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John 3:16 KJV: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


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Evangelizing the Jews Anonymous 09/07/2022 (Wed) 00:52:08 ID: f02acc No.17577
ITT: post resources and advice for refuting the Jewish religion and demonstrating that the Christian religion is the religion of the Tanakh. Real Messiah youtube channel (Rev. Dr. Michael Brown answers Jewish objections to Jesus): https://youtube.com/c/RealMessiah/videos Particularly good vid from the above, "Psalm 22 does not speak of death by crucifixion" https://youtu.be/5QdbLUKhVcE One For Israel youtube channel (Israeli Christians make arguments and counter-arguments against Judaism, also many testimonies from Jewish converts to Christianity) https://youtube.com/c/ONEFORISRAEL Some personal tips for evangelizing Jews from my own experience: firstly recognize that the Jews come in a few categories. Jewish atheists are not relevant to this thread, they should be dealt with as any other atheist. Some Jews will view Jesus as a wise rabbi, most who oppose you will view Him as a sorcerer (this should not surprise you as we see much the same division between the unbelieving Jews in the gospels). Some Jews will be more or less informed about their religion and ours, but the ones to watch out for are those (typically orthodox but probably at least conservative) who are highly educated on this topic and make it their mission to oppose you, the counter-missionaries. You ought to be well read yourself in theology and the Old Testament before you argue with them. Isaiah 53 is generally not the best place to start, not because it is a weak point for us or that it does not actually point to Jesus but because the counter-missionaries can reply to it in their sleep, you won't get anywhere by getting the opposition to rehearse. Your best bet is to 1. demonstrate the inconsistencies of the Jewish religion with the Old Testament scriptures and 2. hit on lesser known Messianic prophecies which are clearly fulfilled in Jesus. For example of point 1 the fact the Jews have no priests and offer no sacrifice, yet this is the foundation of biblical religion. They will respond to this in two ways, they will attack this biblical truth by attempting to set certain scriptures which denigrate sacrifices and which especially exalt repentance against the scriptures which require sacrifice. Answer by pointing out how men always offered sacrifice to God even before Abraham, as Cain and Abel did. Explain the failure of their interpretation of the other scriptures, for example how the blood of goats and calves was indeed worth little, the only fit offering was that of the Son of God Himself. The other attack they make is to boldly dismiss the necessity of sacrifice out of hand by boldly asserting that sin offerings were only for unintentional sins, this particular response can be cut down with the mere citation of Leviticus 16, but if they persist you should exegete that scripture to keep them from twisting it. An example of point 2 is how scripture repeatedly prophesied that He would convert the gentiles e.g. Micah 4. This is a particularly good argument for us gentiles, because we can cite the example of our ancestors who once worshipped false gods whom we have long since forgotten. There have been many false messiahs and the Jews will agree with this, they never did anything like fulfill this prophecy, so how can Jesus be a false Messiah when through Him I now worship the Lord and not Wodanaz, whom my ancestors have forgotten for a thousand and a half years? The Jews will assume, assert and act like their religion is that of the Old Testament, and Christianity is something else. You must not let them do this. They splintered off from the truth and apostatized into a false religion, they have no right to any of the scriptures which are properly inherited by ourselves, God's covenant people. You must reprove and correct their presumption that they stand in the tradition of Moses even though it will bring insults and mockery at the least. Do not be ashamed or afraid to assert the authority and legitimacy of the New Testament revelation, or its consistency with Old Testament revelation, or the sharp inconsistency of the Talmud with the Old Testament. But you also should not unnecessarily offend them; be willing to write G-d instead of God, call the Old Testament the Tanakh, and absolutely do not use the divine name unless you truly have no alternative. Do not go out of your way to offend them, the gospel is offensive enough.
>>17577 They hate Jesus and they think they are above God.
I saw le happy merchant and thought this was gonna be bait but it was actually really informative and interesting. The tactics here are actually quite effective even outside of Jew V Christian debate, just adapt them to the circumstance.
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The problem with the world and humanity is not "evil" races but sin. Getting rid of Jews won't erase evil. Why put your faith in some white races that can be defeated easily by race mixing, you should put your faith in God. I'm not saying to go the opposite extreme and promote worldly political correctness or idolize tolerance.
>>17577 > I told you that you would die in your sins, for you will die in your sins unless you believe that I am he. John 8:24 Could Jesus be referencing the coming destruction of the temple in this verse? Since once the temple was destroyed the Jews literally had no place to atone for sins except through Christ.
>>17602 No, see Hebrews 10. All who die without faith in the Lord Jesus die in their sins regardless of who or when they die. The sacrifices failed to take away sins because only the sacrifice of Christ was sufficient to do that, they only brought forgiveness inasmuch as they foreshadowed the coming of the perfect sacrifice of Jesus and thus those who drew near were saved by their faith in the perfect sacrifice which they knew must have been coming.
>>17604 But that no longer applies to the modern Jewish sacrifices doesn't it?
>>17607 There are no modern Jewish sacrifices.
>>17608 >he doesn't know
>>17577 >Isaiah 53 is generally not the best place to start, not because it is a weak point for us or that it does not actually point to Jesus What? Who else does it point to then? I cant imagine any other biblical figure that fits in the servant songs more perfectly
>>17647 Didnt meant to sage
>>17648 You didn't sage though.
>>17604 So they only made sense as the foreshadow of the final sacrifice of Christ and the Pharisees rejection of Christ's ministry and passion, atonement, death, and resurrection means denying the eternal and substantial intent of God underscoring their religion?
By the Council of Basel, you have to be designated by a Bishop before you preach to the Jews. The laity is to the stay away from Jews, Pagans and heretics who would corrupt their faith. Consider that Good King Charles I was beheaded by the Protestants who let the Jews back into England that King Charles had driven out. Cromwell was bought and paid for by his Jewish lords. The results are that Protestant Freemasons will corrupt the faith. yes, I'm looking at their Marian Apparitions.
>>17598 >Getting rid of Jews won't erase evil. Christ said they were the synagogue of Satan and they murdered Christ with their false witness, forcing Pontius Pilate to sacrifice an innocent Jesus in which he could find no fault. Jews who accepted Christ are called "Christians". I'm not saying that we should get rid of Jews, I'm pointing out that Christ, Church Tradition (e.g. Saint John Chrysotom) and the Council of Basel said keep them separate from the faithful. Yes, I know, Jews living among their own is like separating the wolves from the sheep.
>>18807 Rome has no authority.
Bump
There are 2 interesting websites I've heard of, though you should be careful with both of them. One is called https://judaism.is/ - it's a "anti-semitic" website directed to gentiles run by a tradcath. Much of it probably isn't what you're looking for but there are 2 articles relevant here: - How the "Torah" of Judaism isn't the Pentateuch of Christianity: https://judaism.is/torah.html - Pagan influences in Judaism: https://judaism.is/paganism.html The other website is called https://daatemet.org.il/en/ - it's actually an Israeli website run by some ex-Rabbis. I'm prettu sure they're atheists so be careful when they talk about the Old Testament, but they mostly want to expose the Rabbis. - On Jewish supremacism: https://daatemet.org.il/en/torah-science-ethics/religion-ethics/the-jewish-nation-is-the-people-chosen-to-fulfill-the-purpose-of-creation/ - The Rabbis make the Biblical prophets out to be false prophets: https://daatemet.org.il/en/torah-science-ethics/mitzvahs/prophecy/ - Rabbis vs the prophet Ezekiel: https://daatemet.org.il/en/torah-talmud/talmud-issues/tractate-shabbat/the-prophet-ezekiel-contradicts-the-words-of-the-torah/
>>18822 clearly, only anon has authority, so we can just disregard that Christ made the head of His Church Simon Peter. I've gotten so I've become blue in the fingers typing scripture but protestants ignore it out of hand; they have to or they couldn't be protestants. I shouldn't even mention it, as it provokes you to say things that merit a deeper part of hell.
>>18822 Anonymous has no authority. I believe in the authority of the Father, the Son and the holy spirit.
>>20662 Do you believe that your parents were given authority over you by God?
>>18808 Christ said they were the synagogue of Satan because they turned the judaism into a money worshipping hole, after Rome destroyed their Temple their satan worship stopped. So the synagogue of Satan switched with the Islam, they worship the Devil and as such they're the ones we should evangelize while jews live and die in their sin
>>20655 >>20668 Please ignore this individual. They are a notorious troll on this board who try to steer every thread into a Protestant vs. Catholic slap fight.
>>23167 What do you make of the commandment "Honor thy father and mother"? What about Malachi 1:6 6 The son honoureth the father, and the servant his master: if then I be a father, where is my honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the Lord of hosts. Honor seems to mean "obey" as well as not be critical of them. if you feel an anon posted something in error, it is the Christian way to correct them.
A review of the book Rabbinic Judaism Debunked the third book in a series written by two Christian converts from Judaism. https://yewtu.be/watch?v=0gE3YIYsM90 This video show the 2nd Temple liturgical continuity that is found within the early church and developed within Eastern Orthodoxy. It compares and contrasts continuity with Rabbinic Judaism and Islam. Regardless of denomination this video is exceptional. https://yewtu.be/watch?v=jkmh68urI6A This next one is by Jeem, he is a Orthodox apologetics channel with some really good videos on Christianity vs Judaism and Islam, and I didn't want to just list almost his whole channel so I picked one and linked his channel. This one is about the defense of Orthodox Christianity as the true continuity of Biblical worship vs Rabbinic Judaism. https://yewtu.be/watch?v=MzsHEq8KwQI His channel https://www.youtube.com/@Jeemapologetics Even if one's denomination is not Orthodox these videos should still provide value to those wanting to counter Rabbinic claims.
Excellent resources ITT Anons, thanks kindly. I also appreciate the latest bump. ATM several of these topics regarding true Biblical, geneological descendants of Abraham is a current hot topic for me, so thanks. Cheers! :)
>>25880 Recently I have had an interest in the 2nd Temple period with the various sects along with the development of the "Oral Law." There are a lot of books on the subject I need to read through and I will attempt to update this thread with what I find useful for others to read and use. God Bless.
>>25882 Thanks! As you seem well-aware, this is a complex topic Biblically. Any resources that can help to tease out the truth from the falsehood is much appreciated.
Warning: Heresy.
>>25935 This is kind of over the top for them. Probably to contain and convince the boomer audience to play no attention to the protests behind the curtain. Pretty sure it won't help much. Even Ben Shapiro is being portrayed as unhinged with his attack on Candice Owens for simply posting scripture verses.
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>>25937 >the protests behind the curtain Jews protesting other Jews?
>>17598 >>18808 I don't concern myself with Jews. I might argue with them, but I've never tried to convert people generally. I'm not an evangelical. They are content with the sin they have. So, it's not exactly a new precedent for the likes of even Jesus to not try to interrupt them in it most of the time. What I want to know, from a position of loving whitey and the things that white men do, is; why did God make us seemingly more capable of virtue than most? It's not to say that you'll never find white people acting in the same way that South American cartel gangs do, but that it's less likely than the base rate... Why make us this way if before God all those regardless of our melanin are going to stand as equal? Are we to be held to a harsher account when we come up short? What is it all for?
>>25938 Some Boomers are waking up to the protests and ripping off the marionette strings of their Zionist puppet masters.
>>25942 How many are we talking? Most are just watching Lefty liberal news media, which has for a while now cultivated it's progressive-stack love for Palestine and hatred for Israel. I'm convinced they'll go to their graves in stupidity en masse.
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I just started reading this book, as I just finished one of the author's shorter works entitled The Transformation of Israelite Religion to Rabbinic Judaism. I thought the previous work was okay but having only touched the first chapter for this one, I have a feeling this book might have an agenda despite the author, a Rabbinic Jew, stating the work was neither polemic nor apologetic. I don't always want to read books strictly from a Christian perspective on matters but neither do I want to read ones that attempt to misrepresent our positions. The very first chapter is entitled The Replacement of Israel and starts of questioning if Paul's theology has been interpreted correctly as well as bringing up Supercessionalism or Replacement Theology. My guess is the author will attempt to slide the discussion into a direction where the "original true Christians" were the Nazarenes or the Ebionites, because he subtly has mentioned already that the gentiles highjacked the early Church. However, I will attempt to finish reading this 547-page work, unless of the course the author really goes off the rails.
>>25980 In the 2nd Century BC there was a mystical movement among some populations of Near Eastern Jews called Essene Judaism. It was an attempt to reboot their dour and hateful creed and center it on the concepts of mercy and forgiveness for fellow members of the tribe. They also really hated race-mixing and mixed marriages. Still with us? Christianity is mediocre fanfiction of Essene Judaism, with all that inconvenient stuff about blood heritage ripped out and egalitarianism stuffed clumsily into the enormous hole that left. That "there is neither Jew nor Greek" stuff would NOT have flown with the Essenes, but by the 1st Century they were dying out and already being forgotten. Christianity may well have been created as a Roman psyop to use against groups like the Maccabees, to wear down their resolve to fight against foreign occupiers. The outrageous, hilarious, boot-licking flattery of Pontius Pilate in the Gospels points to this. The records the Romans kept show him very much not to have been the kind of man to "wash his hands" of rabblerousers who denied the divinity of Caesar, or to let a mob of the local rabble browbeat him into doing anything whatsoever. The eminently reasonable, logical, and likable Pilate of the Gospels is a fictional character; the real Pilate was sacked on the orders of the Senate for his megalomania, zeal, cruelty, bloodlust, and love of public spectacles of torture. The methods he employed against the Maccabees were so extreme that they were deeply offensive to people who thought nothing of throwing dissidents and troublemakers to the lions for the entertainment of a cheering crowd. Managing to awaken moral outrage in Rome in the 1st Century took a great deal of work and could be viewed as a perverse sort of accomplishment. Sort of like Oskar Dirlewanger.
>>25981 Lol no. Read a few thousands book Anon. :^)
>>17577 >The Jews will assume, assert and act like their religion is that of the Old Testament, and Christianity is something else. You must not let them do this. They splintered off from the truth and apostatized into a false religion, they have no right to any of the scriptures which are properly inherited by ourselves, God's covenant people. Sad how many Christians are unaware of this. Let's not pretend the destruction of the Temple 40 years, that is, one generation, after the death and resurrection of Jesus was a mere coincidence. >>18807 I'm not sure that still applies, anon. Lumen Gentium encourages us to evangelize all peoples. “Woe to me, if I do not preach the Gospel.” >>23167 Yeah, that's reasonable. This is a good thread and should not be derailed. As a Catholic, it pains me to see other fellow Caths be this toxic and un-christian. >>25980 The author's a Jewish rabbi, I wouldn't expect him to be unbiased.
>>25984 >The author's a Jewish rabbi, I wouldn't expect him to be unbiased. His previous work that I had read I found to be halfway decent as he didn't attempt to make the case that Rabbinic Judaism was the way the Israelites have always worshiped as other Rabbis have made. But rather he agreed more with the scholarly consensus that there were multiple "Judaisms" present at the 2nd Temple, and the Oral Law was gradually developed over time corresponding with the rise of the scribal class after the Babylonian exile. So, I attempted to give him the benefit of the doubt for this one, but at the very least it is always good to know your opponent's positions.
Concurrently with Forgotten Origins, I am reading Why Jews Don't Believe in Jesus by Eitan Bar a Messianic Jew. Eitan Bar beings up something interesting in the Talmud early on that I found particularly fascinating. In Yoma 39b, the Rabbis record mysterious happenings in the temple 40 years prior to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, so around the time of the Crucifixion. The temple doors kept opening on their own, the western most candle kept buring out, and the strip of crimson wool around the goat for Azazel would not turn white. Basically they knew the presence of God was somehow disturbed. https://www.sefaria.org/Yoma.39b.5
>>25993 Someone else pointed that out to me years ago - it's amazing! There was a miracle the priests had come to expect: on the Day of Atonement, they would tie a crimson thread around the goat's horns, and it would miraculously turn white. They took this as a sign that God had accepted their sacrifice and forgiven their sins. >"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." Isaiah 1:18 KJV However, the talmud says for all of the last 40 years before the Temple was destroyed (in 70 A.D.), this miracle did not happen. 40 years earlier would've been 30 A.D. Obviously the sacrifices ceased with the destruction of the Temple. I suppose it depends on exactly what year Jesus was born, but the timeframe seems too close for this to be a coincidence. After 30 A.D., God never again provided the Jews with the expected miracle showing that he had forgiven their sins on the Day of Atonement. tl;dr: talmud says God quit accepting Jewish animal sacrifices once Jesus died and rose again.
>>25953 They don't actually care the least bit about Palestine. It's part of their divide and conquer tactics, same with the whole "two party system".
>>25981 >In the 2nd Century BC there was a mystical movement among some populations of Near Eastern Jews called Essene Judaism. It was an attempt to reboot their dour and hateful creed and center it on the concepts of mercy and forgiveness for fellow members of the tribe. They also really hated race-mixing and mixed marriages. I thought that was the Maccabeeans >Still with (((us)))? Depends, Judah >Christianity is mediocre fanfiction of Essene Judaism Aaaaand you lost me. Jesus fulfilled all 400+ prophesies about the Messiah, prove each of those prophecies weren't about Him, then I'll fall for your bait, JIDF :3
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>>25993 BASED Eitan Bar >The Talmud It's amazing that in the same book that has heinous and ridiculously childish play-ground insult-level attacks against Jesus, have some actual truth, shows that God's light shines in even the darkest places.
>>25995 >tl;dr: talmud says God quit accepting Jewish animal sacrifices once Jesus died and rose again. Pretty much Also, according to my knowledge, Jesus may have been born in 3 BC, so that would explain it (in my opinion)

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