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Islam Thread Anonymous 09/03/2022 (Sat) 23:11:29 ID: 8287c9 No.17347
For discussions/debate/dialogue related to Islam.
Edited last time by christianjanny on 09/05/2022 (Mon) 21:17:03.
I tried posting on the Islam board telling them that Heaven is from Jesus and I greatly respect their devotion to God but they need to understand this. But apparently the owner isn't open to discussing truth about God and Jesus two people part of their religion but okay that's fine. I actually want to know what Muslims think. How do they think they go to Heaven when "Heaven" didn't exist in the Old Testament. The Kingdom of Heaven is something Jesus created. "Going to Heaven" Is a Jesus thing a Christian exclusive. I still haven't found any evidence that ANYONE before Jesus was arrogant enough to believe they would "go live with the Gods." That is an extremely arrogant idea that nobody had. Everyone always went to the underworld. Yes their was different places in the underworld, like a nice field for warriors or whatever, maybe reincarnation. But you're not good enough to go live with Zeus. Elijah was taken into the sky and disappeared. Enoch was "taken". There is no such thing as Heaven without Jesus he invented it, the Kingdom of Heaven. non-orthodox modern Jews believe in "going to Heaven" to compete with Christians and Muslims believe in going to Heaven because they're technically Christians that's what they branched off from. So I'd like an Muslim to explain what they believe. Because God makes it clear, who was saved from the angel of death in Egypt? The good people? No. The people who did what God said and put the blood of the unblemished lamb on their door. Muslims I hope are not sitting in the house next door saying "well God won't kill my first born son as long as I pray enough and worship, I don't need this nonsense extra stuff he wants." God wants what he wants. Not what we think he wants. You can pray and worship all day but God has created a story a narrative and he wants something, he has done something and that is Jesus. I think the New Testament actually does imply in a few passages the idea that someone after death can meet Jesus and be forgiven and justified, but kind of a risk really to hope for that. You really want to worship God, but you're not doing what he wants you're not engaging in what he has done.
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Jesus said to beware of false prophets... mohammed is a "prophet" specifically, a false one Matthew 24:24 that being said I prefer them to faggots/queers/sodomites
Heaven is largely the point of the messiah. The prophecy is to bare sins and establish a eternal kingdom not made by human hands this is in Isaiah and Daniel and so on. The cleansing of sins is from the cross. So if you don't believe it was really Jesus on the cross it really makes no sense whatsoever, anything. As Michael Brown always points out the Messiah had to come before the Second Temple was destroyed based on Daniel. The Pharisees knew who Jesus was. That wasn't the problem the problem was they didn't like him and what he had to say about their religious devotion. I love Muslims, they actually have the religious truth: I am bad, God is good. Atheists tend to believe: I am good, God is bad, which is almost beyond helping. The reason it's called Good News is again like the bronze snake (Numbers 21). If you were in the wilderness getting bitten by snakes and God said okay I'll save all the good people or I'll forgive some people's sins now. That sucks for lots of people. But instead God says look at this bronze snake and be saved from the snake poison. That's something anyone can do, God doesn't need your deeds he needs someone who listens, just have faith in God. There's hope even if I've been a terrible person is the message which is repeated many times up to Jesus. And the reason for this is simple. If God was always saving "good people" they would get prideful. "Look at those filthy ones suffering, I'm so good that's why I'm in my position." God constantly tells the Jews he's working with them not because of their righteousness, he kind of bonks them constantly over the head about this. People are rewarded for their good will, such as the Roman in Acts 10 I think it is. God said he'd let him hear the Good News by which he can be saved because of all his good will. Cursed is the ground it will bring forth thorns. Cursed is anyone hung on a pole. Jesus took on these curses he took on sin, everything. Please Muslims see this and do consider. "But God can't be a maaaan!" God can make a donkey talk, he can talk to Moses from a burning bush. He appeared to the Hebrews as a man more than once. But he can't send his word to become flesh? I think he can probably do that. The Jews are waiting for a mortal human saviour messiah. But God says he is the only saviour and aside from him there is no other. The messiah the saviour of sins had to be divine. The finished work is in Yeshua, the man who reversed Adam. The time of the gentiles would seem fulfilled and in time Jesus once everyone has been taken into the Kingdom will return as he said, he would return once the world is a rotting corpse. Please also Muslims read the New Testament if you haven't. You might think you know but read them just to see for yourself. God is indeed the only saviour so how do you expect to save yourself from sin, from sinfulness. Maybe you can overcome some. But God's Spirit can really help your salvation from sinfulness and Jesus is justification which is salvation from the underworld and judgement and all the rest of it. Justification from Hell and Judgement something you can't do on your own. Salvation from sinfulness something you must work on with God, and discipleship. God's first greatest commandments are love. He wants that love relationship and peace. And ignore the haters. Christ doesn't hate you and want to call you names and some sort of pathetic Christian vs Islam fight. Jesus did come to fulfil and to give up his life. John 10:11 says: I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The disciples proclaimed the resurrection from the beginning not the fact he was just a teacher. That's for the one Muslim who will somewhat see this even though he'll probably not even be a real Muslim anyways on top of that so but that's okay.
And obviously Jesus wasn't just the "Messiah saviour of the Jews." Part of the whole prophecy is in fact that he is rejected by the Jews and becomes a light to the gentiles such as Isaiah 49 and Malachi 1 and others. I know Muslims will say that he was just for Israel. And I've seen Atheists be confused by this thinking Jesus failed and couldn't accomplish his mission and so it became a gentile thing, it was known well in advance this would happen and that Israel would cease to exist for a time. Lo! A time and half a time! Yea!
>>17350 >So I'd like an Muslim to explain what they believe. They don't believe the Bible, they think that Allah "corrected" it in what he revealed to Muhammad.
>>17362 They believe that Jesus didn't die on the cross and that he was a prophet for islam. To them the bible is corrupted but the Koran also says to follow the bible.
>>17364 >the Koran also says to follow the bible Keep in mind Muhammad was illiterate so he probably said that to make himself seem less radical while having no clue what the Bible actually said.
>>17362 Yeah but going to Heaven was invented by Jesus in the Bible. So I don't know how Muslims think. I know in the Quran it says God has promised Heaven for people and things. But it seems kind of random for Heaven to come along for no reason in the 7th century. It should be a big deal. Jesus was a big deal. We understand how it came to be and the fact it was talked about well in advance. "No no no no Zoroastrians believed in going to Heaven." College kids make articles claiming this online. I don't know if I want to figure out which manuscripts are proven to be pre-christ but people who have actually read them seem to think Heaven is not at all the same thing as the Kingdom of Heaven which Jesus created and Muslims obviously also believe in because they're a spin off of Christianity like Mormons. http://avesta.org/antia/Life_After_Life_According_to_Zarathushtra.pdf All religions are the same. The difference of everything is hinged on the resurrection of Jesus. We can prove some events in the Bible and these things. But outside of testimony the focal point of everything is just Jesus. Muslims can say they believe in the Quran and holy books which manuscripts have bee slightly edited and things. Christians don't have a hope it what a wise old sage said. Christians don't have a hope in a book. The hope all hinges on a actual event. It's based on a thing that happened or not. I think it's more than clear it did happen and I think born agains know themselves within it happened.
>>17347 Satan and the demons literally believe Jesus is the son of God. Then, we should love them even more than moslems, right?
No one is ever trying to prove Zeus. It doesn't matter to Hindus whether their Gods are real, they know they aren't they don't care. The Buddha didn't need to perform miracles. It's all junky garbage. The Hebrew Bible is the most intensely explored book and I don't know a single thing in it at this point that isn't frankly proven in some way. Any theory against the resurrection is ridiculous and that's just the resurrection, the fact Jesus performed miracles is simply not denied. The Talmudic Jews had to call him a wizard. Faith has nothing to do with believing nonsense. Faith is who you place your trust in. So who and what should you place your trust in? What can be proven. Christianity isn't a "religion" in the way we use the term for this reason. It's about facts and science and history and documentation. "We believe because it makes the most sense." Peter, Stephan and Paul explained the reason for the resurrection and how everything at the time was pointed to by the Bible. Be prepared with an answer for anyone who asks you. Religions like evolution and Islam and Buddhism and especially all the idol religions throughout history like Hinduism have no teeth for their spirituality it's sensuality. "Come to Islam it's obviously not created by the devil because it says to do good things. Just know that Jesus didn't really die on the cross." What a weird thing to say. Very strange to be able to say "I believe in Jesus just not the cross part." Very odd, why would the devil not want people to believe in that particular thing. Miracles oh yes virgin birth yes yes but not the cross part. Not the entire point of everything. The sacrificial system and everything. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQnLCDbjjic Do you understand Muslims!? DO YOU!? "Ya hear me DEMONS!" please message me on MSN if you got that reference to Zoe 101. https://youtu.be/UdYfMbIOGMQ?t=657 wow this is WAY worse than I remember. Every strange event of the Hebrew Bible, is God making sure Jesus is put in there. "Abraham go sacrifice your son" What? "No nevermind don't do that put since you were willing to sacrifice your only son I promise through your seed to bless all the nations." Okay... "Put an unblemished lamb's blood on your door and then eat its flesh!" ...EEEEH? SO NUNDA? HONTOU NII NEEEEE, NEEEEEE is how the Jews responded. Sacrifice is important IMMEDIATELY after the fall of man. Jesus is bringing us back to the tree of life before the fall that's the whole point. NEE! Every culture tries to sacrifice for forgiveness of sins. Jesus ended that. Muslims are ignoring the real Yeshua, okay well then you have to go back to making burnt offerings sacrifices and no heaven. "Oooh bit weird innit, bloody sacrifices, no thanks mate, bit messy that old thing. Just do your best and go to Heaven or Hell now it's really that simple." You have invented that idea, it's not based on history or facts or God or anything. You have been lied to.
>>17375 >Yeah but going to Heaven was invented by Jesus in the Bible. So I don't know how Muslims think. Muslim heaven described in the Koran is a very worldly place, it's not like Christian heaven.
>>17394 This is not making any sense. Muslims can't describe Heaven. What Heaven? At what point did people start going to this Heaven they talk about, where did it come from. Muslims believe in God they believe in Abraham and Moses they worship a rock that they believe Abraham touched or something... I don't understand. Has anyone told them that the whole Heaven thing is from Jesus. They can't claim to be following the true way from Abraham and the prophets to now and just ignore things. Does the Quran just randomly start talking about "And if you're good enough you can go to Heaven." That's not from anything! That's not a thing! You can't just say that. You can't go from Judaism where everyone went down to the land of the dead and then skip over Jesus establishing his Kingdom of Heaven and then go to Muhammad where Heaven is just a general concept. How? Why? Because God just starting saying that in the Quran? Well. Actually you know what, I don't care. Because whatever it is it's stupid. Forget the nonsense, I understand there's new research saying the Quran was originally all about Jesus and written in Aramaic. Islam has zero standing. It's standing on pillars of sand. Jews at least can say "I don't believe in Jesus as Messiah." and carry on with their dead covenant. The Muslim idea is beyond nonsensical. Who did this? Jesus was the messiah but he didn't die on the cross and therefore didn't accomplish the cleansing of sins and somehow he lived the rest of his life in secret while the Church just lied and built, I mean it's so stupid. He's still a prophet and the Quran says the Gospels are true but at the same time I guess what they say maybe kind of isn't it's just a bunch of contradictions. It's like Calvinism. "Yes God's will is everyone is saved but he doesn't do it it's a great mystery! It's your fault if you go to Hell even though God has to make you even want to be saved in the first place!!!!! Behold the great contradicting MYSTERY of God uuuuu OWO scary~" No you just are misreading the text. If your idea has contradictions, bad idea, start over. You need a beginning to end. Muslims can say well I just believe in the Quran like you believe in the Bible. But I'm going from the beginning to now with no confusion. The New Testament Old Testament make sense they are related. Quran is also related but it's the nephew who eats paste. It doesn't work with what was already known, it's Mormonism but worse in many ways amazingly. But I would love to hear a Muslim explain Heaven and blood sacrifices. You know the Temple area was a huge market place. They used to sell animals for sacrifices not just to Jews but gentiles everybody. Sacrifice was so important everyone knew that. Going to Heaven, the end of sacrifices. You can't skip Jesus and have those two things. I think many Muslims just need to be given some information which they are probably being lied to about. You can't have the Abrahamic thing without the covenants. What Covenant are the Muslims under. What does Muhammad have to do with anything he's just some Arab in the desert. THINK. He's not part of Israel or anything, 600 years after Jesus suddenly there's some guy in a desert and I'm really really annoyed when people believe wrong things. I want everyone to believe and know the right things. Please. I'm gonna cry it's so painful. It's called both the Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven because it's of those things. If you ignore the Kingdom part it really stops making sense. you're going to live where? In the realm of God, he starting building stuff there for everyone? When did he decide to start doing that I mean nice theory I guess, good luck with that. And Jews who believe in going to Heaven my gosh, "I can't wait for Messiah to come and establish his Kingdom! But also when I die can't wait to go to the Heavenly Kingdom that now exists for some reason!" ...Yeah the Kingdom already exists because Messiah came. There's a block of text that was fun. Actually it just upsets me thinking about people believing the lie of Islam.
Kind of telling that "God" in the Quran starts talking about going to Heaven 600 years after Jesus. Where did "God" come up with that one? I wonder. God starts talking a lot like he's living in the post Christian world. "No no we're going to the Kingdom of Heaven Jesus talked about. But Paul lied and it's not about believing Jesus (PBUH) rose from the dead and stuff. Jesus (PBUH) just talked about being good and love Allah. You've been tricked! I pity and blush for you O Christian! UwU" Jesus himself talks about believing in him and sins of the world all that but okay. okay. You believe what you want imaginary Muslim opponent I invented. I don't want to even think about it anymore.
>>17395 They don't believe in Heaven >In Islam, Jannah (Arabic: جَنّة, romanized: janna, pl. جَنّٰت jannāt, Turkish: Cennet), lit. "paradise, garden",[2] is the final abode of the righteous.[3] According to one count, the word appears 147 times in the Quran.[4] Belief in the afterlife is one of the six articles of faith in Sunni and Twelver Shi'ism, a place where "believers" (Mumin) will enjoy pleasure, while the unbelievers (Kafir) will suffer in Jahannam.[5] Both Jannah and Jahannam are believed to have several levels, in both cases, the higher the level, the more desirable[6]: 131-133  -- in Jannah the higher the prestige and pleasure, in Jahannam the less the suffering. The afterlife experiences are described as physical, psychic and spiritual.[7] Jannah is described with physical pleasures such as gardens, houris, wine that has no aftereffects, and "divine pleasure".[7] Their reward of pleasure will vary according to the righteousness of the person.[8][9] The characteristics of Jannah often have direct parallels with those of Jahannam. The pleasure and delights of Jannah described in the Quran, are matched by the excruciating pain and horror of Jahannam.[10][11] >Jannah is also referred to as the abode of Adam and Eve, before they have been expelled.[6]: 165  Most Muslims hold that Jannah (as well as Jahannam) coexist with the temporal world, rather than being created after Judgement Day.[12] Although humans may not pass the boundaries to the otherworld, the otherworld may interact with the temporal world of humans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jannah
>>17397 Jannah is the term they use for Heaven it's paradise I see articles of Muslims calling Jannah Heaven. But I don't understand what it comes from. HOWEVER it is explained here it's the garden of Adam and Eve or something even though that existed on Earth obviously but I do know Muslims think the garden existed in space or something. So it has nothing to do with Jesus that's fine. They've invented this idea that they're going back to a Garden that is currently covered under layers of sedimente by the flood. Interesting that their destination happens to be underground. It may have nothing to do with the Old Testament and they may just ignore the sacrificial system and covenants (or they have answers I don't know), but I guess if they want to believe God just started doing this and as long as you believe Jesus wasn't who he directly said he was you can go to this other heaven... under the ground. I can't imagine who came up with that idea.
Indeed to be a Muslim you have to deny the reality of Jesus' Kingdom of Heaven for a hope that you'll go... where? Okay the Garden of Eden Let's look because I wasn't aware In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth and the Garden of Eden some where: (Genesis 2) This is the history of the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens. No plant of the field was yet in the earth, and no herb of the field had yet sprung up; for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth. There was not a man to till the ground, but a mist went up from the earth, and watered the whole surface of the ground. The LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. The LORD God planted a garden eastward, in Eden, and there he put the man whom he had formed. Out of the ground the LORD God made every tree to grow that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food, including the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. A river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from there it was parted, and became the source of four rivers. The name of the first is Pishon: it flows through the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; and the gold of that land is good. Bdellium and onyx stone are also there. The name of the second river is Gihon. It is the same river that flows through the whole land of Cush. The name of the third river is Hiddekel. This is the one which flows in front of Assyria. The fourth river is the Euphrates. (Genesis 4) Cain left the LORD’s presence, and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden. Really sounds like a place on Earth. But maybe the Quran is right. You know what my favourite Proverb from Solomon was: Enjoy life and wait to enter the Garden of Eden again. My favourite Psalm from David and the Levite Boys was: "When we're back in the Garden of Eden! O HOSANNA!" Well maybe it's not the Garden of Eden but it's just some supernatural Paradise, the Quran says! Well if you wanna believe early medieval Arabian peasants and a warlord and that they understood God's history and scripture better than the Jews go ahead. But this is a funky new idea. Jesus was funky too but the whole Bible pointed to him and HIS paradise. And his resurrection from the dead. And you get on Noah's boat by listening to the warnings, you survive Sodom and Gomorrah by running away not praying, you get saved from snake bites by looking at a bronze statue, saved from the angel of death by putting on the lamb's blood and kept alive by surrendering to Israel's conquest. Yes Prayer and righteousness are important but God always works in the way he works he doesn't work how we want him to work. It doesn't matter who you were if you didn't do the specific thing God wanted you died and God wants something. To believe in the long awaited Messiah. In Jesus there is- You know I'm not sure why I'm posting this, there's one Muslim who uses the Islam board and he's not going to read this or care.
(Yes I have nothing to do today) The Old Testament constantly talks about Sheol, it's amazing it doesn't talk about this "Paradise" Muslims speak of in fact it's really amazing that in fact Jesus is the first person to even speak about an apparent Paradise-like side in Sheol. Abraham's Bosom. Again so weird "God" just talks about this stuff 700 years after Jesus when Christianity was big I mean just crazy isn't it. Gosh you wonder if some of the Old Testament writers even believed life after death, there's really no Paradise described like this in there https://www.learnreligions.com/heaven-in-the-quran-2004343 Great lore though. The land of the dead was quite dreary. And the reason I harp on this is because it's kind of what it comes down to for people of God. Many Muslims are far more righteousness than me. The issue is of truth. The reality is there can literally only be one truth of the universe of all reality. Something is right and something else is wrong. And you have to look at everything and think what is it, what's right and what's wrong? Before you continue saying "obviously the best I can do is be a Muslim and worship God I mean obviously right." Before continuing, just consider maybe your truth isn't the truth. "Surely God is the way I currently think he is." No, he's better. So it's important. Very. If Christians actually believed what Jesus said we'd be a lot more concerned for those who are headed in the wrong direction. Even if in the end tons of people are saved and it wasn't "that narrow" I'm not taking the risk. If someone doesn't believe in Jesus, it's not a matter of opinions that person has been lied to. ALL the facts are on the Christians side so don't be afraid be concerned and tell everyone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3nncLfYFBQ
>>17398 Yes because Muslims don't believe in original sin, so they don't believe in Christ having to die for their sins, and they think Allah will let them back in to the Garden of Eden for listening to him.
>>17403 Well that's just nonsense isn't it. Satan's laughing at that one about as much as convincing people the universe came from nothing. The Garden of Eden from what? FROM THE TORAH!? The one on Earth!? You can't just take something from the Bible and make it different. It was on Earth, no one in the Old Testament talked about going back to it. "Oh Christians believe in this Kingdom of Heaven that was prophetised and fulfilled as God's redemption plan... well what do we have, we can't use the Jesus thing because people might start believing the truth. What kind of Paradise can I fool people with, how about the Garden of Eden yeah that's where you go back to. UwU." Boggles the mind. Adam and Eve were kicked out for one mistake. WHAT DO YOU THINK HE'S GONNA DO TO YOU! Listening to God, they can start by actually listening to him and learning what's going on and what has gone on. Maybe a bad idea to listen to someone claiming to speak for God who has no credentials and a rather poor track record as I understand it. I've seen very few David Wood videos I'm surprised he really deleted is channel. It's kind of weird to be called by God to do Muslim outreach specifically. So many things start out as outreach, Muslims come and believe in Jesus but after a while turns into: Top ten reasons Prophet Muhammad was a moron.
(II Timothy 4) and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn away to fables. (Titus 1) not paying attention to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn away from the truth. (II Peter 1) For we didn’t follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. You have fables or the resurrection. And look at the facts. I'm glad Muslims somehow know that someone else was crucified in the place of Jesus. Josephus didn't think that, in fact I don't think anyone in the first century thought that. And again, WEIRD. Odd. Virgin birth is okay and miracles, very odd that the forgiveness of sins, that's the important thing to ignore. You know it's... I can't imagine who would want to change that specific part of the story you know. I can't imagine anyone at all. Hmmm... who could be beyond this religion? Who could it beeee nooow! https://youtu.be/fWojB4dWbo8?t=1563
Here's my view on it, for what that is worth. Islam has positives and negatives. Many Muslims are pious, moral and conservative people. They are dedicated and zealous to God, but unfortunately, Muslims believe in an idol of the true God. This idol is the creation of Muhammad, a man who almost must be pitied for what happened to him - he was attacked by a demon in a cave, and almost driven to suicide multiple times according to early Muslim sources. Pitiable as he may be, he was by no means the perfect man, and we must realize that the heresy of Muhammad has led countless millions away from Jesus Christ as He truly is, i.e. the Way, the Truth and the Life, we must also acknowledge that Islam has laid the foundations for the eventual spread of the Gospel into the parts of the world that it has not yet come into. They are learning the names of the prophets, and of Christ, and many things, but not in the correct way, sometimes very far off the mark. We must understand that Muhammad is an antichrist. He denied the Son, and thus denied the Father. He denied the crucifixion and the resurrection. Christ is not risen according to them! We are still in our sins if Muhammad were right! Muslims need the Gospel. We must not hate them, you are correct, but we must hate the false religion that is leading them to destruction if they do not repent of it and follow the Gospel. I at one time almost became a Muslim in my religious journey before I found Christ, and I still respect many Muslims, but now that I have found the true faith, I realize how badly these people need the Gospel. The Bible prophecies that one day the people of Arabia will celebrate and bring gifts, and exult in Christ. We have to pray for this, and pray that the heresy of Muhammad is in time, God-willing, blotted out along with Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Judaism and all other false religions that distort the truth of the Gospel. Remember too that Muslims are regularly killing Christians have believe in the Lordship of Jesus Christ. When Muslims are weak, they stress the commonality of themselves with us, but when they are strong, we are martyred and made dhimmis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmCnKHFEFYc
>>17366 >Keep in mind Muhammad was illiterate Muhammad was not illiterate. He told the cave demon that he was not a qāriʾ, i.e. a reciter. This is what the root primarily means, to recite, to read, to vocalize. Qur’an means ‘recitation’ for this very reason. There also many ahadith in Sahih al-Bukhari which mention Muhammad writing: “The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with `Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).” https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5158 “Ibn `Abbas said, "When the ailment of the Prophet became worse, he said, 'Bring for me (writing) paper and I will write for you a statement after which you will not go astray.' But `Umar said, 'The Prophet is seriously ill, and we have got Allah's Book with us and that is sufficient for us.' But the companions of the Prophet differed about this and there was a hue and cry. On that the Prophet said to them, 'Go away (and leave me alone). It is not right that you should quarrel in front of me." Ibn `Abbas came out saying, "It was most unfortunate (a great disaster) that Allah's Messenger was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise” https://sunnah.com/bukhari:114 Muhammad was also a merchant and well-travelled, having been to Syria and similar places. He was indisputably literate. The illiteracy claims are later Muslim copes.
>>17404 >The Garden of Eden from what? FROM THE TORAH!? The one on Earth!? You can't just take something from the Bible and make it different. That's literally what the Koran is Muslims also believe that Abraham's covenant passed through Ishmael and the Arabs not Isaac and the Jews and that the binding of Isaac actually happened with Ishamel therefore the Jews are liars about Israel and are damned >Eid al-Adha (Arabic: عيد الأضحى, romanized: ʿĪd al-ʾAḍḥā, lit. 'Feast of the Sacrifice') is the second and the bigger of the two main holidays celebrated in Islam (the other being Eid al-Fitr). It honors the willingness of Ibrahim (Abraham) to sacrifice his son Ismail (Ishmael) as an act of obedience to Allah's command. Before Ibrahim could sacrifice his son, however, Allah provided him with a lamb which he was supposed to kill in his son's place because of his willingness to sacrifice his own son in the name of God. In commemoration of this intervention, animals are ritually sacrificed. Part of their meat is consumed by the family which offers the animal, while the rest of the meat is distributed to the poor and the needy. Sweets and gifts are given, and extended family members are typically visited and welcomed.[6] The day is also sometimes called the Greater Eid.[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eid_al-Adha
Genesis 16:11-12 >"Behold, you have conceived and will bear a son. And you shall name him Ishmael, for the LORD has heard your cry of affliction. He will be a wild donkey of a man, and his hand will be against everyone, and everyone’s hand against him; he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.” Muhammad is the fulfillment of Ishmael
don't muslims butcher lgbtq people like animals, it's pure savagery we ought not to emulate them.
>>17416 Isn't there a verse of the quran where Muhammad is being accused of plagiarism and his defense is "how could I have plagiarized this when I can't read?" Hadiths talking about Muhammad writing something doesn't necessarily mean anything because writing (especially in an ancient low literacy context) can mean dictating, so Muhammad could have simply dictated the marriage contract with Aisha. The one that mentions him requesting paper is more damning but it sounds like he was old there? And might have learned some letters later on? Regardless it might be worth looking deeper into that one to see what's going on there. I don't see why Muhammad being illiterate would be a muslim cope seeing as it explains so well why he was utterly clueless about what Christianity is and what the bible is because everything he knew of it was just bits and pieces he had overheard around the campfire on caravan trips.
>>17571 >I don't see why Muhammad being illiterate would be a muslim cope seeing as it explains so well why he was utterly clueless about what Christianity is and what the bible is because everything he knew of it was just bits and pieces he had overheard around the campfire on caravan trips. It was the influence of the unclean spirit that possessed Muhammad that made him incapable of understanding Christ's message. He had countless opportunities to learn from Christians. When he was a young man, he met the monk Bahira in Syria. Many of the Arabs at this point were Christians as well (though Muslims will not tell you this), one just has to look at the Ghassanids, and Arabs known as the ʿIbād, i.e. the Servants [of Christ]. Along with this, Judaism had existed on the Arabian peninsula for quite some time - the Himyar Kingdom was religiously Jewish. The Christians of Najran are also worth pointing to. Under the persecution of the Jews, nearly 4,000 of them were martyred less than a century before Muhammad was born. Even in Muhammad's hometown of Mecca, there were Christians. His wife Khadija's cousin, Waraqah ibn Nawfal, was said to be a 'Christian' and even read the Scriptures and translated some into Arabic. In the Kaaba it is reported in Ibn Ishaq and in al-Waqidi that there was a portrait of the Theotokos and Jesus that Muhammad did not take down when he reconquered Mecca late in his prophetic career. Muhammad was thus living in a context where he personally knew Christians, and interacted with Christians, and traveled through semi-Christianized, semi-Judaized societies. The idea that Arabia was a complete pagan backwater is an Islamic myth.
>>18134 >the monk Bahira Is this the Arian monk John Damascene mentions?
>>17423 This >>17570 LGBTQ people are savage brute beasts worthy of death. Go kys homo pedophile.
>>18144 >Is this the Arian monk John Damascene mentions? Yes. He's also known as Sergius in the Christian traditions such as that of Abd al-Masih al-Kindi, who as a Christian apologist. There seems to be ambivalence on whether he was some sort of radical Nestorian, or whether he was an Arian, though.
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God always chose the faithful who lived in a state of grace to spread his word. Never has God chosen a moon worshiping pagan and land pirate.

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