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So what's the deal with Romans 11? Anonymous 09/17/2022 (Sat) 17:14:44 ID: e6710a No.18166
Is the olive branch God's grace or is it Israel's blessings?
God's covenant people, the gentile nations were being covenanted through the gospel while the Jewish nation had apostatized
>>18166 Christ only came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel and Jews never accepted Christ in any significant numbers. Why do people still get hang ups over the God damned Jews who literally are damned by God in the Bible? Jews rejected Christ and still do, they're obviously not from God, this is made extremely apparent by Christ who calls them of their father the devil and saying they're not of the Father otherwise they'd know Christ. I don't know why people are so gullible, just because some child raping subversive communist "jews" claim to be God's people, they just believe them because they don't want to stand for truth because they're a bunch of worldly carnal faggot cowards. I'm sure even now zionist apologist will try arguing with me that kikes are akshually God's chosen or ever were (they weren't). Moses was a Christian, not a kike.
>>18168 Yeah but why would Paul say eventually they would accept the gospel? Why would he say that there was a remnant of Jews that converted?
>>18173 The actual nation of Jews was destroyed in AD 70 modern "Judaism" is just a cult that quotes the Old Testament and no better than pagans.
>>18173 >they're obviously not from God, this is made extremely apparent by Christ who calls them of their father the devil and saying they're not of the Father otherwise they'd know Christ. This is why you teach your kids how to read from an early age because if you had actually read the verse/verses you're referencing then you'd know that Christ was referring to the Pharisees and not the general Jewish population.
>>18204 Modern Judaism was founded by the Pharisees after the destruction of the temple.
>>18219 And? While it's modern form isn't as true to the original religion as it was in the past, depending on which denomination you look at, there's really not much of a difference. You could even say they've gone full circle seeing as many modern Jews now believe Jesus was a wise rabbi instead of some random sorcerer. Keep in mind, the Pharisees main sin aside from hating Jesus was their pride and hyper legalization, their hatred of Jesus being a side effect of His criticism toward those two. Anyways, anon is correct about God's chosen people being believers and not Jews specifically but the idea that they are "damned by God" is just laughable and flies in the face of Jesus's entire mission.
>>18220 >And? >While it's modern form isn't as true to the original religion as it was in the past, depending on which denomination you look at, there's really not much of a difference. They can't be true to the religion of Moses as it centered around the tabernacle and the earthly temple, which was destroyed as it was superseded by the heavenly temple of the body of Christ. >You could even say they've gone full circle seeing as many modern Jews now believe Jesus was a wise rabbi instead of some random sorcerer. That's great, but even demons confessed that Jesus is Lord. >Keep in mind, the Pharisees main sin aside from hating Jesus was their pride and hyper legalization, their hatred of Jesus being a side effect of His criticism toward those two. And those are still to this day the centerpieces of the Pharisaic faith, Jewish exceptionalism, nationalism, and rabbinical legal tradition. There is nothing good in their religion so long as it denies Jesus as Lord and Savior, and they are damned in doing so in the way that all humanity is which denies Jesus as Lord. The State of Israel itself decrees in law that Jews that accept Jesus are categorically not Jews, no matter their ethnic origin. As Jesus said however in Matthew 10:37-38, "He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me." This is the dilemma that modern Jews face, for accepting Christ is to disown their heritage, the one which has been shaped by their Christ-shunning forebears, whose keepers will disown them as an apostate and gentile and a disgrace to family and friends. Is social suicide worth converting? The Lord continues in Matthew 10:39: "He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." Those who remain Jews, that is, the vast majority of self-identifying Jews, cannot dare this. Those who are non-observant however, may as well be considered agnostics or atheists, and are often zealous secularists who take exception at expressions of the Christian faith to such a degree that their anti-Christian forebears would probably be proud of their chutzpah despite their disdain of their own traditions. Those who are not, just as they did not carry their Jewish beliefs with any conviction, will not convert to Christianity with any conviction and will simply join a liberal church. Judaism needs a new Paul, an ardent opponent turned to an ardent proponent with the same canny spirit, before it is willing to turn to Christ, if such a figure may come before the last days.
>>18175 >For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches. >As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. Though Israel had recently apostatized and gone a-whoring after other gods whom their fathers had not known, God still had a great love for Abraham, for Isaac and for Jacob, such that He still favors the Jews in regards to election that if He were to choose between saving a single Jew and a single gentile He would choose the Jew as a blessing upon his fathers who were once faithful to Him. And since they were rejected for the gentiles sake so that the gospel would go out to every nation they shall return to their first love once the gentiles have all come in, at the end of all things, at the time when the dead shal live again. Therefore we ought not to be haughty towards them as if we were chosen for some goodness in ourselves over them as they were not chosen for some goodness in themselves over the Canaanites, and we should not deceive ourselves that their evils are caused by their race rather than their spirit, for the Jews once were paragons of righteousness and will be again. Our fathers were rebellious children who although they had known God since the flood had chosen to abandon Him and forget Him and since they did not like to retain God in their knowledge they exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for images of corruptible man and beasts and birds and creeping things, but when the gospel came to our ancestors they were remorseful and repentant, and though we had been lost, we were found, we had been dead, and were alive again. This is when and why the Jews became evil as they are known to be, because they reacted to our return with jealous rage because of the blessings which had been showered on us even though they were faithful for many centuries. They did not heed the Father's plea, "Son, you have always been with me and all that's mine is yours".
>>18220 >the idea that they are "damned by God" is just laughable Jesus damned the fig tree before going to the temple. Guess what the fig tree represented back then?
>>18226 So Christ, who came to save the world, damned the world before he came to save it. What was the point of His sacrifice then? >Inb4 "muh Pharisees and muh ebil" It's not the sheep's fault when the shepherd leads them astray.
>>18227 >What was the point of His sacrifice then? To put His will and testament into effect. Did you ever read the Book of Hebrews? For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood. For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, saying, “THIS IS THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT WHICH GOD COMMANDED YOU.” And in the same way he sprinkled both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry with the blood. And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. Hebrews 9:16-22 His sacrifice is the pardon for the righteous who receive Him and condemnation for the wicked who reject Him. >It's not the sheep's fault when the shepherd leads them astray. Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.  James 1:13-15
>>18251 Anon said that Jesus damned the Jews. If Jesus damned an entire population and their ancestors then that would defeat the entire point of His sacrifice. Saying that Jesus rebuked the Jews would be more correct and in hindsight I imagine that was what anon was trying to say.
Are we reading the same Romans 11? It starts by speaking of the wickedness of most Jews, and then goes on by speaking of the few thousand who kept the faith in the religion that Jesus restored. It is pretty plain that God's people are not those who have not bent the knee to Baal, but those who accept the Law of Moses and have faith in the Lord God Jesus Christ, true man, true God and the Messiah of humanity.

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