the face of disadvantage and were brutally tortured and killed for it. Guess which people are remembered. Or let me put it this way: Are you more likely to take something seriously if people genuinely and devoutly believe it or if they hold to it out of social convenience? The question that needs to be asked here is are you interested in Christianity because society needs help or because you need help? I'm not asking who needs the most help objectively, I'm asking which is your primary motive. There's a saying in the gym: don't focus on what I'm doing, focus on what you're doing. That applies quite well.
>>18199 You don't have to stick to the first church you step foot in. Just go to one. Here's a list of relatively "normal" churches in alphabetical order so I don't prejudice you. >Anglican >Baptist >Catholic >Lutheran >Methodist >Orthodox (Greek, Russian, Antioch etc) >Presbyterian >Uniting (usually a combination of other Protestant churches) Some of these might be known by different names like "Reformed" or whatever. I don't necessarily think all of these are adequate churches but this will get your foot in the door. The alternative to this is we all have a huge shitfling at each other over whose church is the real one which would be most unhelpful to you. >>18200 Praying will feel awkward at first. You have two main options: freeform where you just talk to God either out loud or in your head, or using set prayers like the Lord's prayer. Both have their advantages and disadvantages so I recommend trying both. When you pray, make an actual thing of it and try to remain focused. Things to pray about... I think the best thing for you to pray about at the moment is what you've been talking about here. Ask God to make your path clearer and to give you understanding of Christianity. >am I right... Stop viewing Christianity as a list of rules to follow and think more about relationship. This will help you understand both the New and Old Testament. Look for the reason behind the laws and commandments and remember Christ's words that all the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments: to love God with all your heart and to love your neighbour as yourself. Again - relationships. One more thing I should say is that God loves his creations. I think that should go without saying but you never know...
>>18200 This guy... >>18202 >>18205 ...covers the basics very well. The only thing I'd like to add is that a quick and efficient way to deduce if a church is doctrinally sound is to check their website. Their website will usually have a section named something like "Doctrinal Statement" or "Statement of Faith" or "What we believe." Here are some essentials you should look out for in that section: The Bible: They should affirm the Bible as the Divinely Inspired and Infallible Word of God. Anything less, like viewing it as a flawed book made by men, or only relevant to it's cultural context, should make you run for the hills. God The Father, Jesus The Son, The Holy Spirit, etc.: They should be a Trinitarian church that affirms the Holy Trinity. They should have a statement on the fallen nature of man, and our need for Christ for salvation and hope. They should affirm that Jesus Christ is God in the Flesh, who is God and man without division or confusion, who was born of the Virgin Mary, lived a sinless life, suffered and died on the cross, and was resurrected for our salvation, and sits at the right hand of the Father to come once again in judgement. Should state that those who reject Christ are resurrected to eternal damnation, while those who embrace Christ are resurrected unto eternal life. Some will also have a doctrinal statement on marriage, affirming it is between a man and a woman. Each church's statement may be worded a little differently here and there, but the above should be some of the general green flags you should keep an eye out for, while viewing the opposite of these positions as red flags. Don't be turned off necessarily if a church does not have a statement like this, but be sure to ask questions and find out what their doctrinal positions are. Remember: just because you visit a church, doesn't mean you are under any obligation to join. Visit as many churches as you wish, and attend a church without joining as long as you like; all the while praying to God for guidance and discernment. The church you join is going to become your family, so be sure to make your decision based on their doctrine, as well as the general character of the congregation (i.e. Do the congregants in general have good morals? Do they take Christianity seriously? etc.) At the same time, do not be a perfectionist looking for flawless people. The Christian Church is a spiritual hospital for broken sinners (i.e. all of us) not a club for the morally perfect. God Bless in your journey.
>>18199 Also, here is a list of some of the most essential Christian creeds that will give you a firm foundation in Christianity 101: https://justdisciple.com/christian-creed/ Pay particular attention to the first four, and number eleven, twelve and thirteen. Those will equip you with the basics to discern a theologically sound church.
>>18177 It seems you were always culturally Christian to begin with, such things don't perturb pagans
There is a fundamental which you forgot: faith. We offer nothing without faith, for if our faith is false then we of all people are most to be pitied. We believe that all men have sinned against God and earned His enmity, and out of tremendous unthinkable grace and mercy He reconciled His people to Himself by nailing their sins to the cross. So all who believe now have peace with God through Christ, despite the gravity of their sins in blaspheming His holy name and worshipping those which by nature are not gods. And after securing the salvation of His people Christ rose from the dead and ascended into heaven triumphant, taking His throne at the Father's right hand, now appointed Lord of every nation in fulfillment of His previous promise that "In those days Yahweh will be King of all the earth, and Yahweh will be the only one and His name the only one". This then is the only reason why we defy the world and command them to repent even though they slander us, insult us, injure us, isolate us, and slaughter us all day long, because Christ is King and He must reign until every enemy has been placed under His feet. In the words of the faithful ancient Christian Polycarp when he chose to burn to death rather than say a few words which deny the Lord, "I have served Him these last 86 years and He has done me no wrong, how can I betray my King and Savior?" Without faith in the Risen Lord, without happy submission to Him as our Master, and without endless gratitude for which we oath ourselves to His service even unto death because of the endless kindness He has shown us, we have nothing to offer to anyone, because we would have no courage, no power and no truth.
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>>18210 >It seems you were always culturally Christian to begin with, such things don't perturb pagans Definitely not. I use to be ok with homosexuality and was an anarchist in high school thanks to the absolute shit public schooling system. It's thanks to imageboards of why I believe those things. Educating myself about the holohoax was one of the first things that helped me debrainwash myself. >>18205 >Stop viewing Christianity as a list of rules to follow and think more about relationship. This will help you understand both the New and Old Testament. Look for the reason behind the laws and commandments and remember Christ's words that all the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments: to love God with all your heart and to love your neighbour as yourself. Again - relationships. So basically, my study and worship of Christ will give me the answers I'm looking for? >One more thing I should say is that God loves his creations. I think that should go without saying but you never know... He didn't seem to like Leviathan very much. >>18202 >Are you more likely to take something seriously if people genuinely and devoutly believe it or if they hold to it out of social convenience? I'd definitely want to be surrounded by people who genuinely believe what they preach. If it's out of social convenience then it's just plastic. I think there are way too many plastic people in society. >The question that needs to be asked here is are you interested in Christianity because society needs help or because you need help? There's a saying in the gym: don't focus on what I'm doing, focus on what you're doing. That applies quite well. Both. Absolutely both. But if I was pushed into a corner, I'd definitely say myself. It is my belief that you must improve yourself before you can improve others. >>18208 >The church you join is going to become your family That sounds very nice. I also want to start an actual family as well. Maybe through my faith in Christ I will I find a wife and children.
>>18185 >I'm reevaluating myself and my beliefs. I definitely don't hate you. I'm thinking about believing in all of it, but I'm just not sure yet. In reference to believing in God, the most important thing you can do is to pray right now, more than any amount of research or rationalistic deliberation of things (not that those are bad per se). Matthew 7:7-11 and Luke 18:1-8 are relevant to this, and very true. >You're delusional if you think pagans in the past willingly converted to christianity without thinking of the benefits of adopting it Works without faith are dead is the point here. God wants you to love Him and know Him. It doesn't matter if pagans converted for social benefits, if they didn't have faith in God, this was all in vain. Of course though, many may come for benefits, and find faith. And this is in itself not a bad thing. >Not all of them were though. Germanic pagans pre christianity threw homosexuals into the bog Correct, this is explained in Romans chapters 1 and 2. Even pre-Christian pagans had the law of God written on their hearts, and had some idea of good and evil, but many suppressed the truth in unrighteousness, exchanged the Creator for the creation, and were given up to debased passions and a reprobate mind as a result of their error, forgetting the true God, and worshiping demons such as Thor, Odin, etc. >What I am for though is absolute imprisonment of all jews for life separating the males and females from each other. This is a view you would have to repent of if you became a Christian, because we wish that the Jews themselves repent of their rebellion against the Lord, and come to embrace their Messiah who their ancestors nailed to the cross. >praying doesn't work for them anon Nonsense. >To you, they are the very people who killed christ. Those people lived 2,000 years ago and Christ himself forgave them as they drove nails into His hands. I would have crucified Jesus if I were there too.
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>>18199 >Is the mormon church a theologically sound church? No, they are pagans and follow a pedophile conman much like how Muslims follow Muhammad, another pedophile conman who was approached by an 'angel of light' (demon). >>18200 >Also, I'm I right in saying that the Old Testament isn't 100% the word of god? Nope. The OT is 100% the word of God. > For example, Jesus Christ himself is not for physical circumcision, yet in the Old Testament it says you should be Jesus Christ Himself was circumcised and kept the Law of Moses. It was the Son of God Himself who gave Moses the tablets of the Law on Sinai. The New Covenant is foretold in Jeremiah 31:31. Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the OT prophecies. Jesus' foremost teachings are directly from Deuteronomy and Leviticus - Lev. 19:18, Deut. 6:5. Baptism is the replacement of circumcision for Christians.
>>18229 >This is a view you would have to repent of if you became a Christian, because we wish that the Jews themselves repent of their rebellion against the Lord, and come to embrace their Messiah who their ancestors nailed to the cross. I don't think that is the case. Christians have historically forced jews to live in ghettos which were more or less open air prisons. I'm not saying we should allow them to keep their faith, I am saying they can repent while being behind bars or in labor camps. I'm also not saying we should treat them harshly either. They can have basic luxeries while imprisoned f they chose not to work, if they do work, then they can be paid equal pay for equal work. All I'm advocating for is that you actually learn from your mistakes. Jews by and large do not convert, and if they do "convert" they usually just chose to keep being a jew inwardly and a christian outwardly
>>18238 You need to read Romans 11.
>>18257 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what [a]fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what [b]communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you[c] are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people.” 17 Therefore “Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you.” 18 “I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the Lord Almighty.”
>>18264 This has nothing to do with my post.
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>>18285 And how doesn't it? You said I'd have to repent for holding those feelings of wanting to put all jews in jail, in other words separating them from the rest of the population. If what I say isn't true, then how come Judaism is as strong as ever in Europe while all pagan faiths are dead? Jews don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves and gladly genocide nonjews if they can get away with it. They have even killed and drinked the blood of nonjews in ritualistic murder, but we're supposed to believe that the children of satan can be swayed with words. They are undoubtedly the most horrendous liars on earth, who lied about the Holocaust and countless other atrocities. Your head is so far up your own ass in the modern idea of christianity that you cannot see why those very ideas are exactly what lead to this mess that is society. Which all sprouts from protestantism. Christians in the middle ages undoubtedly would have burned me at the stake for even 1/10 of the shit I've said on imageboards about christianity. Modern christianity is by and large lolberg pussy shit.
>>18286 Right now you are more consumed with how Christianity can deal with Jews in a utilitarian manner, than by the love and pursuit of Christ. Also, it isn't about swaying with words, but of the power of the Holy Spirit to change hearts, including yours. You must be born again of the Holy Spirit. As the other anon said, you should be focusing on prayer and church right now in order to be born again of the Holy Spirit. Only by being born of the Holy Spirit can you be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect: “"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." Mt 5:43–48. That's the thing, even if jailing and separating Jews is the solution, would you do it out of hate for them, or out of love for them? Look at the example of the first Christian Martyr, Stephen. Notice what he says as Jews are literally throwing rocks at him until he dies from blunt force trauma: 51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. 52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers, 53 who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it.” 54 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!” 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Ac 7:51–60. That's the thing. Jews may be especially wicked and corrupt, but God still loved us while we were wicked and corrupt, and thus to be Christ-like, we must have that level of love towards even those who hate us with their entire being. A Human will towards trying to be "good" will never accomplish this. Only by being born again of the Holy Spirit. Only by God's grace can we even somewhat approach this level of love. 6 "For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Ro 5:6–8. This is what Jesus said regarding those who murdered Him, as they were literally in the process of murdering Him: 34 Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.” Lk 23:34.
>>18290 ye are of the father the devil What did he mean by this?
>>18290 >That's the thing, even if jailing and separating Jews is the solution, would you do it out of hate for them, or out of love for them? It's out of hatred for the religion of Judaism, and of out of love because it's the most humane thing I can think of in dealing with them. If we locked them up and gave them the gospel, they'd have a much better chance to be saved as they can't perpetuate evil against the gentiles. It is the only solution without bloodshed that I can think of that will uproot evil. They can atone for all they have done in jail.
>>18292 All who disobey God are of the devil. This is scriptural. Jesus even says if they were truly children of Abraham in the spirit, that they would do the works of Abraham, as did Peter, Paul, John, Mary, etc. and all of early Christians who were Jews, and were thus truly of Abraham.
>>18294 And yet, Jesus was talking about pharisiac jews.
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I'm trying to believe but I'm still so very afraid that christianity is second class judaism. I recently watched Adam Greens video and it's reignited my fears. Please ease my fears anons, please I beg of you.
>>18290 Excellent post. The Christian answer to evil is not our own evil. The Christian answer to hatred is not to hate back. I must draw a sharp distinction between two things. Righteous anger is OK. It is good to be angry at evil. That sense welling within you when you see injustice or abuse: this is wrong. Never let anyone tell you to lay down and surrender to evil. But hatred is something different. Hatred is that intemperate desire to see someone destroyed. Regarding an enemy - what is the ideal resolution? It's that he stops his actions and ceases to be your enemy, right? Better yet if he becomes your ally. Killing your enemy must be seen as a compromise: a second-rate solution to the problem. Not only have you deprived yourself of a potential friend down the line but you may have merely replaced one enemy with another. Or do you think the death of a person affects no one? We Christians do not win by the destruction but the conversion of our enemies. Christ explicitly taught that we are to love our enemies. Now if hatred means to desire destruction, then love must mean to desire good. But what does this mean practically speaking? If we desire good for someone, it doesn't mean we desire that they succeed in everything they do. If the person is trying to do something evil, it cannot be loving to desire the success of that evil. Does any loving person want their beloved to be consumed by evil? Love must desire actual good. That is, it must desire the person to become a better person. When we love our enemies, we want them to repent of their evil that cuts them off from others and from God. We want them to come to their senses, so to speak. To just stop. Notice how when Jesus and the martyrs were being killed, they called on God to not hold it against them. In other words, to give them another chance to repent. By no means should this be taken as wanting their killers to be able to kill more Christians. It means they wanted their killers to have the chance to choose not to kill any more. We don't live in an ideal world and often a less-than-ideal solution is required. Physical separation of the offending party is better than letting them commit evil freely and unrepentantly in your community. It also leaves the door open for their eventual coming-around. Killing them, I think, should be a last resort for when all other attempts fail. The point is that these should be seen as half-solutions and we ought to be sad that a better solution was not possible. That's why we should not rush to these things but give our enemies every chance to repent. The difference is not necessarily a difference in action but in mentality. Do you crush your enemies with great sorrow that you're forced to, or do you gleefully crush them because fuck 'em? >>18216 >So basically, my study and worship of Christ will give me the answers I'm looking for? Pretty much except I would put it as the practice of Christianity will help you understand it more deeply. >Both. Absolutely both. But if I was pushed into a corner, I'd definitely say myself. It is my belief that you must improve yourself before you can improve others. I'm not disbelieving you but you've said a lot about the problems of the world and not much about your own problems. Of course I understand it's easy to talk about the former and hard to talk about the latter in front of a group of strangers. You don't need to feel pressured to publicly divulge all at a church either.
>>18322 I could post things showing how much Jews despise Christ and his followers. I could post charts showing the difference between them. I could post lengthy paragraphs about how Jews split off from us (not the other way around) by rejecting God. But I think that you've seen all that. I will pray for you anon. May God reveal Himself to you.
>>18322 What is second class Judaism
>>18326 What I mean is that I'm afraid that jews have used christianity to enslave people. I know that christians are good people. I don't want to believe it, but I'm scared anon. I'm so fucking scared.
>>18327 That's because many churches are alienated from the origins of Christianity. Christianity is the nullification of Judaism. This is clear if you read the Book of Hebrews and works from early Christians like the Epistle of Barnabas and Ignatius of Antioch: >Never allow yourself to be led astray by false teachings and antiquated and useless fables. Nothing of any use can be got from them. If we are still living in the practice of Judaism, it is an admission that we have failed to receive the gift of grace. Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians Chapter 8
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>>18177 >it's anti-cheating (for a lack of a better term) A relic from judaism and the Tanakh, not exclusive to the Christians. >it's anti-porn and anti-masturbation masturbation is forbidden in judaism too, remember Onan? >it's anti-homosexual Torah mitzvah, jews did it first >It's selfless and anti materialistic This is not exclusive to Christianity, the Rabbis exceeded christians in their asceticism. >it's anti usury But that did not prevent Christians from using jews to deal with finance and loans, indirectly dealing in usury. >also find it fishy that jews are promoting islam over christianity >Hans Joachim Schoeps observes that the Christianity which Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, was likely to have encountered on the Arabian peninsula "was not the state religion of Byzantium but a schismatic Christianity characterized by Ebionite and Monophysite views" >Thus we have a paradox of world-historical proportions, viz., the fact that Jewish Christianity indeed disappeared within the Christian church, but was preserved in Islam and thereby extended some of its basic ideas even to our own day. According to Islamic doctrine, the Ebionite combination of Moses and Jesus found its fulfillment in Muhammad. >— Hans Joachim Schoeps, Jewish Christianity TL;DR Islam is Arabic jewish-Christianity, the Quran even quotes the talmud and responds to it. You will find more wisdom in single sentence of the talmud than in all of the writings of the so called church fathers, you ought to follow the truth i.e become a Noahide or become a Jew.
>Kikes, Fag and Asylum patients are allowed to post /christian/ janny is a fucking tranny faggot diaper troon nigger for keeping those posts up.
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Also, how is one supposed to cope with the fact that christianity doesn't actually do as the bible says any more? Gays are parading around and aren't being put to death, separation of believers and nonbelievers doesn't happen in society anymore. Does it not say in the New Testament that faith alone and not acting in accordance to faith is not real faith? How are people supposed to act on faith when society forbids it? >>18333 Alright. I'll accept that answer. >>18325 >I could post lengthy paragraphs about how Jews split off from us (not the other way around) by rejecting God. Please do. I doubt I've seen everything.
>>18344 The simple answer is that America is no longer a Christian nation like it once was. Perhaps back in the 50s and earlier we could be considered a Christian nation, but ever since the 1960s, we've been becoming ever more secular and farther and farther away from God. If you look up when school prayer was stopped, it was 1962. Our government is a secular government. And what exactly is secular? Secular is literally short for 'Secular Humanism': the worldview that morality and truth can be determined by human reason alone. But considering how human nature is, more often than not, human "reason" ends up being variable and changing human opinion and emotion. It's why in only about 10 years, give or take, we've gone from "Gays just want to be married! Don't be a bigot!", to "Children who are too young to know that eating candy everyday for breakfast should be brainwashed to have irreversible chemical and physical mutilation done to them in order to be a grotesque facsimile of the sex they were never meant to be, or your a bigot!" Read Deuteronomy Ch 28 verses 15-68. Those are the curses that God pronounced would happen to Israel if they ever left Him. But notice how many of those curses are starting to happen to the West right now as we speak: 30 “You shall betroth a wife, but another man shall lie with her; you shall build a house, but you shall not dwell in it; 33 A nation whom you have not known shall eat the fruit of your land and the produce of your labor, and you shall be only oppressed and crushed continually. 43 “The alien who is among you shall rise higher and higher above you, and you shall come down lower and lower. In other words, more than likely what is happening to the West right now, is that we are under God's judgement for turning our back on Him. And as the last days approach, things are going to get worse and worse: 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. -2 Thessalonians 2:3 In other words, there is going to be a Great Apostasy from Christianity before the Antichrist even shows up. That's the thing: suffering and bearing your cross even in the most hopeless of circumstances is part and parcel of being a disciple of Christ. You may find yourself in the following situation: You're in a prison cell by yourself, being tortured and deprived of basic food and sustenance. 95% of the people you know have abandoned the faith. The jailers taunt you daily, telling you that your God is dead, and that if you but say a simple sentence to renounce Him, all of this suffering can cease. You can have a nice full belly once more, and your can see your friends and family again, and they will surely take you back. Come to your senses! Is all of this pain and agony really worth it? And God will expect you still to refuse their offer of compromise and suffer to the end for His Glory and for your Sanctification and Salvation. The earliest Christians were under even worse conditions than now. They were under a degenerate pagan government. Were routinely harassed and persecuted, and even thrown to lions, or even turned into human candles and burned alive for the amusement of the nobility. The point, is that as a Christian, this world is not your home. You are a pilgrim and a stranger in this life. You are seeking the eternal kingdom of God. You are seeking out Eternity, in contrast to the fleshly. This is not a faith for you if you want something that's going to solve all of the world's problems and create an earthly utopia. This a faith that changes your heart and the hearts of those around you, so that no matter what happens in this life, no matter how dire and hopeless it seems, you know that this world is a vain show, and that you are living for the end, when God will truly make everything right. If you die; so what? To live is Christ, and to die is gain, for to die is to be in the presence of the Lord forever. Because Christ if all you need, you can't be tortured into compromise. You can't be bribed with food or comfort. By the grace of God, you can become incorruptible in this life and especially the next.
>>18344 You can try and find others who agree with you irl or if God commands it make your own denomination. Can you list some of the beliefs you hold? If we align then perhaps we can stick together.
>>18352 >Can you list some of the beliefs you hold? If we align then perhaps we can stick together. I already told you a lot of them. I believe that jews should be jailed, homosexuals should be killed, porn should be outlawed, etc. A couple things I also believe is that working hard is morally right (because it's unfair to the people who do work hard if you don't), christian zionism needs to be reigned in, and I also think that blacks are some of the biggest reprobates on earth and are are frankly idiotic, which is exactly the reason why jews are trying so hard to get them to settle in the west. I don't have too much more time to explain myself, I need to be to work soon.
I honestly just have been beginning to realize how closely my own beliefs allign with christianity over the years, despite all my hatred I had of it. As another anon has said, what if the law is on my heart and I'm just rebelling against it? >>18359 Quiet schizo, the adults are talking.
>>18344 Alright then. This is a pretty big topic so I'll try to keep it focused and comprehensible. This will be an overview of the history of God's dealings with his people in order to give the background to the events around the time of Christ's incarnation. This is a summary of the historical aspect of the Old Testament. >GENESIS In the beginning, God created man (and woman). He created us as the final piece of the universe. We were the last thing that needed to be made for creation to be good. When God created us, he gave us the universe to manage and rule (wisely) as His stewards. We were also not to be like automata but to become part of God's family. Another way of looking at it is God allows His creation to participate in His plans. In this case God allowed humans to participate in His dominion over creation. Accordingly, unlike most other creations, we were given free will. A rock cannot help but to fall due to the law of gravity. An animal does what its instincts tell it. But we can choose not to obey the law of humanity even to the point of self-destruction. The law (Natural Law) is the one that governs the proper operation of this thing called "man." We can choose to act in a way that makes us bad at being human. And that is precisely what we did. God foresaw this and had already incorporated this into His plan. Fast forward. Humans have covered the Earth but so has sin. People were forgetting their creator. God chose one person out of everyone to be His ambassador on Earth. This man's name was Abram (later Abraham). He was to give rise to a nation whose purpose was to be the means of reconciliation between the whole world and God. A chosen people: not chosen because there was anything special about Abraham or out of favouritism, but chosen for a higher and more difficult path. This nation would experience many hardships but would also be privileged with being the instrument of God's plan. To that end, they would need instruction and refining. God continued this arrangement with his son Issac and grandson Jacob. At the end of Genesis, God preserves this nation by bringing it into Egypt. >EXODUS - DEUTERONOMY This nation is now being harshly dealt with by the reigning pharaoh. God selects Moses to be the one to lead them out of Egypt. Afterwards, He appears to them on Mt Sinai. Moses is again the one to go up and mediate between God and man. God hands down Moses a law most famously expressed in the ten commandments. At the head is the commandment that thou shalt have no other gods before me. Remember this is a people who was chosen to be God's light in the world so it's important that they actually do that. No sooner does Moses descend the mountain than he discovers that the people are already worshipping other gods. Right after God had granted a miraculous parting of the Red Sea so they could escape the Egyptian army. The rest of these four books detail the wanderings through the desert, the census of people and the elaboration of the law. The purpose of much of the law was to keep God's people as something that could legitimately be called God's people. To keep them visibly separate from other nations and as a way to guard them from relapsing until such time as God's plan is realised when the purpose of the law would be fulfilled. It's hard to light up a room if you hide the lamp under your bed. It's hard to bring light to the nations if you hide it and are not visibly different to the peoples around you. This part of the law is different to the Natural Law I talked about earlier. >JOSHUA This book deals with the conquest of Canaan. It narrates the establishment of a defined place where God's people could be nurtured into fruition and where the events of the Old Testament would largely take place. It's about the beginnings of the fight back against darkness in the expressly political sphere. >JUDGES God's people are now living in the Holy Land but they have again backslid. Judges can be pretty much summarised like this: The people are wallowing in moral decay internally and political strife externally. God raises up a judge to lead His people. The judge defeats the cause of external strife and restores the people to holiness. The judge dies. The people backslide. Repeat many times. Judges is a perfect encapsulation of the entire Old Testament and indeed the story of humanity in general. Throughout history we see again and again long, slow periods of decline punctuated by sharp periods of restoration. Throughout this, it is important to keep in mind that God is restoring humanity. That means that we ourselves must struggle through this process in which repeated failures are an inevitable part. Like a teacher with his student, God means to teach us how to stand on our own two feet and not be babies anymore. >KINGS 1-2 CHRONICLES 1-2 These books deal with the kings of the united kingdom and the divided kingdoms of Judah and Israel. A lot of it is about the tension between kings who want to do evil and God's prophets who warn against this and pronounce judgement on the wicked. >PROPHECY BOOKS These talk about the specific prophets they are named after. Some of them are sent to other lands such as Edom or Assyria. Remember that the point of God's people is to bring light to the whole world. It's not about "these are the only people I like and everyone else can stuff it." Many of the prophecies given directly concern Jesus as more of God's character and plan is revealed to Israel and Judah over the centuries. God promises a messiah who will come and restore God's people. Most of the prophets were killed because people don't like hearing the truth about themselves. >THE NEW TESTAMENT Suddenly one day it happens. God Himself descends to Earth as the god-man Jesus. You would think God's people, after centuries of special care and raising, would be thrilled about it. Many of them were not. In earlier times, understanding of God was dim and concrete metaphors had to be used to teach people. Military, political and financial success were all used as metaphors for the internal transformation of humanity. For example, in Judges the political restoration and moral restoration are linked so that you can understand one by the other. As time went on, understanding of God remained dim but improved enough that we can talk about the transformation without reference to such things. The problem with the Pharisees and many others (not just the Pharisees) is that they took completely the wrong message from this. They were convinced that the messiah was to enact a political restoration and rule over the other nations. No doubt the Pharisees (who were a faction of the priestly class) had in mind that they would rise to power alongside. Perhaps in a sort of advisory role or "intelligentsia?" Hmm I wonder where I've heard that before... In actual fact, the messiah was to restore God's people morally speaking and, through them, bring the entire world into the fold. The things they took pride in - lineage, the law - were just tools to God to bring about this end. With Jesus, they were no longer necessary. They had fulfilled their purpose. Many people, who we will now call Jews, rejected their own God and messiah. The same city that killed the prophets God had sent, killed His Son in the most outrageous act in history. In the words of the reproaches sung on Easter Friday: O my people, What have I done to you? How have I offended you? Answer me! https://y.com.sb/watch?v=ie1rJc-FkmE There is an exceptionally good version of it you can read about half way down this page. Just ctrl-f "The Reproaches." http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/Anglican_Service_Book/special_days.html God's people continued through and spread throughout the world and brought in people from all nations as was always the plan from before the world was made. The Jews, on the other hand, remained bitter and eternally butthurt that they can't use God to advance their own selfish desires of power and domination. They rejected God because, in the end, they did not want that kind of god. They wanted a god they could use for their own ends. As a final act to make things perfectly clear, God sent the Romans to destroy the physical temple in Jerusalem which was the centrepiece of religion and absolutely necessary for the proper worship of God under the law. The Jews still rejected God showing that even when their toys are taken away, they would still rather throw a tantrum than accept reality. Centuries after that, they made up a bunch of pilpul as a cope for the fact that their sins can't be atoned for without a temple under the law. This is Talmudic Judaism. It is utterly different to what people practised before Christ because it has to be. I have deliberately avoided the use of the word Jew until the end to make the point that we Christians are God's people. Not a replacement people because the originals weren't good enough: the same people. Membership is not reckoned by ancestry but by faith. The people called "Jews" nowadays call themselves "God's people" in arrogance and falseness because they are precisely the ones who rejected God. I don't really care about the whole "Jews are actually from Ukraine" business because this is the important bit. In practice, the word Jew is used to refer to >the genetic descendants of Abraham and the community he led >the people Moses led out of Egypt >the people living in Israel and Judah >the people living in Judaea at the time of Christ >The people who rejected Christ at the time >The people who call themselves Jews and reject God today. How much genetic continuity exists between the first and the last is irrelevant in the face of the fact that the latter reject the God of the former and so undermine everything they say about themselves. We never should have allowed them to keep that word because it's caused nothing but confusion. Calling Christianity "Jewish" is like calling Britain "American." Judaism (as we popularly understand the meaning today) is under 2000 years old. Christianity is ancient because God's people looked forward to the time when Christ would come (christ is Greek for the Hebrew messiah) as foretold by God's prophets.
>>18352 >or if God commands it make your own denomination. This is a terrible idea. In 1 Timothy 3:6, it says this regarding qualifications for church leaders: 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. In other words, a brand new Christian, like the OP might become, should stay as far away from church leadership positions as possible, until they mature in the faith, to avoid becoming conceited and corrupted with pride in the same manner as the Devil.
>>18344 >Christianity doesn't actually do as the bible says There are three things that are happening here. 1) Christians end up doing things they know are wrong because we are all weak. This is to be expected. Becoming a Christian doesn't instantly make you a perfect person. Naturally, we are going to mess up a lot because the Church is a hospital for the sick not a trophy room for the self-righteous. We know we do bad things. This is part of why forgiveness is so important. People need to be able to pick themselves up after a failure and try again. You don't need to do anything about this other than be forbearing towards others as they are forbearing towards you when you mess up. 2) People who want to use the institutional power of the Church (or whatever is left of it) to push their non-Christian agendas. Coupled with people who are swayed by their smooth words that distort the meaning of words. A prime example of this is the distortion of the meaning of "love." Loving a tranny doesn't mean using their pronouns and pretending they're not a hideous monstrosity. It means getting them psychological help. Unfortunately, that's illegal in many places What to do about this is difficult. You have options but they can be divided into basically two: >Find a church that isn't infiltrated and accept that you're contributing to more factionalism in the Church. >Stand your ground by speaking up against evil and suffer. In the end, you're kind of going to have to trust God to preserve His people as He has done before even though things look bad. This sort of thing has happened many times throughout the ages although this age is worse than most. During the Arian crisis, the overwhelming majority of bishops supported Arius and the true faith was defended by very few. In a way, living in an age like this has some benefit. although I would rather not Being a Christian in a difficult age promotes more sincerity and devotion among those who don't apostatise. We're doing this on hard mode which, in the end, will give us more potential to become like Christ who also suffered. Even though we all wish we lived in easier times, probably in heaven the people who lived in easier times admire those who had the privilege of living during persecutions and have won an everlasting crown. This all might be rather advanced and hard to understand so I think the takeaway is to worry a little bit less and focus on your own salvation even if the world around you is going to Hell. Why should you be dragged down with them? 3)Christians don't obey all the laws found in the Old Testament such as "no pork" or "chop the end of your dick off." I talked a little about this in my previous post. The purpose of this part of the law which was given (as opposed to the Natural Law which is eternal and inherent to creation) was to mark the people as God's people. The word "holy" in fact means "separated" or "set apart" so this was a way to mark them as "holy." It was partly so other nations could look on and see that there was something different about these people, and partly for the benefit of God's people. Exceedingly few people can remain devoted to something in pure abstraction. People need rituals so they can be reassured of the things they intellectually believe. The problem the Pharisees had arose when people started to believe that their holiness and salvation was derived from their mechanical adherence to rituals (works) instead of just being marked by them. Then they started to believe that they could save themselves by their own actions. With Christ, the purpose of that law is fulfilled because we have been given the full revelation of God's plan for salvation and no longer need to be under the custody of the law. If we Christians were to attempt to keep this law, it would be like re-crucifying Jesus and we would become like the Jews. We would be saying, "we don't need your salvation, God, we can do it ourselves with the law." That is why we do not follow these laws. Here is Paul on circumcision. Paul (originally Saul) was a dedicated Pharisee on the Sanhedrin council and murdered many early Christians before his encounter with Christ. He says >Now I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. >I testify again to every man who receives circumcision that he is bound to keep the whole law. >You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. >For through the Spirit, by faith, we wait for the hope of righteousness. >For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love. >You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? >... >As for those agitators [those preaching circumcision], I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves! >Galatians 5. Last verse taken from a different translation than my normal Bible because it has the most poignant wording. Well... it's taken a while but...
>>18366 Hey! I know that you think you are cool, hilarious and special but in reality you are boring and lame. Just letting you know.
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>>18363 I honestly cannot help but agree. Not only am I a novice at this, there already are enough denominations as there is. If anything, christianity as a whole needs reunification. Now how I would do it is simply by unifying it with gods commandments and everything literal that leaves no room for interpretation. If a christian denomination goes against one of those commandments, then that division needs to be cast out as heresy. But that's just my personal opinion on the matter to be completely honest.
>>18334 The Talmud is a fabrication that was written centuries after the gospels.

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