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Anonymous 07/29/2022 (Fri) 06:25:10 No.15035
Personally i am a Christian but this image stumps me, If God already knows our future why would he need to test us? Along with other common arguments for the existence of God and the problem of evil. It's not perfect but there is some good arguments there. Do any of you have any counter arguments, specifically to "If God already knows our future why would he need to test us"? I heard from an apologist about a book about freewill called "Chosen but free" on predestination vs Freewill, has any one here read it?
>>15035 there is a purpose for God to test us despite knowing what we're going to do. The purpose is to "progress the timeline" so to speak. God needs us (for whatever reason) to do or say something/make a decision so he presents us with a test. Adam and Eve is a great example of this, God knew that eventually they would sin so He created the tree of knowledge of good and evil so that He could better control their downfall, for the same reason He created satan. atleast thats my theory
>>15037 This is Just speculation, but It could be that because he loves us that he wants to be there when we do make our decisions, even though he already knows what we're going to do.
At the risk of making the most cringe comparison of all time. I unironically use an episode of Rick and Morty (S02E06) to frame these kinds of questions. Any action the Creator takes *within* the existence He creates is entirely just as the creation is the property of the Creator. Whether or not those actions would be just outside of that existence are irrelevant to you and me.
>>15035 God is on another level. To explain in simple terms, it's like He has an infinitely infinite IQ, or something. Analyzing and "judging" His actions like he has a human mind simply doesn't make any sense. He's God, not just an immortal human with infinite power and knowledge. You just CAN'T know better than Him. That cancels out 999999% of redditard gaytheists arguments like pic related.
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>>15035 >>15037 God sure knows our results even before we are tested, but we don't.
>>15035 this mage severely misunderstands what "testing" is supposed to mean. It isn't to find the answer to a query, but to further a person's development via hardship.
>>15035 God is gigachad and doesn't care what you think. He's based and knows what's based for you. Anything else is cringe.
>>15037 >atleast thats my theory Peddling heresy i see.
>>15067 >heretic >heretic >heretic if your only argument is "hErEtIc!1!1!11" then your opinion is truly worthless.
>>15079 you are no different than the gnostics, ebionites, docetists and muslims that came before you, you weave threads of lies to lead the simple minded folk away from Christ. Anathema
>>15083 you keep saying that im "lying" or that im a "heretic" but have not even made an attempt at proving. could this perhaps be because im not lying and am not a heretic? We'll never know because i doubt youll ever discuss in good faith.
>>15089 TL;DR
>>15035 >He would know what we would do We wouldnt and we'd have a Paradise with people with various degrees of holiness for no reason as no deeds were done, so it would not be just. Justice needs deeds to act on. Also giving out rewards for no deeds is beta, forging the soul's virtues and sanctity under fire and tribulation is alpha, and glorifies God. Imagine the Last Judgement, with all the good that people did for God coming to light, how much glory what will give Him.
>>15117 >saved by deeds begone satan go back to /islam/
>>15117 >what is original sin Lmao the whole point of the Bible is dealing with the fact that when man was given a paradise he threw it away at his own discretion at the urging of woman and the devil
>>15120 how does original sin contradict what i wrote? the world of tribulation and fire is consequence of that. >>15118 there are plenty of verses about reward according to deeds, there is no commie heaven of equality. There will be souls towering over us in glory.
>evil exists It does not. Not in the way you think of it.
>>15122 >how does original sin contradict what i wrote? >the world of tribulation and fire is consequence of that. Man can't have a Paradise on his own terms without God
>>15035 Genesis 1 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it] was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Genesis 6 12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. 13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. Leviticus 26 27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; 28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. Joshua 24 14 Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD. 15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. Jeremiah 6 16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where [is] the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk [therein]. 17 Also I set watchmen over you, [saying], Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken. 18 Therefore hear, ye nations, and know, O congregation, what is among them. 19 Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it. Isaiah 45 5 I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]. 8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it. 9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! [Let] the potsherd [strive] with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? 10 Woe unto him that saith unto [his] father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth? Psalms 9 17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. Evil exists because we live in a fallen world full of disobedience to the Creator. As for freewill, it depends how that is defined. The pharaoh's heart was hardened, but we also see choices presented to people either to return to God or the choice to reject this calling and continue in the path of unrighteousness. It's clear that our will isn't entirely free from the Creator's will as ours cannot even come close to matching or surpassing His, our will wouldn't even exist without the will of God. And in my opinion from the discussions I've had on this, it seems like "freewill" and "omniscience" as the basis for the argument is usually used to replace or possibly even subvert the fact that we either choose to serve God or we choose to serve sin.
>>15228 >The pharaoh's heart was hardened, ive heard alot of conversation about the whole pharaohs heart was hardened thing. I think what it meant was that pharaohs heart was emboldened in his actions which he had already decided, a pride before the fall type thing
>>15228 Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version reads, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” How does Isaiah 45:7 agree with the view that God did not create evil? There are two key facts that need to be considered. (1) The word translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery.” Notice how the other major English Bible translations render the word: “disaster” (NIV, HCSB), “calamity” (NKJV, NAS, ESV), and “woe” (NRSV). The Hebrew word can refer to moral evil, and often does have this meaning in the Hebrew Scriptures. However, due to the diversity of possible definitions, it is unwise to assume that “I create evil” in Isaiah 45:7 refers to God bringing moral evil into existence. (2) The context of Isaiah 45:7 makes it clear that something other than “bringing moral evil into existence” is in mind. The context of Isaiah 45:7 is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishing Israel for disobedience. God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who quarrels with his Master” (Isaiah 45:9). That is the person to whom God brings “evil” and “disaster.” So, rather than saying that God created “moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture – that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against Him. >The pharaoh's heart was hardened The pharaoh's heart has hardened before God hardened it further, he was a sinful person, God wasn't effecting his freewill. God can influence us without effecting our freewill.
>>15195 i didnt talk about man made Paradises though.
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>>15241 Good, because a lot of people think that man made paradise is possible in this depraved world.
>>15039 hmm, never thought of it like that.

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