/christian/ - Christianity

Discussion of Christianity, the Church, and theology

SAVE THIS FILE: Anon.cafe Fallback File v1.1 (updated 2021-12-13)

Want your event posted here? Requests accepted in this /meta/ thread.

Max message length: 20000

Drag files to upload or
click here to select them

Maximum 5 files / Maximum size: 20.00 MB

Captcha
no cookies?
Board Rules
More

(used to delete files and postings)


John 3:16 KJV: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Open file (247.77 KB 800x1420 Religious Values Test.png)
Anonymous 07/22/2022 (Fri) 06:12:11 No.14460
https://bannnedb.github.io/Religious-values-test/ Take this test to see where you stand religiously.
Open file (220.45 KB 800x1200 October 12, 2021.png)
>>14460 I took this text last year. Don't know if I changed much since then.
Christ is King
Open file (252.59 KB 800x1420 download (1).png)
>>14478 i would not describe myself as a protestant but ok
Edited last time by AntichristHater on 07/22/2022 (Fri) 16:03:15.
>>14473 almost the same as op. >>14477 damn 100% anti-pagan. >>14478 Time to learn why Hinduism is evil.
Open file (126.90 KB 529x868 reilgion test.png)
>>14486 Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Open file (85.41 KB 901x455 ClipboardImage.png)
>>14486 the synagogue of satan died 2,000 years ago along with the Pharisees in Smyrna.
>>14460 >data-mining thread
>>14491 The 'synagogue of Satan' is any institution which at some time was dedicated to true religion but has become false which, yes Shabbos, includes the Jews.
>>14496 yeah pretty much. the original context of the phrase was referring to the Jews of Smyrna who persecuted Christians tho.
>>14490 And we wrestle against them with our physical bodies which are temples to God.
Open file (243.62 KB 800x1420 religious values test.png)
Get on my level, you plebs.
>>14515 ok the 100% didactic was actually based as fuck tho
>>14513 Whats your point? Our enemies are still spiritual.
Open file (246.64 KB 800x1420 download.png)
Looks like most of us are similar to each other.
>>14730 >papist >looks favorably on hinduism and other pagan idolatry (shocking) >test itself gives you labels like "pantheist" and "secular hindu" Yes, I'd say you are similar to each other! Popery not even once!!!
>>14842 Well it says neutral which is fair I guess because I checked that they shouldn't be persecuted, faith out of free will is much better out of being forced. Polytheistic religions are still better than atheism because they can teach some good values that often don't contradict christianity.
>>14848 >Well it says neutral which is fair I guess because I checked that they shouldn't be persecuted God said to the false gods "An abomination is he who chooses you" >faith out of free will is much better out of being forced It isn't about forcing conversions. The Church is called holy, she is to be filled with saints not false believers. That does not mean it is in the least bit acceptable to commit the worst sin possible; true religion should not be forced but false religion must not be tolerated, "If there arise among you a Prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and give thee a sign or wonder, And the sign and the wonder, which he hath told thee, come to pass saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them, Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of the prophet, or unto that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul. Ye shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him, and shall keep his commandments, and hearken unto his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. But that Prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, he shall be slain, because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and delivered you out of the house of bondage to thrust thee out of the way, wherein the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk: so shalt thou take the evil away forth of the midst of thee."
Christianity is what I would like to believe. But, Atheism feels like my true belief. A fact I dislike. I believe I have the "curse" as defined by the knight in Ingmar Bergman's film: The Seventh Seal. As in: I want to believe, but I find myself unable to do so. I perceive myself as having no true religious principles; only various senses of what I felt, felt right or reasonable when a certain religious or spiritual idea was presented to me. I have no idea what Christian sect is in the right theologically. But I want one or several of them to be so.
>>14862 >I want to believe, but I find myself unable to do so. The Lord Jesus said "Knock and you shall be answered, seek and you shall find". Therefore if this is true say this prayer with sincerity: "Lord, I believe, help me with my unbelief" and live in light of it.
>>14864 Transphobia is a mortal sin, go confess to a priest your thoughtcrime
Open file (14.50 KB 526x115 ClipboardImage.png)
>>14864 Rule 5.
Open file (200.99 KB 630x1122 ClipboardImage.png)
It's about what I expected.
Open file (185.12 KB 642x1131 ClipboardImage.png)
The description calls this hypothetical man a pantheist, but really: what is he?
>>14868 incredibly retarded. thats what he is
Open file (202.17 KB 634x1121 atheist theocrat.png)
>>14869 I have an even better one for you.
>>14528 Just because our enemies are spiritual doesn't mean they are immune to physical resistance.
>>14713 >%100 islamophobic Based >>14730 >pantheistic Why are you even here? >>14861 >It isn't about forcing conversions. The Church is called holy, she is to be filled with saints not false believers. That does not mean it is in the least bit acceptable to commit the worst sin possible; true religion should not be forced but false religion must not be tolerated Based Prautismo
>>14872 most (99%) of humans are good at heart, id be willing to bet that most of the people in power against us probably think that what theyre doing is for the betterment of the world.
>>14873 >Why are you even here? To shitpost obviously.
>>14878 >most (99%) of humans are good at heart Have you ever read the bible?
(P.S. these Hitler trips were predestined before the foundation of the world)
>>14887 Have you?
>>14898 What then? Are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
>>14900 theres a difference between being a bad person and committing sin. Thats what i was getting at.
>>14901 The entire point of the entire Book of Romans up to that point is that they commit sins because they are bad people. If an unbeliever is not as bad as they could be it is not because there is something positive about their nature but because of the hand of God holding them back and restraining their evil.
Open file (90.76 KB 939x261 ClipboardImage.png)
>>14902 im assuming youre referencing this part of Romans and sections similar to it? In which case my earlier point still stands. Gods existence is prevalent in nature but most people reject Him either because they are indoctrinated from childhood or during some other point in their life or because they give into their desires, or historically due to deception put forth by the devil. These people still arent bad people theyre just corrupted, much like how a rusty tool isnt a bad tool it just needs a little cleaning.
>>14903 >most people reject Him Most? Try again. >because they are indoctrinated from childhood or during some other point in their life or because they give into their desires, or historically due to deception put forth by the devil. Is that what Romans 1:18-32 says? Or is it because they are wicked men who in unrighteousness suppress the truth, exchanging the truth of God for a lie and worshipping and serving the creation instead of the creator who is blessed forever? You should read that scripture you posted again and ask yourself if you believe it >These people still arent bad people theyre just corrupted, much like how a rusty tool isnt a bad tool it just needs a little cleaning. Their throats are an open grave, the poison of asps is under their lips, their feet are swift to shed blood, there is no fear of God before their eyes.
Open file (38.85 KB 962x126 ClipboardImage.png)
>>14904 >Is that what Romans 1:18-32 says? Or is it because they are wicked men who in unrighteousness suppress the truth, exchanging the truth of God for a lie and worshipping and serving the creation instead of the creator who is blessed forever? the actual scripture (straight greek to english translation btw) calls them "foolish" not wicked. and makes no mention of them "suppressing the truth" although i can imagine someone doing that to cover for their own desires. >Their throats are an open grave, the poison of asps is under their lips, their feet are swift to shed blood, there is no fear of God before their eyes. yet again, they are corrupted, they are not evil. You have countless recounts of people falling into sin and then working their way back out and vice versa, this does not scream "HUMANS ARE EVIL" this screams "HUMANS ARE CORRUPTIBLE". Lets keep in mind that evil is nothing more than opposition to God, there is no eternal Evil deity like in popular mythology, believing that would imply you either believe that God created another god named "Evil" or that more gods than God exist which is completely against the Bible. morally humans are neutral, swaying from side to side, but in our hearts we have a natural desire to do good, either by ourselves, by our families, or by the rest of society. That desire to do good, paired with other factors such as the foolish minds described in the Bible and temptations and influence from the devil often cause us to commit harmful or self destructive acts, this does not negate the intentions for doing them.
>>14907 Cope coming from the guy who willing puts 69 in his name
>>14911 >he doesnt know
>>14842 Hindoos are based
>>14915 >being an occultist Give a good reason for using that number besides a lewd joke
>>14980 >joke theres youre reason
>>14981 Repent
>>14981 I also think you should change your name to something less perverse like antichristhater missionary.
>>14992 its "AntichristHater69" because my original name was "AntichristHaterFortnitePlayer69". So its an inside joke.
Open file (149.26 KB 337x672 Huh - Manga Question.png)
>>14863 >and live in light of it. I'm sorry, but what does that even mean?
>>14994 You are concerning others, kid
>>14491 >Half the posts he's responding to are deleted What is this /leftypol/ all over again?
>>15535 it was all just inflammatory bait, i removed a bunch of my own posts for the same reason, desperate times called for (key word "called") desperate measures.
>>15535 Some posts deserve to be deleted, freedom of speech doesn't mean you have freedom from consequences.
>>15490 Act like you believe it.
>>15549 >freedom of speech doesn't mean you have freedom from consequences So it's /leftypol/ all over again
>>15555 it was just lowqual bait, it only really served to cause conflict on the board.
>>14907 >straight greek to english translation btw Well aren't they all? I'm not sure what the point is even supposed to be >calls them "foolish" not wicked. and makes no mention of them "suppressing the truth" One should always when challenged theologically by the citation of any given scripture pull up the full passage. When one does not do this it is somewhat clear that they are not appropriately dealing with the text for one reason or another. And it is clear that one is not doing this when they fail to notice a verse that is three verses away from the one that came up when they googled the text that was quoted. Obviously the verse being referenced when I spoke of the wickedness of men and their suppression of the truth verse 18, not verse 21. So in this particular context why is it we have dealt disrespectfully with the text and missed the obvious? Because we have been influenced by a vain human philosophy which prevents us from believing what the bible says. It is essential for a Christian to let themselves be challenged by God's word, be willing to lay such traditions aside and embrace the teaching of scripture without hesitation so that we may be led by the hand by the Holy Spirit. >they are corrupted, they are not evil. And there we see it again we can't believe that because we have this human tradition that would contradict this (in this case human free will). They certainly are corrupted, and what is corrupted is their very nature so that being evil they despise their creator and all that is good. I'm sorry you don't like what the bible says, but that doesn't make it go away. So which would you rather believe? What the bible says, or what you say? >morally humans are neutral, swaying from side to side, but in our hearts we have a natural desire to do good And there you go the text has ceased to exist and been replaced with some unrealistic philosophical garbage that is fundamentally irreconcilable with it. Even though the entire purpose of the text is to establish that men are so naturally wicked that they are utterly dependent upon the righteousness of Christ (not their own righteousness) to stand before God, we overthrow this core teaching because it is inconsistent with the tradition which we have received and throw the whole thrust of the apostle's argument out of whack. The text says "There is no fear of God before their eyes", but he says "They are naturally good". Ye make the words of God of none effect by your traditions of men.
>>15664 the problem with your assertion is that you say humans are naturally evil. A being which is naturally evil cannot love God or go to Heaven. Furthermore the existence of free will (which you referenced) also proves that humans are not naturally evil as free will implies a choice. People choose to be evil. They arent born wanting to be evil, they given into the temptations and thus become corrupted.
>>15671 >free will >implying Jesus forgives because He sees that humanity is stuck being evil without Him. Else if there are any human beings, even one, that can live a perfect life it proves that there can be salvation without Jesus. We know that there is no salvation without Jesus, so all must be miserable sinners without God.
>>14878 Thinking evil is good is grounds for execution tbh
>>14865 Yeah, because the popes always acting like the best catholic ever. No wonder this board sucks
>>14878 Thinking good is evil is grounds for execution tbh
Open file (22.85 KB 324x660 fags.png)
Most sites are for faggots:
>>15554 Thank you!
Open file (251.00 KB 800x1420 test.png)
>>14460 i could've got higher orthodox metric if it wasn't geared towards eastern orthodox and not oriental orthodox. many of the definitions in it are natural to us but without specific words
>>16227 oriental and eastern are synonyms
>>15800 >>16227 LOOK AT THE PICTURE!!! See the skull, the part of bone removed, the "master-race" Frankenstein radio controls, the Brain-thoughts Broadcasting Radio, the Eyesight Television, the Frankenstein Earphone Radio, the Threshold Brainwash Radio, the latest new skull reforming to contain ALL Frankenstein Controls, even in THIN skulls of WHITE PEDIGREE MALES! Visible Frankenstein controls! The synthetic nerve-radio directional antennae loop! Make copies for yourself! There is NO ESCAPE from this worst gangster police state, using ALL of the deadly gangster Frankenstein controls! In 1965, CIA gangster police BEAT ME BLOODY, dragged me IN CHAINS from Kennedy New York Airport! Since then I HIDE in forced jobless poverty, isolated alone in this low deadly niggertown old house. The brazen, deadly Gangster Police and niggerpuppet underlings spray me with POISON NERVE GAS from automobile exhausts and even lawnmowers! DEADLY ASSAULTS, even in my yard with knives, even bricks and stones, even DEADLY TOUCH TABIN or ELECTRIC SHOCK FLASHLIGHTS; even remote electronically controlled around-corners-projection of DEADLY TOUCH TARANTULA SPIDERS or even bloody-murder "accidents" to shut me up forever with a Sneak Undetectable Extermination! Even with trained parroting puppet assassins in MAXIMUM SECURITY INSANITY PRISON for writing these unforgivable TRUTHS!! Until my undetectable extermination, I, Francis E. Dec, esq., 29 Maple Avenue, Hampstead, New York, I STAND ALONE against your mad, deadly, worldwide conspiratorial Gangster Computer God Communism with wall-to-wall deadly Gangster protection, life-long sworn conspirators, Murder Incorporated, organized crime, the police and judges, the Deadly Sneak Parroting Puppet Gangsters using all the Gangster deadly Frankenstein controls! These hangmanrope sneak deadly gangsters, the judges and the police, trick, trap, rob, wreck, butcher, and MURDER the people to keep them TERRORIZED in Gangster Frankenstein earphone radio slavery for the Communist Gangster Government and con-artist Parroting Puppet Gangster-playboy scum-on-top! The secret work of all police, in order to maintain a Communist "closed society"! The same worldwide mad deadly Communist gangster computer god that controls YOU as a terrorized Gangster Frankenstein Earphone Radio slave! Parroting Puppet, you are a terrorized member of the "MASTER RACE" worldwide 4 BILLION eye-sight television camera guinea pig Communist Gangster Computer God MASTER RACE! You're LIVING, THINKING mad, deadly worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God SECRET OVERALL PLAN: WORLDWIDE LIVING DEATH FRANKENSTEIN SLAVERY to explore and control the ENTIRE UNIVERSE with the endless "STAIRWAY TO THE STARS" - namely the manmade inside-out planets with nucleonic powered speeds MUCH faster than the speed of light! Look up and see the Gangster Computer God concocted NEW FAKE STARRY SKY! The worldwide completely controlled deadly degenerative climate and atmosphere through the new world round Translucent Exotic Gaseous Envelope which the worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God MANIPULATES through countless exactly positioned satellites; THE NEW FAKE PHONY "STARS" IN THE SYNTHETIC "SKY"!! For AGES before Frankenstein Controls apeoidic niggers interbreedable with APES had no alphabet, not even NUMERALS! Slavery conspiracy over 300 years ago ideally tiny-brained apeoidic nigger Gangster government Eyesight TV Gangster spy cameras, Computer God New World Order DEGENERATION! When "gifted" with all Gangster Frankenstein controls, nigger deadly Gangster Parroting Puppet or niggertrained PROGRAMMED ROBOTS DEADLY APE-FRANKENSTEIN MACHINES!! Degenerative disease to ETERNAL Frankenstein slavery!! Overall plan through "ONE WORLD COMMUNISM" (Top Secret codeword!!!) meaning "worldwide absolutely helpless-and-hopeless simple-languaged mongrel-mulatto- apeoidic NIGGERS"!! Worldwide, systematic instant plastic surgery BUTCHERY MURDER, fake ageing so ALL people are dead or useless by age 70! Done at night to YOU as a Frankenstein slave! Parroting puppet Gangster slave, now even you know I am a MENACE to your worldwide, mad, deadly Communist Gangster Computer God! Therefore, I must go to extermination. Before I am exterminated by this gangster, Computer God concocted and controlled worst mongrel organized crime murder incorporated Gangster Communist government, I hand YOU the secrets to save the entire human race, and the entire UNIVERSE! Donate money, or even a manual typewriter to me, FOR YOUR ONLY HOPE FOR A FUTURE!!
>>16229 Based
>>16229 Those would be some sick song lyrics.
Open file (249.11 KB 800x1420 descarga.png)
Protestants get the rope.
>>17646 D&C shills get the firing squad.
Open file (298.05 KB 698x530 zoomer tradcath.png)
I guess I flipped this idea around. Rather than looking for the religion that suits my beliefs, I looked for what God told me is true.
Wacky
>>18815 I would say this is decently accurate :3 but unfortunately the questions are worded terribly. For example if I don't believe there was ever a covenant between "God" and the Jews can I respond to "God's covenant with the Jews is still in affect." The test was clearly made by a fundamentalist Christian and intended for fundamentalist Christians. Some of the questions about Satanism also were kind of head scratchers and probably miss the point of actual Satanist theology entirely. A more minor gripe is how the creator of the test frequently switches between positive statements and negative statements as things to respond to so one question strongly agree might mean approving of the popes of Catholicism and then the next strongly agree might mean disapproving the patriarchs of eastern orthodoxy. Also interesting that a presumably fundamentalist Christian author would create a test that so conspicuously excludes gnostics or other new religion type Christianity where the beliefs don't align with either of the 3 major groups. They're not even considered pagans or protestants here.
>>18817 Gnosticism has been a dead religion for a thousand years, why would it be on it?
Open file (245.62 KB 1593x1593 not thinking.jpg)
>>18820 There is a large base of contemporary gnostics out there, cutie. People enticed by mystical Christianity beginning to despise the rigid uncreativeness and perceived nonsense of the mainline beliefs. I'm shocked you don't know about it since most zealous e-Christians are infatuated with it and other "heresies" that present themselves outwardly as Christian but in truth aren't.
>>18828 3 shitposters on imageboards is not a "large base"
>>18829 I don't know what you're referencing, doll, but I don't get it. Perhaps you should try not making shit up; you'd be a lot prettier that way.
Open file (358.05 KB 910x1667 Secularist.png)
It fits well
>>18845 Wow, those are very secular results indeed.
>>17646 >Threats of murder. Divisive bait?
Open file (126.23 KB 1411x819 ClipboardImage.png)
I'm liking it.
>>18866 It's just standard course for the heathens, they really hate Christ and all who follow him instead of the world or silly men in silly robes like the boylover pope.
Open file (554.53 KB 1800x2560 download.png)
https://prismquiz.github.io/ Now try this quiz and see what politics you get.
Open file (224.38 KB 820x1440 ClipboardImage.png)
>>21181 On today's episode of wacky fringe ideologies, Theocratic Collectivism & Egoism
Open file (648.13 KB 1800x2560 ClipboardImage.png)
Open file (401.19 KB 1400x590 boys-on-road-dy.jpg)
>>21196 That feel when no modern era of Amish-like Christian society with no government.
Open file (49.28 KB 326x527 Screenshot (132).png)
Open file (620.34 KB 1800x2560 download.png)
Open file (179.90 KB 485x862 20221203_094238.jpg)
wassup
As expected mostly, but why's it add "phobic" just for believing other religions are untrue. And I have much less respect for Jews than Muslims. And don't know where 11% satanic came from.
Open file (528.24 KB 1800x2560 Prism Quiz.png)
Open file (249.16 KB 800x1420 Religious Values Map.png)
>>14460 >>21181 Where's my Christian Anarchist utopia, dang it?
Open file (10.51 KB 1500x1000 Pacifist Anarchist Flag.jpg)
>>22011 It's really quite simple, anon. >War is murder >Taxation is theft >Police are a gang of thugs >Politicians are agents of the devil >Anyone with the red flag gets the boot >Don't take people's stuff and don't hurt them >Blessed are the peacemakers
>>22017 >Anti-Anarchy Boomer-tier understanding of philosophy. >Goods and services don't drop out of the sky And the 30% cut for the big guy doesn't magically make it happen. >ACAB BLM shit Go look at Philly and tell me who's protecting the people. Public police taking a cut off the top, or private armed guards and private citizens with an interest in protecting their communities? Try calling the police and see what happens. >Only Trusting a politician is like thinking the stripper actually likes you. >literally the opposite of anarchy B.O.O.M.E.R. please, your dusty moods don't jive with me. >peace is not possible without good authorities Authority doesn't come from the state. Keep living in fantasy-land instead of being whitepilled about the state of the world and God's plan. No masters except God and the natural hierarchy of man are the path to salvation. The Kingdom of Heaven is within you.
>>22028 I said red flags get the boot. Do you really want to go the muttposting route, anon? What would our lord and saviour Jesus Christ (an anti-authoritarian, arguably an anarchist) think about you engaging in such petty behavior? How can you have the authoritarian boot on your neck happily and slovenly while being part of a religion that promotes the natural authority of man in servitude to THE LORD over that of the state? Be the better man. Our conversation is done here if this is what Satan has reduced you to and I hope you can find Christ. I have no interest in Christian LARPers.
Facebook quiz-taker mentality thread. Why do people love filling out data mining surveys? Is it vanity or naivety?
>>22017 >TLDR Larp harder closet pedo Oh, look, a fed.
>>22037 It's likely boredom and anons wanting someone to talk to. These give anons something to discuss.
>>22010 >>22013 >>22019 Christian Anarchism sounds cool but you always have to compromise either the Anarchist side or the Christian side. Even if you decide to be a law abiding anarchist other anarchist will never accept social conservatism and will defend the sin of homosexuality, abortion and "worldly" transgenderism. You're always going to be "the man" to them.
>>22074 >Anarchist Christian How can you be an anarchist in a religion with a little law code built into it?
>>22080 *Literal
>>22074 >And it cannot be proved, as the champions of the state maintain, that the destruction of government involves a social chaos, mutual spoliation and murder, the destruction of all social institutions, and the return of mankind to barbarism. Nor can it be proved as the opponents of government maintain that men have already become so wise and good that they will not spoil or murder one another, but will prefer peaceful associations to hostilities; that of their own accord, unaided by the state, they will make all the arrangements that they need, and that therefore government, far from being any aid, under show of guarding men exerts a pernicious and brutalizing influence over them. It is impossible to prove either of these contentions by abstract reasoning. Still less possible is it to prove them by experiment, since the whole matter turns on the question, ought we to try the experiment? The question whether or not the time has come to make an end of government would be unanswerable, except that there exists another living means of settling it beyond dispute. [. . .] >"It may well be that government was necessary and is still necessary for all the advantages which you attribute to it," says the man who has mastered the Christian theory of life. "I only know that on the one hand, government is no longer necessary for ME, and on the other hand, I can no longer carry out the measures that are necessary to the existence of a government. Settle for yourselves what you need for your life. I cannot prove the need or the harm of governments in general. I know only what I need and do not need, what I can do and what I cannot. I know that I do not need to divide myself off from other nations, and therefore I cannot admit that I belong exclusively to any state or nation, or that I owe allegiance to any government. I know that I do not need all the government institutions organized within the state, and therefore I cannot deprive people who need my labor to give it in the form of taxes to institutions which I do not need, which for all I know may be pernicious. I know that I have no need of the administration or of courts of justice founded upon force, and therefore I can take no part in either. I know that I do not need to attack and slaughter other nations or to defend myself from them with arms, and therefore I can take no part in wars or preparations for wars. It may well be that there are people who cannot help regarding all this as necessary and indispensable. I cannot dispute the question with them, I can only speak for myself; but I can say with absolute certainty that I do not need it, and that I cannot do it. And I do not need this and I cannot do it, not because such is my own, my personal will, but because such is the will of him who sent me into life, and gave me an indubitable law for my conduct through life." >Whatever arguments may be advanced in support of the contention that the suppression of government authority would be injurious and would lead to great calamities, men who have once outgrown the governmental form of society cannot go back to it again. And all the reasoning in the world cannot make the man who has outgrown the governmental form of society take part in actions disallowed by his conscience, any more than the full-grown bird can be made to return into the egg-shell. [. . .] >"If the power of government is suppressed the more wicked will oppress the less wicked," say the champions of state authority. But when the Egyptians conquered the Jews, the Romans conquered the Greeks, and the Barbarians conquered the Romans, is it possible that all the conquerors were always better than those they conquered? And the same with the transitions of power within a state from one personage to another: has the power always passed from a worse person to a better one? When Louis XVI. was removed and Robespierre came to power, and afterward Napoleon -- who ruled then, a better man or a worse? And when were better men in power, when the Versaillist party or when the Commune was in power? When Charles I. was ruler, or when Cromwell? And when Peter III. was Tzar, or when he was killed and Catherine was Tzaritsa in one-half of Russia and Pougachef ruled the other? Which was bad then, and which was good? All men who happen to be in authority assert that their authority is necessary to keep the bad from oppressing the good, assuming that they themselves are the good PAR EXCELLENCE, who protect other good people from the bad. >But ruling means using force, and using force means doing to him to whom force is used, what he does not like and what he who uses the force would certainly not like done to himself. Consequently ruling means doing to others what we would we would not they should do unto us, that is, doing wrong. >To submit means to prefer suffering to using force. And to prefer suffering to using force means to be good, or at least less wicked than those who do unto others what they would not like themselves. >And therefore, in all probability, not the better but the worse have always ruled and are ruling now. There may be bad men among those who are ruled, but it cannot be that those who are better have generally ruled those who are worse. >It might be possible to suppose this with the inexact heathen definition of good; but with the clear Christian definition of good and evil, it is impossible to imagine it. >If the more or less good, and the more or less bad cannot be distinguished in the heathen world, the Christian conception of good and evil has so clearly defined the characteristics of the good and the wicked, that it is impossible to confound them. According to Christ's teaching the good are those who are meek and long-suffering, do not resist evil by force, forgive injuries, and love their enemies; those are wicked who exalt themselves, oppress, strive, and use force. Therefore by Christ's teaching there can be no doubt whether the good are to be found among rulers or ruled, and whether the wicked are among the ruled or the rulers. Indeed it is absurd even to speak of Christians ruling. >Non-Christians, that is those who find the aim of their lives in earthly happiness, must always rule Christians, the aim of whose lives is the renunciation of such earthly happiness. >This difference has always existed and has become more and more defined as the Christian religion has been more widely diffused and more correctly understood. >The more widely true Christianity was diffused and the more it penetrated men's conscience, the more impossible it was for Christians to be rulers, and the easier it became for non- Christians to rule them. >"To get rid of governmental violence in a society in which all are not true Christians, will only result in the wicked dominating the good and oppressing them with impunity," say the champions of the existing order of things. But it has never been, and cannot be otherwise. So it has always been from the beginning of the world, and so it is still. THE WICKED WILL ALWAYS DOMINATE THE GOOD, AND WILL ALWAYS OPPRESS THEM. [. . .] >So that whether governmental violence is suppressed or not, the position of good men, in being oppressed by the wicked, will be unchanged. >To terrify men with the prospect of the wicked dominating the good is impossible, for that is just what has always been, and is now, and cannot but be. >The whole history of pagan times is nothing but a recital of the incidents and means by which the more wicked gained possession of power over the less wicked, and retained it by cruelties and deceptions, ruling over the good under the pretense of guarding the right and protecting the good from the wicked. All the revolutions in history are only examples of the more wicked seizing power and oppressing the good. In declaring that if their authority did not exist the more wicked would oppress the good, the ruling authorities only show their disinclination to let other oppressors come to power who would like to snatch it from them. >But in asserting this they only accuse themselves, say that their power, i. e., violence, is needed to defend men from other possible oppressors in the present or the future >The weakness of the use of violence lies in the fact that all the arguments brought forward by oppressors in their own defense can with even better reason be advanced against them. They plead the danger of violence -- most often imagined in the future -- but they are all the while continuing to practice actual violence themselves. "You say that men used to pillage and murder in the past, and that you are afraid that they will pillage and murder one another if your power were no more. That may happen -- or it may not happen. But the fact that you ruin thousands of men in prisons, fortresses, galleys, and exile, break up millions of families and ruin millions of men, physically as well as morally, in the army, that fact is not an imaginary but a real act of violence, which, according to your own argument, one ought to oppose by violence. And so you are yourselves these wicked men against whom, according to your own argument, it is absolutely necessary to use violence," the oppressed are sure to say to their oppressors. And non-Christian men always do say, and think and act on this reasoning. If the oppressed are more wicked than their oppressors, they attack them and try to overthrow them; and in favorable circumstances they succeed in overthrowing them, or what is more common, they rise into the ranks of the oppressors and assist in their acts of violence. >So that the very violence which the champions of government hold up as a terror -- pretending that except for its oppressive power the wicked would oppress the good -- has really always existed and will exist in human society. And therefore the suppression of state violence cannot in any case be the cause of increased oppression of the good by the wicked. >If state violence ceased, there would be acts of violence perhaps on the part of different people, other than those who had done deeds of violence before. But the total amount of violence could not in any case be increased by the mere fact of power passing from one set of men to another. -Leo Tolstoy >>22080 The Christian structure is a voluntary one and always has been. You simply misunderstand the machinations of men who lust for power in nominally Christian nations as being the heads of Christianity rather than one fornicating in his own power. If you believe that Christianity must be brought about at gunpoint and with cages then you believe in the opposite of Christ's teachings. If you believe only because you are at the tip of the sword or believe you brought Christianity at the tip of a sword, you were never a Christian in the first place and you have converted nobody; you've only made a mockery of the faith. Jesus preached Christianity in spite of being at odds with the law as did his flock.
Perhaps it's about time I just made a Christian Anarchism thread.
>>22080 There is a whole youtube channel dedicated to understanding Christain Anarchist https://www.youtube.com/@RadicalReformationChristianity/videos >>22087 >Tolstoy >'''"The dogma that all the governments of the world are approvingly ordained of God, and that the powers that be in the United States, in Russia, in Turkey, are in accordance with his will, is no less absurd than impious. It makes the impartial Author of our existence unequal and tyrannical'''. It cannot be affirmed that the powers that be in any nation are actuated by the spirit or guided by the example of Christ in the treatment of enemies; therefore they cannot be agreeable to the will of God, and therefore their overthrow by a spiritual regeneration of their subjects is inevitable. I started reading The Kingdom of God is Within You and he proudly goes against scripture, he completely compromises the Christian part of a Christian Anarchist. I stopped reading after that.
>>22074 Nice greentext screencap you PWNED him!!
>>22092 You mean justifying something that is unjustifiable?
>>22092 >Posts a red flag left-anarchist channel >"Tolstoy isn't a Christian" You know I'm still working through his works but somehow I don't believe you. >>22098 Sometimes it's better to quote an expert on a subject than to try and explain it in simple words that will be dismissed or taken out-of-context.
>>22107 >redflag He's not a communist if that's what you mean. If Tolstoy is a Christian then why does he go against Scripture?

Report/Delete/Moderation Forms
Delete
Report

no cookies?